Argue with Adrenochrome Dreams about the benefits of keeping a child's corpse on life support

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

I've been lurking since the Kevin Gibes thread was new. I joined because I have identified the reddit cat killer and want to expose her, but that will be a lengthy post, and have got distracted by other shenanigans before I get round to it.

Enforced desecration & breakdown of a child's corpse while the family watches and films, doesn't bother you huh?

No because he's not actually dead, he's in limbo. And if he was dead, I don't give a shit about carcasses, it's just flesh. If people receive comfort from keeping meat warm, that's up to them.

 

[ChaChaHeels:BlackOnes]

Quite certain it was explained in detail earlier in the thread.

Are you referring to this post?

I know she has GFM dollar now but she will potentially lose a LOT of benefits.
My guess is
Standard child benefit
Maintenance from Dad
Archie has an SEN statement so he probably gets DLA (disability living allowance).
If Archie gets DLA Hollie will get Carer’s Allowance.
She’ll be allowed income support to top up carers and won’t be made to jobseek for benefits.
She’’ll get universal credit to pay rent
And possibly free council tax, depending on Southend council’s policy.

THIS POST?

Quite certain it was explained in detail earlier in the thread

It’s MY post.


So when I say it costs more per day to keep Archie in PICU than it does to keep Hollie on benefits for a month, that is exactly what I’m basing it on.
DLA is only worth £300 odd quid a month, it’s costing 8 times that much every day Archie is in hospital PLUS whatever benefits Hollie is on.

Christ on a cracker, are you brain dead too?

The medical professionals all say he isn't suffering, so what's the problem?

Holy fucking shit balls, do you really think a loss of all your faculties, dignity and purpose is ‘not a problem’ as long as you aren’t in pain? The medical professionals also say it’s wrong to continue to keep him artificially ‘alive’ via a machine - why are you cherry picking the bit that’s useful to your argument and ignoring the rest of their professional judgement?

Archie’ is now an inanimate prop in his mum’s live streaming social media career - I think that’s a problem. Especially if it means further delaying the now necessary police investigation.

 

[Roccosmoderndeath1]

The medical professionals all say he isn't suffering, so what's the problem?

The problem is that the boy is fucking dead, and there is zero reason to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars* and thousands of Healthcare worker hours pumping drugs into a dead body to keep its heart pumping. It is grotesque to expect Healthcare workers and the NHS to keep dead people alive indefinitely just for feelings. His brain stem is dead. It is only by the marvel of model medicine that is heart is pumping, which is one organ that can work on its own. You know what a sump pump is? That is what Archie is right now. These things should be codified and decided, and reviewed by doctors and an ethics board. Which is has, thoroughly.

What is wrong with it, is this kind of shit is only going to get worse as medical technology gets better. If you would like to start the world's first hospital for dead folks enjoy yourself. The rest of us will be experiencing reality.

*has to be way more than that figure posted earlier btw, 140k euro wouldn't even come close to covering the staff that have had to care for him for 3 months

 

[Any Fucker]

I wasn't just talking about you, but others on this thread many of whom self-identified working class.

Well if a working class person becomes rich, they are indeed now middle class. Not accepting them as such is surely just snobbery.

There are jobless criminals among all classes, but only the working class ones get identified as such. The middle and upper classes are better at blending in. If a person is a layabout criminal, that doesn't affect their social class, it's separate.

Now fuck off.

Getting rich doesn't change the class you were born into. There are upper class folk who are skint (see the fucking fulfords) but that doesn't make them working class. Working class can make a ton but remain working class.....

Middle class are usually professionals with education, not children of miners from barnsley who made money flogging herbalife and their ass.

But yeah enough derailing. Off you fuck

 

[Blanche]

I can say what I like, cope and seethe. I'm amused by this "more working class than thou" bullshit but I'm not going to be powerleveling.

Piss off, newfag

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

Holy fucking shit balls, do you really think a loss of all your faculties, dignity and purpose is ‘not a problem’ as long as you aren’t in pain? The medical professionals also say it’s wrong to continue to keep him artificially ‘alive’ via a machine - why are you cherry picking the bit that’s useful to your argument and ignoring the rest of their professional judgement?

Archie’ is now an inanimate prop in his mum’s live streaming social media career - I think that’s a problem. Especially if it means further delaying the now necessary police investigation.

Yeah I don't think it's a problem in itself. Archie is not present to know any of this.

I wasn't cherry picking, the other stuff isn't relevant to my point. If he's not actually suffering then it's a case of personal beliefs about right and wrong based on icky feelings about corpses.

I don't know whether Archie "should" be sent to meet his maker, I'm ambivalent and this doesn't matter because the opinions of all of us online spectators, including mine, are irrelevant. Only doctors, lawyers and his family can contribute to what "should" happen.

I find it all very interesting legally and philosophically, and feel sorry for Archie's family. I feel sad for the loss of Archie's life but he's not here any more.

Just so you know my stance. I'm not even against a lot of what is on here, I just am a non-believer in some things. Like the performative concern about a warm carcass. But apparently only certain opinions are allowed on this sheep thread.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

No because he's not actually dead, he's in limbo. And if he was dead, I don't give a shit about carcasses, it's just flesh. If people receive comfort from keeping meat warm, that's up to them.

Okay, let's say for the sake of argument, Archie is not actually dead, and by some miracle, wakes up.

He's still brain damaged to the point where has no quality of life.

At best, he would be a drooling tard incapable of anything besides spastic movements, and at worst, he's just Terri Schiavo. Hell, if you wanna go even farther, the absolute worst-case scenario is that he gets Locked-in syndrome and is stuck aware in a husk of body he can't even control.

He would never be able to do anything. He wouldn't be able to talk. He wouldn't be able to play. He couldn't hang out with his friends. He couldn't go to school. He couldn't draw, or read, or play sports, or go to parties, or dances, or any of that.

Simply put, he wouldn't be able to enjoy anything anymore.

Everyone keeps talking about what the parents want, and shit, but no one seems to be asking what Archie would want.

Would he want to be like this?

To be nothing more than a vegetable raised by his shitty mom? To never be able to do anything he ever liked again? To never talk, or laugh, or play, or just fucking be a kid? To be stuck in a brain-damaged, broken-down body for the rest of his life? To never grow up, get married, get a job, have a family, and live life? To know that all the old joys he used to know, and love are things he's never going to experience again?

The answer is no. Absolutely not, and that's why the possibility of his brain not entirely being fucked doesn't even matter because in the end, Archie would still be suffering, and even more so.

 

[ChaChaHeels:BlackOnes]

£140,000 is less than I thought, they will be spending far more than that on legal fees. It's a drop in the ocean compared to all the fat bastards, smokers and drinkers wasting resources.

That 140,000 is without 6 years of inflation, and it doesn’t include the 115 days Archie has already been in hospital.

At £2178 per day that 115 is £250, 470.

So the 6 months you are arguing for comes out at:

And that’s at 2015 prices and doesn’t include the initial ambulance and police at the scene costs nor critical care transfer from Southend to London, which was presumably via helicopter.

If we look at the same number of days with the highest level of critical care on the published table it’s 179 x £5462

almost a million quid AT 2015 PRICES.

I stopped caring about wasting NHS money a long time

Hollie wanted to wait 6 months for a miracle. That's only another two months and 5 days. It would have saved the NHS a lot in legal fees

How are you squaring that circle, my friend?

 

[Catmannjew]

I don't know whether Archie "should" be sent to meet his maker, I'm ambivalent and this doesn't matter because the opinions of all of us online spectators, including mine, are irrelevant. Only doctors, lawyers and his family can contribute to what "should" happen.

I hate to tell you, but Archie already made that decision. He is dead, he is not waking up, it is a waste of space and hurting others now.

 

[Fareal]

Yeah I don't think it's a problem in itself. Archie is not present to know any of this.

I wasn't cherry picking, the other stuff isn't relevant to my point. If he's not actually suffering then it's a case of personal beliefs about right and wrong based on icky feelings about corpses.

I don't know whether Archie "should" be sent to meet his maker, I'm ambivalent and this doesn't matter because the opinions of all of us online spectators, including mine, are irrelevant. Only doctors, lawyers and his family can contribute to what "should" happen.

I find it all very interesting legally and philosophically, and feel sorry for Archie's family. I feel sad for the loss of Archie's life but he's not here any more.

Just so you know my stance. I'm not even against a lot of what is on here, I just am a non-believer in some things. Like the performative concern about a warm carcass. But apparently only certain opinions are allowed on this sheep thread.

Alright, thought experiment. You accept, as far as I understand, that Archie is not capable of feeling pain and is no longer possessed of a consciousness to be aware of what is happening to his body.

If it really doesn’t matter what happens to Archie’s body, as long as it makes someone else feel better, then why not offer all the local paedos a free go on him so that they don’t inflict rape on a kid who is actually all there and aware of being hurt and abused? Sort of like organ donation, but with a child‘s arsehole?

The reason you find that suggestion completely and utterly abhorrent is, if you sit with it for a bit, the reason it does actually matter what happens to Archie’s mortal remains now. There might not be a little boy in there any more, but there was a little boy in there. And his body deserves to be treated with the respect due to a person, and not just used as a means to an end. Even to make his mother feel better. The law doesn’t allow her to have him embalmed and stuffed and sat in her front room to make her feel better, either. We live in a society, for fucks sake. We have collective norms. What she is doing offends our collective norms.

 

[oldclocknewclock]

Alright, thought experiment. You accept, as far as I understand, that Archie is not capable of feeling pain and is no longer possessed of a consciousness to be aware of what is happening to his body.

If it really doesn’t matter what happens to Archie’s body, as long as it makes someone else feel better, then why not offer all the local paedos a free go on him so that they don’t inflict rape on a kid who is actually all there and aware of being hurt and abused? Sort of like organ donation, but with a child‘s arsehole?

The reason you find that suggestion completely and utterly abhorrent is, if you sit with it for a bit, the reason it does actually matter what happens to Archie’s mortal remains now. There might not be a little boy in there any more, but there was a little boy in there. And his body deserves to be treated with the respect due to a person, and not just used as a means to an end. Even to make his mother feel better. The law doesn’t allow her to have him embalmed and stuffed and sat in her front room to make her feel better, either. We live in a society, for fucks sake. We have collective norms. What she is doing offends our collective norms.

Just so you know, acts of necrophilia are also illegal.

Sexual Offences Act 2003

An Act to make new provision about sexual offences, their prevention and the protection of children from harm from other sexual acts, and for connected purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Shitposting boogeyman]

No qualia no rights.. A corpse is a inanimate object your harming nothing if you pull the plug.

 

[Eddie Gluskin]

The medical professionals all say he isn't suffering, so what's the problem?

You refuse to look with your eyes niggerchattle. Perhaps you and Archie share the same amount of brain activity.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

Guten tag and thank you dear mod for my pink triangle, I am honoured and feel very special.

Alright, thought experiment. You accept, as far as I understand, that Archie is not capable of feeling pain and is no longer possessed of a consciousness to be aware of what is happening to his body.

If it really doesn’t matter what happens to Archie’s body, as long as it makes someone else feel better, then why not offer all the local paedos a free go on him so that they don’t inflict rape on a kid who is actually all there and aware of being hurt and abused? Sort of like organ donation, but with a child‘s arsehole?

The reason you find that suggestion completely and utterly abhorrent is, if you sit with it for a bit, the reason it does actually matter what happens to Archie’s mortal remains now. There might not be a little boy in there any more, but there was a little boy in there. And his body deserves to be treated with the respect due to a person, and not just used as a means to an end. Even to make his mother feel better. The law doesn’t allow her to have him embalmed and stuffed and sat in her front room to make her feel better, either. We live in a society, for fucks sake. We have collective norms. What she is doing offends our collective norms.

Sorry to disappoint you but there are no non-paedophiles on this earth who would accept the fucking a child, warm or cold. Kill yourself.

To the individuals who thought the notion of raping Archie was a brilliant point to make: it doesn't matter that necrophiles don't hurt their victims, it matters because they are aberrations who have something severely wrong with their minds and are a danger to all society. Someone that deranged is a danger to live humans and probably animals. They are so abnormal they cannot be allowed to be free.

Aside from potential danger to society, the main damage from the behaviour of necrophiles are their secondary victims - the families. To know their relative's corpse was masturbated into.

This does not compare with the ordinary treatment of someone on life support. There is nothing out of the ordinary about his care except the futility.

No qualia no rights.. A corpse is a inanimate object your harming nothing if you pull the plug.

Correct. Nor if you keep it pumping.

You refuse to look with your eyes niggerchattle. Perhaps you and Archie share the same amount of brain activity.

My head is warm, thank you for your concern x

 

[Shitposting boogeyman]

Correct. Nor if you keep it pumping.

This corpse is talking up valuable space and equipment that could be used to help people who have a chance of recovery.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

I hate to tell you, but Archie already made that decision. He is dead, he is not waking up, it is a waste of space and hurting others now.

I agree for most, but I don't think his presence is hurting others, except maybe Hollie's A-logs.

This corpse is talking up valuable space and equipment that could be used to help people who have a chance of recovery.

Undeniably, but this is "could be used" - it's not causing problems yet. But could in the future if they run out of space/equipment/staff/meds.

Barring a nearby mass disaster, they are likely to have a fair bit of warning as to when equipment runs low, so I don't think this matters more than any of the other wastes of space draining the NHS, of which there are millions of examples.

 

[Jaded Optimist]

Lol, threadbanned

 

[Fareal]

Guten tag and thank you dear mod for my pink triangle, I am honoured and feel very special.


Sorry to disappoint you but there are no non-paedophiles on this earth who would accept the fucking a child, warm or cold. Kill yourself.

To the individuals who thought the notion of raping Archie was a brilliant point to make: it doesn't matter that necrophiles don't hurt their victims, it matters because they are aberrations who have something severely wrong with their minds and are a danger to all society. Someone that deranged is a danger to live humans and probably animals. They are so abnormal they cannot be allowed to be free.

Aside from potential danger to society, the main damage from the behaviour of necrophiles are their secondary victims - the families. To know their relative's corpse was masturbated into.

This does not compare with the ordinary treatment of someone on life support. There is nothing out of the ordinary about his care except the futility.

If you think what’s happening to Archie right now isn’t harmful to his family and friends, I am not sure you quite understand what is happening here. With the best will in the world, ICU care is not gently mopping fevered brows. It is a range of invasive and (in those patients who aren’t brain stem dead) painful procedures to force a body to stay alive. Every dignity that can be given to the patient is given to them. But not much is possible.

ICU is not a high tech morgue. It does not exist to delay the terrible, terrible moment when someone’s baby is lowered into the earth. It is there to try and snatch back from the brink those kids who can be snatched back. Archie is not one of those kids.

And that bed is needed. PICU - in fact all ICU care - is modelled as a 100% capacity facility. That means every ICU bed in Britain is in use at all times. If someone who is barely clinging to life needs to come in immediately, anyone who can be stepped down to enhanced HDU will be. As soon as Archie’s body is removed tomorrow, the room will be immediately disinfected and a new kid will be brought in. I promise you, someone needs that bed.

 

[Catmannjew]

I agree for most, but I don't think his presence is hurting others, except maybe Hollie's A-logs.

It is hurting the staff and other patients. It is hurting the nurses who everyday have to go into an already stressful environment and then deal with this case.

It is hurting his family, Archie's father has fallen I'll in the last week. And as much as everyone dislikes Hollie, imagine watching your son turn into a rotting corpse. She needs some closer. If you can't s me the amount of people this hurts, then you need a vent because you are braindead.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

Of course this came from the Hollie Dance thread.

Another momposting thread, another influx of insane newbies with no pfps arguing about insipid nonsense.

Meanwhile real scholars debate whether you should kill children before they're on life support to keep them on their toes and separate the strong from the weak.