Arguments or Evidence to Convince Normies/Leftists That Troons Are Harmful to Society

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

I show them a picture of Muscato and some of his tweets and explain that you can lose your job if you refer to him as a "he."

 

[quaawaa]

Everything you need can be found at these two links:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/srs-and-grs-surgeons-and-associated-horrors.76786

https://reddit.com/r/TransBreastTimelines

Normies have no idea what the results of cross-sex hormone treatment or "gender affirming" surgeries actually are. They don't really think about what transsexualism actually entails because troons are rare in real life. They therefore have the impression that the treatments work and turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man. Show them what the actual results are and they'll agree that its mutilation/abuse, and if they aren't horrified, then no article or argument will ever convince them.

 

[doodoocaca]

It started dumb and only got dumber. It all started from the failure of another ideology, and has continued the trend of trying to do the impossible and dying in a supernova of screeching and pissed pant.

The genesis of this was the abortive attempt to "free" people from the expectations and perceptions that go from being identified as a member of a particular sex. That campaign clearly failed. While they had a point that we should get rid of bullshit expectations and perceptions, to throw it all out is also pretty stupid, but that's neither here nor there. Indeed, the response to our inability to free people from gender entirely was to double down but add extra bullshit and also bleed, shit, and whatever the verb for pus is.

From an amhole-cum-cloaca. Except now they can't cum.

At best, on its face, gender shit is a way for individuals to seek treatment they believe would prefer, that of the other sex. This is predicated on "being born the wrong sex," they claim. There's also the belief that you can achieve this with hormones and plastic surgery.

In practice it's mostly a way to run from problems and avoid accountability because of deference and preferential treatment given to troons so that normal people look better because the Zeit we're in is fucking retarded. Also SRS/GRS does not actually accomplish what they want it to, so they add in the double-think bullshit where you pretend someone passes or looks good but really doesn't, so they get superficial back pats, but then are never dated and generally avoided for being gross. Also they're unstable and get people canceled so they're worshiped pariahs.

In conclusion it's bullshit.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

You could try bringing up other identity disorders, like Bodily Integrity Identity Disorder, or transablism. Otherkin, AKA transspecies.

Point out how many of them were treated, and still are, by having the patient snap out of it rather than affirm them.

---

For those who lean libertarian or classical liberal, the fact that transgenderism is antithetical to the concept of freedom or liberty.

Transgenderism is a mental illness that entails severe anguish over one's biological sex, the fact that they cannot change it. Even those who claim to not be offended by misgendering secretly seethe, deep down, over the fact that they will never be a true and honest member of the opposite sex, over anyone or anything that reminds them of this fact.

So naturally, they lash out at anyone who does ANYTHING to invalidate their gender identity, and do everything possible to lobby governments or even corporations to restrict peoples' freedom in order to prevent this from happening.

Banning people from social media for refusing to play pretend with people, or even outright arresting them.

Taking kids away from parents if the parents refuse to troon them out rather than wait until they're old enough to know better.

Telling lesbians or straight men that they're homophobic if they don't suck the girldick or stick their penis inside of the disease-ridden stinkditch.

Labeling parents as "terrorists" if they disapprove of LGBTQP slop being taught at schools, like the one father who reacted with natural to the Loudon County (Virginia) school district covering up the rape of his daughter, or Murray (Utah) school district harassing a woman for protesting against pride shit, even sending her pride flags her way and demanding she stake them in her own front lawn.

Lengthening the prison sentences of women who get raped in prison by men, for the crime of "misgendering" their assailant.

For all of this, it's quite clear that it's far less tyrannical to force a very tiny minority of the population to snap out of it and accept the sex they were born with, than force the rest of the population to not make them feel sad.

Finally, if you're willing to push it even further, the issue of informed consent. With all of the SRS and HRT horrors, there's really no way in hell that the consent to any of that was "informed." Those that would push on anyway regardless are not even sane enough to consent in the first place. Children cannot consent, but neither can adults.

The more conscientious liberals and libertarians argue that the freedom to choose, or to sign a contract, is meaningless without that consent. Transgender "medicine" violates the Non Aggression Principle

 

[DoNotFeedTheSneed]

Many of the more vapid internet leftists (hasan types, the ones who'd rather have a shouting match than a rational debate) are obsessed with going after and bullying the "safe" target, I.E the incel. Explaining the incel to troon pipeline and how they take advantage of women's spaces to get their "entitled" sex is potentially a good way to peak 'em.

 

[Ma'am I Am]

A trick I found in peaking people is to relate it to something about their identity or what they care about.

For example, when peaking members of the black community, I make sure to mention the racism of the trans community, specifically how many TIMs think that because black women are considered women, then a white man can be considered a woman. I haven't met a single black woman who saw the racism of the trans community and then supported them afterwards.

Another example for the gay community would be mentioning that trans people try to coerce and force themselves on them. This tactic isn't a guarantee, as many gay people (particularly gay men) think this isn't a problem. This tactic tends to work better with lesbians. However, it's still worth a shot because many lesbians and gay men either don't care about the T or think they're annoying.

For regular lefty women, I often say "I think it's awfully convenient that in a time where women's reproductive rights are being restricted, we now don't know what a woman is". Alternatively, mention how rapists are using the Self-ID laws to get access to female prisoners and rape them. Some women have a knee-jerk negative reaction when I say this, but with other women, I can see them begin to realize things about the trans community even if they don't say it.

I know not many people here are lefties or like the left, but I think peaking lefties is very important because then that would make the T lose their only supporters. It will be difficult to do as most lefties just parrot anything they're told to say, but it's still important to slowly plant the seeds of doubt in their brains in regards to the trans community. The best thing you can do to get people (especially lefties) to peak is to get them to think.

 

[Cool Dog Returns]

Words words words...

I dont bother, I'm just letting this snowball reach relativistic speeds and crash into everything, that new doc on twatter about troons is hitting every normalfag who been ignoring this shit for years like a brick to the fucking face, they are so fucking disgusted that its beyond redpilled, its redsuppositoried at this point, and that nigga musk just shoved it up their asses

When this shit finally explodes the overton window its gonna shift so hard to the right adolf is gonna get a bit nervous, mark my fucking words

 

[Point and Laugh]

Although I don’t really bother much anymore because troons are doing a good job peaking, it’s worth mentioning that the Nordic countries that were at the forefront of the trans hormone and surgical interventions are completely reversing course. These are not organizations that can be called evil fascist TERF organizations, and they are saying that there is no evidence this is beneficial and in fact, are more concerned that children are being harmed. There’s articles about this all over KF.

 

[Troon_Patrol]

I state the fact that gay men and lesbian women often dislike troons for many many valid reasons. When people hear they can be both supportive of LGB people and dislike trannys they tend to want to know more. The troons main game is "I'm so oppressed and vulnerable"! When you show them videos of "trans women" physically battering teenage girls, they rethink the trans thing real quick. I explain to them lesbians are being pressured into sleeping with people with fully functional penis's. Women and children being sexually assaulted in restrooms and other "safe spaces" designated women only is a very important fact if you're trying to get someone to see the truth about transgenderism. The troon's game is based on perpetual victim-hood, when you show people the raw facts about how often they are in fact the perpetrator in violence or sexual assault they see the light.

 

[GloriousScarf]

they think that trans rights is just gay rights 2.0. Transgenders are just another persecuted minority that they need to support in order to create a more tolerant, inclusive world.

In an incredulous tone: "So you think convicted biological male rapists should be placed in women's prisons?"

Then watch them turn into Mark Wahlburg from The Happening. Whaaaaatt nooooooo.

The rapists in women's prisons is one of the completely indefensible positions the TRAs hold, only the most terminally brain rotted would support such a thing.

 

[TruffleSpark]

I really don't know other than you have to do it without sounding crazy. Most people don't know about AGP, the incel to troon pipeline, or just how normalised misogyny is in trans circles (e.g. the cotton ceiling). The problem is that when you bring it up it can sound made up or like you're cherrypicking something that is very rare. So I don't think you can lead with "they're all freakish degenerates", at best you have to ease into that.

 

[AWizard]

Are most of you middle class/upper-middle class? Down here with all the other rats in the rat race, most people rightly or wrongly have qualms about them.

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

Most pro troon normies I've met have sympathy based on the idea that troons are suffering a mental illness and that transitioning helps them as a treatment. I don't really engage them myself bc it seems like a waste of time, but if I did, I'd point out that no other mental health issue where a person has problems with accepting their body and identity is treated by giving into their delusional and obsessive thoughts and that they'd be better off mentally if they learned to accept themselves being a feminine man or masculine woman instead.

Especially with teenagers who aren't mentally developed enough to have an adult identity yet and who are almost universally uncomfortable and insecure with going through puberty, trans or not. Transitioning kids means they'll never even get the chance to grow into a normal adult, they'll forever be stuck with consequences of the insecurities they had in middle/high school which most people grow out of.

It's like treating anorexia with liposuction and diet pills instead of a balanced diet and therapy to get the person to accept their body for what it is. I would also point out that the treatments are merely a form of plastic surgery, not an actual sex change; and that the suicide rate for trans people is always going to be high, regardless of social acceptance, because being trans inherently involves a massive amount of self-loathing.

And the rhetoric of "kids will kill themselves if they can't transition" is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, since the kids who want to will internalize that and become more depressed. In my day we had "it gets better", not "you'll probably kill yourself and you're being genocided" which makes a huge difference to an impressionable and emotional teenager.

 

[Rainbow Child]

1) point out that "but they'll 41% themselves if we don't" isn't true. Show that that number doesn't change after "transition". Also casually mention that suicide-baiting is manipulative abuse and wouldn't be tolerated in any other situation.

2) in the case of the "transbians" and the fujoshis, trot out the numbers. Before "gay marriage" was mainstreamed, transsexuals were a miniscule fraction of a percentage of the population, and the "gay ones" were three percent of that fraction of a percent. Afterwards, we see "homosexual transsexuals" at rates that we used to see transvestites. The numbers speak for themselves. This is also a good argument against "gay marriage".

3) for the "decolonialists" amongst them, compare the flags and the parades to the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party's identical phenomena. Show them, side by side. Like the numbers, the images speak for themselves. It's imperialism for a passive-aggressive audience.

4) point out the "detransitioners". Casually ponder why the empire silences these dissidents. If you live in a country where "conversion therapy" is illegal, then ponder how therapeutically converting someone's body with surgeries and hormones is "accepting their truth" while genuine self acceptance is "conversion therapy" (and criminal). While on the topic, bring up the old mayhem laws. If it's mayhem, then should we do it? If it's not mayhem, then should mothers be drafted? (Remember, we've always got dAyCaRe to raise those kids for you while you're busy spreading liberty and democracy across the globe).

And be patient. It took a generation for this mind virus to reach critical mass. It'll take that long for the remedy to reach all the infected, too. Remind yourself that these same people were just as gung ho then about throwing fags off buildings as they are now about their sons being flowergirls and their daughters being priests at the gay nuptuals. Be prepared for that day when the remedy takes hold. Remember that followers are stupid and extremist. You may find yourself on the other side of the argument once again at that time.

Oh yeah, 5) the TrAnS gEnOcIdE angle. Forgot about that one. Which sounds more like genocide to you? Encouraging confused people to get to the bottom of the confusion, learn to accept themselves for who they are, and go on to marry and GENerate kids? Or sterilising them and ending their family tree right then and there?

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

1) point out that "but they'll 41% themselves if we don't" isn't true. Show that that number doesn't change after "transition". Also casually mention that suicide-baiting is manipulative abuse and wouldn't be tolerated in any other situation.

A good solution to that is to remember what padded cells and straitjackets are for: to prevent self-injury in the worst of situations.

Suicide baiting becomes far less attractive when one can potentially lose their freedom, or turn up with black marks on any background check they try to pass, if they try to do it. If they threaten to kill themselves, institutionalize them.

Problem solved.

Oh yeah, 5) the TrAnS gEnOcIdE angle. Forgot about that one. Which sounds more like genocide to you? Encouraging confused people to get to the bottom of the confusion, learn to accept themselves for who they are, and go on to marry and GENerate kids? Or sterilising them and ending their family tree right then and there?

Also remember that these people see grooming as their main means of "reproduction." It's not that they're worried that we're trying to end the bloodlines of these confused, porn-sick people, they're upset over the fact that we are eradicating the mind virus.

It's comparable to eradicating smallpox or anthrax. We are genociding the disease, not the people who could be potentially infected by it and suffer greatly for it.

Imagine claiming that we're genociding people who are bedridden and sick from either disease. That's exactly the claim that troon apologists try to make.

I know I'm rambling on, even making multiple edits to this point, but their attitude towards this whole thing is comparable to bug-chasers and gift givers. How fags become extremely angry when laws are passed making it a felony to intentionally infect others with AIDS.

Dysgenic death cultists, all of them.

 

[fake farts]

Are most of you middle class/upper-middle class? Down here with all the other rats in the rat race, most people rightly or wrongly have qualms about them.

I've actually gotten on the topic of troons at my wageslave job with co-workers and customers (mostly customers) a few times, and I find this to be true. You'd be surprised how many average people know about this shit to some extent already. A co-worker didn't know about the men in prisons thing, but a customer backed me up. I've chatted with a regular customer about the Bud Light thing before, when I noticed he switched to Yuengling. I've had others, boomers, gen xers, and millennials straight up see this for what it is when it's mentioned. However, to be fair, customers and I don't go getting into politics all the time so I'm sure there are plenty who would not like these convos at all.
If you are doing it online, the best way is to play dumb. Even better, I saw someone suggest this once, pretend to not be American/European/white. Claim your culture doesn't fully understand the trans thing, then when they present their "logic", politely poke holes in it with questions. The more high and mighty neo-libs will love educating a naive brown person.
In real life, the simplest and most accessible way to get to normies is to mention the sports thing. Most people don't play sports, and lots don't even watch sports, but even so, they know throwing 6 foot tall men with 5'4" women isn't fair. It's no surprise this part of the trans backlash has gotten traction. If you want to just go straight in, mention the male rapists in womens prisons, or the surgery they are doing on kids. This shit is becoming more and more mainstream every day. I just saw some bullshit article on the front page of our paper here about "Who gets to decide" about transing kids. The story was about a kid who knew they were trans at 5. I can only hope the backlash continues to get more mainstream as well.

 

[YachieKicchou]

Stay calm and listen to me. Here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna take out a trial for Final Fantasy 14 and make a character on Balmung and stand in Ul'dah for the agreed upon amount of time. No more, no less. Then you're gonna realize every tranny is like the one you see in shout chat. You're gonna observe, you're gonna start believing that every tranny is worthless, and you're not gonna say a damn thing.


No, but really. You don't need some killer argument or some 200 IQ wordplay to convince someone. You need raw exposure. Remind them that behind every anime avatar is a fat balding man. Have them look at the sheer sexual desperation and degeneration in their communities. The coomer anime shit. Most people when exposed to troondom are put off and disgusted (people are just browbeaten into not admitting their disgust).

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

You need raw exposure. Remind them that behind every anime avatar is a fat balding man. Have them look at the sheer sexual desperation and degeneration in their communities.

As much as people like to complain how the internet has made it easier for degenerates to find each other and affirm each other in their degeneracy (the toaster fucker phenomenon), the thing about the internet, it's a two-edged sword.

There was plenty of content from the entirety of the 20th century that indicated that the gay and troon communities were utterly degenerate, to the point that they had to disavow pedophilia in the 90s and bury any evidence that showed that they did, actually, support pedophilia and only disavowed it for the sake of pragmatism. They couldn't have done that if the internet existed then, or was as ubiquitous as it is now.

Can you imagine what would have happened if there was something akin to Libs of Tiktok back during the 70s, 80s, or 90s? The fag and troon movement would have been dead in the fucking water long before it could have legitimized sodomite marriage, long before they could have done any real damage.

But then again, there was the possibility that things wouldn't have been different. We needed to suffer the consequences of wasting our empathy on unrepentant sodomites and degenerates before we'd take our heads out of our asses and realized that those foggy old conservatives and religious fundies had a fucking point.

We needed to be reminded that there were practical reasons for not allowing sexual degeneracy to be practiced in society. That it had nothing to do with being a "bigot" but everything with the fact that homosexuality is simply a disgusting, evil practice.

We needed to give the fags and the troons enough rope to hang themselves, and boy, they did not disappoint.

As amusing as I find it that religious fundies had the last laugh over this issue, it's depressing that the LGBTQP fucked society up so badly before the decades long-belated backlash came.

 

[fake farts]

As much as people like to complain how the internet has made it easier for degenerates to find each other and affirm each other in their degeneracy (the toaster fucker phenomenon), the thing about the internet, it's a two-edged sword.

There was plenty of content from the entirety of the 20th century that indicated that the gay and troon communities were utterly degenerate, to the point that they had to disavow pedophilia in the 90s and bury any evidence that showed that they did, actually, support pedophilia and only disavowed it for the sake of pragmatism. They couldn't have done that if the internet existed then, or was as ubiquitous as it is now.

It was lesbians who stopped that. As usual, they're the lone ones fighting against the more degenerate letters among legbutts. It was also lesbians who would visit dying bug-chasing gay men at the height of AIDs, even though gay men have done little to show soldarity in return. There's a whole lot of LGBDropTheT people online, but lets be honest. Every single one of those letters need to divorce from one another. I know I would absolutely hate to be saddled with degens like gay men and trannies.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

It was lesbians who stopped that. As usual, they're the lone ones fighting against the more degenerate letters among legbutts. It was also lesbians who would visit dying bug-chasing gay men at the height of AIDs, even though gay men have done little to show soldarity in return. There's a whole lot of LGBDropTheT people online, but lets be honest. Every single one of those letters need to divorce from one another. I know I would absolutely hate to be saddled with degens like gay men and trannies.

Many of them feel like they don't have a choice but to stick together. It makes sense. What they all got in common is their addictions to dysgenic sexual practices that show a consistent pattern of spawning other undesirable shit like mental illness, chemical addictions, criminal behavior, or even predatory behavior towards the weakest and most defenseless of people. Even lesbians have a somewhat stronger tendency towards being predators, best examples being Lindsay Amor or Gayle Rubin.

Yes, the fact that they're all sexually degenerate in their own way does mean that they'll eventually eat each other, but they only jettison each other as an absolute last resort. Like pedophilia during the late 80s or 90s, or transgenderism in (hopefully) the new 20s.