Attitudes to the disabled and the Chris-community

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Targaryen

kiwifarms.net
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May 10, 2013
This post is going to be somewhat against the grain and I wouldn't be surprised to see it locked but just know my goal here isn't to create problems or conflict but to put the same objective and analytical/critical lens that Chris and people around him are subject to onto another important group of players in Chris's story. Namely Chris-watchers like myself.

While I am fully of the view that Chris is a jerk with few redeeming qualities- I feel the wider community around him is a lightening rod for shitty and depressing attitudes toward the disabled I want to challenge that and open a discussion,

1) Call me an SJW if you will but I often feel offended by the way slurs towards the mentality disabled are causally thrown around in Chris discussion (the r-word, "tard" etc) If there was a jerky lolcow of Chris proportions who was black or gay would that make casual derogatory usage of racial or homophobic terms ok? (and "gay", the other f-words etc are used in the same non-literal derogatory way for example) I feel like some in the wider Chris community use him as an excuse to express prejudice and bigotry in a socially acceptable context.

2) It seems like nearly every discussion about Chris features someone going "WELL I have an autistic/intellectually disabled cousin/brother/sister/acquittance who has a job and runs marathons in his spare time!" in the delusion this is displaying a disability positive attitude. With society and the economy as it is now plenty of people with non of Chris's setbacks and many many with them are in his positive despite their best efforts. Using the highly laudable achievements of disabled people to beat down other impaired people is on a level with "oh you're so articulate... not like those other blacks!" .. bigoted bs in other words.

3) Maybe it's because I'm a European socialist (here the latter label is neither stigmatised nor a badge of "ohh-look-how-edgy-I-am!") who just doesn't relate to widely held public views on "welfare" .. but it never ceases to baffle and disturb me how Chris honestly claiming a government benefit to which he is legally entitled and likely could not survive without is a source of shame/seen as a moral flaw. In an ideal world they'd be plentiful jobs suited to the talents and impairments of people like Chris that pay a living wage, but we don't live in an ideal world we live in a world where the disabled statistically are overwhelmingly economically excluded. I feel Chris IS entitled to his tugboat and not trying harder to enhance his income finding a permitted job and how he spends his money might be harmful for him but they're no one else's business. Tax payers huh? I mean it's not like anyone else has to put up with their taxes going to stuff they disapprove of is it? I don't feel he spends taxpayers money on vidya, I feel his spends the meagre share of the collective wealth the government feels is appropriate to grant those economically excluded via no fault of their own... which even with the maximum effort in play is the situation Chris will likely always fall into.
 
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http://www.sonichu.com/cwcki/Chris_and_Money
 
Yeah? Well, y'know, that's just like, uh...your opinion, man.

In other words: meh.
 
Why post a thread that you know is going to get locked?
 
MrTroll said:
Why post a thread that you know is going to get locked?

Because I suspect there's two things Chris and many of his critics (some here) share.

1) the steadfast belief that they're unquestionably "the good guys" in the saga despite evidence to the contrary.

2) a complete intolerance to being called on their BS

I'd like to be proven wrong and to have an open discussion on this- but like most online communities this one has its tribalism. This clearly isn't a place for a a range of perspectives on Chris and the culture around him but one quite narrow one. That's fine- this is your private web-space to do what you want with. I won't bitch and cry if this is locked is my point and also that I'm not "trolling" for a reaction or a fight even if the topic for discussion is a little contentious.
 
I've said it before: if schadenfreude is a sin I'll take it up with God when I'm dead.
 
I'd like to add I'm in no way putting myself on a moral pedestal above anyone here. I'm here voyeruistically seeking out new content on a miserable disturbed man who wants to be left alone.. often finding considerable (probably cruel) humour in his exploits.
 
None of this is even remotely close to skidding across the surface of reality.

People realize that the trolls were picking on him, but the funny thing is a lot of the trolling was just typical situations injected in his life. Alec Benson Leary served as friendly competition, and instead of trying his best to improve his comics, Chris threatens him legally and physically, ignores all of his offers, brushes him off in conversation, and is consistently rude in Skype. Conversely, Kacey was a bad troll because she had a poor personality but was supposed to be a Mary Sue. You don't really care that Chris doesn't change to impress Kacey because it's unlikely anyone else would want to either. Even more extreme is Bluespike, who did really nasty things to win Chris' trust and used that to get him to do potentially life threatening things. Nobody says that Alec was trying to help Chris, but at the same time, nobody can say Alec was doing anything really abhorrent.

And the bottom line about your "social justice warrior" "European socialist" views on the disabled is this: nobody like stupid selfish pricks. You can argue that Chris isn't all there, but it doesn't matter. What he does, what he does not do, what he says, and what he doesn't say make up his personality. From that, we have unanimously concluded that he is a shithead. Everyone that tries to stand up for Chris eventually gives up. You wouldn't believe how many of his highschool friends started emailing people on his behalf only to IMMEDIATELY call it quits at the very second they saw the "shecameforcwc" picture. Even if we say that Chris is completely out of it and has never been "in it", people still wouldn't like him. You know as well as I do he is intentionally trying to put on a facade with the charity facebook shit to get t-shirts and brownie points, not giving a shit about what the money goes to as long as he gets his loot. His actions point to a conscious, sentient, and very dumb sociopath. He asks people to murder, torch, and destroy on his behalf. Is this a symptom of autism? Seems to me like you're the one with a shitty view on people with disabilities.

As for the welfare, that's argued. Some people think he should be forced to get a job or be put in a home where he can work doing manual services for his money. Some people agree that it's best just to give him money and let him rot in 14BLC because he cannot function in society. The thing is that this is a conversation to be had, and has been had, and has been done to death. Why you think your opinion is the be-all end-all to this critical point in Chris' life is beyond me.

Which leads me to this: I can't figure out what the fuck you're trying to say. Is this you ranting for the sake of it? Are you trying to change our minds and assume that Chris is a poor hapless retard that needs and deserves to be catered to because he's so totally defenseless? What's the point?
 
1. There's a big difference between using a slur and actually being prejudiced. Most of the people I know who use the word "faggot" don't actually have anything against gays.

2. You're probably taking more offense at this than you should. A civil rights activist opposes blatant discrimination and bigotry, while a SJW makes a huge deal out of every offense, intentional or not.

3. It's not Chris's mental disability that prevents him from being employed, unless you count being an insufferable asshole as a disability. Even so, this wouldn't be such a big deal if Chris wasn't spending obscene amounts of money on video games, and then complaining about gas and having to pay someone's medical bills.
 
I don't object to opposite points of view here on the forum. It honestly livens things up a little bit for a while.

1) No it's not ok to use racial slurs or slurs against the retarded. The world has become very sensitive about offending anyone. However ,as uncomfortable it might be, a person who's retarded is very diffent then someone who's being a retard. I would never call a retard a retard. It's not cool. I would call someone who acts like an idiot all the time a retard. It's not that I'm prejudice against the retarded it's just that it's just what people where I live call people who are being a massive idiot. Chris is a massive idiot so to me he's retarded. You might be right with the last point. People could be using him as a way to acceptably be prejudice. It just depends on the individual.

2) I agree. It's easy to forget a lot of mentally disabled people who acheive in life have at least some sort of support. It's something Chris has had zero of and probably never will at this point. Whether for good or bad we use the disabled people we may be ralated to or know to try and show we aren't just making stuff up. When referencing this towards Chris a lot of it comes off as mean spirited that's true. It's just that I believe a lot of people here get annoyed with Chris being an idiot with no will to try at anything or even attempt to improve himself and comparing him to other disabled people is the best way to express this.

3) Yep, Chris needs wellfare and I don't believe it should be taken away. No one would hire him at this point since his age, zero work experience, and his obvious mental problems combined with his innability to really socialize would make him an employers nightmare. As an American, I'd rather pay my taxes towards Chris then our Congress right now lol. Should Chris find work? Yes. Is he? No and that's ok.

Null = Awesome
 
Null I'm not going to respond to your post in detail because (and hey this could be my fault) you've missed all of my points entirely. I think Chris is a major league grade-A dick. A big part of that is down to his own choices. I also feel be shouldn't be used as an excuse to shit on other disabled/autistic people. I don't believe if someone is a bad person then anything goes.

Also I'm not lumping all Chris-trolls and critics into the same box. I am critical of Chris and some of the famous trolling like liquid Chris and asperchu were harmless/amusing and only became an issue cos of Chris' extreme reaction to them.

However..

Null said:
And the bottom line about your "social justice warrior" "European socialist" views on the disabled is this...

...As for the welfare, that's argued. Some people think he should be forced to get a job or be put in a home where he can work doing manual services for his money.

However, you know there's a caricature you can use to dismiss any political opinion. If I took the polar opposite position you could call me a tea-bagger, or Ayn Rand freak or an MRA loveshy type. It's a lot easier to sIt on the fence and sneer at literally everyone who cares about something. To pretend to be the apex of moderate common sense normalcy and prove it by obsessing over every detail of an obscure autistic man's life...

But since I'm not the one who just put labour camps for the disabled forward as a legitimate option I feel pretty ok about myself right now tbh
 
Your last point is moot.

I'm in England, and a massive supporter of the welfare state AS A SAFETY NET.

What I can't stand is able-bodied people using it as a way of life (ie Chris, those chavs with the 13 kids getting the £600,000 super house because she can't keep her legs shut) so yeah, I'm calling SJW on you.

Particularly for the slurs thing. It's against a selfish, waste of DNA with very little to no redeeming features (seriously, name one!) Chris is a lazy little prick who has no ambitions for self improvement, and I severely doubt that the lack of a desire to improve yourself is a symptom of autism.

tl;dr: HI ANNA!
 
IMO, it's not that Chris is on welfare that annoys people, it's the way he chooses to spend it.

I myself had to rely on welfare for several years. Half of it went on rent and bills, the other half on groceries, and I certainly could not afford a stack of games and entertainment every month.
 
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Are you saying I dismissed what you had to say because you called yourself a communist? I dismissed what you had to say after reading it and thinking about because it was all wrong. Unlike you, who read what I had to say, decided to completely ignore all of it, and then quoted two lines and a hypothetical opinion that I don't even hold to attack in a way that also doesn't even fucking refute it.

I mean, this is absolutely obnoxious behavior. We have hundreds if not thousands of threads about Chris and somehow people for the most part have managed to give and receive opinions like adults, and then you show up, shit on the front page, and when anyone asks what you're talking about you proceed to take the shit and smear it across your face. I'm going to be forced to assume that you're trolling unless you can stop being such a cunt.
 
CWCissey said:
I'm calling SJW on you.

Oh no. :(

However will I ever go on?

All I'm saying is if you honestly believe Chris is not too impaired that could hold down a living wage job, I feel like I take logistic issue with your personal understanding of autism and the contemporary labour market.

That's the problem with the genuine claimants vs SCROUNGERS debate around "welfare" (aka social security) in the UK. It's simply not a black and white empirical dividing line. The debate is not really enriched by Daily Mail-style assertions that some random on the internet has a better idea about the work capability of someone than the Doctors and trained professionals who approved him.
 
Targaryen said:
CWCissey said:
I'm calling SJW on you.

Oh no. :(

However will I ever go on?

All I'm saying is if you honestly believe Chris is not too impaired that could hold down a living wage job, I feel like I take logistic issue with your personal understanding of autism and the contemporary labour market.

That's the problem with the genuine claimants vs SCROUNGERS debate around "welfare" (aka social security) in the UK. It's simply not a black and white empirical dividing line. The debate is not really enriched by Daily Mail-style assertions that some random on the internet has a better idea about the work capability of someone than the Doctors and trained professionals who approved him.

The Terminally Stupid One said:
High-Functioning autism.

The Terminally Stupid One said:
High-Functioning autism.

The Terminally Stupid One said:
High-Functioning

If he's so high functioning, then yes, a living wage job is well within his oily grasp (if he could be bothered). It doesn't have to be a good job but I could see Chris managing a McDonalds or something in another life.

Face it Anna, Dumb-dumb isn't that unable!
 
Null said:
Are you saying I dismissed what you had to say because you called yourself a communist?


Pro-tip. Communism/socialism aren't the same thing.

Also I'm on the very moderate wing of socialist belief to the point "social democrat" might be a more accurate description of my views

Skimming over the potty-mouth for a second pro-tip no2 you're not obligated to reply to my posts if you don't think it will be constructive. Same goes for what and if I choose to reply to in responses to my thread.
 
CWCissey said:
If he's so high functioning, then yes, a living wage job is well within his oily grasp (if he could be bothered). It doesn't have to be a good job but I could see Chris managing a McDonalds or something in another life.

Face it Anna, Dumb-dumb isn't that unable!

To be fair, there's plenty of people without disabilities who have trouble finding a job, and McDonalds doesn't pay a living wage.

The bigger issue is how Chris chooses to spend his welfare. Socialists typically don't defend people spending that much welfare money on video games.
 
Targaryen said:
Same goes for what and if I choose to reply to in responses to my thread.
You come onto the forums, you make no real argument, and you do it in an insipid and detestable way. I'm going to lock your thread and issue you a warning, but here's how human beings conduct themselves on an Internet forum:

Targaryen said:
All I'm saying is if you honestly believe Chris is not too impaired that could hold down a living wage job, I feel like I take logistic issue with your personal understanding of autism and the contemporary labour market
okay great wow what a good and well worded and concise point so lets turn this into an Internet forum thread.

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There you go, that's how you make a thread that actually facilitates discussion instead of asking for a ban. Good luck!
 
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