Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

[Corn Flakes]

So... are IS-spec pulse lasers worth it?
Is the boost to the to-hit number on short ranges worth the worse range, especially given that the maximum range of pulse lasers is equal to the medium range of non-pulse lasers and thus at (say) a range of 6, the medium pulse laser has the same to-hit as the medium laser, but the medium still has its long-range bracket to spare?

I guess it all comes down to engagement ranges, but I feel like any mech that isn't tailor made to be an urban brawler that gets up in the enemy's face, a regular medium laser is a better choice.

Don't think of IS MPLs as Medium Laser-equivalents. Think of them as Large Laser equivalents for brawlers. Two Medium Pulse Lasers give you a granular 12 damage and a -2 to-hit bonus in exchange for 8 heat and 4 tons. A large laser gives you 8 damage and no to-hit bonus in exchange for 8 heat and 5 tons. Sure, you could fit three normal Medium Lasers and get 15 damage for 9 heat (the ML is the yardstick all weapons are measured against for a reason), but you miss out on that to-hit bonus too. And that bonus is deceptively useful.

The MPL's to-hit bonus isn't really meant to offset range, it's meant to offset movement. A 'Mech that's dancing around in urban combat is likely to be dipping into their running MP pretty often, either to get to punching range of the target, or to maneuver to counter someone trying to slot in for a rear armor shot. At these ranges you're going to have no range penalty anyway. In fact, there is no better weapon to perform the classic "Surprise, Motherfucker!" maneuver: jumping over a piece of terrain and landing right behind some fool. That worrying +3 penalty for firing after jumping becomes a much more acceptable +1 when you're using Pulse Lasers.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I see.

I was just wondering since the ML weighs in at .5t and the MPL at 2t, meaning you could get 2 MLs and 3 DHS (rendering the MLs heat neutral) for the same tonnage as a pair of MPLs, which would net you 10 DMG without creating heat at 9 hexes compared to 12 Damage creating 8 heat at 6 hexes.
Seems like it is most useful on urban brawlers to use MPLs whereas MLs are a decent choice for anything that attempts to stick to longer ranges of engagements. Though in that case, I assume pulse lasers act as deterrent for enemies to get too close, too, so they are still a good choice.

A slow mech that fights other slow mechs at a range of 5 to 10 hexes would be better off with MLs while the MPL is better on anything involving shorter ranges and faster speeds.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I see.

I was just wondering since the ML weighs in at .5t and the MPL at 2t, meaning you could get 2 MLs and 3 DHS (rendering the MLs heat neutral) for the same tonnage as a pair of MPLs, which would net you 10 DMG without creating heat at 9 hexes compared to 12 Damage creating 8 heat at 6 hexes.
Seems like it is most useful on urban brawlers to use MPLs whereas MLs are a decent choice for anything that attempts to stick to longer ranges of engagements. Though in that case, I assume pulse lasers act as deterrent for enemies to get too close, too, so they are still a good choice.

A slow mech that fights other slow mechs at a range of 5 to 10 hexes would be better off with MLs while the MPL is better on anything involving shorter ranges and faster speeds.

Heads up: the standard Medium Laser is 1 ton.

Anyway, Medium Lasers are gap fillers. If you've got a couple spare tons after weapons and armor, and you've got the heat capacity to spare, just add MLs to round out the tonnage. Can't go wrong with the good ol' MedLas. Like most weapon variants added post 3025, Medium Pulse Lasers are meant to be used more purposefully: either as a holdout weapon on a long-range 'Mech since anything coming close is likely to be really close to exploit your minimum range, or as a deceptively reliable workhorse for brawlers and close-range skirmishers. That -2 effectively means the weapon deals more than the 6 damage stated because at close range it will be hitting and dealing damage more often than a weapon without that bonus.

And remember, kids: lurm spam is fun, but even with ClanTech the game is weighed harder towards brawling. If you're playing your matches on Planet Cueball, where the ranges are long and the sightlines plenty, you're doing it wrong.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Heads up: the standard Medium Laser is 1 ton.

Whoopsie. Sarna says 500kg, I withdraw my statement.

If you're playing your matches on Planet Cueball, where the ranges are long and the sightlines plenty, you're doing it wrong.

Everybody knows Planet Cueball is only fun when you're playing with severe weather effects.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Whoopsie. Sarna says 500kg, I withdraw my statement.

You were probably looking at the BattleArmor Medium Laser. For some reason these are lighter. Something something doesn't need to be plugged to the cooling system something something...

Anyway, since we're here (and since I'm already doing spreadsheets for work today), I took a couple minutes to check the actual probabilities between 2 x Medium Pulse Lasers and 3 x Medium Lasers, using MechWarrior Johndoe McGenericson's Gunnery 4 as an example. Behold, mild autism:

Spoiler: Numbers, reeeeeeeee

The average damage was calculated as total damage (12 for the MPLs, 15 for the MLs) multiplied by the to-hit chance. Since this is just a simple average, it's not important to calculate the odds of each shot hitting, because they're all independent from one another. On the other hand, since it's 2 shots for the Pulse Lasers and 3 for the Medium Lasers, the distribution curve would be smoother for the Medium Lasers, with more shooting phases landing closer to the average for the range bracket. If you really wanted to get into the weeds, the MPL probably gains a slight advantage from only being two shots instead of three.

Another thing to notice is that 2d6 or higher has severe diminishing returns as the to-hit number drops. So Pulse Lasers become much better the higher the to-hit number. A Gunnery Skill 5 MechWarrior will get a lot more mileage out of Pulse Lasers than a Gunnery Skill 3 MechWarrior in the same situation, for example. Of course, the Gunnery Skill 3 MechWarrior will be able to land tricky/long range shots considerably more often with Pulses compared to standard lasers.

So yeah. Interesting how they leapfrog one another depending on the range bracket.

 

[Techpriest]

You were probably looking at the BattleArmor Medium Laser. For some reason these are lighter. Something something doesn't need to be plugged to the cooling system something something...

Anyway, since we're here (and since I'm already doing spreadsheets for work today), I took a couple minutes to check the actual probabilities between 2 x Medium Pulse Lasers and 3 x Medium Lasers, using MechWarrior Johndoe McGenericson's Gunnery 4 as an example. Behold, mild autism:

Spoiler: Numbers, reeeeeeeee

View attachment 2750310

View attachment 2750311

View attachment 2750312

The average damage was calculated as total damage (12 for the MPLs, 15 for the MLs) multiplied by the to-hit chance. Since this is just a simple average, it's not important to calculate the odds of each shot hitting, because they're all independent from one another. On the other hand, since it's 2 shots for the Pulse Lasers and 3 for the Medium Lasers, the distribution curve would be smoother for the Medium Lasers, with more shooting phases landing closer to the average for the range bracket. If you really wanted to get into the weeds, the MPL probably gains a slight advantage from only being two shots instead of three.

Another thing to notice is that 2d6 or higher has severe diminishing returns as the to-hit number drops. So Pulse Lasers become much better the higher the to-hit number. A Gunnery Skill 5 MechWarrior will get a lot more mileage out of Pulse Lasers than a Gunnery Skill 3 MechWarrior in the same situation, for example. Of course, the Gunnery Skill 3 MechWarrior will be able to land tricky/long range shots considerably more often with Pulses compared to standard lasers.

So yeah. Interesting how they leapfrog one another depending on the range bracket.

The true big dick king of the pulse laser world is the clan Large Pulse Laser, hands down. It’s a PPC with a negative to hit modifier, slightly better range, weighs a ton less, and takes up one less critical slot. It’s such crazy bullshit.

 

[Corn Flakes]

The true big dick king of the pulse laser world is the clan Large Pulse Laser, hands down. It’s a PPC with a negative to hit modifier, slightly better range, weighs a ton less, and takes up one less critical slot. It’s such crazy bullshit.

Oh, yeah. Clan gear is just plain busted.

I'd do a table comparing the IS MPL to the Clan MPL just for shits and giggles, but I'm done spreadsheeting for today. Had some shit from work I couldn't finish yesterday, but now the wife is badgering me to go buy shit for tonight. Happy Thanksgiving, MechWarriors! Go roast yourselves a nice juicy Turkina. I personally recommend using a Nova with ER Flamers.

And if you're not American... well, have a nice Thursday. Go roast a Jade Falcon anyway.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Oh come on, having a -2 on a 10 DMG LPL that outranges even an ER Large Laser, that's totally fair.

 

[StevieLasVegas]

Thinking of hitting up IWM's sale for some Battletech minis to have a side lance of Taurians to go with my Steiner one. That way if my local game store starts allowing games again, I can at least provide someone a lance to play with, also because I like the Taurian Concordat. Probably gonna go for an Anubis, a Huron Warrior, a Marauder and a Devastator.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Thinking of hitting up IWM's sale for some Battletech minis to have a side lance of Taurians to go with my Steiner one. That way if my local game store starts allowing games again, I can at least provide someone a lance to play with, also because I like the Taurian Concordat. Probably gonna go for an Anubis, a Huron Warrior, a Marauder and a Devastator.

You might be the first person I've ever seen considering a Huron Warrior.

There's not even anything too awful about it, it's a pretty decent sniper for its size. But that goddamn goofy decorative fan just makes me laugh every time I look at it.

Kudos for thinking about potential newbies and bringing in more than one lance. That's a Chad move right there.

 

[StevieLasVegas]

You might be the first person I've ever seen considering a Huron Warrior.

There's not even anything too awful about it, it's a pretty decent sniper for its size. But that goddamn goofy decorative fan just makes me laugh every time I look at it.

Kudos for thinking about potential newbies and bringing in more than one lance. That's a Chad move right there.

If Clanners can get away with the weird landing pads/hats on their mechs, I can enjoy a goofy fan.

May one day revive my old RogueTech Taurian lance; the LRM Hunchback, a Trebuchet, a Phoenix Hawk and a Blackjack. Have the Hunchback & Trebuchet lay a shitton of mines in front of the enemy while the Phoneix Hawk & Blackjack pick them off as their legs get fucked.

 

[BlackDragoons]

The true big dick king of the pulse laser world is the clan Large Pulse Laser, hands down. It’s a PPC with a negative to hit modifier, slightly better range, weighs a ton less, and takes up one less critical slot. It’s such crazy bullshit.

Clan tech is bullshit. I love it.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Thinking of hitting up IWM's sale for some Battletech minis to have a side lance of Taurians to go with my Steiner one. That way if my local game store starts allowing games again, I can at least provide someone a lance to play with, also because I like the Taurian Concordat. Probably gonna go for an Anubis, a Huron Warrior, a Marauder and a Devastator.

If you want to add some particularly Taurian spice to your Periphery lance, contemplate getting a Marshal too.
It's one of the few original Taurian designs, it does actually look kinda neat, is reasonably mobile at 4/6/4 and the weapons loadout is okay too.


Oh. And it has a flamer in its crotch.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

If you want to add some particularly Taurian spice to your Periphery lance, contemplate getting a Marshal too.
It's one of the few original Taurian designs, it does actually look kinda neat, is reasonably mobile at 4/6/4 and the weapons loadout is okay too.

View attachment 2755391
Oh. And it has a flamer in its crotch.

If you're going to get a Marshal, you may as well get 4 an paint them horse colors.

Actually, just do that in general, because Fronc Reaches best faction.

 

[StevieLasVegas]

If you want to add some particularly Taurian spice to your Periphery lance, contemplate getting a Marshal too.
It's one of the few original Taurian designs, it does actually look kinda neat, is reasonably mobile at 4/6/4 and the weapons loadout is okay too.

View attachment 2755391
Oh. And it has a flamer in its crotch.

Dick flamethrowers are pretty boss, not gonna lie and I'm surprised it isn't standard in most Canopus mechs. One Taurian mech I wish they sold separately is the Cadaver. For some reason, it's only available in a bundle with three other mechs including the Mortis.

 

[BlackDragoons]

If your looking for a good brawler, the Marauder-5M is actually a really good one. Produced late its equipped with two Large Pulse Lasers, two medium pulse lasers and an LB-10-X with four jump jets for maneuverability. Gots an XL 300 engine with 16 double heat sinks to keep the monster cool even when you decide to launch an alpha strike into the rear end of a Atlas.

 

[Corn Flakes]

If your looking for a good brawler, the Marauder-5M is actually a really good one. Produced late its equipped with two Large Pulse Lasers, two medium pulse lasers and an LB-10-X with four jump jets for maneuverability. Gots an XL 300 engine with 16 double heat sinks to keep the monster cool even when you decide to launch an alpha strike into the rear end of a Atlas.

That Inner Sphere XL makes brawling a little chancy. Even with all the armor on a Marauder, putting an Extralight on an Inner Sphere heavy turns every engagement into a damage race.

Thankfully, with all those pulse lasers, a shotgun and jump capability the 5M can land some ungodly rear arc damage on anyone foolish enough to get within 4 hexes. And remember those numbers I was sperging about just two days ago? The ones that mentioned how good Pulse Lasers are on jumping 'Mechs? Yeah, it's like the 5M was made to shove those barrels up its target's tailpipe.

 

[Techpriest]

If your looking for a good brawler, the Marauder-5M is actually a really good one. Produced late its equipped with two Large Pulse Lasers, two medium pulse lasers and an LB-10-X with four jump jets for maneuverability. Gots an XL 300 engine with 16 double heat sinks to keep the monster cool even when you decide to launch an alpha strike into the rear end of a Atlas.

The 5M is an interesting beast. There’s something to say too about swapping the LPL’s out for two ERLL’s and enjoying your nasty brawler/sniper hybrid and putting in an extra two DHS and/or more armor or ammo

 

[BlackDragoons]

That Inner Sphere XL makes brawling a little chancy. Even with all the armor on a Marauder, putting an Extralight on an Inner Sphere heavy turns every engagement into a damage race.

Thankfully, with all those pulse lasers, a shotgun and jump capability the 5M can land some ungodly rear arc damage on anyone foolish enough to get within 4 hexes. And remember those numbers I was sperging about just two days ago? The ones that mentioned how good Pulse Lasers are on jumping 'Mechs? Yeah, it's like the 5M was made to shove those barrels up its target's tailpipe.

The 5M is an interesting beast. There’s something to say too about swapping the LPL’s out for two ERLL’s and enjoying your nasty brawler/sniper hybrid and putting in an extra two DHS and/or more armor or ammo

While I quiet enjoyed the 5M and it being a deadly force the real god is the 5T variant which replaces the LB-10-X with a fracking RAC/5 for that DAKKA feeling, it also adds an additional jump jet as well as a targeting computer which pretty much nullifies its jump penalty when it comes to shooting those pulse lasers. Oh did I mention its got a RAC/5? Also its more heavily armored then the 5M allowing it to take more of a whopping.

 

[Techpriest]

While I quiet enjoyed the 5M and it being a deadly force the real god is the 5T variant which replaces the LB-10-X with a fracking RAC/5 for that DAKKA feeling, it also adds an additional jump jet as well as a targeting computer which pretty much nullifies its jump penalty when it comes to shooting those pulse lasers. Oh did I mention its got a RAC/5? Also its more heavily armored then the 5M allowing it to take more of a whopping.

The 5T is pretty fantastic, but I raise you a marauder with an LGR, two ERLL and 2 ERML. Standard fusion, endo and ferro, plus DHS. Talk about a sniper.