Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

[William Murderface]

I would have been far more satisfied if the Bears held a vote, the civilians overwhelmingly voted no saying "we don't care" and the leadership (and warriors) said "oh well, your vote doesn't matter, we call the shots and that's that" and it spiraled out of control from there. It ends up in a total Civil War and at the end of it the surviving (and now disillusioned) Bears go to Terra and a reborn FRR exists. And the Bears that did make it to Terra are torn because on the one hand Alaric is their Moses and led them to the promised land, but on the other hand they lost everything they had in the Rasalhague Dominion in the process. They're bitter and broken and Alaric doesn't know what to do.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I would have been far more satisfied if the Bears held a vote, the civilians overwhelmingly voted no saying "we don't care" and the leadership (and warriors) said "oh well, your vote doesn't matter, we call the shots and that's that" and it spiraled out of control from there. It ends up in a total Civil War and at the end of it the surviving (and now disillusioned) Bears go to Terra and a reborn FRR exists. And the Bears that did make it to Terra are torn because on the one hand Alaric is their Moses and led them to the promised land, but on the other hand they lost everything they had in the Rasalhague Dominion in the process. They're bitter and broken and Alaric doesn't know what to do.

See, that's my problem with this whole set-up with the Bears and Alaric.

Sure, the objective of the Clans when they invaded was to take Terra. The Bears started out as Crusaders. But post-Tukayyid they took a hard turn towards the Warden mindset. They didn't want Terra anymore. And it's been literally a hundred fucking years and a motherfucking nuclear Jihad since then. There should be nobody in the Clan who was alive back when they invaded, and even if there were they'd be so old as to have long been discarded as solahma (yeah, no retirement pensions for old Warriors). Every single member of the Clan's leadership was decanted and raised in Rasalhague, loyal to the Dominon, and the Dominion itself took great pains to integrate their societies. They should have flipped Alaric the bird and told him to come and take them as bondsmen if he wants them a part of his Empire.

None of this makes any sense. Not if the characters involved were supposed to be humans with agency, anyway. Every excuse I've seen so far after skimming through it just reeks of writer's fiat. It's like they don't really know what the setting needs (a short period of relative peace where everybody gets to rebuild and people can play smaller-scale conflicts) and are just having everybody fighting against everybody else just because. It's the equivalent of Netflix releasing new and increasingly shittier seasons for a show that wrapped up on the first season because "you gotta have more content". I'd rather have fewer but better-written conflicts instead.

 

[William Murderface]

I agree completely that it makes no sense for the Bears to throw their lot in with Alaric and it smacks of the writers saying "we want all the IS Clans to get the band back together with the Wolves and here we are." But if that is the end goal the way they did it just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for them to have a vote, Alaric to call them weak for them for daring to ask their non-warriors anything, and have the Bears say "gee whiz, he's right!", invade the DC just to take everyone's mind off of it, and when their civil war is over just refill their ranks and everyone is back together hand-in-hand as happy Bear loving Space-Swedes.

If the bears had to go with Alaric, they needed to really pay for their decision, and not just with replaceable warriors.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I agree completely that it makes no sense for the Bears to throw their lot in with Alaric and it smacks of the writers saying "we want all the IS Clans to get the band back together with the Wolves and here we are." But if that is the end goal the way they did it just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for them to have a vote, Alaric to call them weak for them for daring to ask their non-warriors anything, and have the Bears say "gee whiz, he's right!", invade the DC just to take everyone's mind off of it, and when their civil war is over just refill their ranks and everyone is back together hand-in-hand as happy Bear loving Space-Swedes.

If the bears had to go with Alaric, they needed to really pay for their decision, and not just with replaceable warriors.

The most logical outcome of Alaric calling them pussies would be a split in the Dominions' ranks, a short but brutal war within the Warrior caste, and a bunch of their military defecting to Alaric's "Star League" as a reformed Clan Ghost Bear. Why does this work? Because...

... The Rasalhague Dominion is then left with the Clan-style Warriors that were truly faithful to their nation and has to fill the gaps with further freeborn (weakening the Dominion overall and avoiding it turning into a hegemon);

... Alaric gets more canister-born assholes to swing at his enemies, and a bitter rivalry with the Rasalhague Dominion that can fuel further conflict;

... the whole thing is resolved quickly enough that any conflict with the Draconis Combine (if they're really dead set on it) can happen for unrelated reasons. I don't know, maybe the Coordinator was bored that day, who cares.

 

[William Murderface]

The most logical outcome of Alaric calling them pussies would be a split in the Dominions' ranks, a short but brutal war within the Warrior caste, and a bunch of their military defecting to Alaric's "Star League" as a reformed Clan Ghost Bear. Why does this work? Because...

... The Rasalhague Dominion is then left with the Clan-style Warriors that were truly faithful to their nation and has to fill the gaps with further freeborn (weakening the Dominion overall and avoiding it turning into a hegemon);

... Alaric gets more canister-born assholes to swing at his enemies, and a bitter rivalry with the Rasalhague Dominion that can fuel further conflict;

... the whole thing is resolved quickly enough that any conflict with the Draconis Combine (if they're really dead set on it) can happen for unrelated reasons. I don't know, maybe the Coordinator was bored that day, who cares.

I agree totally.

 

[Snekposter]

... the whole thing is resolved quickly enough that any conflict with the Draconis Combine (if they're really dead set on it) can happen for unrelated reasons. I don't know, maybe the Coordinator was bored that day, who cares.

IDK, launching a probing strike to see just how strong the Dominion would be in the aftermath of such a split would be reason enough. I mean, that sort of thing is what people in the Sphere tend to do anyways when they're bored.

 

[Corn Flakes]

IDK, launching a probing strike to see just how strong the Dominion would be in the aftermath of such a split would be reason enough. I mean, that sort of thing is what people in the Sphere tend to do anyways when they're bored.

It's classic Kurita, too. Got their shit pushed in down south? Go poke at their neighbors to the west to claim some glory. But my point is that Kurita should be the offenders there. The Dominion starting a new war just to try to distract their population from the fact their armed forces just executed a coup is some Falklands War-tier stupidity.

I know Clanners aren't famous for their strategic acumen, but these idiots have been mingling with the Inner Sphere for a century now, and actively trying to integrate for at least half that. Surely, some common sense ought to have rubbed into them by this point.

I'm just glad this isn't Warhammer 40K so we can just go back and stay in the Eras we like the most. The fancy new gear is fun and all, but I'll take my FedCom Civil War storylines and campaigns over what they're trying to do with the setting now. And from what we've seen, somehow this new Clan-styled Star League is going to last at least a hundred years. Fuck that shit.

 

[Snekposter]

It's classic Kurita, too. Got their shit pushed in down south? Go poke at their neighbors to the west to claim some glory. But my point is that Kurita should be the offenders there. The Dominion starting a new war just to try to distract their population from the fact their armed forces just executed a coup is some Falklands War-tier stupidity.

I know Clanners aren't famous for their strategic acumen, but these idiots have been mingling with the Inner Sphere for a century now, and actively trying to integrate for at least half that. Surely, some common sense ought to have rubbed into them by this point.

I'm just glad this isn't Warhammer 40K so we can just go back and stay in the Eras we like the most. The fancy new gear is fun and all, but I'll take my FedCom Civil War storylines and campaigns over what they're trying to do with the setting now. And from what we've seen, somehow this new Clan-styled Star League is going to last at least a hundred years. Fuck that shit.

I'm with you. IMO the FCCW really was the best time, and I'm not just saying that because MW4 Mercs was my first real exposure to BT. Well, maybe I am because despite being a Davion fanboy I'll admit the Fafnir and its twin HGauss is German engineering actually not sucking total balls for once. Yeah, the whole package is probably a bitch and a half to maintain, but somehow the Steiners both managed to improve on the damage output of AC/20 and find the tons and crits to slap two of them in a single 'Mech.

As to the Dracs being the one to start it? Definitely. I haven't been keeping up with matters (and I'm glad considering this stupidity here) but doesn't the Dominion mostly just tend to their own business? I mean they'll be glad to fight if you are but IIRC they tend not to be running around picking a whole lot of fights just because they can.

You know, kinda like the Horses, even if the latter are too busy licking their wounds after their combined arms shit always gets pushed in by writers because LOL BATTLEMECHS.

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

If they want Clan Invasion back, they should stay in Clan Invasion.

 

[William Murderface]

I can see the Dracs ramping up raiding and maybe try to take a world or two, but they just got kicked out of the Suns and can't do much about the Ravens so I think it's unlikely that the DCMS has some kind of general offensive. The Horses hate the Bears but they're too busy gobbling up what's left of the Falcon's worlds to worry about the Bears right this minute. And you're right that the Bears don't start fights, so really the only option to bring them down to size was a civil war, which I was glad they did but at the end of the day they are no worse off than the start of the whole thing. Yeah, their troops may be a bit greener, but a few battles under Alaric's banner and they're right where they were before.

It doesn't help that we know the ilClan still exists in some form for at least the next hundred years. Maybe it comes down that Alaric gets kicked off Terra and it's just the ilClan in name only, but we also know that Herb's plan was for the Clans to ultimately absorb and be absorbed by the IS states so you would still have the DC, the FS, the LC, etc., but with merged Clan/IS cultures like the Bears and FRR or the Ravens and OA have. It may end up that is how the setting moves after all, although I think that will push as many people away as the whole Jihad and MWDA settings did

I did pretty much stop caring about both the game and the setting after the conclusion of the FCCW (and I have a ton of gripes about how that all ended but that's for another post). I kept up with the fluff and lore but stopped worrying about it once FASA closed it's doors. It's kind of how I feel about Disney Star Wars. It's just bad fan fiction backed by money. I get that a lot of the Jihad and MWDA setting was FASA's plan in the first place and the Weisman grabbed that and ran with it and that a lot of the same people were involved, but we'll never know how FASA's take would ultimately pan out.

I will say that product-wise, I mean from a production standpoint, what FanPro and CGL have done has been amazing. The quality of the materials from art and layout and physical products have been stellar and far above what FASA ever put out, and part of that is across the board in RPGs these days, but I will always give credit where credit is due. I may not like the the direction the game is going, but the quality of the products is outstanding.

 

[William Murderface]

If they want Clan Invasion back, they should stay in Clan Invasion.

Clan Invasion 2: The Clanening

 

[RSU 1741]

somehow this new Clan-styled Star League is going to last at least a hundred years. Fuck that shit.

I for one, welcome our new Goliath Scorpion IlClan that has been subtly suggested in countless publications. I mean, who's the only other option? The Space Jews?

Dominions Divided is so shitty even the OF could not contain it properly, and every defense was half-assed. The Bears need to support Alaric because the writing requires it, that's it. Also Two Factional Choices because Two Factional Choices. Tamar Rising was far better, with proper Balkanization, politics, your unlikely heroes (laugh at me, I liked a lot Jiyi Chistu's Late-Roman style takeover and kinda hope he smashes Alaric's face before being killed off).

Also, do we have a proper list of what mechs/packs we're going to get with the new Kickstarter? I got some people interested in the game (I'm amazed how this bunch of barely-balanced rules get new fans, but who am I to complain) and I'd love to know better. Sarna ain't helping.

 

[White Devil]

They need to do another technology shattering event to get rid of all the gay power creep.

Never happen though.

 

[William Murderface]

They need to do another technology shattering event to get rid of all the gay power creep.

Never happen though.

That was Herb's plan for his 3250 setting time jump. Clan tech is standard tech and everything else is so obsolete that it's no longer used, even in the Periphery. I'm thinking he might also have some massive event in whatever he had planned between the end of the Dark Age and the 3250 set up that would have explained why there was no real forward progress of tech beyond Clan level by then. I suspect that he would have started some kind of tech progression after that soft reboot, not unlike how we got SLDF tech in TRO 2750 as an advanced version of Inner Sphere tech.

I know the knee-jerk reaction when his plan came to light was so very reminiscent of the reaction to the Jihad/MWDA blurbs we got from Weisman and he quickly backpedaled, but I wonder if anyone at CGL ever thought there would be some kind of backlash or if it would have been so slowly rolled at that the players would just kind of go along with it. They have to remember that players have been with this game for decades and grognards don't particularly like change and certainly don't want to give up the 'Mechs they have been using for years on end in home campaigns just because the new rule set says they're obsolete and can't be used.

And that is before we even get to the part where he wanted to replace the rules with something very close to Alpha Strike. And I get the logic behind that. The Battletech rules as written in 1986 were quick for the time, but 40 years later game design has evolved and the BT rules can be glacially slow, especially when you have more than a company versus company sized battle. Again, players get attached to the 'Mechs and don't want a ruleset that abstracts them any further or replaces them entirely. The developers should know that they can have stuff like Alpha Strike or BattleForce as adjuncts to BT, but it's at the point that they will shoot themselves in the foot if they outright try to replace it. But at the same time, the more and more stuff they hand on an old ruleset that was never designed with new tech in mind the more and more the old system creaks and groans. Despite that, a lot of players want more tech options. It's quite the conundrum.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

And that is before we even get to the part where he wanted to replace the rules with something very close to Alpha Strike. And I get the logic behind that. The Battletech rules as written in 1986 were quick for the time, but 40 years later game design has evolved and the BT rules can be glacially slow, especially when you have more than a company versus company sized battle. Again, players get attached to the 'Mechs and don't want a ruleset that abstracts them any further or replaces them entirely. The developers should know that they can have stuff like Alpha Strike or BattleForce as adjuncts to BT, but it's at the point that they will shoot themselves in the foot if they outright try to replace it. But at the same time, the more and more stuff they hand on an old ruleset that was never designed with new tech in mind the more and more the old system creaks and groans. Despite that, a lot of players want more tech options. It's quite the conundrum.

I mean, at some point, you just got to say "Fuck it" and pick a course to take and tell anyone who doesn't like it to either fuck off or keep playing the older versions of the game.

 

[William Murderface]

I mean, at some point, you just got to say "Fuck it" and pick a course to take and tell anyone who doesn't like it to either fuck off or keep playing the older versions of the game.

I get it, and the line developer has to remember those grognards that have been playing the same game for decades and will be alienated and walk. He has to ask himself "will I gain more new customers going to a different ruleset to offset those that quit?" I think in the long run keeping BT as the main rule set while keeping Alpha Strike as an option was the best option for all involved.

I also think had Weisman not gone with the blind box set up and kept the BT system as well, the MWDA mini game might still be around. Have faction boxes and say exactly what is in the box so the player knows exactly what he's buying so he can get what he wants. It wasn't a bad system and it was quick to play.

 

[BlackDragoons]

I get it, and the line developer has to remember those grognards that have been playing the same game for decades and will be alienated and walk. He has to ask himself "will I gain more new customers going to a different ruleset to offset those that quit?" I think in the long run keeping BT as the main rule set while keeping Alpha Strike as an option was the best option for all involved.

I also think had Weisman not gone with the blind box set up and kept the BT system as well, the MWDA mini game might still be around. Have faction boxes and say exactly what is in the box so the player knows exactly what he's buying so he can get what he wants. It wasn't a bad system and it was quick to play.

I actually quiet enjoyed the Clix game when it came out and honestly had a lot of charm. Of course the main problem it had was major power creep plus the whole Cracking Packs aspect of it. I remember some of the more meta pieces going around for 50 bucks online back in the day.

 

[William Murderface]

I actually quiet enjoyed the Clix game when it came out and honestly had a lot of charm. Of course the main problem it had was major power creep plus the whole Cracking Packs aspect of it. I remember some of the more meta pieces going around for 50 bucks online back in the day.

I think the three biggest problems with ClickyTech were:

1) The blind boxes. I tried it a few times and kept getting crap like multiple LawnmowerMechs while my friends kept getting real Mechs. After about five boxes of that I just gave up on buying anything new.

2) It didn't translate well to BT. They came out with a Record Sheets book for them and some of the designs that were great with the click bases just sucked in BT. Things like a long range mech in ClickyTech ended up being armed with AC2s as their main weapons which just doesn't work. I know that Weisman had intended that BT die out and didn't care, but had it been designed to be able to translate from one to the other would have been nice, but it would have required Weisman to care about keeping BT in the first place.

3) Power creep was fully intended from the start. That way you have to keep buying the newest set and tossing the older stuff to stay competitive.

I liked some aspects of the game. I liked the emphasis on combined arms. I liked that it started with wannabe units in the ROTS (Swordsworn, Spirit Cats, etc.) and ended up with them being absorbed by their appropriate House or Clan (Davion, Nova Cats, etc.). I liked that it was quick, the rules were straight forward, I liked how much effort they put in for expanding their setting (the Touring the Sphere articles online and pilot cards features for example).

I think Weisman made some terrible decisions going into it and mostly it came down to his piggybacking on the planned Jihad and how the survivors just gave up their Mechs (the basis of their own smaller nobility power according to all the fluff we'd seen for ages), the crashing of the HPG network (a mystery that has still never been solved 20 years of real time later), and telling the fanbase to kick rocks if they weren't on board with his direction for the game itself and the new setting. I'm glad WizKids did allow BT to still exist in some manner and then to start moving forward in time.

ClickyTech must have done something right since it sold well for 6 or 7 years.

 

[Balr0g]

I for one hope the Horses get better leadership then the current one. to me it feels like a repeat of the pre jihad horses with a Cobb to take the reign over again. Though the horses don't really hate the Bears anymore. The only clan the really have an axe to grind with are the Falcons (because Malvina Space Hitler Hazen) and the Wolves or rather Alaric. Funny thing is that the Horses are now somewhat like the Lyrans with their Horde clusters. The main difference being that the Lyrans have the wall of steel while the Horses have the fast wall of steel.

Also is it just me or is it annyoing that the plot device civil war is thrown around so much? We had the Falcons undergo a civil war, the combine, the Bears, the Lyrans have a smoldering one and the suns are on the verge of one as well. The Free worlds had their small one as well when they took Regulus back into the fold and the Confederation might get one as well though more akin to Magistracy vs Confederation. How convenient when a weakened Clan Wolf is sitting on Terra and NOTHING ELSE (nothing else meaning that the Free Worlds are currently digesting alaric's empire with the Dragoons rampaging as the vanguard)

 

[StevieLasVegas]

Hey now. They can't let Clan Plot Armor get a booboo. It might make Alaric look bad