Autism and Violence

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Since we're talking about funny autist things: I've mentioned my younger brother before, who suffers from severe autism and ADHD. He's never gotten violent with people, but he has broken at least 4 PS2 consoles by headbutting them, along with at least one PSP and an Xbox. This was when he was a teenager before we got his medication figured out and got him in to a good program. He was conscious of these things and knew it was wrong, and has since learned not to do them. So if you're curious why I seemingly whiteknight real autists, now you have your answer. If any of you were as close to a person like this as I am you would do the same.

Luckily he really likes Nintendo stuff and as we all know, they are made of Nintendium and impervious to any damage.
 
Wild animals who attack humans are usually held responsible. The animal is incapacitated so it cannot do any more harm. This is also what prisons are generally for - you protect the general population by sequestering dangerous individuals.

Shouldn't an autist who victimizes people be stopped, just as a non-autist who harms people in the same way? It's for the people being harmed.

I think to treat them with humanity is to treat them as individuals, using the same ethical/moral system you use to judge all other humans.

Mom look I'm being edgy on the internet!
 
Mom look I'm being edgy on the internet!
I'm autistic as nine hells, but if I were to kill or otherwise grievously harm someone, I'd actually want to face the punishment for what I've done instead of using autism as a get out of jail free card. It should only be used as an excuse for autism that's severe enough to warrant it because that person has no control over his actions, and even then they'd probably send him to a psych ward to keep him contained where he can't harm others anyway (I know that's way different from prison with different goals in mind but it's still containment where he can't harm innocent people anyway).

So there's actually a point to Petey's post besides being an edgelord and pissing people off, that's just made invalid by treating all autistic people as though they're Rain Men who can totally make their own decisions, which it's not always that way. As I said, autism is caused by crossed and jumbled brain tubes in utero and that can take on many different degrees of scrambling, hence the idea of an autism spectrum and special needs.
 
I'm autistic as nine hells, but if I were to kill or otherwise grievously harm someone, I'd actually want to face the punishment for what I've done instead of using autism as a get out of jail free card. It should only be used as an excuse for autism that's severe enough to warrant it because that person has no control over his actions, and even then they'd probably send him to a psych ward to keep him contained where he can't harm others anyway (I know that's way different from prison with different goals in mind but it's still containment where he can't harm innocent people anyway).

So there's actually a point to Petey's post besides being an edgelord and pissing people off, that's just made invalid by treating all autistic people as though they're Rain Men who can totally make their own decisions, which it's not always that way. As I said, autism is caused by crossed and jumbled brain tubes in utero and that can take on many different degrees of scrambling, hence the idea of an autism spectrum and special needs.

I completely agree that individuals who's autism is so severe that it poses a danger to to themselves or others should probably be hospitalized. That being said the op's post is still terrible and dumb.
 
Since we're talking about funny autist things: I've mentioned my younger brother before, who suffers from severe autism and ADHD. He's never gotten violent with people, but he has broken at least 4 PS2 consoles by headbutting them, along with at least one PSP and an Xbox. This was when he was a teenager before we got his medication figured out and got him in to a good program. He was conscious of these things and knew it was wrong, and has since learned not to do them. So if you're curious why I seemingly whiteknight real autists, now you have your answer. If any of you were as close to a person like this as I am you would do the same.

Luckily he really likes Nintendo stuff and as we all know, they are made of Nintendium and impervious to any damage.
At least he broke a Hexbox too.
 
I say autists who commit assault or destroy property are absolutely responsible. All people who make choices have moral agency. Many say, "You, sir, lack sympathy. Autists don't have a choice." I say, if this is true, it makes such autists instinctive predators. I don't care about sensory overload; I don't care about triggers. One who commits assault is an assailant. One who destroys property is a vandal. One who murders is a murderer.

Example autist I don't sympathize with:

Here's a great article, written by a mother who was in fear of her life because of her hulking, autistic son who would frequently attack people and attempt rape.
http://www.salon.com/2009/03/26/bauer_autism/
If there were a link between autism and violence then this thread would be sufficient grounds for charging you with murder
 
I checked up on that woman who had the violent, seriously autistic son.
Andrew is 24 now. He’s an extraordinary painter, working at a gallery full of artists who are like him … and artists who are not. He lives in a home with three other young men, one of whom shares his talents and eccentricities. They play basketball on the weekends. Andrew is a fierce and highly rated player on the circuit for tournament chess.
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/30/the_new_autism_reality/

Evidently, even an autist who - beat his mother twice, once to the point of hospitalization, pissed all over the floors and walls, accosted his 14-year-old sister, choked a young woman into unconsciousness, and attacked numerous other people - could get better. How uplifting.
 
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In conclusion autists are unthinking emotionless murder machines but damn if they aren't fucking hilarious

Whether or not these stories are real, this is some of the best shit I have read in a long, long time.
 
Mom look I'm being edgy on the internet!

He's not being edgy to suggest autistics should be held accountable for the actions on the same level as normal humans, but I do disagree with him. Autistics cannot feel empathy, compassion or other human emotions which drive us to be anything more than shrieking rabid animals, so we can hardly blame them when they hurt people and destroy property in autistic tantrums. The autistic is nothing more than a creature of dumb passions and mute ignorance, it cannot think, feel or understand concepts that are native to you or I. It's little more than a meat automaton in the shape of a person ; a fleshgolem incapable of human reasoning or motives. We can hardly hold them accountable for their actions. You can't blame a bullet, or a gun, you blame the thinking and sentient person who pulls the trigger with malicious intent. Thus, we cannot blame the autistic. No, it is us, all of us, as a society at whole. It is our fault. We all shoulder the responsibility of every shrieking autistic chimpout, for our persistent and misguided refusal to humanely dispose of autistics the second they're diagnosed.

Also, niggers.
 
He's not being edgy to suggest autistics should be held accountable for the actions on the same level as normal humans, but I do disagree with him. Autistics cannot feel empathy, compassion or other human emotions which drive us to be anything more than shrieking rabid animals, so we can hardly blame them when they hurt people and destroy property in autistic tantrums. The autistic is nothing more than a creature of dumb passions and mute ignorance, it cannot think, feel or understand concepts that are native to you or I. It's little more than a meat automaton in the shape of a person ; a fleshgolem incapable of human reasoning or motives. We can hardly hold them accountable for their actions. You can't blame a bullet, or a gun, you blame the thinking and sentient person who pulls the trigger with malicious intent. Thus, we cannot blame the autistic. No, it is us, all of us, as a society at whole. It is our fault. We all shoulder the responsibility of every shrieking autistic chimpout, for our persistent and misguided refusal to humanely dispose of autistics the second they're diagnosed.

Also, niggers.

So you would favor a eugenics based removal of autistics from society, right?

Would you have them contained or euthanized?

This is a very interesting thread, but for a person such as myself who likes to examine policy - I must ask you to please elaborate the details of your clearly well thought out and strongly desired vision, @Dynastia .

Please tell me what you mean by "disposal". Also do you have a plan to prevent further chances the autism mutation from occuring? You seem to really have thought this out, Dyna.

I really want to hear more.
 
So you would favor a eugenics based removal of autistics from society, right?

Would you have them contained or euthanized?

This is a very interesting thread, but for a person such as myself who likes to examine policy - I must ask you to please elaborate the details of your clearly well thought out and strongly desired vision, @Dynastia .

Please tell me what you mean by "disposal". Also do you have a plan to prevent further chances the autism mutation from occuring? You seem to really have thought this out, Dyna.

I really want to hear more.

All of them should be put in a rocket and fired into the moon.
 
All of them should be put in a rocket and fired into the moon.

According to the CDC the prevalence of autism is roughly 1 in every 68 children. The estimated number of people with autism spectrum is 3.5 in just the US by itself.

You are proposing that we launch potentially 10's of millions of people into the moon. There is not nearly enough infrastructure to support that type of initiative.

Where did you come up with this concept?
 
No, they aren't. They're animals. They're not moral agents, so they are obviously not responsible for their actions.

If moral agency was the only determinant of humanity and these people were entirely just animals, then we would be under no obligation to take care of them either.

All of them should be put in a rocket and fired into the moon.

One might even say they are on the Wrong Planet.
 
All of them should be put in a rocket and fired into the moon.

That seems like a rather expensive way of solving the problem. Consider how much autists weigh, and the fact that it costs approximately $10,000 a pound to launch material into space. Now, crashing it into the Moon once you get them there is simple, but consider the cost of the spacecraft.

In any event, imagine that the average autist weighs about 500 pounds. At $10,000 a pound, that's $5,000,000 to dispose of a single autist, not even counting the cost of the launch vehicle. You could limit this by stuffing in as many autists as would fit, but that would still be a substantial cost.

Clearly, this is a vastly inefficient solution.
 
Okay, on a serious note.

There's basically two problems, the incoming stream of newly diagnosed autistics (the influx) and the massive, massive reservoir of already diagnosed, of all ages (the overflow). The influx problem is simple enough to deal with, simply have the diagnosing physician quickly and humanely administer a surgical hammer to the base of the upper spine apon diagnosis. Little mess, little fuss, generally humane, and in all honesty it doesn't take any specialised training, so it could be delegated to a nurse or orderly if the doctor in question has an objection to performing the procedure himself (a sore elbow, or what have you). Clinics that specialise in the diagnosis of autism might want to invest in captive bolt guns and rubber sheeting to catch any incidental mess but really, that's up to them.

The overflow is a slightly trickier problem. Obviously everybody's first thought runs to cattle carts and gas chambers, as popularised by the Third Reich, but I posit that the mass transportation of autistics for orderly disposal is overcomplicated and uneccessary. Camps like Buchenwald and Auschwitz were founded on the Nazi's original plans to intern Jews for the duration of the war instead of exterminating them, and we simply cannot afford to show the kind of weak wishy-washy compassion that Nazis became famous for when we're dealing with autistics. The opposite extreme would be a Balkan or Cambodian style free-for-all in which poorly trained or completely untrained militias are let loose to deal with the autists as they see fit. While this seems a less costly solution, we have to take into account lost work-hours, damage to property by well-meaning but overexcited militiamen, and the inevitable possibility that some opportunistic folks will falsely label their enemies autists as an excuse to kill them. We need less governmental oversight than the Nazi method, but more than the Balkan method.

I propose we look to Latin America, specifically political suppressions in countries like Guatamala and Nicuaragua. Autistics are already documented in the medical system, so we have our "kill list". All that's needed now is a few black helicopters to ferry some highly professional military personnel around in the dead of the night, going house-to-house and disposing of all documented autistics. I'd generally advise machetes and bayonets only, but if there are any morale issues concerning being sent into lethal engagements without the use of firearms, frangible ammunition and less-lethal chemical agents could certainly be authorised, to minimise destruction of property and unwanted collateral killings while still ensuring the safety of our operatives.

Good enough?
 
Okay, on a serious note.

There's basically two problems, the incoming stream of newly diagnosed autistics (the influx) and the massive, massive reservoir of already diagnosed, of all ages (the overflow). The influx problem is simple enough to deal with, simply have the diagnosing physician quickly and humanely administer a surgical hammer to the base of the upper spine apon diagnosis. Little mess, little fuss, generally humane, and in all honesty it doesn't take any specialised training, so it could be delegated to a nurse or orderly if the doctor in question has an objection to performing the procedure himself (a sore elbow, or what have you). Clinics that specialise in the diagnosis of autism might want to invest in captive bolt guns and rubber sheeting to catch any incidental mess but really, that's up to them.

The overflow is a slightly trickier problem. Obviously everybody's first thought runs to cattle carts and gas chambers, as popularised by the Third Reich, but I posit that the mass transportation of autistics for orderly disposal is overcomplicated and uneccessary. Camps like Buchenwald and Auschwitz were founded on the Nazi's original plans to intern Jews for the duration of the war instead of exterminating them, and we simply cannot afford to show the kind of weak wishy-washy compassion that Nazis became famous for when we're dealing with autistics. The opposite extreme would be a Balkan or Cambodian style free-for-all in which poorly trained or completely untrained militias are let loose to deal with the autists as they see fit. While this seems a less costly solution, we have to take into account lost work-hours, damage to property by well-meaning but overexcited militiamen, and the inevitable possibility that some opportunistic folks will falsely label their enemies autists as an excuse to kill them. We need less governmental oversight than the Nazi method, but more than the Balkan method.

I propose we look to Latin America, specifically political suppressions in countries like Guatamala and Nicuaragua. Autistics are already documented in the medical system, so we have our "kill list". All that's needed now is a few black helicopters to ferry some highly professional military personnel around in the dead of the night, going house-to-house and disposing of all documented autistics. I'd generally advise machetes and bayonets only, but if there are any morale issues concerning being sent into lethal engagements without the use of firearms, frangible ammunition and less-lethal chemical agents could certainly be authorised, to minimise destruction of property and unwanted collateral killings while still ensuring the safety of our operatives.

Good enough?

Interesting, and the justification for this is that "Autists lack moral agency" and by your own words - "Autistics cannot feel empathy, compassion or other human emotions which drive us to be anything more than shrieking rabid animals, so we can hardly blame them when they hurt people and destroy property in autistic tantrums. The autistic is nothing more than a creature of dumb passions and mute ignorance, it cannot think, feel or understand concepts that are native to you or I. It's little more than a meat automaton in the shape of a person ; a fleshgolem incapable of human reasoning or motives."

So you have decided that it would be appropriate to conduct a campaign devoid of empathy, compassion, or other human emotion that is little more than an efficient extermination of large swaths of people who possess a particular genetic mutation. In fact you are treating live human being like animals, this seems to actually devalue human life and perhaps seem like an over reactionary solution that is akin to flailing one's arms to remove something you don't like. You would be turning our medical institutions, military and public safety apparatus into an enormous "peoplegolem" incapable of human reasoning or motives.

I am strangely seeing parallels in your initiative and the exact people you are wanting to exterminate. Might it be argued that this entire campaign lacks moral agency as it seems to require activity that is very contrary to our moral beliefs that human life is something that should be preserved and given some level respect.

Some of the comments on this thread and even aspects of the thread itself lack this moral agency - are you sure that some of the other posters in this thread might not be autistic themselves?
 
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