Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

Stupid question for battletech/mechwarrior experts. Why haven't the clans swtiched to 100% artificial births? If lab grown people are healthier and have better reflexes why isn't every clan citizen a lab grown super human? Is the process too labor or resource intensive?
It's too expensive, yes. And they don't see it as necessary. Your average civilian doesn't need the strength, endurance and reflexes of a MechWarrior, and even for heavy physical labor there are enough Elemental washouts and their Laborer caste descendants to pick up the slack.

Also, the Clans put a ridiculous amount of prestige on being Trueborn (read: canister-born). If everybody was allowed to be one, their Warrior caste wouldn't be as special as they want to be.
 
The Clan trueborn breeding programs in general are somewhat vaguely defined, and there were implications that the Bloodnamed weren't the only contributors (Natasha Kerensky comments in Lethal Heritage that no Clan wants to rule out 'diamonds in the rough' among possible bondsmen and freeborn).

Then you got into the intense amount of fuckery that the Society was up to, which ended in many Clans purging the fuck out of their Scientist castes.
 
The Clan trueborn breeding programs in general are somewhat vaguely defined, and there were implications that the Bloodnamed weren't the only contributors (Natasha Kerensky comments in Lethal Heritage that no Clan wants to rule out 'diamonds in the rough' among possible bondsmen and freeborn).
Freeborn who display exceptional valor and skill absolutely get brought into the Clan's eugenics systems. Usually by having their genetic makeup added to an existing Bloodname, which is how they add genetic variance (literally, new blood) to a Warrior bloodline, but the IlKhan has the power to just declare the creation of a new bloodname if a Freeborn's achievements are impressive enough. Even the most radical hardline Trueborn-or-Bust Clans end up getting some of that fresh genetic material over time as they fight for other Clans' genetic legacies.

Then you got into the intense amount of fuckery that the Society was up to, which ended in many Clans purging the fuck out of their Scientist castes.
I'm convinced the whole Society plotline was just an excuse for the Home Clans to not make an appearance in the Inner Sphere, ever.
 
  • Feels
Reactions: Bassomatic
Also, the Clans put a ridiculous amount of prestige on being Trueborn (read: canister-born). If everybody was allowed to be one, their Warrior caste wouldn't be as special as they want to be.
It should say something how high they hold this honor and being a proper mech warrior still, instead of being pushed up the ladder like the IS or real world where even old man Vic Davion, Adam Steiner etc became leaders teachers etc.

When you are getting a gold watch, the clanners strap you into a Hunchback 2c and batchall an entire merc company just to keep the warrior class seen more noble.

None of this applies to Natty K, she's fucking incredible, and one of the best mech jocks period, remember she was killing 4+ generations of better bred. She's like if you took a man off waterloo's battle field and one handed pounded down Seal team 6.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RomanesEuntDomus
It should say something how high they hold this honor and being a proper mech warrior still, instead of being pushed up the ladder like the IS or real world where even old man Vic Davion, Adam Steiner etc became leaders teachers etc.

When you are getting a gold watch, the clanners strap you into a Hunchback 2c and batchall an entire merc company just to keep the warrior class seen more noble.

None of this applies to Natty K, she's fucking incredible, and one of the best mech jocks period, remember she was killing 4+ generations of better bred. She's like if you took a man off waterloo's battle field and one handed pounded down Seal team 6.
Oh, the way the Clans handle things is incredibly fucked from an actual military perspective. Constant low-level warfare like in Clan Space? Works great to run all your soldiers off an assembly line with planned obsolescence every 10 years or so. Inner Sphere where you never know just when you're going to lose a battalion of your best men? Better have plenty of older reservists around for an emergency. Its why when shit went down thanks to Tukayyid the Happy Merchants were able to yank all their retirees out of the Merchant Caste (no, seriously, anyone deemed too old to fight properly got arguably a promotion given how they operate) and have them fill out their ranks with some still quite capable soldiers. The Clans also don't even think about putting all their old and/or wounded vets in charge of sibko training, relegating that to the fuckups of the Warrior Caste. Its a miracle they learn anything, really.

Also, keep in mind Phelan Kell himself points out how capable the older vets are when he first winds up in Clan space. He says his old man who hasn't touched a mech in years thanks to retiring to a monastery could still kick his ass just as soon as he hopped into Tempest. Better bred only takes you so far when old age and treachery beat youth and skill, after all. The Clans also only spawn a new "generation" from the tanks every few years, so those 4+ generations of new warriors is... 45 years. She may have been 77 when the Invasion started but the past 45 years had been spent with her 'Mech knee deep in wreckage in a level of warfare your average Clanner literally couldn't even imagine. Instead of a Waterloo vet beating the shit out of Seal Team Six think of it more like a retired MACV-SOG guy who learned the hard way how to use a live cobra as an improvised weapon in the jungles of Vietnam going up against a bunch of rookies fresh out of UDT.
 
Last edited:
Fun fact speaking Phelan, my first ever BT novel was start of his whole going clan saga.

Clans are interesting, and I enjoy them but I will never not say not pants on head on their behavior. A lot of the clans go off, FASAnomics but also their next to no market system. Look you got 10 people mining for metal, so that will be there, then someone whos life is making armor so that will happen, then some tech to install it.. so being shot up, someone will fix your armor. In many ways the economy of the clans aside (((diamond shark))) is based off war. Nothing else, and part of me says it's the 90s writing speaking out about the real world industrual mil complex.

Being the clans have so little value for life, say one went peaceful or couldn't jump to a war, they would kill the 10 miners before the one warrior.

Granted it all being pants on head but smashy robots is part of joy of BT. Speaking of that this thurs, when I have my night with friends, I'll have 1 more banshee to play with, god I love them.
 
Being the clans have so little value for life, say one went peaceful or couldn't jump to a war, they would kill the 10 miners before the one warrior.
Its all Flower War shit. Its not that they have so little value for life, but that the war itself is the point. Take away the war, and the warrior will kill himself. Blame this faggot for why everything is so fucked up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bassomatic
Its all Flower War shit. Its not that they have so little value for life, but that the war itself is the point. Take away the war, and the warrior will kill himself. Blame this faggot for why everything is so fucked up.
While I'm a clan wolf fan boy, Nicky K is a furry and did EVERY THING wrong.
 
The Clan way of "warfare" worked great for them, because its ritualized nature heavily emphasized conservation of resources. Sure, 'Mechs were destroyed and Warriors occasionally died, but deliberately attempting to kill an enemy MechWarrior (aiming for the head, for example) was discouraged, and defeated units that retained zellbrigen through the engagement were always allowed to retreat. It clearly wasn't all that lethal, because taking bondsmen was routine and Clan Warriors also survived into their 30s and got dumped out of the frontlines in favor of the new generation often enough for the Clans to bulk up their solahma infantry units with them. And keep in mind a single Infantry Star is 125 soldiers. If even only 10% of them are older or washed-up warriors, it's still a lot of MechWarriors and Elementals surviving likely dozens of battles before being forced out of the frontline Galaxies.

So the Clans got to settle their disputes by ritually shooting one another, batchall bidding rules encouraged minimal use of force by both sides, logistics chains were extremely short and simple, and the vital infrastructure and civilian population in the sometimes barely-inhabitable Clan homeworlds were preserved even after being captured and recaptured multiple times. Even destroyed 'Mechs were either repaired or cannibalized, with parts being reused over and over again so long as they were still functional. The system did the job for them so long as they were all following the rules, since they were all technically under the rule of a single entity: the Clan Council and the ilKhan.

Then they invaded the Inner Sphere, who didn't play by the rules. And the Clans invaded without any up-to-date intel beyond what ComStar gave them since the Wolf's Dragoons had bailed on their original recon mission 30 years earlier. And we all know how it went: predictably poorly.
 
The Clan way of "warfare" worked great for them, because its ritualized nature heavily emphasized conservation of resources. Sure, 'Mechs were destroyed and Warriors occasionally died, but deliberately attempting to kill an enemy MechWarrior (aiming for the head, for example) was discouraged, and defeated units that retained zellbrigen through the engagement were always allowed to retreat. It clearly wasn't all that lethal, because taking bondsmen was routine and Clan Warriors also survived into their 30s and got dumped out of the frontlines in favor of the new generation often enough for the Clans to bulk up their solahma infantry units with them. And keep in mind a single Infantry Star is 125 soldiers. If even only 10% of them are older or washed-up warriors, it's still a lot of MechWarriors and Elementals surviving likely dozens of battles before being forced out of the frontline Galaxies.

So the Clans got to settle their disputes by ritually shooting one another, batchall bidding rules encouraged minimal use of force by both sides, logistics chains were extremely short and simple, and the vital infrastructure and civilian population in the sometimes barely-inhabitable Clan homeworlds were preserved even after being captured and recaptured multiple times. Even destroyed 'Mechs were either repaired or cannibalized, with parts being reused over and over again so long as they were still functional. The system did the job for them so long as they were all following the rules, since they were all technically under the rule of a single entity: the Clan Council and the ilKhan.

Then they invaded the Inner Sphere, who didn't play by the rules. And the Clans invaded without any up-to-date intel beyond what ComStar gave them since the Wolf's Dragoons had bailed on their original recon mission 30 years earlier. And we all know how it went: predictably poorly.
Eh. I really hated that part of clan lore. To me it makes no sense the Clans didn't just use warships (which no IS house had) to destroy the majority of IS forces using their technology edge Gulf War Style while Trueborn warriors piloting Omnimechs and Elementals take the role of SOF units, dropping into planets, blowing up objectives then bugging out and letting garrison forces worry about occupying the now unguarded planet. I feel the clans needed a few more months of writing before they actually revealed them. Tuykyid was pretty awesome though, they needed more of that kind of meatgrinder.

I really hope they retcon the Jihad era. The Clans deserved a better civil war.
 
Eh. I really hated that part of clan lore. To me it makes no sense the Clans didn't just use warships (which no IS house had) to destroy the majority of IS forces using their technology edge Gulf War Style while Trueborn warriors piloting Omnimechs and Elementals take the role of SOF units, dropping into planets, blowing up objectives then bugging out and letting garrison forces worry about occupying the now unguarded planet. I feel the clans needed a few more months of writing before they actually revealed them. Tuykyid was pretty awesome though, they needed more of that kind of meatgrinder.
See, the problem is: the Clans were never meant to win. Narratively speaking, they were never going to get their objective. FASA didn't start with "hey, let's logically build this bunch of ruthless, highly efficient warriors. fling them at the Coreward edge of the Inner Sphere, and believably wargame what happens". Their starting point was "how do we create an alien culture that feels like an existential threat to the Inner Sphere, without actually breaking the balance of power in any way so we still have a setting when we're done with this storyline?", and then they kept working from there. (Spoiler alert: the same thing happened to the Federated Commonwealth. It was never meant to last, it was just a vehicle for the FedCom Civil War storyline.)

That's why the Clans are so unrelentingly irrational to the point of stupidity. They were hobbled by author fiat, and their entire culture was designed to fit that mold. As you said, the Clans could have demolished any Inner Sphere force in their way, JumpShips and all (remember: the SLDF left before the Succession Wars made destruction of JumpShips taboo), with sheer naval power. They could drop an entire Galaxy on a planet, destroy all military opposition in days (particularly any DropShips defenders could use to try to escape), and then drop garrison troops to mop up. But they couldn't do that, because the writers wouldn't allow it.

I know it's a "meta" interpretation of the setting, but it really is the only explanation for how the Clans work. The Clans are, both in-universe and in a meta sense, an artificial threat to the Inner Sphere. That's why their constraints don't make any sense. As opposed to starting with a premise and reaching a conclusion, the Clans' interactions with the Inner Sphere are written conclusion-first, and then the premise is engineered to make sure that conclusion is reached. This gets even more obvious when you look at the actual scale of the game: Clans can take over an entire planet with only 25-50 'Mechs. We kill more than that in just a handful of missions in any MechWarrior game.

I really hope they retcon the Jihad era. The Clans deserved a better civil war.
So do I, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about it. The chances of anything getting retconned in such a large scale are basically nil.
 
Eh. I really hated that part of clan lore. To me it makes no sense the Clans didn't just use warships (which no IS house had) to destroy the majority of IS forces using their technology edge Gulf War Style while Trueborn warriors piloting Omnimechs and Elementals take the role of SOF units, dropping into planets, blowing up objectives then bugging out and letting garrison forces worry about occupying the now unguarded planet. I feel the clans needed a few more months of writing before they actually revealed them. Tuykyid was pretty awesome though, they needed more of that kind of meatgrinder.

I really hope they retcon the Jihad era. The Clans deserved a better civil war.
They did. As soon as the Drac resistance forces proved a little too capable on a planet named Turtle Bay the Smoke Jaguars vaporized an entire city just to ensure there would be no more resistance. That said, even with what the dude above me posted, they're surprisingly realistic despite being created backwards. Yeah, they were obviously set up to fail, but things are reasonably consistent as to how and why they fail. Its certainly better than 40k where despite being a dying race with no hope of reclaiming any greatness the Eldar die like Guardsmen whenever something might threaten the status quo.

Also, the Society and Wars of Reaving were dumb as fuck, but the Homeworlders weren't wrong about the IS Clans being "tainted". One of the books I read years ago so I forget the name of it was about an Elemental (I believe a Ghost Bear) who had grown up in Clan Space show up in the IS post-Tukayyid when things had settled down, and an "old" friend of his invites him to sit down and have a drink with him at a corner cafe. And then starts dropping contractions as casually as a rapper drops f-bombs. The protag was quite unamused by his friend's casual vulgarity.
 
  • DRINK!
Reactions: RomanesEuntDomus
[...] even with what the dude above me posted, they're surprisingly realistic despite being created backwards. Yeah, they were obviously set up to fail, but things are reasonably consistent as to how and why they fail. Its certainly better than 40k where despite being a dying race with no hope of reclaiming any greatness the Eldar die like Guardsmen whenever something might threaten the status quo.
I might have sounded salty about the way the Clans were written, but I actually like the Clans as a concept for the reasons you stated: the writers started with the conclusion and wrote their way backwards to the premise, but they did it well. They clearly put in the effort. The Clans can be infuriating because their irrational actions are usually justified by something in their backstory. Sometimes it feels a little flimsy, but when we remember how small the Clans started out (there were only 200 Clan warriors in total when Nicky K. was done reshuffling what was left of the SLDF after the second exodus, and that's all they had to conquer the Pentagon Worlds with) and how desperate their beginnings were, it starts to make sense why they became such a weirdly structured society.

And when the authors are given enough leeway to play around with the logical conclusions of what the Clans are and what they do do, we can get some pretty good stories. That's why I think the Diamond Sharks and the Ghost Bears are so interesting. The Sharks' evolution into fully mostly spaceborne nomadic merchants and the Bears' fusion with the Rasalhague civil structure were great logical developments of their original concepts (the trader clan and the stability-centric clan). Even the Green Chickens Jade Falcons becoming the ultimate evolution of their original "uncompromising hardliners" concept with Malvina Hazen driving them to near destruction felt like a neat development to me.

In the end they did what they were meant to do: they shook up the status quo and added more options to the game. The big problem with them was how unbalanced they were in terms of actual game rules, but that has very little bearing on their lore.

Also, the Society and Wars of Reaving were dumb as fuck, but the Homeworlders weren't wrong about the IS Clans being "tainted". One of the books I read years ago so I forget the name of it was about an Elemental (I believe a Ghost Bear) who had grown up in Clan Space show up in the IS post-Tukayyid when things had settled down, and an "old" friend of his invites him to sit down and have a drink with him at a corner cafe. And then starts dropping contractions as casually as a rapper drops f-bombs. The protag was quite unamused by his friend's casual vulgarity.
The Society was dumb as hell with how they managed to do all that shit completely under the Warrior caste's nose (remember: the Watch was a Warrior organization, and despite their terrible intel on the IS, the Clans were usually good at sniffing out unrest), but the Home Clans doing another culling made sense to me. I don't expect them to ever make an appearance in the Inner Sphere (and I really hope they don't), but I'd be interested in seeing how they develop with only four isolated (and mostly weakened) Clans controlling the entirety of the Clan Homeworlds.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RomanesEuntDomus
I might have sounded salty about the way the Clans were written, but I actually like the Clans as a concept for the reasons you stated: the writers started with the conclusion and wrote their way backwards to the premise, but they did it well. They clearly put in the effort. The Clans can be infuriating because their irrational actions are usually justified by something in their backstory. Sometimes it feels a little flimsy, but when we remember how small the Clans started out (there were only 200 Clan warriors in total when Nicky K. was done reshuffling what was left of the SLDF after the second exodus, and that's all they had to conquer the Pentagon Worlds with) and how desperate their beginnings were, it starts to make sense why they became such a weirdly structured society.

And when the authors are given enough leeway to play around with the logical conclusions of what the Clans are and what they do do, we can get some pretty good stories. That's why I think the Diamond Sharks and the Ghost Bears are so interesting. The Sharks' evolution into fully spaceborne normadic merchants and the Bears' fusion with the Rasalhague civil structure were great logical developments of their original concepts (the trader clan and the stability-centric clan). Even the Green Chickens Jade Falcons becoming the ultimate evolution of their original "uncompromising hardliners" concept with Malvina Hazen driving them to near destruction felt like a neat development to me.


The Society was dumb as hell with how they managed to do all that shit completely under the Warrior caste's nose (remember: the Watch was a Warrior organization, and despite their terrible intel on the IS, the Clans were usually good at sniffing out unrest), but the Home Clans doing another culling made sense to me. I don't expect them to ever make an appearance in the Inner Sphere (and I really hope they don't), but I'd be interested in seeing how they develop with only four isolated (and mostly weakened) Clans controlling the entirety of the Clan Homeworlds.
The reason the Watch was shit was because it was where most of the washouts of the warrior caste ended up, who generally didn’t really see their job as anything but a shame and thus didn’t really assume anyone could do things like “lie.” Clan culture encourages honesty, and abhorres deception. And clanners are great at self delusion. The Society is dumb but it’s easier to understand when you consider the scientist caste was given a lot of leeway in clan society because of how vital they were for the breeding program. It’s a sort of fridge logic.
 
The Sharks' evolution into fully spaceborne normadic merchants
They're only mostly spaceborn, actually. They maintain a fair bit of planet-based infrastructure scattered around.

3130​

  • Capital: ilKhanate ArcShip Poseidon, no home system
  • Locations (Terra relative): Various worlds and spaceborne colonies scattered across the Inner Sphere
  • Total (Inhabited) Systems: 3 total control; 14 world enclaves
  • Estimated Population (3130): 428,670,000
  • Government: Clan (caste-driven, warrior/merchant-dominant hierarchy)
  • Ruler: Khan Mori Hawker
Ground-bound enclaves are protected by Shoal Clusters. These Clusters, staffed by retired warrior-merchants and cadets, serve multiple roles. In addition to their traditional defensive duties, Shoal Cluster warriors are called upon to pilot IndustrialMechs in support of their enclave's activities. They additionally serve as test pilots for new or experimental designs.

As the exact number of Sea Fox enclaves is unknown—and indeed, fluctuates substantially—it is unknown how many Shoal Clusters are fielded by Clan Sea Fox.
 
They're only mostly spaceborn, actually. They maintain a fair bit of planet-based infrastructure scattered around.
My bad, I was referring to the Clan's main presence. Yes, they have planetside infrastructure but we know the focus of their activities is the merchant fleet. I didn't expect them to have half a billion people scattered around, though. That's more people than the entire population of a lot of planets, and Clanners tend to have fairly low populations condensed in smaller areas. Either way, I stand corrected.

I didn't know their retired warriors still got to ride around in IndustrialMechs, either. Now I wonder if Clan-operated WorkMechs have proper neurohelmet interfaces, just to give these old warriors and young cadets something to practice with between proper BattleMech exercises.

The reason the Watch was shit was because it was where most of the washouts of the warrior caste ended up, who generally didn’t really see their job as anything but a shame and thus didn’t really assume anyone could do things like “lie.” Clan culture encourages honesty, and abhorres deception. And clanners are great at self delusion. The Society is dumb but it’s easier to understand when you consider the scientist caste was given a lot of leeway in clan society because of how vital they were for the breeding program. It’s a sort of fridge logic.
The Society being able to sneak around was fine, my problem is how much heavy military equipment and personnel they had available to them. I know the game is about Giant Stompy Robots, but if there was a conflict in BattleTech that should have been operated as an insurgency and a low-level civil war instead of full-on Giant Stompy Robot warfare, that's the one.
 
My bad, I was referring to the Clan's main presence. Yes, they have planetside infrastructure but we know the focus of their activities is the merchant fleet. I didn't expect them to have half a billion people scattered around, though. That's more people than the entire population of a lot of planets, and Clanners tend to have fairly low populations condensed in smaller areas. Either way, I stand corrected.

I didn't know their retired warriors still got to ride around in IndustrialMechs, either. Now I wonder if Clan-operated WorkMechs have proper neurohelmet interfaces, just to give these old warriors and young cadets something to practice with between proper BattleMech exercises.
Well, keep in mind they've managed to stay out of all the big wars while selling weapons to everyone with the money, so they fact they have that many people shouldn't be a surprise. They don't even fight 'Mech duels to destruction anymore, just the first lost limb. Although in 3135 when shit started going down they lost those worlds, so who knows how many got evacuated versus left behind.
 
They did. As soon as the Drac resistance forces proved a little too capable on a planet named Turtle Bay the Smoke Jaguars vaporized an entire city just to ensure there would be no more resistance.
The thing is though the Warships were never meant to play any big role in Clan warfare. Orbital bombardment of troops is deemed "honorless" and destroying infrastructure by Orbital Bombardment is deemed "wasteful". The Jaguars were condemned by the other Clans for their excessive use of force over Turtle bay. That's also the reason why most clans crew their Warships with tecvhnician castes under the command of a few warriors (probably except the Snow Ravens and Clioud Cobras). This attitude changed after the IS won the Great Refusal and went into "Bomb first ask question later" during the Wars of Reaving (they justified it with the "taint")

And the Society had not much military equpment per se. They had some manufacturing sites (ironically they build their own Mechs at the site of the very first Omnimech). most of their equpment came out of old Brian Caches since they had managed to get the access codes. And those weapons were mostly old Starleague Mechs and vehicles. But yeah I would have thought tht the society would more bring the Clans with their genetic cocktails to their knees (they had some good working poisons at hand that could wipe out clanners from a specific bloodline or even the ultimate Armageddon virus: Kill all Trueborns)
 
Illegal Warfare.png

I regret absolutely nothing by sharing this.
 
Back