Better Call Saul

[Slav Power]

Some of them were, though. Look up Oskar Dirlewanger. He may not be representative of the entire class, but they didn't do anything about him either. And I'll agree, Jack was more of a prison gang leader, not some political Nazi, but he was definitely introduced as a Nazi, compared to Walt in his conduct, and one of the last people willing to do business with Walt before Lydia became his connection, and of the two, Jack was the better person.

Walt had degenerated to that level at that point in the series.

There is no such thing as a Nazi post-1945. A Nazi is specifically a member of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, a political party that existed from 1920 to 1945. Any "Nazis" you may find nowadays are Neo-Nazis, as they only loosely adapt the ideas of the NSDAP.

As for Dirlewanger, the entire NSDAP, Wehrmacht and Schutzstaffel relation mess has been diluted into "Nazi bad" whereas the greatest atrocities were committed by the SS, that was completely separate from Wehrmacht that was more into actually fighting a war than exterminating the Untermensch, and both were full of NSDAP members.

So when I say "Actual members of the NSDAP weren't psychotic murderers" I mean that the vast majority of NSDAP members weren't down for the Holocaust, and probably didn't know about it because it was a strict SS operation. A lot of NSDAP members were just regular Germans.

However, when you take meth head KKK members and give them Mein Kampf, they'll associate their general hatred to an ideology that they don't actually believe in, and that's Neo-Nazism. All of it. And so is Jack Welker and his gang. They might as well be KKK members or a regular biker gang, same shit, different wrapper. It's that Neo-Nazi gangs are considered to be generally ruthless and violent, more so than your average Klansmen or bikers, so that was the choice for Breaking Bad.

If we're gonna draw some historic comparisons, Neo-Nazi gangs like the ones portrayed in Breaking Bad are more akin to what the Soviets were during WW2. When they "liberated" Poland, there were archived statements of Poles saying that compared to the Soviets, the Nazis were actually civilized and upstanding folk. Rapes, murders, plunders, that was the Soviet liberation of Europe and that's more in line with modern Neo-Nazi gangs. A bunch of violent double digit IQ thugs that just want to fuck everything up.

All the historical politisperging and semantics aside, the only reason why there was a Neo-Nazi gang in Breaking Bad was because the writers wanted some utterly despicable group, and a ruthless violent gang full of psychopaths was what they settled with. And since they had to sensibly wrap it up, they've settled on a Neo-Nazi prison gang. Just think about how many times Jack's gang ever brought up any Neo-Nazi ideology elements throughout Season 5. It was all background setting really, they were just a bunch of violent thugs and that was the entire point.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Chekhov's guns all get fired, sometimes literally years later

When I first watched BCS, I assumed Tuco showing up at the end of the pilot was just to get the old fans talking about it, explaining to the newbies what's the significance of some Mexican dude pulling Jimmy into his house. But the in season five, it comes full circle when Lalo comes in and drags Jimmy into his problems. It ends up being a great setup when you realize that the pilot really was the moment when Jimmy was set on the path to become Saul permanently.

On BB: I never forgave Vince Gilligan for gaslighting the hell out of the show's fans. First, he gaslighted fans for continuing to cheer for Walt in later seasons. He said he couldn't understand how anyone could root for Walt, all while continuing to write the character in such a way that made it easy to do. They never stopped portraying Walt as something of an antihero. BB's writers were good—they knew exactly what they were doing. They could have easily done more to completely smash any lingering sympathy for the man and have viewers united in rooting for his downfall.

An issue with some writers, especially in Hollywood where they're in a bubble, is they assume they wrote one thing and can't understand why the audience is reading it a different way. Infamous lolcow Andrew Dobson would make blog posts and comics about how everyone is being mean to him, only for readers to point out actually he was the idiot in that situation. In BB, Walt was doing some bad shit, but we've latched onto him emotionally as a character, and that allows the audience to overlook things, or still enjoy his story without condoning his behavior. Same with Tony Soprano. But Vince and David couldn't get that and so believe the audience is wrong.

Ernesto Fring was one of the most underrated characters in BCS. I would unironically like to see a sequel where he, having failed as a lawyer, picks up the pieces of his dead father's drug empire.

He can't be a Fring, Gus was gay. I know he mentioned a wife and kids but I'm pretty sure that was retconned pretty quickly.

And yeah, I wish Jimmy and Kim had brought him into their firm to try and help him, or she got him a job with that other law firm she joined. Dude deserved to have a better ending than just disappear once Chuck was done with him.

 

[AnOminous]

There is no such thing as a Nazi post-1945.

So what? Who cares? Almost anyone looking at Jack would view him as "Jack the Nazi" and still view him as better than Walt. Quit sperging, fag. Nobody cares you dumb homo.

 

[UnKillFill]

@Arthur Morgan Gay people can have children too. Not that it matters. I don't seriously think Ernesto is Gus's son, it's just funny because the two actors look similar to me.

 

[BirdUp]

I mean that the vast majority of NSDAP members weren't down for the Holocaust

wasnt the whole crux of national socialism that jews were responsible for everything wrong with the world and less than human so they had their belongings stolen and were forced into ghettos
the holocaust was a secret operation but most germans had been persuaded to hate jews

 

[Slav Power]

wasnt the whole crux of national socialism that jews were responsible for everything wrong with the world and less than human so they had their belongings stolen and were forced into ghettos
the holocaust was a secret operation but most germans had been persuaded to hate jews

Yeah, but then again note how Hitler also despised all Slavs and treated them the same way as Jews, yet he didn't feel the same strong hatred towards black people who weren't subject to that level of persecution. Meanwhile Neo-Nazi gangs want to hang niggers from trees and don't really have any strong opinions about Slavs. Because they're a bastardization of National Socialism and not it's true continuation, which is why the Neo- distinction is pretty important. It's all KKK racists that decided to latch onto the legacy of Nazism. Not to mention that actual Nazism also had more ambitious ideas, such as assuring every worker has a car and a steady income, while Neo-Nazi gangs just want to kill niggers and kikes and that's the height of their ambition.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

It's always better to set more achievable goals.

 

[TheHarbinger]

All the historical politisperging and semantics aside, the only reason why there was a Neo-Nazi gang in Breaking Bad was because the writers wanted some utterly despicable group, and a ruthless violent gang full of psychopaths was what they settled with.

They needed an antagonistic group that could make the audience root for Walt again. And knowing the average fan that they were dealing with they chose a Neo-Nazi biker gang with meth and tattoos and trailer park living. Now Walt was the good guy again. On his way to freeing Jesse and giving his family millions in cash and completing his goal of providing for his family.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I forgot this existed. Some good April Foolin

 

[Seventh Star]

I forgot this existed. Some good April Foolin

I'm so sick of this style of commentary that I can't even take an April Fools joke in jest.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I'm so sick of this style of commentary that I can't even take an April Fools joke in jest.

I'd probably have found it annoying if it went over 10 minutes, as these types of videos often do.

Still, the reminder of the Saul cartoon was enough to get me to smirk.

 

[AnOminous]

Meanwhile Neo-Nazi gangs want to hang niggers from trees and don't really have any strong opinions about Slavs. Because they're a bastardization of National Socialism and not it's true continuation, which is why the Neo- distinction is pretty important.

It's a very ideological attraction to Slavs, who feel a (completely correct) sense of racial inferiority because actual Nazis view them as vermin. So these vermin have to exaggerate their hatred for other lower races, even though they are in a racial category Hitler arguably hated even more than Jews.

Even Negroes and Arabs were in a higher racial category than Slavs, who Hitler treated, depending on his mood at the time, as being very little better than Jews, or as even worse than Jews. This is the racial insecurity Slavs who pretend to be Nazis have. They just can't cope with the fact Hitler would have sent them straight into a gas chamber.

 

[Konstantin Romanov]

Jimmy is a bad person, Howard is a good person, Jimmy torments Howard nonstop because Jimmy is petty, but the show never really calls Jimmy out on this.

Did we watch the same show? The whole Howard subplot is, to my interpretation, about the breakdown of the relationship between Kim and Jimmy. Whose idea is it to ruin Howard's life? Kim. How did Jimmy treat Howard prior to that? He was rude to him, he retaliated against him when he felt insulted, but he never sought him out to instigate anything. Jimmy immediately objects but ultimately goes along with it because he views Kim as his moral center not realizing that she's having a breakdown because she can't understand how he "gets away with" doing "bad" things. Kim looks at Jimmy doing everything wrong and somehow coming out of it clean, and thinks that means anything goes, and because they both think the other has a handle on the situation, they go out of control.

I will agree Lalo killing him sort of neuters the conclusion of this storyline, but it would never have been satisfying to see Jimmy "called out" for fucking with Howard. You're not a media literate genius for realizing that what Jimmy was doing was wrong, that feeling of discomfort the Howard plot creates when you're watching it was deliberate.

 

[Seventh Star]

Did we watch the same show? The whole Howard subplot is, to my interpretation, about the breakdown of the relationship between Kim and Jimmy. Whose idea is it to ruin Howard's life? Kim. How did Jimmy treat Howard prior to that? He was rude to him, he retaliated against him when he felt insulted, but he never sought him out to instigate anything.

These two were so off character it's disgusting too. The change in Jimmy's behaviour is pretty abrupt. Imo what they should've done instead is have Jimmy and Kim pull off a scam or two together and it ends up with Howard being indirectly hurt while the company is doing badly, which leads to his suicide. Maybe then Kim can fuck off forever once she realizes how wrong it is, etc.

I also don't like the change in tone for the series and how it started as a slow, neat drama, and then became action bullshit.

 

[#lurker]

I haven't watched a single show since this show finished. As far as I'm concerned it was the finale season of television itself.

 

[Chilson]

These two were so off character it's disgusting too. The change in Jimmy's behaviour is pretty abrupt. Imo what they should've done instead is have Jimmy and Kim pull off a scam or two together and it ends up with Howard being indirectly hurt while the company is doing badly, which leads to his suicide. Maybe then Kim can fuck off forever once she realizes how wrong it is, etc.

I also don't like the change in tone for the series and how it started as a slow, neat drama, and then became action bullshit.

The real problem is that the show was too obsessed with being a Mike + Gus prequel than being about Saul becoming the man he was in BB.

Don't get me wrong, I like Mike and Gus's story but the show is called "Better call SAUL". They needed to cut their story down to at least half of the screen time it took with Nacho being a greater focus rather than Lalo, and the cut screentime being used to refocus on Kim's moral slide with Jimmy. Then you have Howard's death, preferably a suicide not a murder, be the major finale awakening moment for Kim and major Push for Jimmy to fully embrace Saul. Then have the rap up episode where Jimmy gets his comeuppance for all the shit he did in BB.

Lalo was a great character with a great actor who was unfortunately NOT the right villain for this show. He would have been great in BB, but he massively derails the narrative in BCS because his connection to Saul, much like most of Mike + Gus's story, is very minimal.

 

[Anti Snigger]

I imagine the timeline where Lalo was somehow the BB S5 antagonist instead, (I know that would require a lot but just bear with me), and I weep

 

[TheHarbinger]

I will agree Lalo killing him sort of neuters the conclusion of this storyline.

It makes the entire storyline meaningless. As Howard's death has literally nothing directly to do with them messing with him. He could have been stopping by to drop off a gift. Or give them a recommendation for new clients that he had to turn down due to conflict of interest. Or to invite Jimmy to a party or corporate event or just say 'hello'. He simply gets killed for being there when Lalo is.

It's not like where Walt calls the Nazis to save him from Hank and realizes too late that their method of saving him is to kill Hank. Though Walt not realizing that the Nazi gang solved all of their problems through murder was out of character. Walt would rather see the Nazis 'deal with' Hank rather than go to jail or lose his barrels of money. Jimmy doesn't even call Howard or Lalo. They just show up at the perfect time to make a plot twist moment for the audience.

The writers were clearly rushing the last season or two of Better Call Saul. They wanted to show how playing pranks on Howard would escalate and lead to his death. And how Jimmy descended into Saul. But there really was no gradual change into Saul. They just skipped the character development and jumped forward in time to where Saul is living on his own and Kim is gone. If you look at BCS as a whole they just skipped over the transformation of Jimmy into Saul and focused too much on Gus and Mike or Gene Takavic.

 

[Chilson]

I imagine the timeline where Lalo was somehow the BB S5 antagonist instead, (I know that would require a lot but just bear with me), and I weep

Honestly, not that much work would have been required and I think it would have been FAR better than what we got.

Instead of hamfisting in the nazi gang that through inexplicable coincidences Walt manages to get in contact with (I am tired of people saying the Nazi gang was not terribly written, it was), you have Lalo make contact with Walt as he is trying to figure out who killed his boss/family and Walt promises them Mikes head in exchange for killing all prisoners who are about to blow the whistle on him.

Everything more or less plays out the same, its just Lalo and his Cartel in charge rather than the Nazi gang. A far better antagonist more closely connected to the rest of the story and has actual skin in the game along with a long implied background history connecting him to all the events that have transpired for the last 5 seasons.

The only hiccup could be Gus thinking he wiped out the Salamanca's, but I feel its easy enough to explain how he faked his death and was using that to hide his investigation into who was trying to kill him for all those years. Now that everyone is dead, he comes out of hiding and starts to hunt down all those connected to Gus Fring. Its not that out of left field and very nearly happened in BCS before they just let Gus know he is actually alive.

 

[Anti Snigger]

It makes the entire storyline meaningless. As Howard's death has literally nothing directly to do with them messing with him. He could have been stopping by to drop off a gift. Or give them a recommendation for new clients that he had to turn down due to conflict of interest. Or to invite Jimmy to a party or corporate event or just say 'hello'. He simply gets killed for being there when Lalo is.

It's not like where Walt calls the Nazis to save him from Hank and realizes too late that their method of saving him is to kill Hank. Though Walt not realizing that the Nazi gang solved all of their problems through murder was out of character. Walt would rather see the Nazis 'deal with' Hank rather than go to jail or lose his barrels of money. Jimmy doesn't even call Howard or Lalo. They just show up at the perfect time to make a plot twist moment for the audience.

The writers were clearly rushing the last season or two of Better Call Saul. They wanted to show how playing pranks on Howard would escalate and lead to his death. And how Jimmy descended into Saul. But there really was no gradual change into Saul. They just skipped the character development and jumped forward in time to where Saul is living on his own and Kim is gone. If you look at BCS as a whole they just skipped over the transformation of Jimmy into Saul and focused too much on Gus and Mike or Gene Takavic.

Lalo killing howard isn't necessarily meant to contribute to howard's story, it's there to make lalo feel far more dangerous.