Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

[Corn Flakes]

If we leave BV out of it, you can buy 14 Hetzers and change for the price of a single Atlas. Drop that down to 12 so you can cannibalize two and get two platoons going, and you're at 7,968,000 C-bills. Add in the cost of crew training including live-fire and fuel, and you get maybe 8.5 million c-bills total. You've now got another 1.1 million c-bills left over to spend getting everything else kitted out. And you now have two full assault gun platoons of five tanks each plus a bunch of heavy infantry support for urban combat.

Let's face it, anyone pulling off that plan is likely not going to be a Successor State. So, since we're already in the Periphery, we all know where those million c-bills are going. The Three Bs: Bitches, Bribes and Beer.

And you can get all three in the Magistracy!

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

See, you expect a Charger to... well, charge. Most people don't expect to see a 50-ton death-frisbee clotheslining 'Mechs like it ain't no thing.

This is true, although when I first started I never thought about physical attacks, so I never really understood the point of a Charger.

It's all fun and games until the HGN-734 Highlander leaps over the building and lands in front of you to bring you tidings of LB 20-X slug and buckshot. I used to think JJs on Assault 'Mechs were a waste, but playing against a lance with a pair of those in an urban map definitely had me reconsidering that opinion. They didn't even try to DFA me, the maneuverability advantage in those cramped spaces was just godlike for a 'Mech built for close quarters combat.

Everyone keys in on the Atlas because it has a bunch of big weapons, but I've always loved jumping Assaults. Sure, that's a lot of tonnage not going to guns and armor, but when you lose an initiative roll and now there's an angry Highlander, Victor, or Pillager behind you, you learn.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

As you can tell, I really lack the experience from TT to really say what's effective and what's not, but it seems that on the old mapsheets, there are not many examples of terrain that prohibit movement in a way that JumpJets are a must - they are useful, but you can make do without... but in the video game, I add JumpJets to almost all mechs, cause the maps are so small and the terrain is so jagged, you'll always profit off that mobility.

Speaking of which, did another Flashpoint Campaign mission that offered a "unique and rare item" as reward. The mission itself was ok, there was a cameo of "The Bounty Hunter" who was a rather arrogant asshat (dunno if this is in line with his established personality during that time tho), who interferes a little and then offers you a "consolation price for the loser" after the mission.
The way he talks about that thing though makes it sound like it's some small piece of equippement, that's broken. So I halfway expect it to be either some datacore that will be the next breadcrumb for the campaign or maybe a doubleheatsink. Nope.
Turns out it's a fully decked out Highlander 732b. Complete with Doubleheatsinks and Gauss Rifle. I can't even be mad at that.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

As you can tell, I really lack the experience from TT to really say what's effective and what's not, but it seems that on the old mapsheets, there are not many examples of terrain that prohibit movement in a way that JumpJets are a must - they are useful, but you can make do without... but in the video game, I add JumpJets to almost all mechs, cause the maps are so small and the terrain is so jagged, you'll always profit off that mobility.

There isn't always, but I know there was one old mapsheet that had some plateau in the middle and not having jump jets in that situation is ugly if the other guy takes the hill and you can't just hop up. Learned that lesson the hard way. There's also the advantage of being able to jump over an enemy mech if they're close enough. No one likes rear hits. Their real advantage is being able to hop over any level terrain and instantly break Line of Sight. It can save your ass if you're in a bad position or initiative situation.

Also backstabbers. It's why the TR1 Wraith is one of my favorite mechs and one of the few newer mechs I was sad to see the FWL lose to the Cappies. It's about the purest expression of a backstabber ever made. 55 Tons, 7/11/7, one large IS Pulse laser and two IS mediums and just shy of max armor. TRO:3050 was a shitstorm of bad ideas with recovered tech, TRO:3060 we don't talk about, but TRO:3055 has some amazing gems, especially if you're a Leaguer. TRO:3058 was full of good ideas, for the most part. FASA's mech guys were amazingly inconsistent and their ability to not know how to apply their own gear is mind boggling and maddening sometimes.

 

[Snekposter]

JJ's are good for moving across intervening terrain. You don't need to roll for terrain features if you jump over them after all, and they all cost 1 MP to move across, so broken terrain is no impediment to a mech with JJ. Yes, this means that while a mech would pay double MP to move through some light woods, JJ is just one basic movement point. That Wraith mentioned up above will outrun anything that doesn't have a 14 run speed if it jumps across 7 hexes of woods, and a jumping mech gives a +1 to hit for anyone shooting at it, plus the usual penalties for hex travel. So trying to nail that jumping Wraith is at a +4 for the attacker, which is not good. Jumping also ignores MP costs for upwards level changes, so long as your initial jumping MP after modifiers is equal to or greater than the terrain height, and going down any number of levels is just 1 MP. Turning also costs no movement points, unlike walking. As you can probably imagine, something like a Victor and its 4 hexes of jump allows for some extremely surprise buttsex whenever terrain gets rough. Now, its 4 heat for every jump MP expended, but you don't get penalties until you hit 8, and while you're at a +3 to hit thanks to the jumping, you're hopefully at short range and you've got an AC/20, 2 medium lasers, and an SRM-2, and at least one of those will hit, and not even an Atlas wants a medium laser to light up its rear. Yes, it has 2 ML there, but he's at a +2 to hit from the rear arc plus the +2 to hit thanks to you moving, which is a total of +4, so you've got some very good odds, and unless said Atlas stood still he gets a +1 from walking, so that's a total of +5 to hit for him. Advantage: Victor.

Phew, autism over.

EDIT: As to the bounty hunter, let me quote Sarna:

The Bounty Hunter had been active for close to a century, leading to speculation that the PA(L) suit, the modified 'Mechs that he piloted, and even the mysterious mythos surrounding the individual were passed from person to person via the death or retirement of the former MechWarrior whose personified him. Known people to have been the Bounty Hunter were Michi Noketsuna and Vic Travers, who inherited the equipment, as well as an ancient book referred to as "the tradition".[1] Travers eventually passed the legacy on to one of his aides going by the name of Walt Urizeman, though that name is held to be just one of the man's several fake identities.

TL;DR he's basically The Man with No Name crossed with the Mandalorians of Star Wars. Yes, he's an asshat, but has a strange sense of fair play at times.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

It's notable that the Bounty Hunter hasn't suffered much competence decay despite being something of a legacy character. All the inheritors have been at least solidly competent to downright scary in terms of ability (The original BH tried to capture Natasha Kerensky, Noketsuna was no slouch and hunted down Grieg Samsonov for his role in his mentor's demise, and Travers was known for shit-talking Manei Domini to their faces).

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

JJ's are good for moving across intervening terrain. You don't need to roll for terrain features if you jump over them after all, and they all cost 1 MP to move across, so broken terrain is no impediment to a mech with JJ. Yes, this means that while a mech would pay double MP to move through some light woods, JJ is just one basic movement point. That Wraith mentioned up above will outrun anything that doesn't have a 14 run speed if it jumps across 7 hexes of woods, and a jumping mech gives a +1 to hit for anyone shooting at it, plus the usual penalties for hex travel. So trying to nail that jumping Wraith is at a +4 for the attacker, which is not good. Jumping also ignores MP costs for upwards level changes, so long as your initial jumping MP after modifiers is equal to or greater than the terrain height, and going down any number of levels is just 1 MP. Turning also costs no movement points, unlike walking. As you can probably imagine, something like a Victor and its 4 hexes of jump allows for some extremely surprise buttsex whenever terrain gets rough. Now, its 4 heat for every jump MP expended, but you don't get penalties until you hit 8, and while you're at a +3 to hit thanks to the jumping, you're hopefully at short range and you've got an AC/20, 2 medium lasers, and an SRM-2, and at least one of those will hit, and not even an Atlas wants a medium laser to light up its rear. Yes, it has 2 ML there, but he's at a +2 to hit from the rear arc plus the +2 to hit thanks to you moving, which is a total of +4, so you've got some very good odds, and unless said Atlas stood still he gets a +1 from walking, so that's a total of +5 to hit for him. Advantage: Victor.

Phew, autism over.

Victors are mean and I think the Fed Suns losing their factory to the Cappies was when the Author Fiat moved to them. The Cappies have a stupid good line up of mechs. That said, if the League could get the Wraith back in the 3150 era, I would swap the pulse lasers for clan tech ones, and see if I could cram at least a TAG and maybe some electronics on it. Assuming they could fit, I know I've played around with trying to make custom set ups for it, but finding free crits on it is hard. It doesn't even want the range of the Clan pulse lasers, just the lighter weight. And that's only because I feel every League variant should have TAG. Semi-Guided LRMs are too useful to not carry whenever you can.

 

[Snekposter]

Like I said. There's a reason I try to get a full lance of them when I can in MW5. That 65 kph run speed on an 80 ton mech is too good to not pass up, and unlike the Banshee or Cyclops JJ are an option. Plus you can always swap out the 20 for an AC/10 or LBX if you're lucky enough to find one and slap more armor on.

 

[Urbanmech]

I never understood how Omnimechs never had to sacrifice a little tonnage or crit spaces to be an Omnimech. Yea yea they have to stick to their engines/heatsinks/JJ but the Ammo talks does bring up a good point about the Omnimechs, at least in the torso's, needing to reserve space for all the different configs for ammo/cooling needs.

 

[Snekposter]

Clan Wolf on suicide watch: https://www.scientificamerican.com/...e-not-really-wolves-new-genetic-clues-reveal/

 

[Corn Flakes]

I never understood how Omnimechs never had to sacrifice a little tonnage or crit spaces to be an Omnimech. Yea yea they have to stick to their engines/heatsinks/JJ but the Ammo talks does bring up a good point about the Omnimechs, at least in the torso's, needing to reserve space for all the different configs for ammo/cooling needs.

Basically, OmniMechs pay for their versatility in... actual money. OmniMechs are by default 25% more expensive than normal BattleMechs, and so is their equipment. That's something none of the other games deal in, but OmniMechs can only mount equipment installed in OmniPods. The pods account for an additional 25% of the cost of the equipment mounted in them, either out of the factory or converted to be mounted into an OmniPod. IIRC Clan equipment is always OmniPod-compatible (?), but Inner Sphere equipment isn't unless it came out of one of those rare dumpster fires Inner Sphere OmniMechs, since the IS explicitly copied Clan design and wanted to be able to use salvaged Clan equipment in their fucking awful buckets of bolts brand-spanking new Omnis.

I guess they never made it so OmniMechs had to dedicate tonnage to ammo feed lines and whatnot simply because no other unit in the game does that, and it would make the construction rules even more byzantine. I would love to see some art of a Dire Wolf or a Mad Dog chassis completely stripped of equipment. The torso bays have got to look cavernous.

Ironically, it looks like the designers ended up regretting adding Omnis to the game, because as time went on they did fewer and fewer new OmniMech designs. Even the Clans started sticking more and more with standard BattleMechs as their equipment losses added up. Design-wise they're also problematic, because a single OmniMech can take the design space of a dozen or more "canon" designs, and they're a munchkin's wet dream. Who needs fluffy, non-optimized designs when you can just boat everything?

(Took me way too long to find that info. One should never dig into rules-dense stuff like BT rulebooks early in the morning without enough coffee in them.)

 

[Urbanmech]

Basically, OmniMechs pay for their versatility in... actual money. OmniMechs are by default 25% more expensive than normal BattleMechs, and so is their equipment. That's something none of the other games deal in, but OmniMechs can only mount equipment installed in OmniPods. The pods account for an additional 25% of the cost of the equipment mounted in them, either out of the factory or converted to be mounted into an OmniPod. IIRC Clan equipment is always OmniPod-compatible (?), but Inner Sphere equipment isn't unless it came out of one of those rare dumpster fires Inner Sphere OmniMechs, since the IS explicitly copied Clan design and wanted to be able to use salvaged Clan equipment in their fucking awful buckets of bolts brand-spanking new Omnis.

I guess they never made it so OmniMechs had to dedicate tonnage to ammo feed lines and whatnot simply because no other unit in the game does that, and it would make the construction rules even more byzantine. I would love to see some art of a Dire Wolf or a Mad Dog chassis completely stripped of equipment. The torso bays have got to look cavernous.

Ironically, it looks like the designers ended up regretting adding Omnis to the game, because as time went on they did fewer and fewer new OmniMech designs. Even the Clans started sticking more and more with standard BattleMechs as their equipment losses added up. Design-wise they're also problematic, because a single OmniMech can take the design space of a dozen or more "canon" designs, and they're a munchkin's wet dream. Who needs fluffy, non-optimized designs when you can just boat everything?

(Took me way too long to find that info. One should never dig into rules-dense stuff like BT rulebooks early in the morning without enough coffee in them.)

Omnimechs aren't the only mechs who pay for their versatility either, LAMs/Quadvees paid for it heavily in all areas. I think going the add crit slots route would have been appropriate since like you said they don't track the weight of all the internal stuff. And the Omnis have something no other mechs really have, extra crap they need to use any and all pods.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Omnimechs aren't the only mechs who pay for their versatility either, LAMs/Quadvees paid for it heavily in all areas. I think going the add crit slots route would have been appropriate since like you said they don't track the weight of all the internal stuff. And the Omnis have something no other mechs really have, extra crap they need to use any and all pods.

You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

On the battlefield an OmniMech is literally nothing more than an expensive BattleMech with handholds for battle armor. They walk the same, jump the same, fire the same, and blow up the same. They use 100% the same combat rules as BattleMechs. Their advantages come entirely from easing logistics and repair, and being able to prepare for different tactical situations if you know they're coming, and their higher price tag (25% is nothing to scoff at!) represents the complexity that went into their design and manufacture to allow for these things to be mounted without extra tonnage or crit space required. They are literally built into the design. But none of that applies to when you're actually rolling dice and hoping for crits. This is all before/after the battle.

LAMs and QuadVees have much different tactical options that they can exploit on the board, and that's why they pay for it in crits and tonnage. LAMs can turn into an entirely differenty unit type and fly; while QuadVees can split fire without penalty, fire weapons in a 360-degree circle, switch their height level on a whim, ignore motive/gyro crits by switching form, etc, etc. Both have to pay for it because these are things they can do in the battlefield that go beyond what BattleMechs can do. And if you look at things like MASC or TSM, you'll see that anything that allows you to break the standard combat rules in some way comes with a price in crits, tonnage and/or danger. Meanwhile, things that happen outside of combat operations are handled with different systems: C-bills, salvage, tech ratings, and so on and so forth.

You might argue that they pay too much for what they get, QuadVees in particular, and I would agree with you there, but they suffer from the same issue as vehicles in general: they're meant, by game design, to be strictly worse than BattleMechs.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

I'd mention that there are IS omnis that aren't terrible, but as a Leaguer, that leaves the Avatar as the least shitty option, and I think the Templar's aren't bad. The Perseus wouldn't actually be bad with a few tweaks. There's a Strider configuration that packs two Clan Streak LRM-10s, but as a general rule, if it takes Clantech to make your mech good, it's a bad design. Unless it's the Stooping Hawk, I mean, I know it's a Clan mech, but it's a cheap Clan Omni and I have a soft spot for Clan mechs that don't have XL engines.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I'd mention that there are IS omnis that aren't terrible, but as a Leaguer, that leaves the Avatar as the least shitty option, and I think the Templar's aren't bad. The Perseus wouldn't actually be bad with a few tweaks. There's a Strider configuration that packs two Clan Streak LRM-10s, but as a general rule, if it takes Clantech to make your mech good, it's a bad design. Unless it's the Stooping Hawk, I mean, I know it's a Clan mech, but it's a cheap Clan Omni and I have a soft spot for Clan mechs that don't have XL engines.

As a fellow Leaguer, I motion that we retroactively claim the Nova Cat as a League OmniMech.

ETA: and while we're at it, maybe we can get the Sharks/Foxes to throw in the Solitaire and the Piranha as a bonus. They're just "normal" second-line 'Mechs but I love them anyway. Solar heat and war crimes, what's not to love?

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

As a fellow Leaguer, I motion that we retroactively claim the Nova Cat as a League OmniMech.

Normally I'd demand you state which part of the League, because all proper Leaguers need to know who they'll be shooting at next time the National Pastime of Civil War starts up, but I think even Regulans would see the wisdom of that.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Ironically, this is something MWO did right (I know, shocking). Clan Omnis generally have fewer crits and very few options for customization outside OmniPod components (which can alter the available hardpoints and change the group bonuses) and weapons/equipment.

Meanwhile, you can completely overhaul the fuck out of an IS BattleMech. Some refits (engines especially) can get pricey but it's doable.

 

[Snekposter]

I think the Templar's aren't bad

Hey man, I'll gladly take an 85 ton super-Victor even if it doesn't have the almost-mandatory JJ. Then again, I'm shamelessly FedSuns due to their love of autocannons and possession of a strangely competent ruling family. There's a reason everyone gives Victor shit despite being only as much of a fuck-up as your average Liao. That and the fact his father Hanse Davion is well... Hanse Davion, the Inner Sphere's most magnificent bastard.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Ironically, this is something MWO did right (I know, shocking). Clan Omnis generally have fewer crits and very few options for customization outside OmniPod components (which can alter the available hardpoints and change the group bonuses) and weapons/equipment.

Meanwhile, you can completely overhaul the fuck out of an IS BattleMech. Some refits (engines especially) can get pricey but it's doable.

Eeeeh... I don't like most MechWarrior games because they effectively turn BattleMechs with full customization (seriously, changing internal structure or the reactor would be a full factory rebuild) into OmniMechs, then have to jump through hoops to make OmniMechs different. MWO's OmniMechs were particularly atrocious, because instead of swapping gear around, you swapped body parts. That was weird.

IMO, MW4 was actually the best game in terms of customization:

It allowed you to swap weapons around without completely changing the profile of the 'Mech, it was simple to understand, and the hardpoint size limits made it feel like the 'Mechs were actually different in size and shape. No matter what you do, you're not fitting a Gauss Rifle to a Flea.

Normally I'd demand you state which part of the League, because all proper Leaguers need to know who they'll be shooting at next time the National Pastime of Civil War starts up, but I think even Regulans would see the wisdom of that.

Duchy of Oriente here. Somehow we made it out of the Dark Ages in a waaaaaay better shape than I expected.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Eeeeh... I don't like most MechWarrior games because they effectively turn BattleMechs with full customization (seriously, changing internal structure or the reactor would be a full factory rebuild) into OmniMechs, then have to jump through hoops to make OmniMechs different. MWO's OmniMechs were particularly atrocious, because instead of swapping gear around, you swapped body parts. That was weird.

IMO, MW4 was actually the best game in terms of customization:

View attachment 1848142

It allowed you to swap weapons around without completely changing the profile of the 'Mech, it was simple to understand, and the hardpoint size limits made it feel like the 'Mechs were actually different in size and shape. No matter what you do, you're not fitting a Gauss Rifle to a Flea.

That's pretty much how MWO works. Hardpoints are limited, much like they were in MW4. There's a little more customization (it keeps most of the crit-space management from the standard board game), but you can't fit any weapon onto any Mech willy nilly. You need an appropriate hardpoint and enough tonnage/critspace to jam it in.