Right. But it showed that he cannot have any friends because they become hostages for the cartel. If he only hires people he does not care about to the point where if they mess up he can slit their throats with a box cutter. It is less mental stress. When Gale died he just moved on to the next day of work. Gus knows that family and friends are easy targets for the cartels and can be used against use as huge leverage. Walt and Mike learn this the hard way pretty early in their cartel careers. Jesse learns it late.
Gus wants revenge for Max but he is also extremely pragmatic. And is willing to let his enemies live for long periods of time as long there is peace. And he will plan his revenge very slowly and not jeopardize his holdings or his business or drug empire over vengeance. Which was the exact opposite of Walt and Jesse who would kill anyone and everyone over what were usually petty nothings in the drug game. Gus also will let his enemies live in destitution instead of killing them as well which backfires tremendously.
Gus cannot be friends with the waiter or fag lovers with him because it would mean another thing that the cartel would have over him. Because his waiter friend could end up dead like Howard or being held hostage like Jimmy or Kim by some maniac like Lalo. So Gus cannot take the chance like he did with Max.
Gus cannot be friends with the waiter or fag lovers with him because it would mean another thing that the cartel would have over him. Because his waiter friend could end up dead like Howard or being held hostage like Jimmy or Kim by some maniac like Lalo. So Gus cannot take the chance like he did with Max.
Wow, first post from you I completely agree with after thinking you were just a complete contrarian dick who would gainsay anything on the show for the sake of it. Anyway, they've never even really established Gus as a fag. I mean I think it's obvious, as they would say "coded" that way, but this would be equally valid as just saying Gus can't even have friends.
They'd get killed. They'd get taken hostage. He can have nothing like a normal life. However, a lot of that is that his prime desire is revenge. Not only would any friend or lover be a source of leverage over him, it would be a distraction from his only remaining life goal.
And Boetticher hasn't even been killed yet.
For most people, creating a vastly successful restaurant franchise would be their life goal and that's why they'd do it. For Gus, creating a vastly successful restaurant franchise was just one step on the road to revenge.
First time I ever followed a forum talking about a tv program. I don't watch tv. I don't post on forums either. Well, ok, sometimes.
Lots of good takes here. Learned a few good things. Only thing I can offer up as a real observation is the scene between the 'Don' and Gus. The pool scene where Gus thinks he's got away with it when the Don sends Salamanca back to his pod. He tells him that he looked in to his eyes and saw hate. He's no fool. The eyes Chico, they never lie!
Don Eladio Vuente (played by Steven Bauer) is the head of a drug cartel in Ciudad Juárez which includes Juan Bolsa, Hector Salamanca, and Salamanca's nephews. He first met Gus Fring twenty years prior to the start of the series, when Gus and his partner Max proposed producing methamphetamine for the cartel. Unimpressed by their pitch, Eladio declined because the cartel preferred to continue distributing cocaine. After the meeting, Eladio had Hector execute Max as retaliation for manipulating him into a meeting, but spared Gus's life due to an unrevealed but powerful connection to Chile.
This was a nice play and a clever parallel to the Godfather of all gangster films: Scarface. They are giving an old timer a break, and to be fair, he is pretty fucking menacing if you never met him before. Gus looks scared anyway. And so he should be. It's wonderful theatre. Gus has fooled the whole Salamanca crew. But he hasn't fooled us. Oh, look, he didn't really fool the whole Salamanca crew after all. Don Eladio got his number. But he knows what's good for business.
Brain meets brawn meets instincts meets information available. It's a vicious soup where no one trusts anyone else. No one. And even Bolsa can only muster a faint smile when Don Eladio does his mocking impression of senior Salamanca and his bell. I got to say. The way he played that bell was fucking exceptional.
Nothing really gets resolved. I'm sure the heart attack of Bob didn't help. But they swerved around it with aplomb. I bet those anti-fragile motherfuckers even made things better in part because of it. Damn, I'd like to see another spin off serious just for Howard. NGL Fam, hit hard when old Lalo pulled the trigger on that one.
That hurt. It hurt even more than Nacho taking the easy way out. One you weren't kind of expecting, but the other, you really were not fucking expecting at all. I'll give them that license.
Howard really wasn't a bad guy. Just like Chuck. They both got caught up in the whirlwind that was Jimmy and Kim. There really isn't a satisfying answer as to why they did all that shit to Howard, apart from the obvious. It's never explained. Perhaps Kim and Jimmy weren't above petty jealousy. But I tend to think they were more just going after shits and giggles, that it wasn't malicious, per se.
Howard is probably one of the top 10 characters I would like to see a spin-off happen from. First there is his natural charisma. He is polite and attentive to his cunt of a wife. He's even patient with Jimmy. His smile his so false - he's a good American boy - but that's also the thing that makes us warm to him so much. He's got a certain menace, but it's never played out. I'd say this character has a lot of mileage left yet.
The guy that finished him off as well - Lalo - well, he's pretty much a book that has been written. But what I wouldn't give to see the previous chapters where he terrorised probably whole towns with the chopping off of heads and whatnot. Many a modern cartel leader is less charismatic than him. Bet he could pull off some shit if he wanted.
Yeah, Kim was a great supporting actor. She was always painted in to a corner really. The scene of her as a young child and her mum playing the jewellery store owner to get her off was a good one. I'd like to see more of Kim's mum in fact, as well as Kim. That's another spin off waiting to happen.
Sometimes, you just hit the mother fucking motherlode. The writers/producers/actors did with this one. You could tap this seam and keep going for a hundred fucking years. You'd never get to the bottom of it. And that is why the 'ending' will most probably disappoint most people, son.
I'm not sure we will see any more spin offs now. Though the writers I think did cocktease that one might happen.
I'd love to see them strip it right back. I'd love to see them follow up on all those German motherfuckers that were digging that Glory Hole for Gus and the boys. I'd like to see Mike go back and grill every one of them. See Lalo torture every single one of them. Alas, some of that won't happen now.
Yeah, Mike. Couldn't get enough of him. For me, his most harrowing scene is where he gets a bit headfucked about something and takes it out on the thing he loves most - his little grand daugher is it? - he feels so bad he goes out to get himself beaten up by a pack of niggers. But even that comes good in the end. He did the crime and he payed the time on that one. He's quiet and always one step ahead, yet Lalo outpaced him at the very end. And Gus outpaced everyone to win that particular end scene where he puts the gun under the tractor. It's as if he knows. He does not know. Like an animal he is going on instinct. I always wondered how that scene would come good. But it did.
I'm not sure Gus is a faggot. Might be wrong. I think he's at another level up again. He's asexual. Not in to any of that stuff. His buzz is the kill, the betterment, the game. That's why he drives Lyle so hard. He doesn't know if he can take it. But he will make him or break him in the process. Lyle comes good.
I really enjoyed the end Wine scene with all its faggotry. It was something else. I must admit I have only watched this in spits and spots so to speak. I was hoping for it to go further. But it couldn't. It had already portrayed what it wanted to. Gus leaving for me was not a sign of him winning over his inner faggotry, but just that he had bigger fish to fry. There he was, made it. Being taken seriously by a fairly charismatic fellow who seemed to enjoy his rare company. But no matter. Business to do. No hard feelings. Coupla hundred bucks under the wine glass. Sometimes a glass of wine is just a glass of wine. I want to (not) believe.
Giancarlo is a great actor. I think he even directed one of the later BCS episodes here as well. He's no mug. What he brings in neutrality he can bring in menace, and he can bring that in comedy as well if required.
I agree that the remaining 4 episodes don't leave much space to iron this shit out. But I have faith. Hopefully they will wrap up the most important points.
And for any danglers left, well, I think you could do a good 3 or 4 spinoffs from this franchise yet.
I don't watch TV (don't have TV). Never watch films. But this is as good as it gets.
I'm not sure Gus is a faggot. Might be wrong. I think he's at another level up again. He's asexual. Not in to any of that stuff. His buzz is the kill, the betterment, the game. That's why he drives Lyle so hard. He doesn't know if he can take it. But he will make him or break him in the process. Lyle comes good.
I don't know. Gus always came across as someone who was attracted to those he could have an intelligent conversation with. Or at least those that showed ambition.
Just look at the people he showed interest in.
Max-Foresaw the meth boom, was the driving force behind the original pitch.
Gale-Fuckin' Nerd. The Libertarian bent intrigued Gus.
Walt-Gus respected Walt at first. No illusions but Walt's pride ruined that respect.
Mike-Takes no shit. Scrappy and resourceful.
Lalo-Gus was intrigued until he realised that Lalo was a massive threat.
Wine guy-Knew his wine.
I was discussing this with a person in the real world before but I finally figured out why Jimmy goes after Howard. Chuck called this out in Jimmy's psychology: he will do something bad, then make a song and dance about it then go back to doing bad things. The scene with "lightning bolts shoot from my fingertips" is a great example. He feels bad about working for Lalo, he makes a song and dance out of it by looking at the victims and then when he feels like he's eased his guilt he curses out Howard for daring to pity him. We're all kind of fooled by Jimmy's likeability but I geniunely think he wants to do bad things and that's just why he went after Howard, because Howard pitied him and because he sees himself as above Howard for having cartel connections. Or maybe it's because he knows he killed Chuck and is mad that Howard not only took responsibility but emerged a better man for it
Look at it with Kim. When Kim is going girlboss mode he feels bad about it, he looks all mopey that he's corrupted his love then he's back to tonguing her when they embarass Howard. Howard gets killed, he looks all mopey then when they're cleaning up the bodies he cracks a slight smirk at his new fridge. Similar to when he ruined Chuck. He doesn't have as much empathy now as we think he does. Like when Chuck dies he pins all the blame on Lalo to try to keep Kim. He's a geniunely pretty bad person and everyone was kinda right about him in the end
I think the finale will be similar to Breaking Bad. I think Gene's "I'll deal with it myself" will refer to him putting on a big song and dance the mall using the intercom, maybe putting the suits back on and giving everyone the razzle dazzle, then turning himself in and telling the cops about not only everything he knew about the Heisenberg empire but also finally admitting his part in the cartel. This can end in him sort of admitting and forgiving himself for killing Chuck and Howard. As well as maybe phoning Mike's family to admit he worked with the guy who killed him and knew what was done with the body. Could be very cathartic
another thing I want to note is how perfectly they bring us to the status quo of breaking bad. i was often wondering why Mike is so loyal to Gus but they set it up with his need to make money to keep his family secure, for example moving them out the house because of Stacey's paranoia and his guilt at causing his son's death, but they also show how his code is why he's with Gus and his code is what gets him killed. He's deluded himself into believing he'll be able to bring honor to the criminal world if he stays in it. It also explains why him and Jimmy are further apart by BrBa. His disgust at having to bury Howard twice definitely fucked with him and made him less patient with Jimmy. We also see how Hector's "it is personal" falls on deaf ears. Eladio having him wheeled off and mocking him puts him in the position we see him in when Tuco eventually has to babysit him. Just a useless old man, whereas at the start catering to Fring would start a gang war now the influence of the Salamancas has run dry.Gus finally gets his victory, he goes to celebrate with his wine and instead o chalking this up as the revenge completed he realizes he's ruined his life and can never be satisfied. Which is what gets him killed. And then Jimmy who we saw as a good little angel, and Saul who we saw as a perverted but charismatic shady lawyer, are merged together in a way that makes complete sense. Great stuff
I also dont mind the idea of being Gus being gay. I actually like the whole "queer-coded" element, usually im of the opinion if it's a show where you can show gay guys just show gay guys I usually don't like allegory. I also don't like people who call things queerbaiting because they wont show a big hot cocking jizzing into an asshole but I think Gus Fring is cool because if you see him as straight he went to all this effort for a guy who he wasn't even getting head from which is badass and if you see him as gay his character journey for revenge actually gains a different layer to it. I feel Fring is a man who is seen as all business and no muscle and he resents that. I think his "a man provides" speech does have some truth to it. He wants to be in this masculine role, he wants to provide and he wants to be the boss, so with the classic working class homophobia of the cartel he's constantly belittled for his homosexuality because they see a fudgepacker only good for effeminate roles like management and taking it up the arse from Hector. So even if Max wasn't killed he'd have this drive to be on top, to shake off that perception and be the badass invincible stoic killer we see in BrBa. Which I think is kind of what we see topped off with his arc in the end of the prequel portion of BCS. He outsmarts and outmachos Lalo, who's a smart and masculine guy beloved by Hector and the cartel so now he's finally felt like he's proved himself in a big way and this paves the way for the more confident and cold Fring who gives the Salamancas the orders and fucks THEM up the ass
I was kind of meh on season six for the first half, I didn't dislike it but I felt it both chased a lot of the lows of the first half of Breaking Bad's final season - quickly rushing out storylines and action because they dont have as many episodes - while having an ironically really slow pace BCS is stereotyped for. Even Jimmy's scams didn't have the charm of the previous seasons'. However as soon as Howard makes his speech I feel like the whole season has clicked and come together great. Especially in ways that retroactively make more of the choices of the first half of the season make sense. The last two and a bit eps have been good both character building wise and dramatic action wise. A lot like the second half of Breaking Bad's last season. I was kind of unsure if Lalo letting Gus live would be entirely in-character, I went with it to get a cool moment, but rewatching the bell scene the guy goes into a burning building to steal a souvineer. He'd definitely get himself killed trying to film Gus in his superlab for Eladio, and I feel Gus was definitely at risk because Lalo is the only Salamanca Eladio likes enough to entertain. And Lalo knows presentation is all, I bet that car and money are worth barely half as much as what Gus brings in monthly but because he dressed it up in showmanship Eladio loved it
Even the bell, which I never really liked the fact we got an origin story for it because it's kind of a corny idea, now is retroactively a decision that makes sense. Lalo loses in the end but i could see him having an inkling that the events he's set in motion could lead to the end of Gus' life, and that plus him being crazy and admiring Gus' balls is why he laughs to death. Walt and Lalo are very much alike, with Gus being our protagonist instead of the antagonist we see with his eyes how he would've handled Walt if Lalo hadn't hardened him. Him misunderestimating Walt because he took on Lalo physically and won might've affected his judgment and it along with the bell and his lust for revenge, is what led to his doom. More so than letting Hector live to torture him, which when I first saw it really gives you more pity for Hector who's usually a pretty detestable cucharacha
Fuck cant edit any more, just wanted to say three more things
- on the topic of season 6a's choices making sense with 6b's payout, Kim suggesting how Saul should go explains why he goes full hog into this persona. It's a way of, maybe subconsciously, hanging onto Kim in a small way as part of the wider coping mechanism
- i still believe the recast of Jeff the creepy cab driver is happening and the idea of the recast being explained as Saul percieving this guy as looking like this more threatening actor i still believe will happen. however i think this character wont be a major part of the finale. otherwise they wouldn't need to recast the guy, think about it. if it was a big role they would've either finished filming those scenes earlier, the original guy would've been paid more and thus less willing to go with HBO or they would've delayed them to maintain continuity. This guy can't be more important than, say, Kaylee who is constantly recast because she's not a major part
- and did anyone else think kim's mother was played by rhea seehorn doing a southern accent? the resemblance is uncanny. props to the casting director
The reason that Jimmy and Kim go after Howard is explained in the show. Howard lied to them for years. Howard lied to Jimmy's face over and over about why he was not hired at HHM. He tells Jimmy that he is not good enough for HHM and that Howard did not want him. In reality Howard did want him at HHM and lied because Chuck was too cowardly to confront Jimmy about how he did not respect him as a lawyer. This is why in the first season Jimmy harasses Howard with the billboard and fake rescue. Because all Jimmy knows is that Howard hates him and denied him a job at HHM. He has no idea that Chuck was always the one until later.
Later Howard begins messing with Kim as well. Burying her in petty work and moving her office. Denying her a promotion despite getting Mesa Verde. Trying to steal Mesa Verde from her and give it to Chuck immediately rather than congratulate her. So she ends up hating Howard as well. But why was Howard messing with Kim? Because Chuck hated that Jimmy was dragging Kim down with him and turning her into a slimy lawyer. Or possibly Chuck hated that Jimmy was happy with a girlfriend unlike divorced miserable Chuck. Or maybe some of both. Also Chuck knows that Jimmy has likely told Kim all of the embarrassing information about Chuck from childhood to the present so he wants Kim away from him and HHM. And that Chuck is not allergic to electricity but mentally ill and unfit for law. So Chuck needs Kim out of HHM because she knows about his mental state and has seen him hospitalized once.
They both have every reason to dislike Howard. But Howard tries to hire Jimmy and apologizes to Jimmy and Kim. But by then Chuck has killed himself and they know that letting Howard off of the hook for anything will make them feel guilty about Chuck. Also working for Howard kills Jimmy's cartel business so he turns it down in the end and chooses a more violent and criminal life.
Bob recently corrected that. With odd symbolism, it occurred literally during the scene with Lalo, where Jimmy was trying to save Kim's life. Then Rhea Seehorn literally saved Bob's life in reality. They didn't go right back to shooting the Lalo scene.
Edit: to keep it on topic, does anyone actually think the writing this season was affected by the heart attack? I'd assume once it hit filming stage there's no way of changing course but considering the delays + covid, I'm curious if they managed to give Bob less taxing scenes.
It has shots that rival (and surpass) Vince Gilligan, the acting is top notch and has the same highs as this show does (if not more, occasionally), it's smart.... It's just real fucking good tv. Found it more satisfying that I've found this season of BCS honestly.
Edit: Forgot to mention, it's Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow at the top of their game. That only should be a draw.
Don't worry. The faggot Vince Gilligan worshipers that populate this thread will tell you how this is better than the Sopranos, Wire, Shield, Shakespeare, and the Bible. Combined. And that you are too stupid to appreciate the genius slow burn writing and need to watch Marvel Capeshit, Fast and Furious 25, or Harry Potter because those are in your lane or whatever reddit phrases they are using this week. 9.8 on IMDB hopefully.
This is typical hack writing from BB and BCS. Stringing the show on forever with filler. Meandering nonsense with fake deep meanings that the fans invent and then masturbate over. More montages. Last minute saves and horror movie level dumb characters. Like security guards who eat with their backs to the monitors rather than sit on the other side of the table. Are you kidding me? And this is one week after a security guard just HAPPENED to need a bathroom break when Lalo was breaking in to the laundromat? Are all cops, DEA agents, and security guards without brains in the Breaking Bad universe?
Bravo Vince. Bravo fags who like this style of writing.
I mean I appreciate them digging Carol Burnett out of mothballs but this episode blew chunks and I have no idea why this show is continuing after last week.
After 3 of probably tvs best episodes in a while we get this? Um.. wow. Unless their goal is to make us think the ending will suck just to make it not suck then damn. This actually kinda sucked.
Um? Are we watching the same show guys? The Jeff mystery that's been there since season 4 is completely wrapped up. With this every single plotline is completely wrapped up now. Lalo is dead, Kim is gone, HHM is gone, Gene has taken care of the problem and doesn't have to disappear again.
Nothing happened? You guys are faggots. We have 3 more episodes with literally no more plot left.
