Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

I think I have an idea, though it's pretty cold blooded.

The Defiance execs know that, in the wake of the First Succession War, no one's going to gut the golden goose. So it doesn't matter who owns the planet -- they'll still need Defiance Hesperus to produce their Mechs.
That, and its a guaranteed way to get free security. Who the hell wants to try to do industrial espionage on a place like that when the House its part of is going to move heaven and earth to make sure a foreign glowie can't get inside for sabotage and/or theft? Defiance has a free hand to engage in a wide array of corporate fuckery so long as the LCAF gets its 'Mechs on time and on budget.

That, and given that it takes weeks at best for long-distance travel having factories near the front lines is pretty damn necessary given the endemic JumpShip shortages in the IS. Anything that can't be field-repaired by Techs has to be shipped back to the factories, and the longer the distances, the longer your 'Mechs are out of action. And any factory fresh 'Mechs, such as to replenish losses to raiding, have to travel those distances as well. Supply lines are a thing, after all.
 
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Pretty much. I mean even during WW2 you had Willow Run, which was over three million square feet in size (325,160 square meters for you Eurofags here), which isn't exactly the sort of thing that can be picked up and moved, nor could the railyards that led to it, nor the component factories that used the rail lines to ship parts for final assembly... That Defiance Industries plant on Hesperus is probably close to the size of a small city if not larger, complete with dormitories, amenities, etc.
In the Novel "The Dying Time", several lances worth of mechs engage in battle inside the Defiance Industries bunkers and there is enough room for them to get lost and only engage each other every now and then in ambushes... and this large-scale combat actually only affects a fraction of the facilities inside that mountain.

DefHes is insanely huge, has a lot of facilities spread all over the planet and it needs resources, material and components from other facilities, possibly lightyears away. In a way, DefHes sits in the middle of a vast star-spanning net of suppliers as well as a giant military apparatus that both defends them and depends on them.

Relocating all that is a massive undertaking, since it creates an endless chain of other stuff that needs to be relocated as well (which in turn will also make it necessary to relocate stuff to supply that newly relocated stuff and so on) and then you run into issues of supply chains running long and thin.
At some point you just settle for thicker bunker doors, figuratively speaking. Especially when this also allows you way shorter resupply chains to your frontlines.

Weathering a raid or two every couple years is not pleasant, but you just hunker down, keep your stocks in your vaults and sell your skin as expensive as possible, hoping for reinforcements to disperse the raiders before they actually break into your facilities and get anything of value.

I called it a flimsy excuse, but the more I think about the logistical nightmare that is relocating such vast facilities, the more reasonable it seems to just take the risk of raids and boost defenses instead.

My big problem is how, through centuries of relatively static borders, there are so many vitally important factories near constantly-active warzones. Like, the Great Houses have existed in some way or another since at least the 2300s. They've been in conflict or preparing for conflict with their neighbors for about that long. Even during the Golden Age that was the Star League, they kept building up their reserves. And yet seemingly no one thought of funding or relocating industries to worlds that wouldn't so easy to invade, capture or harass. Hell, the Lyran Commonwealth moved its capital from Arcturus to Tharkad, yet in 700+ years no one could convince Defiance to build their manufacture plants beyond the range of raids out of the Combine or the League.
You need to look further than the length of time and look at what was going on during that time.

In the early days, pre Star League, the necessary infrastructure to make a large scale production facility possible only existed within the heart of the Inner Sphere, cause those were the regions with the longest running colonies and settlements. You depend heavily on supplies of material, components and staff that you won't find easily anywhere else and you need to ship out your products too, so you'll end up somewhere close to Terra.

Once Star League did roll around, they kept a tab on such facilities and would discourage (if not outright forbidding) anyone from setting up facilities of similar scale too far away from the reaches of the SL. And with Star League, there were a couple good reasons to be close to the Terran Hegemony and not much risk involved in keeping it that way... and the facilities prospered and grew to absurd sizes, that make it virtually impossible to relocate them now.

After the Star League got screwed, things escalated rather quickly and the means to set up comparable facilities to those of DefHes would be gone within a few years, never quite to return until centuries later (if at all). The Succession Wars ate up any state's ability to relocate such vast facilities, let alone create them. If Succession States had the ability to create facilities on the level of DefHes from scratch, the entire IS would be covered in such facilities, so relocating existing assets is the best you can do, and it would be a pain in the ass:

It is by far more easy to relocate your capital, since that mainly involves moving people into new buildings and station garrisons around it. You really only need to create office space and communication systems... the worst thing here might be dealing with living quarters that are not as nice and luxurious as the ones you left behind.
Doesn't mean relocating your capital is a cakewalk, but putting a few bureaucrats and their paperwork into a couple DropShips and hauling them off a few dozen lightyears is way more easy than trying to hollow out an entire mountain's worth of underground Mech-production facilities and set up new shops in a place that might not even be capable of supplying the necessary raw materials and tech to restart production without building all that up first, which might in turn be an undertaking spanning generations.

And needless to say: That whole process of relocating those facilities would mean production ceases for quite some time.
You need to pack up all your stuff, all machinery, all your stored components, raw materials, partially finished products, everything. You need to ship it across the IS, do god knows how many runs back and forth to ferry everything to the new location and then hope everything made the journey without getting misplaced, broken or lost. Just one wrong barcode on a shipping container might mean you don't have a part of your assembly line and it'll take forever to find that container, dig up the stuff you need and continue with everything... and all this is assuming that you can even move everything that's important. Might as well be that some core aspects of the facilities and assembly lines in question are simply impossible to pack up and transport.
Silly example, but a friend of mine has a huge ancient fridge in his basement that was put there before the house was built on top. It is simply impossible to move that thing out of said basement, cause both stairways are too narrow.
So anyone planning to relocate his weapon production lines would need to spend absurd amounts of resources to prepare the new location and then wait (possibly for years!) until the new site ramps up production. And if anyone gets wind of any of this going on (and keep in mind, the planning alone could take DECADES, so plenty of time for someone to learn about it), this whole thing could become a desaster.

Just imagine someone successfully managing to intercept a jumpship carrying part of the DefHes haul. If it gets destroyed, it's bad, if it gets captured, it's even worse.
Putting together a protective naval force to accompany these hauls will leave every other area at risk of being attacked. It would slow down things even more.

Operation U-Haul would take years to be finished and production being at previous levels.

So yeah...
"We'll just pour all our economic surplus into relocating one of our military weapons production facilities, which will take decades to plan out and prepare for, which will mean production of those facilities will simply stop for a couple years during which we relocate everything and it has a decent risk of something going horribly wrong."
-vs.-
"Like... put another couple dozen turrets and a few minebelts around the factories, we'll double the size of the local garrison and keep a few battalions in close systems on standby."
 
In the Novel "The Dying Time", several lances worth of mechs engage in battle inside the Defiance Industries bunkers and there is enough room for them to get lost and only engage each other every now and then in ambushes... and this large-scale combat actually only affects a fraction of the facilities inside that mountain.

DefHes is insanely huge, has a lot of facilities spread all over the planet and it needs resources, material and components from other facilities, possibly lightyears away. In a way, DefHes sits in the middle of a vast star-spanning net of suppliers as well as a giant military apparatus that both defends them and depends on them.

Relocating all that is a massive undertaking, since it creates an endless chain of other stuff that needs to be relocated as well (which in turn will also make it necessary to relocate stuff to supply that newly relocated stuff and so on) and then you run into issues of supply chains running long and thin.
At some point you just settle for thicker bunker doors, figuratively speaking. Especially when this also allows you way shorter resupply chains to your frontlines.

Weathering a raid or two every couple years is not pleasant, but you just hunker down, keep your stocks in your vaults and sell your skin as expensive as possible, hoping for reinforcements to disperse the raiders before they actually break into your facilities and get anything of value.

I called it a flimsy excuse, but the more I think about the logistical nightmare that is relocating such vast facilities, the more reasonable it seems to just take the risk of raids and boost defenses instead.


You need to look further than the length of time and look at what was going on during that time.

In the early days, pre Star League, the necessary infrastructure to make a large scale production facility possible only existed within the heart of the Inner Sphere, cause those were the regions with the longest running colonies and settlements. You depend heavily on supplies of material, components and staff that you won't find easily anywhere else and you need to ship out your products too, so you'll end up somewhere close to Terra.

Once Star League did roll around, they kept a tab on such facilities and would discourage (if not outright forbidding) anyone from setting up facilities of similar scale too far away from the reaches of the SL. And with Star League, there were a couple good reasons to be close to the Terran Hegemony and not much risk involved in keeping it that way... and the facilities prospered and grew to absurd sizes, that make it virtually impossible to relocate them now.

After the Star League got screwed, things escalated rather quickly and the means to set up comparable facilities to those of DefHes would be gone within a few years, never quite to return until centuries later (if at all). The Succession Wars ate up any state's ability to relocate such vast facilities, let alone create them. If Succession States had the ability to create facilities on the level of DefHes from scratch, the entire IS would be covered in such facilities, so relocating existing assets is the best you can do, and it would be a pain in the ass:

It is by far more easy to relocate your capital, since that mainly involves moving people into new buildings and station garrisons around it. You really only need to create office space and communication systems... the worst thing here might be dealing with living quarters that are not as nice and luxurious as the ones you left behind.
Doesn't mean relocating your capital is a cakewalk, but putting a few bureaucrats and their paperwork into a couple DropShips and hauling them off a few dozen lightyears is way more easy than trying to hollow out an entire mountain's worth of underground Mech-production facilities and set up new shops in a place that might not even be capable of supplying the necessary raw materials and tech to restart production without building all that up first, which might in turn be an undertaking spanning generations.

And needless to say: That whole process of relocating those facilities would mean production ceases for quite some time.
You need to pack up all your stuff, all machinery, all your stored components, raw materials, partially finished products, everything. You need to ship it across the IS, do god knows how many runs back and forth to ferry everything to the new location and then hope everything made the journey without getting misplaced, broken or lost. Just one wrong barcode on a shipping container might mean you don't have a part of your assembly line and it'll take forever to find that container, dig up the stuff you need and continue with everything... and all this is assuming that you can even move everything that's important. Might as well be that some core aspects of the facilities and assembly lines in question are simply impossible to pack up and transport.
Silly example, but a friend of mine has a huge ancient fridge in his basement that was put there before the house was built on top. It is simply impossible to move that thing out of said basement, cause both stairways are too narrow.
So anyone planning to relocate his weapon production lines would need to spend absurd amounts of resources to prepare the new location and then wait (possibly for years!) until the new site ramps up production. And if anyone gets wind of any of this going on (and keep in mind, the planning alone could take DECADES, so plenty of time for someone to learn about it), this whole thing could become a desaster.

Just imagine someone successfully managing to intercept a jumpship carrying part of the DefHes haul. If it gets destroyed, it's bad, if it gets captured, it's even worse.
Putting together a protective naval force to accompany these hauls will leave every other area at risk of being attacked. It would slow down things even more.

Operation U-Haul would take years to be finished and production being at previous levels.

So yeah...
"We'll just pour all our economic surplus into relocating one of our military weapons production facilities, which will take decades to plan out and prepare for, which will mean production of those facilities will simply stop for a couple years during which we relocate everything and it has a decent risk of something going horribly wrong."
-vs.-
"Like... put another couple dozen turrets and a few minebelts around the factories, we'll double the size of the local garrison and keep a few battalions in close systems on standby."
Thank you for all the detail. I really couldn't be assed to type all of that out, so thank you very much.
 
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So yeah...
"We'll just pour all our economic surplus into relocating one of our military weapons production facilities, which will take decades to plan out and prepare for, which will mean production of those facilities will simply stop for a couple years during which we relocate everything and it has a decent risk of something going horribly wrong."
-vs.-
"Like... put another couple dozen turrets and a few minebelts around the factories, we'll double the size of the local garrison and keep a few battalions in close systems on standby."
I think it depends on the size of the facility. Trying to relocate the Hesperus factories is impossible, given the fact WHERE they are located. A more simple Mech factory can be relocated (or at least part of the machinery). Case in point: the Tao Mechwork factory. When the Republic blasted the Confederation in the 3080's the Capellans managed to relocate the factory from Tao to Styx leaving the Republic basically an empty husk of a facility.

Though what a lot of houses also did during the Sw and in the lulöls: smash and grab raids on manufacturing sites. For example after the Fedcom civil War the Fedsuns raided Scarborough regularly for production runs of the Pegasus hovertank (instead of buying them as before because the Fedsuns were angry about the treatment of POW the combine took during the Civil War)
 
I think it depends on the size of the facility. Trying to relocate the Hesperus factories is impossible, given the fact WHERE they are located. A more simple Mech factory can be relocated (or at least part of the machinery). Case in point: the Tao Mechwork factory. When the Republic blasted the Confederation in the 3080's the Capellans managed to relocate the factory from Tao to Styx leaving the Republic basically an empty husk of a facility.

Though what a lot of houses also did during the Sw and in the lulöls: smash and grab raids on manufacturing sites. For example after the Fedcom civil War the Fedsuns raided Scarborough regularly for production runs of the Pegasus hovertank (instead of buying them as before because the Fedsuns were angry about the treatment of POW the combine took during the Civil War)
That's true. But I guess most facilities to really engage in large scale production of mechs would be often clustered around the center of the IS and be quite hard to relocate, whereas smaller facilities mainly used to make spare parts or a very narrow range of vehicels and mechs are deliberately kept close to the frontlines cause on one hand, they are easier to replace and on the other keeping transport ways short helps replenish losses at the frontlines.

In the latter case, relocating them to safer places would be a good idea, but on the other hand, the risk of them being raided is not that big and the worst aspect of a raid succeeding is less in losing material and more in the enemy gaining material, if you catch my drift.

Thank you for all the detail. I really couldn't be assed to type all of that out, so thank you very much.
It got a bit more wordy than I intended...
 
That's true. But I guess most facilities to really engage in large scale production of mechs would be often clustered around the center of the IS and be quite hard to relocate, whereas smaller facilities mainly used to make spare parts or a very narrow range of vehicels and mechs are deliberately kept close to the frontlines cause on one hand, they are easier to replace and on the other keeping transport ways short helps replenish losses at the frontlines.

In the latter case, relocating them to safer places would be a good idea, but on the other hand, the risk of them being raided is not that big and the worst aspect of a raid succeeding is less in losing material and more in the enemy gaining material, if you catch my drift.
You're assuming that military depots don't exist in the Inner Sphere, and that equipment goes straight from the factory to the frontlines. Despite the occasional Stalingrad-style "out of the factory, straight into the fight" events, militaries much prefer to gather and equip reinforcements/depleted units a good distance behind the frontlines. In BattleTech in particular, rotating whole units for R&R is preferable, since a unit is only likely to fight on a single planet at a time and military DropShips have maintenance facilities already. As for the logistics, cargo coming out planets is usually carried to the depots by civilian DropShips and JumpShips either belonging to or chartered by the manufacturers themselves. We don't hear much about those because the game is very much military-centric, but there is a very large amount of civilian traffic plying the space lanes. Civilian DropShips like Mules, Danais and Unions are very common, and large companies like Boeing, Defiance and even Quickscell would operate even larger DropShips like Mammoths to make their deliveries efficiently.

Anyway, raids on enemy production facilities within jump distance happen all the time in BattleTech. It's actually the main source of action in the setting between large-scale conflicts.

In the end, this is a narrative constraint more than a common sense issue. The setting needs cheap conflict and it's set up as such, so some decisions just can't be rationally justified. Why are there so many juicy manufacturing centers near contested borders, all packed with cargo just waiting to be plundered? Because the setting would be a lot more boring without them.
 
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So for a guy who wants to DM tabletop RPGs for this where should I go with? Especially for players who are interested in the setting but don't know what its about.
 
So for a guy who wants to DM tabletop RPGs for this where should I go with? Especially for players who are interested in the setting but don't know what its about.
If you can, get the old MechWarrior RPG books (First, Second or Third Edition), and/or A Time of War. These games give you a pretty decent idea of how the BattleTech universe looks like when you're on the ground. Any Solaris book, either for MechWarrior or BattleTech is also bound to give you a lot of fun background information. Solaris: The Reaches is a good example, if you can get the PDF somewhere. Avoid MechWarrior: Destiny like the plague, it's one of those GM-less "collaborative storytelling" games.

Whichever book you get your hands on, ignore the system itself, it's basically crap no matter the edition (IMO), and either homebrew something yourself, or use a generic RPG system for it. Which system to use depends on what you like the player characters to do when they're not piloting 'mechs. For something a little more grounded, go with something like... I don't know, Savage Worlds, maybe? For a more cinematic campaign where the MechWarriors are more like action heroes, something more freeform/narrative-centric like FATE might do the trick. BattleTech is not a very "exotic" setting when you're on foot, it's actually pretty hard sci-fi in most places, so you don't need a very in-depth system for it if you don't want one, you mostly just have to concern yourself with getting the fluff and the themes right.

And when the player characters do climb into 'Mechs... well, then you break out the BattleTech maps.
 
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Was it you or someone else who had murmured something about a conversion to Storyteller?
 
Was it you or someone else who had murmured something about a conversion to Storyteller?
I don't remember, actually. But I would recommend it.

Specifically, I would recommend the Chronicles of Darkness/Storytelling book. As opposed to the original Masquerade/Apocalypse/Ascension Storyteller system, you can play mortals (read: normal humans) just fine so it works as a solid generic system for when you're playing non-supernatural humans doing modern-day things. And BattleTech definitely fits the bill: sure, there are laser pistols, but by and large daily life in the 30th Century is the same as it is in the 20th Century. People still drive cars (and these cars only rarely fly), shoot guns, sneak around, break into places, use computers, lie to one another, and get into brawls.

I've run that system in demo games and one-shots and in my experience while combat can feel samey if all your players do is say "I stab the guy!", it's a very slick system to run with a very straightforward core mechanic of Stat + Skill or Stat + Stat, roll that number of d10s plus modifiers and 8+ is a success. It's also pretty flexible for when the players want to get creative with their combat maneuvers (shoving enemies out of windows, tripping, shooting pressurized canisters next to them...). Add/replace a couple of skills with Piloting and Gunnery if you want the characters to actually be MechWarriors, and you're good to go.
 
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Specifically, I would recommend the Chronicles of Darkness/Storytelling book. As opposed to the original Masquerade/Apocalypse/Ascension Storyteller system, you can play mortals (read: normal humans) just fine so it works as a solid generic system for when you're playing non-supernatural humans doing modern-day things.
It should be noted that that rulebook has been superseded by the Chronicles of Darkness: Revised Storytelling System Rulebook, which is the most up to date ruleset.

So for a guy who wants to DM tabletop RPGs for this where should I go with? Especially for players who are interested in the setting but don't know what its about.
The actual supported Battletech TTRPG game is the Mechwarrior RPG. The original RPG by FASA is simply known as the Mechwarrior RPG and there are three editions: MechWarrior: The BattleTech Role Playing Game, MechWarrior: The BattleTech Role Playing Game, Second Edition, and MechWarrior, Third Edition. Some quirks to note about the earlier editions: the First edition only goes up to the Third Succession War era while the Second Edition introduced the clans. Both of the first two editions outright expected you to be familiar with the rules of whatever the (then) most current edition of Battletech was if you wanted to do large battles and use mechs, which meant that you needed to buy yet more books and be familiar with multiple rulesets, and the First Edition was meant to be compatible with Battletroops for squad based combat. The first edition was almost entirely geared towards creating mechwarriors, in fact, to the detriment of every other potential character type and playstyle. The second edition was also criticized for allowing you to create elite mechwarriors without using any experience points. The third edition, the last edition FASA made, was an attempt to rectify all of these issues; it explicitly did not require you to be familiar with Battletech to play, you could make more than just mechwarriors, and mechwarriors could no longer be made without experience points. It used a character creation system that was identical to the one FASA original Star Trek roleplaying game employed. It was explicitly designed to fix many of Second Edition's issues. The main criticism is that its character creation is somewhat random, along with some apparent balancing issues.

After FASA lost the rights to WizKids, the latter company farmed out the rights to publish Battletech books to FanPro. It was FanPro who published the Classic Battletech RPG. This rpg is not a new edition of Mechwarrior, but is just a reprint of Third Edition, renamed so as not to be confused with WizKids other game line, Mechwarrior: Dark Age. The Battletech game itself was also renamed to Classic Battletech. The Classic Battletech RPG is basically interchangeable with Third Edition, with only the errata being different.

When Catalyst Game Labs (CGL) took over, they effectively rebooted the entire Battletech license with their Total Warfare rulebook. After that book, they released a series of core rulebooks to go along with it, one of which is A Time of War, which is essentially Mechwarrior, Fourth Edition under a new name (some fans still call it that). Its the newest version, with the newest ruleset and covering all eras up till the Jihad era (it doesn't technically cover the Dark Ages in the corebook, though that era is mentioned, and it shouldn't be hard to run a game in that era). A Time of War is extremely complex to run (character creation alone is right hard mess to follow), but it doesn't need you to be familiar with Battletech to run. you are probably better following @Corn Flakes advice and just running your own system and using the books to set the setting and design ships and mechs and such.
 
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So I'm about to drop 70 dollars on Minis from a company on Etsy called ModestMinisStudio kinda worried about scams and was wondering if anyone else ordered from them before?
No, but it looks both higher-quality and cheaper than the MWO prints I imported from fucking Russia a few years ago, so take that as you will. You seem to spend half your time on /btg/ anyway, so probably no harm in asking there.
 
So I'm about to drop 70 dollars on Minis from a company on Etsy called ModestMinisStudio kinda worried about scams and was wondering if anyone else ordered from them before?
No, I went through ScottyBoyShop to buy mine. More 3D prints for Battletech, cheaper price and the bases come included. The store is on a break though to catch up with orders until further notice.
 
It should be noted that that rulebook has been superseded by the Chronicles of Darkness: Revised Storytelling System Rulebook, which is the most up to date ruleset.
Well, shit. I had tabs open for both the OG book and the revised version and I copied the address off the wrong one.

Anyway, that was a very good writeup on the history of the MechWarrior RPGs. Those have always been a mess, and I have never seen anyone actually playing them. BattleTech is complex (not difficult, just complex) enough as it is, trying to tack a simulationist RPG on top of it was just too much.
 
So I said fucked it and bought my models, should have the shit in two weeks.
 

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So I'm about to drop 70 dollars on Minis from a company on Etsy called ModestMinisStudio kinda worried about scams and was wondering if anyone else ordered from them before?
They are good, I got a few off them.

Waiting on paint jobs my friend does mine for dirt cheap and because I'm medically retarded with paint.

Locally now we are meeting IRL again, had this odd fetish of poor mercs and mostly running Vees it's been fun but gosh when a centi is like clearing battle field... feels odd.
 
Stupid question for battletech/mechwarrior experts. Why haven't the clans swtiched to 100% artificial births? If lab grown people are healthier and have better reflexes why isn't every clan citizen a lab grown super human? Is the process too labor or resource intensive?
 
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