Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

[William Murderface]

Of all the things invented by the Jihad, Dark Age, and its FASA-years run up, the Blackout, the Wall, and the Super-Jump (the Immortal Spirit) are the two most world-breaking in my opinion. Pocket warships were just a means to an end (that end being once again eliminating warships from the setting), and I understand the reasoning. I don't agree with the reasoning, but I understand the reasoning. As stupid as the superheavy 'Mechs and Tripods are, I can live with them. WoB and their hidden worlds where they had factories and a brainwashed populace willing to turn themselves into cyberzombies for the Jihad and hidden armies and not even the First Circuit knew about it was eyerollingly bad handwavium, but alright. Even the insulting "but they've been skimming off of the FWL's economy for years and no one noticed" was dumb, but okay.

But taking a convention of the setting, that jumps are up to 30ly long, and then saying "well, actually..." and "by the way, we can also set up a force field" just changes everything. Oh, the Wall just requires burning up jump cores? So what? You can always make more or buy them on the open market and there will always be shipyards making them and older jumpships to salvage them from." Oh, you can now jump up to 900ly but it's a one way trip? Fine, that ship is expendable. Suddenly HPGs (and Black Boxes) don't work and we never get an explanation to who caused it? That's okay. It isn't like you're going to have whole systems break away or anything.

 

[Balr0g]

Yeah that bugged me too. I can somehow understand the HPG's not working as that IS a scenario that fucks over the IS (and those who have read Wars of Reaving already know that something similar happened to the Clans who are even more dependent on instant communication then the IS) but funny thing is that the Black Boxes were still working when they began the Dark Age. Then suddenly "Oh those don't work anymore" Wait what? How? This feels like a shift of authors who didn't cxare about the previous setup.

Also there is one thing about the SuperJump: there are two versions of it. The ones developed by the blakists is the one way t icket to hell. And then there is the one made by the Stelffelbus family: it also has an extended range but there are safeguards to prevent a burnout of the KF core. Though that was also written out of existence or rather removed by a convenient plot devie aka the Word of Blake.

The Wall also is somewthing I can't really wrap my head around. while it is interesting in itself it was never really explained HOW this technology actually was developed. The Jihad sourcebooks gave hints about KF torpedoes or HPG canons but the Wall was never emntioned. It makes sense to give it a time limit because otherwise the Fortress would stay forever while the rest of the IS beats itself to death (would be an interesting concept though: The Republic coming back after hundreds of years and only finding cavemen)
but as you say KF cores can be produced (though in this case convenient plot device "Titan Yards were never rebuild" comes into play) for a slong as you have access to Germanium.

What irked me the most was the Rebulics final battle as Terra fell way too easy. You tell me the Republic uses Mech drones but didn't bother to make actual Drone pocket warships or fighters to shore up their defenses? Or heck actually reactivate all the real Castle Brians that dot Terra (there should be 5-6 left)? In addition: the Repuzblic has the nuclear stockpiles they salvaged from the Word of Blake. Why not use it in the space battle or at least against the Mongol Falcons? Malvina certainly needed a dose of her own medicine.

 

[William Murderface]

I wouldn't have had a problem with the superjump if it had been a case of the Immortal Spirit misjumping to where the Angela Franks was and saying "this isn't where we're supposed to be, but we can't leave any witnesses" and they inadvertently jumped halfway across the Inner Sphere or something in the process. I just disliked the whole "WoB had yet another superduper piece of equipment because of course they do." I do realize that at least part of the whole thing (the Blackout and the Wall) came from Weisman's MWDA setting and it was left to the writers to figure out afterwards how it worked, but at least some of WoB's shenanigans and goings on were FASA, so the blame isn't entirely on him.

But I agree completely with the fall of Terra was handled ineptly, like all the Republican generals forgot they had those weapons handy. Between that and the Republican navy folding like a newspaper, it was almost like the writers just wanted to get to the meaty party of the book, which was the 'Mech battles. "The Wolves jump into the system, then stuff happens, then the ground battles started. Let's begin."

ilClan TRO Vol. 31 just came out and there's a Savannah Master in it.

That alone makes it worth the purchase price.

 

[Corn Flakes]

ilClan TRO Vol. 31 just came out and there's a Savannah Master in it.

That alone makes it worth the purchase price.

What, did they make a new version of the Suicide Sled, or is it just one of those "for modern audiences" thing where they just give it a new image?

 

[Balr0g]

The Savannah Master had two versions afaik

One with the Medium Lase (the standard version) and the other was an interdictor version: no weapons, heavy ferrofibrous armor and ECM. What would that third version be?

 

[William Murderface]

This one has a ERML and Reflective Armor. It has a new drawing in the manual in the current aesthetic, but in my mind it will always look like it did in TRO 3026.

It's odd that it's a unit pretty much loved by everyone in the game, but it only has a total of four variants. Meanwhile, there are 'Mechs I can't even name from a picture with over a dozen variants.

The Savannah Master had two versions afaik

One with the Medium Lase (the standard version) and the other was an interdictor version: no weapons, heavy ferrofibrous armor and ECM. What would that third version be?

There's a dual SL version. This one makes the forth version according to MUL.

 

[Balr0g]

This one has a ERML and Reflective Armor. It has a new drawing in the manual in the current aesthetic, but in my mind it will always look like it did in TRO 3026.

It's odd that it's a unit pretty much loved by everyone in the game, but it only has a total of four variants. Meanwhile, there are 'Mechs I can't even name from a picture with over a dozen variants.

To be fair you can't really modify the Savannah Master. A light or XL engine is basically useless. What you could is an armor upgrade and replace the standard with an ER laser. The one with the 2 smal lasers isn't exactly the best idea when you realize just how close you have to get to hit. This is not a Charger

 

[Corn Flakes]

This one has a ERML and Reflective Armor. It has a new drawing in the manual in the current aesthetic, but in my mind it will always look like it did in TRO 3026.

It's odd that it's a unit pretty much loved by everyone in the game, but it only has a total of four variants. Meanwhile, there are 'Mechs I can't even name from a picture with over a dozen variants.

That's vehicles for ya.

In fairness, I'm actually fine with meme units not having too many variants, or having only memorable variants. As much as I love the Marauder, I can't bring myself to care about the 20-something models on the market. The Urbie, on the other hand? A few variants are kinda "meh", but the trashcan-with-a-gun loadout scheme has given us some fun memorable models. Like the AC/20 version, or the MRM-30 version, or the AIV Nuclear Urbie. So the Savannah Master being fairly uniform in its variants is actually nice. Keeps it true to its role as the Inner Sphere's premiere "wait, I skidded how many hexes in that turn?" machine. Sometimes being small and not having that much tonnage to play with is a blessing.

 

[William Murderface]

To be fair you can't really modify the Savannah Master. A light or XL engine is basically useless. What you could is an armor upgrade and replace the standard with an ER laser. The one with the 2 smal lasers isn't exactly the best idea when you realize just how close you have to get to hit. This is not a Charger

Oh I know, but it would be easy enough to strip out the ML for a flamer, or a C3 slave, or the ML and half a ton of armor for a Beagle Probe, C3i, ECM, or TAG if you're playing with 3067 equipment.

 

[Moja Zemlja]

Oh I know, but it would be easy enough to strip out the ML for a flamer, or a C3 slave, or the ML and half a ton of armor for a Beagle Probe, C3i, ECM, or TAG if you're playing with 3067 equipment.

A C3 slave on a hover that moves as fast as it possibly can is a quick way to get people angry at you.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Now that I think about it, a Savannah Master with Reflective armor sounds like an incredibly dumb idea. The thing barely even has any armor to begin with, and now whatever little armor is there is only half as effective when it crashes into something? Let's hope that cockpit also comes with improved airbags.

I like that different armor types are an option in BT, but Ferro-Fibrous aside they often feel like more effort than they are worth. And even FF is an iffy proposition since Endo Steel is almost guaranteed to give you better tonnage savings.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

But taking a convention of the setting, that jumps are up to 30ly long, and then saying "well, actually..." and "by the way, we can also set up a force field" just changes everything. Oh, the Wall just requires burning up jump cores? So what? You can always make more or buy them on the open market and there will always be shipyards making them and older jumpships to salvage them from." Oh, you can now jump up to 900ly but it's a one way trip? Fine, that ship is expendable. Suddenly HPGs (and Black Boxes) don't work and we never get an explanation to who caused it? That's okay. It isn't like you're going to have whole systems break away or anything.

While I agree the Wall overall was silly, you're a little off here. The economics aren't specified in the sourcebooks or novels, but there's enough comments for me to guess that the Republic couldn't sustain the Wall indefinitely, because it literally could not manufacture K-F cores fast enough. Hour of the Wolf notes that there were numerous JumpShips basically stuck in parking orbits, their K-F cores removed to fuel the Wall even as it was shrunk down to just Terra.

It's also an indictment of hard-defensive line thinking. The Wall was basically the Maginot Line of the 32nd century.

The superjump is just bullshit though. No argument there. And Dominion Divided just sounds like an absolute trainwreck. I cannot WAIT to see what my BT grognard buddies have to say about it (probably nothing good).

Inserting expies of modern political figures is just the cherry on the shit sundae. Really, Catalyst? Who wrote this trash?

 

[William Murderface]

Now that I think about it, a Savannah Master with Reflective armor sounds like an incredibly dumb idea. The thing barely even has any armor to begin with, and now whatever little armor is there is only half as effective when it crashes into something? Let's hope that cockpit also comes with improved airbags.

I like that different armor types are an option in BT, but Ferro-Fibrous aside they often feel like more effort than they are worth. And even FF is an iffy proposition since Endo Steel is almost guaranteed to give you better tonnage savings.

I would agree if I were Min/Max-ing a design, but those are boring. I like the idea of a Suicide Sled that can't do the thing it's known for in the game: charging attacks. Now it's good for getting in rear arcs and hitting with the ERML and running away to do it again the next turn, or die trying. I could even see a CHH version of it that strips out the ML for a HML just because of the hilarity of having one that gets in a Heavy or Assault 'Mech's rear arc and stays there and wears down the armor to nothing. And all for a whopping 305 BV.

Of course, I just like anytime less visible units get some attention, even if the design choices make me scratch my head and say "what were they thinking?"

While I agree the Wall overall was silly, you're a little off here. The economics aren't specified in the sourcebooks or novels, but there's enough comments for me to guess that the Republic couldn't sustain the Wall indefinitely, because it literally could not manufacture K-F cores fast enough. Hour of the Wolf notes that there were numerous JumpShips basically stuck in parking orbits, their K-F cores removed to fuel the Wall even as it was shrunk down to just Terra.

It's also an indictment of hard-defensive line thinking. The Wall was basically the Maginot Line of the 32nd century.

Fair enough.

The superjump is just bullshit though. No argument there. And Dominion Divided just sounds like an absolute trainwreck. I cannot WAIT to see what my BT grognard buddies have to say about it (probably nothing good).

Inserting expies of modern political figures is just the cherry on the shit sundae. Really, Catalyst? Who wrote this trash?

What irks me isn't that it was written and submitted, but that it wasn't killed by the line developer or assistant line developer. Someone had to read that stuff and say "yeah, sure, we'll go with that. It'll be great!"

It reminds me of a Shadowrun sourcebook from a few years back called War! Amongst other things in the book was a plot hook where players could dungeon crawl through Aushwitz to find the scalpel of a Dr. Mengele stand-in and fight ghosts.

And it made it to being printed and sold. At no point did anyone in the process think "man, WW2 is still in living memory, SR is big in Germany, some of our players lost family in those camps, and it's just a real sensitive subject. Maybe, just maybe, we should not do this particular idea go any further."

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

What irks me isn't that it was written and submitted, but that it wasn't killed by the line developer or assistant line developer. Someone had to read that stuff and say "yeah, sure, we'll go with that. It'll be great!"

It reminds me of a Shadowrun sourcebook from a few years back called War! Amongst other things in the book was a plot hook where players could dungeon crawl through Aushwitz to find the scalpel of a Dr. Mengele stand-in and fight ghosts.

And it made it to being printed and sold. At no point did anyone in the process think "man, WW2 is still in living memory, SR is big in Germany, some of our players lost family in those camps, and it's just a real sensitive subject. Maybe, just maybe, we should not do this particular idea go any further."

It just mystifies me that the Dominion has what amounts to almost a full century to integrate to the point where it's actually a functioning hybrid Clan/IS society, and then the writers say, 'LOL they kill each other.'

With the Clan whose ideals espouse unity and family. That Clan.

Comment seen on the official forum: but as it is, it's like a writer said "the Bears need a civil war, who cares if it makes sense"

 

[Moja Zemlja]

I like that different armor types are an option in BT, but Ferro-Fibrous aside they often feel like more effort than they are worth. And even FF is an iffy proposition since Endo Steel is almost guaranteed to give you better tonnage savings.

FF is great for vehicles since its one of the few ways of weight saving and refitting a mech with FF is much simpler and quicker than endo.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

The more I examine it the less sense it makes. Sure, Motstand (the Rasalhague independence movement) was still around, but they'd been straight up broken in 3125. Absolutely fucked and reduced to being verbal pains in the asses, handing out literature.

If they'd still been militant then sure, I could buy them screwing the deal -- but by 3150 they were probably reduced to cranks that the warrior caste would laugh about on the Dominion Chatterweb. How do you say 'lolcow' in Swedenese, and do the Clans have an equivalent term?

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The whole Bear Civil War is a perfect example of writing backwards; you start with an end result (the Bears joining the Ilkhanate) and then write backwards to get to that point, no matter how little sense it makes. Its textbook bad writing. This is problem of having a tabletop game with a metaplot as long running and involved as this one. It eventually starts to fall in on itself as the great writers that established it are run out or replaced by shitty writers who have no idea what they are doing half the time.

 

[Balr0g]

From the lore I know the Bears only had problems with their populations when they integrated the Republic remnants during the Jihad (this breathed new life into the Motstand as several soldiers who "tested out" joined giving them a boost in experience) Then there was the 2nd Combine-Dominion war when the Bears genocided Nova Cats and Combine alike and this was seen as intolerable bys the Rashalhagians nearly ticking of a civil war. And in the Dark Age there was the Freeminder movement which they first solved by banning them to Vega only to welcome Vega into the fold years later. Other then that the Bears were usually seens as a very complacent society. I expected a break line and that perhaps 1 or two galaxies decide to join the Wolves on Terra but this writing does sound like idiocy. Then again the Wolves are the pets of the authors and since alaric is in essence the descendant of Victor and Katherine he gets away with it.

 

[Snekposter]

How do you say 'lolcow' in Swedenese, and do the Clans have an equivalent term?

I think "surat" is close enough. They're flying monkey-bat things that get everywhere and cause trouble when unsupervised.

 

[Corn Flakes]

The whole Bear Civil War is a perfect example of writing backwards; you start with an end result (the Bears joining the Ilkhanate) and then write backwards to get to that point, no matter how little sense it makes. Its textbook bad writing. This is problem of having a tabletop game with a metaplot as long running and involved as this one. It eventually starts to fall in on itself as the great writers that established it are run out or replaced by shitty writers who have no idea what they are doing half the time.

In fairness, that's not a new thing in BT. The Clans were also a textbook example of writing backwards: we want a brand new faction to carve through the Inner Sphere, how do we do it? Although back then even those situations were handled a bit more elegantly.