Avatar: The Last Airbender / The Legend of Korra

[Autistic Sandwich]

The Legend of Korra and its consequences have been a disaster for the Avatar franchise and the human race.

 

[Neet Tokusatsu]

I always assumed it was because some Nick exec told them they're not allowed to have one of their most marketable characters murk a guy in front of millions of children.

It's funny because the Lion Turtle is technically all over the show in terms of iconography (I think there's even an actual picture of it on a scroll when they visit the Library), but for some reason they never bothered to set up the finale. It felt like a last minute change and not at all in keeping with the rest of the show's writing quality.

Totally agree. Thing is, with Avatar existing as a standalone series, this decision was questionable but forgivable in the grand scheme because the whole experience was so satisfying. Now the experience is increasingly un-satisfying and it becomes more and more apparent that this hiccup was not just a hiccup.

That's the funniest thing, they had plenty of time in season 3 to set up the Lion Turtle earlier, there's a lot of filler episodes in that season alone such as The Ember Island Players, The beach, Nightmares and Daydreams, and more where they could easily add a copule lines of dialog if not Aang traveling to the spirit world earlier for guidance. But nope, better have the Lion introduced in the very last minute, and thus, having the whole universe warp to suit Aang's needs.

The whole thing with the Lion Turtle wasn't the result of Nick's censorship, but the writer's poor planning and incompetence, the way Korra, the book and novels were handled are proof of that.

 

[starborn427614]

That's the funniest thing, they had plenty of time in season 3 to set up the Lion Turtle earlier, there's a lot of filler episodes in that season alone such as The Ember Island Players, The beach, Nightmares and Daydreams, and more where they could easily add a copule lines of dialog if not Aang traveling to the spirit world earlier for guidance. But nope, better have the Lion introduced in the very last minute, and thus, having the whole universe warp to suit Aang's needs.

The whole thing with the Lion Turtle wasn't the result of Nick's censorship, but the writer's poor planning and incompetence, the way Korra, the book and novels were handled are proof of that.

Nightmares and Daydreams would've been the perfect opportunity, just make it an actual vision bleeding into Aang's dreams.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

You know what something?
All this writing failure makes me to still working on my novel.

 

[Duine In Cudromach]

I don't want to defend the movie, but you've missed a scene here. We had two scenes about this. Tagah asks Aang how he survived the massacre, Aang explains that he ran away when he was told he was the avatar, and Tagah says that fate brought them together so that they can both redeem themselves by bringing back the Air Nomads. Then the other scene after Tagah teaches Aang the air tether technique and remarks on how simmilar Aang is to Avatar Whats-her-name where they again discuss Aang's guilt and the line about the Air Nomad's beliefs about death that Aang will later say back to Tagah at the end.

Fair enough!

I had to muster up the energy to go back and re-watch this scene, and I realized why it slid off my consciousness-- Tagah's response to it. Aang reveals to him that it's his fault (or at least, he feels it's his fault) that the Air Nomads were annihilated. Tagah was obviously deeply invested his entire life not just in sustaining his culture, but spreading it across the world through 'peaceable conquest', and he'll later use 'You ran away!' as a psychological bludgeon against Aang.

In this scene, Aang talks about how he fled, and how he feels responsiblef for what happened to their civilization, and Tagah just reassures him that the Air Nomads have returned to the 'eternal wind'. It's meant to be a 'their spirits live on' kind of moment, which is really sweet and reassuring... but that's not consisent with Tagah's character as we'll see him or how he's already explained himself.

Although I found his reaction to 'all the Air Nomads are dead' to be pretty weird, too. He doesn't even take a moment to process, he just instantly says "Oh but you have the staff, right?" As has been mentioned, the Air Nomads weren't just defined by being airbenders, there's an entire culture that was vaporized. If Tagah were just interested in the bending powers then maybe this would make sense, but he clearly had a deep loyalty to the culture and the principles of the Air Nomads. There should have been more of a reaction to either of these scenes, but the first one blitzes by because we have to keep the plot moving and the second feels was probably done the way it was to keep Tagah's heel turn a big twist.

Nightmares and Daydreams would've been the perfect opportunity, just make it an actual vision bleeding into Aang's dreams.

This makes so much sense it's frustrating.

 

[Trollblade69]

Took a screenshot of ImStillDissin's Twitter homepage because I think "didn't do anything wrong" is a hilarious thing to say when you're going the fuck to jail for being a wannabe wokescold.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Idk, i think he done a favor to the world releasing this forgettable piece of shit called movie.
Even a hentai movie or OVA like Bible Black had more consistency in the story. The difference is one being SFW and the other NSFW. Both have surprising animation at least.

 

[Neet Tokusatsu]

> They made this movie out of spite

I think it is actually worse than that, i think they're so incompetent they just made a Korra movie with ATLA's cast.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Because when you have characters at the height of their development, most villains simply don't provide any real threat, so you have to either make a villain that actually does

Ultimately I think this is a flaw inherent to the rules of the Avatar Univere

It's hard to justify a fully developed avatar as an underdog because once they master their powers they should be unbeatable.

Even the big name villains, like Ozai and Azula, only have 1/4 of the power and potential of an Avatar, and we are talking once in a generation prodigies.

ATLA sidestepped this Issue by making Aang still needing to learn all elements. And even then we did see him reach that OP level and beat Ozai.

I personally see nerfing as an unsatisfying solution.

As unsatisfying as seeing a movie about a boxer train to be the best, and hype him up, and then break their legs to make him feel as an underdog in the sequel, insted of giving him worthy rivals.

The ideal solution is that there should be villains that should be able to handle the avatar at their prime. But the rules of the universe makes this hard to justify because it is a hard rule that all other benders have far less potential, talent, and raw power than an Avatar.

You would need to compromise on this hard rule, or give threats that are above benders, like spirits. But instead they went with the lazy route of nerfing the avatar state and killing all the mysticism it once had.

 

[Incecticyder]

ATLA sidestepped this Issue by making Aang still needing to learn all elements. And even then we did see him reach that OP level and beat Ozai.

You can have the Avatar be less experienced in real combat but that is negated by the Avatar State. They are granted the experience of the previous lives then. You could have an antagonist powered up by a powerful spirit though.

I personally see nerfing as an unsatisfying solution.

As unsatisfying as seeing a movie about a boxer train to be the best, and hype him up, and then break their legs to make him feel as an underdog in the sequel, instead of giving him worthless rivals.

It can work like it did with the final fight in Gladiator. Have the bad guy cheat and we will cheer all the more in his defeat. The hero will look like an even better badass for it too.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Ultimately I think this is a flaw inherent to the rules of the Avatar Univere

It's hard to justify a fully developed avatar as an underdog because once they master their powers they should be unbeatable.

Even the big name villains, like Ozai and Azula, only have 1/4 of the power and potential of an Avatar, and we are talking once in a generation prodigies.

ATLA sidestepped this Issue by making Aang still needing to learn all elements. And even then we did see him reach that OP level and beat Ozai.

I personally see nerfing as an unsatisfying solution.

As unsatisfying as seeing a movie about a boxer train to be the best, and hype him up, and then break their legs to make him feel as an underdog in the sequel, instead of giving him worthless rivals.

The ideal solution is that there should be villains that should be able to handle the avatar at their prime. But the rules of the universe makes this hard to justify because it is a hard rule that all other benders have far less potential, talent, and raw power than an Avatar.

You would need to compromise on this hard rule, or give threats that are above benders, like spirits. But instead they went with the lazy route of nerfing the avatar state and killing all the mysticism it once had.

They could just drop the Avatar as a main character and have him be either neutral or controlled by the villain. It's not like there aren't examples of previous avatars either fucking up or not intervening due to neutrality.

 

[starborn427614]

The newest Avatar being both young and disabled might lead to some interesting match-ups, but given the current development team it's really a crapshoot at best.

 

[Incecticyder]

They could just drop the Avatar as a main character and have him be either neutral or controlled by the villain. It's not like there aren't examples of previous avatars either fucking up or not intervening due to neutrality.

No one wants Avatar without Avatar. If they can't write a story with the Avatar as a protagonist anymore due to whatever reason, then they shouldn't even try. The Avatar is the glue that keeps this mess together.

The newest Avatar being both young and disabled might lead to some interesting match-ups, but given the current development team it's really a crapshoot at best.

Yeah, I will not hold my breath for this "orgy of representation" to turn out to be the bees' knees.

 

[A ghoul teaching his son]

You can have the Avatar be less experienced in real combat but that is negated by the Avatar State. They are granted the experience of the previous lives then. You could have an antagonist powered up by a powerful spirit though.


It can work like it did with the final fight in Gladiator. Have the bad guy cheat and we will cheer all the more in his defeat. The hero will look like an even better badass for it too.

The only way you can make match against a fully realized Avatar would be to have the avatar either dealing with a huge force of nature or have them be temporarily nerfed, and they sort of did both already with Roku and Korra, although how Korra got captured and why she didn't break out was retarded. It would also have to very carefully planned/ contrived, and last only for a battle.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

No one wants Avatar without Avatar. If they can't write a story with the Avatar as a protagonist anymore due to whatever reason, then they shouldn't even try. The Avatar is the glue that keeps this mess together.

I'll argue that the avatar was mainly a plot hook and people watched the series for characters, fights (that were 99% mono element) and unique setting.

 

[Incecticyder]

The only way you can make match against a fully realized Avatar would be to have the avatar either dealing with a huge force of nature

Again, spirits. They should try them. Raava and Vaatu could bond with a human and gain power. Why not other strong spirits? A human and a spirit that want the same thing fuse and become a threat. There, easy.

have them be temporarily nerfed

That can and has worked. I have no faith in them anymore.

although how Korra got captured and why she didn't break out was retarded. It would also have to very carefully planned/ contrived, and last only for a battle.

Korra is an idiot. She is the one holding back the Avatar by being largely unworthy.

I'll argue that the avatar was mainly a plot hook and people watched the series for characters, fights (that were 99% mono element) and unique setting.

The Avatar is the star that everyone else revolves around. Everything happens because of them. Without the star, they might as well as be just rocks in the void. The characters are in a crusade for the Avatar. They encounter enemies that want to kill the Avatar and are strong enough to pull it off. If the story had to do with shit that didn't have to do with something of this great importance, there would be significantly less stakes. Certainly nothing that could sustain an entire epic. Remember, that world is culturally and spiritually revolving around the Avatar. Removing them creates a massive vacuum and nothing in that universe can serve as a substitute.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The Avatar is the star that everyone else revolves around. Everything happens because of them. Without the star, they might as well as be just rocks in the void. The characters are in a crusade for the Avatar. They encounter enemies that want to kill the Avatar and are strong enough to pull it off. If the story had to do with shit that didn't have to do with something of this great importance, there would be significantly less stakes. Certainly nothing that could sustain an entire epic. Remember, that world is culturally and spiritually revolving around the Avatar. Removing them creates a massive vacuum and nothing in that universe can serve as a substitute.

So why can't he be on the side of the villains? Or forced to stay neutral? I don't mean in some grand "subvert expectations" way, but the already set up concept that the avatars are unique individuals that can do mistakes or have personal bias.

 

[Incecticyder]

So why can't he be on the side of the villains? Or forced to stay neutral? I don't mean in some grand "subvert expectations" way, but the already set up concept that the avatars are unique individuals that can do mistakes or have personal bias.

First things first, the Avatar would suck all the attention. EVERY viewer would be more interested in them. Secondly, neutrality is boring. Unless the Avatar has his own goals that force them to interact, everyone would ask about him. Not to mention that it is the Avatar's duty to fight villains. Can't have them skip that. And lastly, an evil Avatar would be in conflict with the rest of the lives inside him. Possible to happen but any side that has a fully-realized Avatar has won already. A demigod with a team of geniuses is hard to beat as the villains find out. A demigod with an army is impossible to beat. Writing a story like that is one hell of a balancing act even for great writers.

Theoretically it is possible to write such stories but you probably can get better results with easier concepts.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Theoretically it is possible to write such stories but you probably can get better results with easier concepts.

Actually i made a story about neutrality; enough to understand why the tyranny of a autoritarism nation is valid and why corruption in democracy exists.
The best part is: there's already a civil war started by selfish & control reasons and ended in a nuclear explosion. The corruption in democracy leads to royalty dying and sparked another civil war.
Oh man, i'm already getting excited for continue my novel.

 

[Incecticyder]

Actually i made a story about neutrality; enough to understand why the tyranny of a autoritarism nation is valid and why corruption in democracy exists.
The best part is: there's already a civil war started by selfish & control reasons and ended in a nuclear explosion. The corruption in democracy leads to royalty dying and sparked another civil war.
Oh man, i'm already getting excited for continue my novel.

The Avatar would inevitably take sides. As any conflict escalates, it would reach him and his loved ones and he would choose. He might pick a side or decide to become a third one and obliterate the other two. Many would rally behind him as he is the Avatar. See what I mean? The Avatar attracts the story to himself.