US ATF Decision Could Lead to Biggest Gun Registration, Turn-in Effort in American History - Agency's vague AR-15 pistol standards could affect millions

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New guidance from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) could put millions of Americans in legal jeopardy.

The ATF published a notice Thursday that could require millions of AR-15 pistols and similar firearms—which are designed with braces that strap on to a shooter's forearm—to be either registered, turned in, destroyed, or dismantled. But the standards laid out for determining the devices' legality, such as caliber or weight, provide no objective measures, and the agency said it may also use undisclosed factors to judge the legality of the devices.

The agency conceded in the notice that some pistol braces are legal and should not be subject to the registration or destruction requirement. It said, however, that it could not provide a blanket determination for which pistols, or braces with which they're often equipped, are legal and said it would have to examine each gun "on a case-by-case basis." That means owners of the vast majority of the estimated three to four million AR-15 pistols and similar firearms may have to register with the ATF.

Second Amendment advocates were up in arms over the proposed rule, saying the uncertain legal status could destroy several businesses that make pistol braces and harm the gun industry. Erich Pratt, senior vice president of Gun Owners of America (GOA), said the subjective nature of the guidance shows that the "ATF has gone off into the deep end."

"GOA will rally the grassroots to fight these regulations, and if they eventually go into effect, we will commence immediate legal action to protect gun owners," Pratt said in a statement.

The controversy stems from how federal law distinguishes between short-barrel rifles and shotguns, both of which must be registered and require a $200 tax stamp, and pistols that do not require either. The key component is whether a firearm is designed to be pressed against the shooter's shoulder. Since 2012, the ATF has classified several guns with braces designed to strap to a shooter's forearm as pistols. The agency's Boston field office called that interpretation into question in August after sending a cease and desist letter to one manufacturer. The agency ordered a review in October following intervention from the White House.

Neither the ATF nor the White House responded to a request for comment.

The notice said the agency plans to waive the $200 tax for those registering the affected firearms during a grace period to be announced later. The public has two weeks to offer comment on the ATF notice before it goes into effect.



I'm kinda pissed about this as I bought a ZPAP 92 and brought it to a gunsmith to have a brace fitted and now my gun is stuck in this gay limbo.
 
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murdered meat bag said:
The atf goes back and forth if having the stock on your cheek or shoulder is illegal or not. someone here said it's legal now. But this shit and the 3d printing autosear doofuses are going to make the government regulate 3d printers soon.
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Regulating 3d printers? Which just like firearms in this context, can be built as perfectly functioning units with quite literally $20 worth in spare electronic parts? You would have a easier time disarming the country through force, then eliminating 3d printers as the consumer level. Once the 3d printing community reverse engineers titanium FDM printing its going to be even sillier.
 
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DeadFish said:
Someone please explain what a gun trust is?
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its like a corporation for guns. you can let the registered people in the gun trust use and transport any tax stamped guns registered to it.

if you registered the stamp under your name you'd have to be present whenever someone wanted to shoot it or use the shit.
potato in mah painus said:
Regulating 3d printers? Which just like firearms in this context, can be built as perfectly functioning units with quite literally $20 worth in spare electronic parts? You would have a easier time disarming the country through force, then eliminating 3d printers as the consumer level. Once the 3d printing community reverse engineers titanium FDM printing its going to be even sillier.
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you can royal nonesuch guns too. with regulations there'll be more hurdles for the normies.

we'll see if the autosear wall hook is going to be a big enough issue, afaik theres only been 1 or 2 idiots selling those online.
 
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I remember reading about the AR "brace" and anyone is free to correct me.

Some dude wanted to help out his disabled friend shoot, and asked if putting a brace on a pistol would be an issue and the answer was something like "depends on how you shoot it"

I ve seen videos of people who are fucking holding their "pistol" with braces like they are rifles and shooting them thusly.

FYI all our gun laws are stupid IMO.
 
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"Loophole chasing". :story:

A loophole is legal, perhaps contrary to intent, but legal nonetheless. Reminder that the law says not what we can do, but what we cannot do, and the ATF's ONLY job is to handle firearms related enforcement, yet they couldn't be arsed to properly tell people what they cannot do? Come on now.

The ATF had an easy chance early on, they didn't shut it down, and they had more than ample opportunity even after that for months. It isn't like companies weren't submitting nearly identical designs right and left for YEARS.

Blaming gun owners and manufacturers for following the law as clarified by the ATF is some cuck shit and that attitude got us the assault weapon bans we currently still deal with in states run by communists.

And in those states it is ONLY because of loophole chasers that those states retain a semblance of manageable gun laws, usually in the face of a DOJ that won't issue a letter clarifying anything, so fuck right off with that.
 
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northstar747 said:
I remember reading about the AR "brace" and anyone is free to correct me.

Some dude wanted to help out his disabled friend shoot, and asked if putting a brace on a pistol would be an issue and the answer was something like "depends on how you shoot it"

I ve seen videos of people who are fucking holding their "pistol" with braces like they are rifles and shooting them thusly.

FYI all our gun laws are stupid IMO.
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the brace was made because shooting ar like a pistol sucks. its front heavy because the magazine is in front of your. unlike in the handle or aboe your hand like in a real pistol. and since you can't shoulder it, it has shit recoil so you cant get quick site pictures (like you can the real ar)
HarblMcDavid said:
"Loophole chasing". :story:

A loophole is legal, perhaps contrary to intent, but legal nonetheless. Reminder that the law says not what we can do, but what we cannot do, and the ATF's ONLY job is to handle firearms related enforcement, yet they couldn't be arsed to properly tell people what they cannot do? Come on now.

The ATF had an easy chance early on, they didn't shut it down, and they had more than ample opportunity even after that for months. It isn't like companies weren't submitting nearly identical designs right and left for YEARS.

Blaming gun owners and manufacturers for following the law as clarified by the ATF is some cuck shit and that attitude got us the assault weapon bans we currently still deal with in states run by communists.

And in those states it is ONLY because of loophole chasers that those states retain a semblance of manageable gun laws, usually in the face of a DOJ that won't issue a letter clarifying anything, so fuck right off with that.
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lol, its a pistol, use it like one. Since its sucks as a pistol so get a tax stamp and make it a rifle. or learn how to work around a carbine. 10 seconds of thought made me realize ar pistols were going to get vanned back in 2012-14.

and loophole chasers is how you get stupid fucking designs for ars.

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and lol you cant do tactical reloads on them because they lock the mag release if the action is closed.
 
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ColtWalker1847 said:
Does this mean that the Chiappa Mare's Leg I have been meaning to buy is now an SBR because these AR-tards can't stop poking the BATFE bear?

If you fuckers ruin my life goal of doing the large hoop flippy thing because you can't stop dicking around making "not technically a stock" shit until they just blanket ban everything, I'll be pissed.
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I believe that like the Mossberg Shockwave, the Mare's Leg is considered a "firearm" and so is not affected by the pistol brace issue.
northstar747 said:
I remember reading about the AR "brace" and anyone is free to correct me.

Some dude wanted to help out his disabled friend shoot, and asked if putting a brace on a pistol would be an issue and the answer was something like "depends on how you shoot it"
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This is correct.
Snekposter said:
Fuck the ATF. The minute you slap a foregrip on a pistol it magically becomes an "Any Other Weapon" and you need to pony up $200 for the tax stamp.
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I was under the impression that "any other weapon" was subject to a $50 tax stamp, not $200?
murdered meat bag said:
the brace was made because shooting ar like a pistol sucks. its front heavy because the magazine is in front of your. unlike in the handle or aboe your hand like in a real pistol. and since you can't shoulder it, it has shit recoil so you cant get quick site pictures (like you can the real ar)

lol, its a pistol, use it like one. Since its sucks as a pistol so get a tax stamp and make it a rifle. or learn how to work around a carbine. 10 seconds of thought made me realize ar pistols were going to get vanned back in 2012-14.
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I've handled some of these "braced" AR and AK pistols at gun shows, and I can tell you that even if you did shoulder it (which legally speaking you're not supposed to...allegedly...this week maybe next week ATF will change it's mind again...) it's still a pretty poor substitute for an actual stock, and if you really wanted a functional firearm you should just get an actual stock and register it as an SBR. Since I've never wanted to deal with the hassle of having an NFA item, I was never interested.

If you've got one and you're worried about legal issues, just toss the brace and keep your pistol as it came from the manufacturer. Learn how to fire it two handed close to the cheek. Or just take the L and sell it to some local gun shop, I know that a lot of them are suffering from a dearth of inventory at the moment.
 
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make_it_so said:
If you've got one and you're worried about legal issues, just toss the brace and keep your pistol as it came from the manufacturer. Learn how to fire it two handed close to the cheek. Or just take the L and sell it to some local gun shop, I know that a lot of them are suffering from a dearth of inventory at the moment.
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I'd bet most people will do none of the above, keep their "pistol" as it is, and just say it was sold to a private party or something. That happened every other time something was declared illegal and there was absolutely no way for the government to find it and physically take it from the owner. That's also not just limited to this country.
 
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