Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

[Corn Flakes]

I get the feeling the proofreading wasn't always the best

It's less proofreading not being up to par, and more writers having no sense of scale, economics, strategy, physics or even basic mathematics in general. Some of the writers at FASA were pretty autistic and able to do at least some of the necessary number-crunching, but by and large they were more interested in writing fun things like 'Mech fluff and story beats. So whenever anything even remotely related to actual hard figures came up they mostly just shrugged and said "i guess this sounds good lmao", and the proofreaders (also writers) just went "lol, lmao".

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

The issue I have with that is there are only so many Mech manufacturing plants out there and if WoB puts in an order for a special model, that's a line that can't be used for someone else's orders and someone somewhere would have wondered why WoB needs yet another Mech run here and one there and one over there when they already have Terra and all those plants.

It would be like me asking Toyota to shut down their US Tacoma factory and produce a special edition just for me. When no other Tacomas hit the market, somebody is going to look into it.

It's just WoB has too many resources at its disposal and too many things going its way and no one seems to care, not even C* ROM, WolfNet, the Capellans or Lyrans, both of whom have an interest in them considering that they are tight with the Mariks.

Had the Jihad kicked off without them whipping out hidden armies of cyborg warriors and Omnis and the ability to fire asteroids at worlds, maybe there wouldn't have been so much objection to the whole thing, but that's not how it went down.

Which brings up a different point: why didn't WoB just hit the Clans? Their whole point was the Clans were THE threat to humanity. So why not just ignore the IS and hit the Clans, even if they just hit the JF, GB, and Wolf Clans? Use their hidden armies and Mechs and cyborg warriors and drive them out of the IS once and for all instead of their temper tantrum. Or bypass the IS and surprise attack the Homeworld Clans. Wipe them out at their base and call it a day. Or hit the AMC in the Chaos March and just beat the Goons to dust, since they are Clan and not to be trusted. Why be coy about it until after the new First Lord is elected? Use the JF incursion during the FCCW as the casus belli. Even if nothing else that would gain WoB some real goodwill from the Lyrans, FRR, and DC if it shows WoB is willing to help liberate those IS worlds.

Funny thing: that was the long term goal. In fact, the Manei Domini were developed with the express purpose of countering Clan Elementals.

I see two problems though. One is that WoB was starting on the wrong side of the Inner Sphere. So it might make sense to try and take over and consolidate control over the I.S. first before tackling the Clans. Of course, most of the Inner Sphere was like, 'Yeah, hard pass on being ruled by toaster worshippers'.

The second -- and this is purely speculative -- is that the WoB may not have known where the Pentagon Worlds were. Which means they could push out the Clans, but they'd have a much harder time chasing them down and ending them for good.

And they DID pulp the Dragoons. Hard. Remember, they suborned multiple merc commands and staged an attack both from outside Outreach and inside it. I think the Dragoons were reduced to a reinforced battalion by the time the dust settled.

 

[William Murderface]

It's less proofreading not being up to par, and more writers having no sense of scale, economics, strategy, physics or even basic mathematics in general. Some of the writers at FASA were pretty autistic and able to do at least some of the necessary number-crunching, but by and large they were more interested in writing fun things like 'Mech fluff and story beats. So whenever anything even remotely related to actual hard figures came up they mostly just shrugged and said "i guess this sounds good lmao", and the proofreaders (also writers) just went "lol, lmao".

From the description it sounded more like that the word actually financed the development of new Mechs with the caveat that the first runs were sold to them exclusivley and then it would be open for everyone. Yes if I were the host nation I would also raise questions on how they are financing it or why they need so much. On the other hand if someone offers to finance Mech development on their own dime then who is the nation to look a gift horse in the mouth? Plus let's not forget how involved the Blakes were with the Free Worlds League: BA development, Omni fighter development etc. Comstar was never so deep into a nations military complex.

On the other hand just look how fast Comstar managed to pluck the holes in their roster after Tukayyid. The Guards lost 40% of their men and women on Tukayyid (and most likely many more due to defections) but they rebuild within 15 years to almost pre Tukayyid levels. How does that work? Especially when you loose Terra not even halfway through and almost every nation is rebuilding shattered forces. Probabaly the reason it's called FASAnomics. And another example: after the FedCom civil war both the AFFS and the LAAF were depleted. but the FM 3067 gave a much more rosy picture for the AFFS then the LAAF in terms of manpower of each unit (and that only after a few months after the war had ended) I get the feeling the proofreading wasn't always the best

I accept it's not EconomicTech: A Game of Resource Management in the 31st Century and the writers have kept numbers fuzzy forever (I think there's a passage or chart in either TRO: 3025 or House Davion about how many 'Mechs were produced a year and that was a close as FASA ever got to trying to give us hard numbers) and that's perfectly fine. I just wish there a little bit of logic behind it. If there are only X number of places in the IS that can make Mechs in the first place and each of them are putting out current models, old models, and entirely new designs all the time (because TROs have always been the game's best sellers), something just doesn't add up. Either add new Mech factories or say GM is no longer producing Maruaders at all on Kathil so they can produce SwordMech or something in the fluff.

I guess it's all academic though. WoB did what it did, the Jihad storyline came and went, the Dark Age, and now the collapse of the RotS has done the same, and there's a whole new storyline and details and illogical points for us to pick apart and roll our eyes at. We've been doing it since the 20 Year Update came out in 1988.

BattleTech: meet the new boss storyline, same as the old boss storyline.

Funny thing: that was the long term goal. In fact, the Manei Domini were developed with the express purpose of countering Clan Elementals.

I see two problems though. One is that WoB was starting on the wrong side of the Inner Sphere. So it might make sense to try and take over and consolidate control over the I.S. first before tackling the Clans. Of course, most of the Inner Sphere was like, 'Yeah, hard pass on being ruled by toaster worshippers'.

The second -- and this is purely speculative -- is that the WoB may not have known where the Pentagon Worlds were. Which means they could push out the Clans, but they'd have a much harder time chasing them down and ending them for good.

And they DID pulp the Dragoons. Hard. Remember, they suborned multiple merc commands and staged an attack both from outside Outreach and inside it. I think the Dragoons were reduced to a reinforced battalion by the time the dust settled.

WoB had to know exactly where the Clan Homeworlds were. Operation Serpent had been in 3060 and the Jihad had kicked off in Autumn 3067. Even if they hadn't gone with the fleet or it was made public knowledge afterwards, WoB ROM was so amazingly special and infallible that it had to have gotten the info from somewhere.

As far as the Goons go, I meant eliminated them even before Waco dropped on Outreach. Despite being Wolf's Dragoons and having their own factory and Clan Mechs and author protection, they were only five regiments. Even if it wasn't an out and out military action against them, with their declaration of defending the Chaos March against WoB, WoB could have just kept throwing small force after small force at the Goons and simply eroded them down to nothing long before Waco did his thing.

Herb said Waco's action wasn't prompted by WoB. It was going to happen and they were backing it by putting those other merc units on Outreach, ostensibly to be hired but in reality for the upcoming action, and Waco simply jumped the gun. Then the Goons went to Mars and were all but wiped out there because The Master just happened to be there at the time and thought they were there for him and that was one of the things that scared him into starting the whole Jihad, followed by telling Jamais to scare the IS states back to the SL 2.0 after the Whitting Conference.

Now, I have no problem with getting rid of the Goons. I never liked that they went from one regiment that showed up out of the blue to five and always seemed to rebuild better than they were before. I wish the Waco Rangers hadn't been wiped out because I liked them ever since I read the write up of them in the original Mercenary's Handbook. They could have been a cool foil to the Goons throughout the Jihad and DA instead of being erased on Day One of the Jihad, but that's water under the bridge. I just wish the writers had gone through with it and wiped them out once and for all on Mars instead of leaving them a core to rebuild from.

Now that would have been an event to kickstart the Jihad.

 

[Balr0g]

The WoB actually wnated to drive the Clans out of the Is too. Sure cutting of the head of the snake would be the best idea but then they would have to take on 14 Clans at once. The basic idea was to drive the Clans out of the IS and then eliminate them in the Homeworlds. I guess the thinking was "Eliminate the Invade clans first as those have to be the strongest then the rest" The Manei Domini weren't only a counter to the elemntals but also for the genetical superior Mechwarriors. Add to that that the Blakists had their VDMNI Interface strengthening their pilot skills. Of course in the end it would have ended in a genocide considering how they treated their Clan foes.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I accept it's not EconomicTech: A Game of Resource Management in the 31st Century and the writers have kept numbers fuzzy forever (I think there's a passage or chart in either TRO: 3025 or House Davion about how many 'Mechs were produced a year and that was a close as FASA ever got to trying to give us hard numbers) and that's perfectly fine. I just wish there a little bit of logic behind it. If there are only X number of places in the IS that can make Mechs in the first place and each of them are putting out current models, old models, and entirely new designs all the time (because TROs have always been the game's best sellers), something just doesn't add up. Either add new Mech factories or say GM is no longer producing Maruaders at all on Kathil so they can produce SwordMech or something in the fluff.

I guess it's all academic though. WoB did what it did, the Jihad storyline came and went, the Dark Age, and now the collapse of the RotS has done the same, and there's a whole new storyline and details and illogical points for us to pick apart and roll our eyes at. We've been doing it since the 20 Year Update came out in 1988.

BattleTech: meet the new boss storyline, same as the old boss storyline.

Yeah, we're not playing EconoTech but if you're going to give hard numbers you really should at least try to make it believable.

Ultimately, you are correct: it is what it is, and all we can do is bitch about it. On the other hand, BattleTech is a huge fucking setting, and there is literally nothing stopping someone from spending their entire BT career playing in the FedCom Civil War Era, or the late Third Succession War Era, or the Star League Era, if they really wanted to. BT is even more of a Your Dudes™ setting than 40k, so if you were exceptionally autistic you could backport later 'Mechs without much adjustment, or even write your own version of the setting where the Word of Blake Jihad was actually just a large-scale campaign of terrorism, assassination and insurgency instead of an open war and so the Republic of the Sphere is never created.

The possibilities are endless, really. As that fanmade book we've seen a few months ago made clear. You can go very deep into very narrow Eras in BT.

 

[William Murderface]

Yeah, we're not playing EconoTech but if you're going to give hard numbers you really should at least try to make it believable.

Ultimately, you are correct: it is what it is, and all we can do is bitch about it. On the other hand, BattleTech is a huge fucking setting, and there is literally nothing stopping someone from spending their entire BT career playing in the FedCom Civil War Era, or the late Third Succession War Era, or the Star League Era, if they really wanted to. BT is even more of a Your Dudes™ setting than 40k, so if you were exceptionally autistic you could backport later 'Mechs without much adjustment, or even write your own version of the setting where the Word of Blake Jihad was actually just a large-scale campaign of terrorism, assassination and insurgency instead of an open war and so the Republic of the Sphere is never created.

The possibilities are endless, really. As that fanmade book we've seen a few months ago made clear. You can go very deep into very narrow Eras in BT.

And there is nothing wrong with stopping the clock and never leaving a particular era. Nor is there anything wrong with sticking to the current era. Or to going your own way. I'm doing just that writing that sourcebook where Hanse and Melissa never marry. Despite ComStar's best efforts tech marches forwards (and not because of the Helm Core) so that by the end of it you do have all the toys the IS had in 3067, including BattleArmor. There isn't even anything wrong with just using the Mechs and ignoring the whole story of BattleTech and saying it's just the technology humans use to fight World War 12 and we never left Earth.

At the end of the day, it's all just a game, it's just supposed to be fun, and if you, me, or anyone else ends up tearing their hair out over what FASA, FanPro, WizKids, CGL, or anyone else wrote or writes, just ignore it. It's all make believe anyway, so who cares?

Personally, I'll keep buying the books and novels and whatnot and keep complaining that stuff doesn't make sense and the writers don't know what they're doing the same way I have been since I got into this game, because that's half the fun.

 

[RSU 1741]

In the end, one needs to ask: are the WoBbies interesting, as a faction? Their lore makes little sense and it "breaks" even the very limited internal logic of BTech's setting. They're however interesting. Much like the Clans are essentially humanoid aliens (their kultur so removed from the human baseline by an insane furry) the WoBbies are your Canticle For Leibowitz death cyborgs, and they make a fun faction to fuck around with even if their kit isn't stellar (Celestials are cool as fuck but notoriously kinda bad as Omnis). It's a pity they never got their "normie knowledge" moment, if I remember right they're only the baddies in MechAssault and the last expansion of Mechwarrior 4 teased them, while all the most recent vydia is too scared to move away from Grogtech/Clan Invasion because it's what people know.

As I said, it would be interesting to know what the original plan for them was was, but it's probably impossible and they were used to band-aid the RoTS and Dark Ages. I still find them interesting, and I wonder if we'll have a resurgence when we get to the inevitable Jihad Kickstarter in five-ten years (I'd pay to skip the Civil War era, but again, there's some sweet stuff even there).

 

[Corn Flakes]

The Blakists could be very interesting in a pen-and-paper RPG setting. In a game about stompy robots, some dude having a cybernetic gallbladder that allows him to piss neurotoxin is a lot less relevant when he's getting vaporized by a Smal Laser all the same.

Part of my problem with the Blakists is that since they went from "we're setting them up to be the new villains" to "they were villains during our massive timeskip, now they're fucked", all we're seeing about them is being written in hindsight. Very little of their BS stuck around long enough for us to get used to it. The Clans have been around long enough that even people who don't like them are familiar enough with their shit that they can make an informed guess on what any given Clan formation or piece of gear can do ("more powerful, more heat, less weight").

With the WoB, there's just no way to know. Post-FASA, the Word of Blake did whatever the writers required of them, no matter how outlandish. A faction without limitations becomes extremely uninteresting very quickly. See also: Clan Wolf.

 

[William Murderface]

In the end, one needs to ask: are the WoBbies interesting, as a faction? Their lore makes little sense and it "breaks" even the very limited internal logic of BTech's setting. They're however interesting. Much like the Clans are essentially humanoid aliens (their kultur so removed from the human baseline by an insane furry) the WoBbies are your Canticle For Leibowitz death cyborgs, and they make a fun faction to fuck around with even if their kit isn't stellar (Celestials are cool as fuck but notoriously kinda bad as Omnis). It's a pity they never got their "normie knowledge" moment, if I remember right they're only the baddies in MechAssault and the last expansion of Mechwarrior 4 teased them, while all the most recent vydia is too scared to move away from Grogtech/Clan Invasion because it's what people know.

As I said, it would be interesting to know what the original plan for them was was, but it's probably impossible and they were used to band-aid the RoTS and Dark Ages. I still find them interesting, and I wonder if we'll have a resurgence when we get to the inevitable Jihad Kickstarter in five-ten years (I'd pay to skip the Civil War era, but again, there's some sweet stuff even there).

I think WoB could have been interesting if they didn't go from just being a foil to secular ComStar to the behind the scenes baddie of the setting for the next 15 or so years. It still would have been a long road to hoe to make them worthwhile, but as soon as they took over FWL, had the fake Thomas revealed to us, and then had everything else go their way or were revealed to be behind everything they just got to be boring. It was kind of like how ComStar ended up being behind pretty much every mystery of the setting. After a while it just got to be passe'.

Now, had WoB actually lost here and there, that would have been something.

It would have been more interesting for the setting had WoB been fighting ComStar the whole time but limited to the shadows. HPGs keep going down and it's hurting interstellar trade and communications? WoB sabotage. FWL leaders get clipped? ComStar taking out WoB backers. ROM v. ROM. Even skip the obvious schism entirely and have it be a cabal of ComStar personnel that ROM can't quite ferret out. It's just a faction within the organization, but one that keeps screwing with secular ComStar's plans and agenda. Something beyond evil ComStar and everything goes their way until POOF, they're gone... or are they?

 

[William Murderface]

So folks are saying the MechWarrior cards in some of the newer box sets of minis have things like a non-binary in the ELH set and a lesbian in the Roughriders set. I can't confirm one way or the other since I don't have either set, but it wouldn't surprise me if the writers put their pet agendas in there just to tweak the noses of the vast majority of the fanbase that don't really want the, let's say, representation of [INSERT GROUP HERE] the modern world demands.

It does get under my skin when the writers make it a point to cram their politics into my escapist fun. I have enough politics jammed down my throat on a a daily basis and don't particularly enjoy having more of it in my little bit of make-believe and big, stompy robots.

 

[Corn Flakes]

>non-binary character
>gets vaporized by a Clan PPC to the head all the same
>headstone still reads "male"

Yeah, keep pushing them politics, you hacks.

 

[Moja Zemlja]

If we're going to be forced to have this shit keep it in Canopus where it belongs.

 

[Balr0g]

So folks are saying the MechWarrior cards in some of the newer box sets of minis have things like a non-binary in the ELH set and a lesbian in the Roughriders set. I can't confirm one way or the other since I don't have either set, but it wouldn't surprise me if the writers put their pet agendas in there just to tweak the noses of the vast majority of the fanbase that don't really want the, let's say, representation of [INSERT GROUP HERE] the modern world demands.

It does get under my skin when the writers make it a point to cram their politics into my escapist fun. I have enough politics jammed down my throat on a a daily basis and don't particularly enjoy having more of it in my little bit of make-believe and big, stompy robots.

Not to burst your bubble but Katana Tormark was a lesbian (or at the very least bi) And there are also other mentions of gay or lesbian mechwarriors throughout the lore books. That isn't new per se. Hopefully this won't get pushed down our throats in the future. Though a tranny Alaric would be something to laugh at.

 

[White Devil]

Not to burst your bubble but Katana Tormark was a lesbian (or at the very least bi) And there are also other mentions of gay or lesbian mechwarriors throughout the lore books. That isn't new per se. Hopefully this won't get pushed down our throats in the future. Though a tranny Alaric would be something to laugh at.

It's not the fact that there are faggots in the setting that upsets people. It's the fact that they write new ones and force them down our throats while making their sexuality their whole personalities.

Normal people do not do this, this is only a phenomon with homosexuals and troons.

 

[Corn Flakes]

It's not the fact that there are faggots in the setting that upsets people. It's the fact that they write new ones and force them down our throats while making their sexuality their whole personalities.

Normal people do not do this, this is only a phenomon with homosexuals and troons.

This. I don't care whether or not my MechWarrior munches rug or is uncomfortably fond of bratwurst. Unless it's relevant to the story (and the MechWarrior cards really don't tell much of a story), I don't want to know. It's irrelevant, and honestly it's the kind of information that works better when it's either implied, or transmitted visually.

 

[BlackDragoons]

The card in question just mentions a partner and thats about it.

 

[Corn Flakes]

The card in question just mentions a partner and thats about it.

Okay, so... I got over the knee-jerk reaction and actually looked up those MechWarrior cards. And I have one question there:

What's the point of these things, besides separating people from their money? Like, are modern players so damn unimaginative they can't come up with their own pilots? Because the ones I read don't even bring up interesting worldbuilding, some of them just look like someone just pulled phrases out of a hat.

 

[BlackDragoons]

Okay, so... I got over the knee-jerk reaction and actually looked up those MechWarrior cards. And I have one question there:

What's the point of these things, besides separating people from their money? Like, are modern players so damn unimaginative they can't come up with their own pilots? Because the ones I read don't even bring up interesting worldbuilding, some of them just look like someone just pulled phrases out of a hat.

Some of the cards have historical characters like Grayson "Death" Carlyle and a few others. The cards also have their stats and special skills they can use. I remember seeing Delmar Clays card and having his stats and having a special ability where if he punched a mech with an arm equipped with an AC/5 he is allowed to fire it off at the same time.

 

[William Murderface]

It's not the fact that there are faggots in the setting that upsets people. It's the fact that they write new ones and force them down our throats while making their sexuality their whole personalities.

Normal people do not do this, this is only a phenomon with homosexuals and troons.

And that's what really irks me. They kick Pardoe to the curb because someone who LARPed as a troon (try to wrap your brain around that one) said, amongst other things, Pardoe said bad things about the Alphabet people away from his duties as a BT writer, and he did but so what? Is he not entitled to an opinion? And the writers have intimated that despite knowing that the claims of the fake troon were false, the word came from on high (either Topps or Fanatics) that Pardoe's contract was not to be renewed. This is a guy who was helping develop and flesh out the BT universe when some of the current batch of writers weren't even alive. And some of the writers have said that they are glad he's gone because his politics and theirs don't match and he's not on the right side of history and they want to be all inclusive and diverse and equitable, despite most of their fanbase being older right leaning grognards and that their fanbase can take a hike if they don't like it.

I accept that homosexuals exist. I even accept that they are in the fiction. But it is the constant pushing it down our throats because people who aren't even involved with the game want it and companies fear the bad PR and the Twitter hashtag more than anything that ends up bringing these hobbies down. Companies know they won't gain more new customers than they lose from the Old Guard, but will not stand up and say "our policy is leave your politics behind at the game table and writing desk, but we will not be bullied by people who have nothing to do with us now."

iowahawkblog was right when he tweeted:

1. Identify a respected institution.
2. kill it.
3. gut it.
4. wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect.​

They did it to D&D, they're doing it now to 40k, and thanks to MWO and HBS games bringing attention to the game, they've decided BT will be the next head they mount on the wall.

 

[Moja Zemlja]

Some of the cards have historical characters like Grayson "Death" Carlyle and a few others. The cards also have their stats and special skills they can use. I remember seeing Delmar Clays card and having his stats and having a special ability where if he punched a mech with an arm equipped with an AC/5 he is allowed to fire it off at the same time.

The problem is that nothing they use is unique to the cards, you could make way more interesting gimmick baddies just having a look through the SPAs yourself.