Babylon 5 - A underrated sci-fi show.

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I liked it when I watched it about a year ago but man that final season felt rushed as fuck and it suffers greatly for it.

Edit: well fucked that up season 4 felt rushed and season 5 felt tacked on and I felt the lenier stuff to be just fucking strange
 
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I like B5 well enough, but even if DS9 (i.e. The best Star Trek) *did* rip it off- which is entirely possible. B5 is still fucking cursed.

Sinclair, G'Kar, Garibaldi, Dr. Franklin, Vir, Zack, Zathras, and plenty of others who were on this show have all died. Respectfully rest in peace. I still enjoyed the ride. :semperfidelis:
 
I liked it when I watched it about a year ago but man that final season felt rushed as fuck and it suffers greatly for it.

Edit: well fucked that up season 4 felt rushed and season 5 felt tacked on and I felt the lenier stuff to be just fucking strange
it's pretty easy to think season 4 was the last season
 
I liked it when I watched it about a year ago but man that final season felt rushed as fuck and it suffers greatly for it.

Edit: well fucked that up season 4 felt rushed and season 5 felt tacked on and I felt the lenier stuff to be just fucking strange
Season 4 should have just ended with just the Shadow war. Extend out that plot thread to just be season 4, which would be super easy to do with how much content you can milk from the shadow war as we saw DS9 do wonderfully with the dominion war, and end it with the original final episode of Season 4. Dragging it out with the shadow's "allies" was just nowhere near as threatening, entertaining or intellectually stimulating. Characters other than Mollari (the best character, fight me if you disagree) don't really have anywhere to go development wise and they just kind of meander or have massive character changes that make no sense (even Garabaldi's, fuck that stupid plot thread) to be quite honest.

Season 5 has like 2 good episodes that could have just been episodes in Season 4 during the shadow war in a perfect world. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world.
 
Season 4 should have just ended with just the Shadow war. Extend out that plot thread to just be season 4, which would be super easy to do with how much content you can milk from the shadow war as we saw DS9 do wonderfully with the dominion war, and end it with the original final episode of Season 4. Dragging it out with the shadow's "allies" was just nowhere near as threatening, entertaining or intellectually stimulating. Characters other than Mollari (the best character, fight me if you disagree) don't really have anywhere to go development wise and they just kind of meander or have massive character changes that make no sense (even Garabaldi's, fuck that stupid plot thread) to be quite honest.

Season 5 has like 2 good episodes that could have just been episodes in Season 4 during the shadow war in a perfect world. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world.
as far as I understand that was mostly the plan, but they got word Season 4 was going to be the end so they rushed everything and were only left with a giant pile of B Plot for Season 5 after they got renewed
 
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as far as I understand that was mostly the plan, but they got word Season 4 was going to be the end so they rushed everything and were only left with a giant pile of B Plot for Season 5 after they got renewed
Its better if it just ends with the shadow war though. The shadow's allies would do the same crap they did in season 4 (except hopefully better paced), just under the shadow's control. I don't see the reason to end the shadow war and downgrade your antagonists. It would have also allowed way more time to set up the Vorlons heel turn, better developed Mollari's rise to power and create a more believable set up the "Not Federation" that would appear after the war.

Its just an overall better decision if your pressed for time and can't make everything work (which they really couldn't).
 
I like B5 well enough, but even if DS9 (i.e. The best Star Trek) *did* rip it off- which is entirely possible. B5 is still fucking cursed.

Sinclair, G'Kar, Garibaldi, Dr. Franklin, Vir, Zack, Zathras, and plenty of others who were on this show have all died. Respectfully rest in peace. I still enjoyed the ride. :semperfidelis:
Sinclair was originally replaced because of the actor's mental issues, that JMS only disclosed after his passing. But I love the way they wrote an exit for the character turning Sinclaire into Valen.
 
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It's the Lord of the Rings in space, done right. Best TV show, period.

Has anyone else noticed a bunch of inexplicable Easter eggs, like the Amiga bouncing ball showing up in the window to the park (?) outside of a meeting hall, or anime battleships showing up in the Army of Light alliance battle scenes?
 
as far as I understand that was mostly the plan, but they got word Season 4 was going to be the end so they rushed everything and were only left with a giant pile of B Plot for Season 5 after they got renewed
It was. I never saw any of Season 5 until years after the fact because my family didn't have cable. I never felt like I missed anything aside from the series finale (Sleeping in Light) which was filmed during Season 4 and bumped after word of renewal came. I had bought Sleeping in Light at some point on VHS and never saw Season 5 until streaming services came along.
 
It was. I never saw any of Season 5 until years after the fact because my family didn't have cable. I never felt like I missed anything aside from the series finale (Sleeping in Light) which was filmed during Season 4 and bumped after word of renewal came. I had bought Sleeping in Light at some point on VHS and never saw Season 5 until streaming services came along.
Season 5 is mostly OK by Babylon 5 standards. The only thing that was truly , really bad about it was the extended Byron arc, which apparently only came about because IIRC JMS lost the outline to Season 5.
 
the season 4 conclusion was so unsatisfying and rushed that it actually made me take a 4 month delay for watching season 5 because JMS decided showing the viewers up to a million or so years in the future was apparently the best idea when you're potentially getting canceled and not lazy as fuck.

That was just something he threw together when the show got picked up by TNT and there was going to be another season. The REAL last episode Sleeping in Light was held back for the end of season 5. IF he didn't get another season then Sleeping in Light would have aired with season 4.
 
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Season 5 is mostly OK by Babylon 5 standards. The only thing that was truly , really bad about it was the extended Byron arc, which apparently only came about because IIRC JMS lost the outline to Season 5.
Byron was in the original outline, but Ivanova would've been the one to bang him as the rebound from Marcus. They actually cast Robin Atkin Downes specifically because he looked like Jason Carter. Claudia Christian's abrupt departure put the kibosh on that.

It still wouldn't have been great, but that was originally the plan. JMS did lose his original outline for Season 5 though. His notes were accidentally thrown away by a hotel cleaner and he couldn't find them again despite combing through the hotel's garbage for the past week.

Something I still marvel at is that Babylon 5 had the worst luck in terms of cast members leaving (how many other shows lose about half the original cast including the lead in the first year?), but JMS planned the thing out in such autistic detail that it feels like it was part of the plan all along. I know planning things out in excruciating detail in advance isn't always a good idea (look at How I Met Your Mother), but I wish more showrunners would follow that example (looking at you Battlestar Galactica and Lost).
 
Byron was in the original outline, but Ivanova would've been the one to bang him as the rebound from Marcus. They actually cast Robin Atkin Downes specifically because he looked like Jason Carter. Claudia Christian's abrupt departure put the kibosh on that.

It still wouldn't have been great, but that was originally the plan. JMS did lose his original outline for Season 5 though. His notes were accidentally thrown away by a hotel cleaner and he couldn't find them again despite combing through the hotel's garbage for the past week.

Something I still marvel at is that Babylon 5 had the worst luck in terms of cast members leaving (how many other shows lose about half the original cast including the lead in the first year?), but JMS planned the thing out in such autistic detail that it feels like it was part of the plan all along. I know planning things out in excruciating detail in advance isn't always a good idea (look at How I Met Your Mother), but I wish more showrunners would follow that example (looking at you Battlestar Galactica and Lost).
Even with his planning though, the only character he didn't create a "trapdoor" for (a character that is specifically created to replace another character in the event an actor is unable to reprise the role) in the season 1 finale was sinclair's actor and he was the only one who left. For completely understandable reasons, but its still shit luck.
 
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When I first watched this, I referred to the usenet posts after each episode to make sure I didn’t miss anything. Babylon 5 very slightly outranks DS9 in my sci-fi series pantheon as best series ever.
 
I was mildly offended by the special effects shots in the Bluray remaster of TNG being updated... but I think in the case of Babylon 5 I would welcome that approach (if we would ever be lucky enough to get a remaster of that). I remember catching a special on TV that (I think) aired after the pilot premiered showing how they made the AMAZING SPACESHIP SHOTS on fucking Video Toaster :story:
 
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I was mildly offended by the special effects shots in the Bluray remaster of TNG being updated... but I think in the case of Babylon 5 I would welcome that approach (if we would ever be lucky enough to get a remaster of that). I remember catching a special on TV that (I think) aired after the pilot premiered showing how they made the AMAZING SPACESHIP SHOTS on fucking Video Toaster :story:
I'd be fine with Video Toaster if it wasn't that shit cropjob for the boring shots
 
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I was mildly offended by the special effects shots in the Bluray remaster of TNG being updated... but I think in the case of Babylon 5 I would welcome that approach (if we would ever be lucky enough to get a remaster of that). I remember catching a special on TV that (I think) aired after the pilot premiered showing how they made the AMAZING SPACESHIP SHOTS on fucking Video Toaster :story:
There was some fuckery going on with the SFX. Essentially, it was something like the original SFX was in 4:3, but the 35mm reels were in 16:9. Unless you're going to buy the original VHS and LD releases (LD was spotty, only season 1, bits of season 2, and season 5) or have the old SVCD scene releases, it won't be so good. The DVDs are trash, btw.

https://b5books.com/2017/05/02/babylon-5-blu-ray-will-probably-never-happen/ this explains more

tl;dr HOLLYWOOD HATES JMS
 
That Cylon Plan meme hurts to this day. Let's plaster it on the opening credits but never come up with it.
No, they eventually "revealed" it. It was stupid.

Cavil decided to nuke humanity literally because FUCK YOU, DAD. No, he hated the Final Five and wanted to show them just how awful Humanity could be... after he tried to kill them all... and turned them into a cornered rat attacking the cat.
 
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