Better Call Saul

I unironically feel like that writing in Breaking Bad had a sharp decline after S4.
It's impossible to not see how Doylist the plot and character writing is in either show. Everything happens by plot contrivances, lucky breaks, and character "development", and way too fast. For the Sopranos it was just one or two episodes that made it way too apparent, with these two shows its constant and only gets worse the closer you get to the end of each.
Skylar is a cheating bitch and the worst character so far in my watchthrough of Breaking Bad, change my mind. Walt did nothing wrong.
Most people who hate Walt hate him for silly reasons, the worst of which is poisoning a kid with something that didn't even kill him.
 
Howard was done so dirty in the show and I don't understand why.

Skylar is a cheating bitch and the worst character so far in my watchthrough of Breaking Bad, change my mind. Walt did nothing wrong.

She was, but so was Walter. I'm rewatching it now and they never really establish that Walt was ever a good guy beyond characters telling you that he was a great guy. I find myself getting as annoyed with Walt as I was with Skylar in the original watch. He's pretty much an arrogant, stubborn asshole to everyone from the gitgo.

I liked Better Call Saul but it kind of annoyed me in the same way that Shameless did. Characters have everything given to them and you just know they're going to squander it and it happens over and over and over.
 
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Skyler was generally down for anything up until she had to potentially face accountability for her actions, like signing off on cooked books, fucking Ted Beneke, laundering money, etc. Then she would do a bunch of stupid shit to overcorrect her past actions that never worked out for her. Despite pretending to be the rational one, she made some of the dumbest mistakes on the show.

Hank and Marie were much better people, even with Marie’s kleptomania.
 
Howard was done so dirty in the show and I don't understand why.
Howard was definitely one of my favorite characters. There's this perfectly executed moment in the disbarment hearing where he talks to Chuck in private and he tries to frame it as a warning about antagonizing Jimmy and potentially inviting retaliation, but it's clear he's actually got some moral reservations. Chuck dismisses him, walks out of the room and turns out the light, so Howard is just left standing in an empty sunlit meeting room, but he's still in his salesman power-pose.

That change in context is such a great piece of minimalist character work, because in one moment it goes from a man presenting a comfortable facade in an appropriate social situation to this obvious expression of insecurity. Howard is alone and unobserved, and all he has is the facade. On the one hand it's telling the viewer that Howard won't step in to oppose Chuck, but it's also telling you why, because he's not confident enough in himself to actually act on his own moral beliefs. He doesn't respect his own opinion, and it gives key context to the way Howard has up until then been presented as this weird, stiff, insincere creep. All presented in 2 seconds from a closed door and a flicked switch.

This kind of narrative economy isn't appropriate or even possible for a lot of story beats, but when it can be done I always appreciate it.
Edit: Actually I suppose I'm misremembering the light being turned off, it would already have been off because of Chuck's EM phobia.
 
Howard was definitely one of my favorite characters. There's this perfectly executed moment in the disbarment hearing where he talks to Chuck in private and he tries to frame it as a warning about antagonizing Jimmy and potentially inviting retaliation, but it's clear he's actually got some moral reservations.
It's also because he remembers when Chuck was not mentally ill. And is trying to protect Chuck from having to get involved in another public outing in a courtroom and possibly serious embarrassing himself and the firm. He knows that Chuck's reputation is on the line and doesn't really want him to publicly practice law anymore. Chuck is a father figure for him and he's seeing that Chuck is pretty much done mentally and emotionally and is close to a full blown public breakdown that will crush everything that they worked for their entire lives.

He spends the millions buying Chuck out to save his reputation and save the firm. Because he knows that even without Jimmy being there to harass and antagonize Chuck that his electricity madness will lead to something terrible happening. Jimmy actually visits Chuck before his suicide to try to make amends but Howard never does because he is happy to be finally rid of the stubborn mentally ill version of Chuck.
 
Truly the one liner that should have been included in BCS

Konstantin Romanov said:
Howard was definitely one of my favorite characters. There's this perfectly executed moment in the disbarment hearing where he talks to Chuck in private and he tries to frame it as a warning about antagonizing Jimmy and potentially inviting retaliation, but it's clear he's actually got some moral reservations.
I wouldn't go so far as to say he has moral reservations. Howard sat there going along with chuck the whole time he was trying to fuck over jimmy behind his back while trying to play the nice brother, even playing along when chuck made a show of not being happy that jimmy wasn't going to be hired at the firm. Howard let him pull that shit knowing full well what he was doing and both went along with it and didn't warn jimmy about what kind of person chuck was and what he was doing. Someone willing to be a part of that has some pretty questionable morals themselves. Not to mention i'm not sure i'd want chuck around clients after that. If he'll manipulate his own brother and lie to his face like that, and involve other members of the firm in it, what is he willing to do to clients and what ethically questionable things is he willing to do to win cases?

As much as chuck resented jimmy for the kind of person he is they were cut from the same cloth, they just went about things a bit differently. Jimmy would con you, but chuck would fuck you over and try to manipulate you into fucking yourself over so long as he could justify it as being technically within the confines of the law. Just look at what he pulled to get that confession on tape. He knew exactly what jimmy would do if he pushed the right buttons and deliberately pushed him into doing it then tried to blackmail him. All after having used him for quite some time to support him while he was acting mental. Chuck is well into the lawful evil d&d category. That isn't even getting into his arrogance toward everyone. Like while it was true that jimmy did doctor those documents to fuck with him, he neither knew that for certain nor did he half proof of it when the error was initially noticed. It was a simple error that literally anyone could make and he immediately latched on to the idea that it had to be jimmy, despite how much crazy shit would have to be involved for that to be the case and never once even remotely entertained the possibility, no matter how small, that he had simply made a simple error. Thats a serious issue in itself that howard should not have ignored. Sure, chuck was right about what had happened but there was no reason to actually think that at the time and not being at least willing to consider the possibility of a genuine error, given his position in the firm should have been a huge red flag for his competency and between the mental issues and that happening, should have been cause to get him off actively working on documents and with clients regardless of what the truth of the matter. As sooner or later he would make a real mistake and likely fail to acknowledge that as well, which could lead to serious problems with cases, clients and the firm in general. Yet howard did nothing and continued to do nothing until the shit with the malpractice insurance went down and costs went up for every lawyer at the firm. It made it look like money was his primary concern not the competency of senior staff or the ethical behavior of said staff. To say nothing of the manipulative shit he pulled with kim for questioning him about it

I'm really not surprised jimmy and kim started hating him. Especially when he went so far as to be 'nice' by putting in a good word with another firm to get him in there when he fucked him around with the guys brother. Its passive aggressive as fuck. and he had the audacity to be flabbergasted and ask why they hated him so much and were fucking with him before lalo showed up? Dude, stop and think about what you've been doing to these people for the last few years, especially the recent stuff
 
Like while it was true that jimmy did doctor those documents to fuck with him, he neither knew that for certain nor did he half proof of it when the error was initially noticed. It was a simple error that literally anyone could make and he immediately latched on to the idea that it had to be jimmy, despite how much crazy shit would have to be involved for that to be the case and never once even remotely entertained the possibility, no matter how small, that he had simply made a simple error. Thats a serious issue in itself that howard should not have ignored.
The other problem was Chuck's initial reaction to the error, which was to accuse the clients of being wrong rather than admit that he had made a mistake. Even before he checked the documents, he couldn't accept he had fucked up. Hell, he damaged himself mentally for years until Jimmy forced him to confront the fact that the electricity allergy was all in his head because he couldn't accept that there was something wrong with his brain, it had to be physical because otherwise he was wrong. And when he finally accepted it, he was able to make great strides.
 
I'm really not surprised jimmy and kim started hating him. Especially when he went so far as to be 'nice' by putting in a good word with another firm to get him in there when he fucked him around with the guys brother. Its passive aggressive as fuck. and he had the audacity to be flabbergasted and ask why they hated him so much and were fucking with him before lalo showed up? Dude, stop and think about what you've been doing to these people for the last few years, especially the recent stuff
The thing about Howard, though, is that he's not related to Jimmy, so it's all just about business. His primary job is to keep HHM profitable, and it should be. Otherwise they can't pay their employees and they go out of business. Jimmy is not a shitty lawyer (in terms of raw talent and inate intelligence), but he is not reliable, and in that sense he would not be a true asset to the company. And yes, that's saying he's more of a liability to HHM than Chuck, who has gone nuts. But, if Chuck comes back from that, he'll will return to form as a great lawyer who serves the firm well. In contrast, Jimmy will always be working an angle.

But of course Jimmy and Kim hate Howard. Jimmy hates him because Howard is not a genuine person and is not extending a helping hand to Jimmy... but why would he? Jimmy is a wannabe. He definitely doesn't need to be working at a high-powered firm just because his brother does. He has to earn it, and Jimmy honestly doesn't want to pay his dues. Kim hates Howard because she loves Jimmy and doesn't want to see him mistreated.

And the audience? We dislike Howard because he's being, as you said, disingenuous and passive aggressive to our main character, someone we know well enough to understand and love. He's an underdog with aspirations we understand and admire. And he's not being treated fairly, being seen for his talents.

But this is an issue of perspective, not of good and evil. Howard is a smarmy jerk, but he's paid to be a smarmy jerk. It would be grossly irresponsible of him to put the brother of one of his employees on the payroll and assign him crucial responsibilities just because of nepotism. (Though, it must be said, trying to steal the Sandpiper lawsuit from him was scummy. But business is often scummy, and you can equally blame Chuck for that, and the betrayal is a lot worse coming from Chuck.)

This is a microcosm of what makes Vince Gilligan's writer's room so impressive. They write a show chock full of characters, and all of their perspectives make sense. In a show that well written, an occasional character who is truly evil (like Jack Welker and his people, who seem to be literal psychopaths, or Tuco, who is actually insane) will have far greater impact on the audience than a boring, clichéd evil supervillain. Because people like that exist in the real world, but they're rare. Almost everyone else is a largely rational actor.

This honestly reminds me a lot of the audience's hatred towards Skylar in Breaking Bad. The audience doesn't like her because she's standing opposed to Walter. But what Walter is doing is very illegal and extremely dangerous, so why wouldn't she be upset? We love Walter because we know him, understand his motivations, and we primarily follow him. That doesn't make Skylar wrong for feeling the way she feels. (Fucking Ted was really awful, though.)

But yeah, Howard was one of my favorite characters. Not a good guy, but not a bad guy, and he did not deserve what happened to him. The audience is misdirected, focusing on Kim, Nacho, and Chuck (because they're "new" characters who don't exist in BB for some reason), and we forget to consider Howard until it's too late (because it would be natural for him not to exist in BB). Masterful writing.
 
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Kim hates Howard because she loves Jimmy and doesn't want to see him mistreated.
And he mistreated her. He sent her to the cornfield twice, once because a shitty client decided to go with a different lawyer instead of taking a deal she'd worked hard to get, and the other because Jimmy made problems at Davis & Main, embarrassing them both, and despite it being Howard who helped Jimmy get the job, he took it out on Kim. And when she brought in a big client, instead of seeing she still has potential, he assigned them to someone else and put her back on document review. Sure, later on, he forgave her debt to the firm for her law degree, but at that point he'd basically been doing all he could to drive Kim out or screw over her career.

Howard was an antagonist for a reason, not just because he and Jimmy had conflict. He could be vindictive when he wanted to be.
 
As much as chuck resented jimmy for the kind of person he is they were cut from the same cloth, they just went about things a bit differently. Jimmy would con you, but chuck would fuck you over and try to manipulate you into fucking yourself over so long as he could justify it as being technically within the confines of the law.
This is why I both hated and sympathized with both of them. Because when you get right down to it, the reason they hated each other was they both saw themselves in the other brother. They both went below the belt in incredibly vile ways. That simple "error" completely destroyed Chuck's mind, and that's what Jimmy WANTED to do. That horrible speech Chuck delivered to Jimmy, absolutely trashing every aspect of him, similarly wrecked him completely and ended any attempt he was making to go straight and narrow.
 
This is why I both hated and sympathized with both of them. Because when you get right down to it, the reason they hated each other was they both saw themselves in the other brother. They both went below the belt in incredibly vile ways. That simple "error" completely destroyed Chuck's mind, and that's what Jimmy WANTED to do. That horrible speech Chuck delivered to Jimmy, absolutely trashing every aspect of him, similarly wrecked him completely and ended any attempt he was making to go straight and narrow.
That's why I loved the last flashback of them even if Saul Gone was disappointing. We got a glimpse of what their relationship wasn't. Even before the show started, by the time Chuck tried to offer his brother any help or support it was too late. That moment being Jimmy's biggest regret was great.
 
It still makes me sick what happened to Howard ... But in a good, effective way. Something big needed to happen to make Kim break up with Jimmy, and I'd say that Howard's untimely demise was a good reason to. It would have been so lame if they did this big reveal that Kim and Jimmy were still together this entire time, with Kim being a "mastermind" or something ... The breakup/divorce needed to happen, and it needed to have a plausible and big reason for it to happen.

Tale as old as time: "Actions have consequences." Jimmy and Kim were having so much fun, and then Kim saw someone innocent get his brains blown out right in front of her face because of her actions.

I rewatched all of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul right before the final season of BCS aired a few years ago (can't believe that was already 2 years ago; time flies!). Upon my rewatch of BCS specifically, I totally sympathized with Howard and he became a favorite character of mine. The dude did have a law firm to run and maintain; he had his own career and reputation to maintain ... He was just the poor schmuck who got caught in the middle of the most fucked up sibling rivalry in history. It's just not fair what happened to him.

Howard was a good egg. The goodest egg of the entire Breaking Bad saga, if you ask me.

Chuck was right about Jimmy.
He was ... But that doesn't erase how shitty Chuck could be.

This is why I both hated and sympathized with both of them. Because when you get right down to it, the reason they hated each other was they both saw themselves in the other brother. They both went below the belt in incredibly vile ways. That simple "error" completely destroyed Chuck's mind, and that's what Jimmy WANTED to do. That horrible speech Chuck delivered to Jimmy, absolutely trashing every aspect of him, similarly wrecked him completely and ended any attempt he was making to go straight and narrow.
100% agreed.
 
Chuck wasn’t right about Jimmy, Chuck was effectively just Walter in that he was controlling and ultimately would sabotage others if he ever lost control or started to look inferior. Both Howard and Jimmy suffer from Chuck going out of his way to ruin their lives the moment they break out of his shadow.

Chuck’s entire disease is literally just his insecurities piling up. The first time he’s cured is when he wants to prove Jimmy wrong about Sandpiper, but actually enjoys working again that he doesn’t remember until Jimmy calls out to him.
You can see this start when Mail Room Jimmy charms Chuck’s wife. Chuck immediately feels the need make his wife think he’s as funny as Jimmy.
It’s a way to excuse his superiority complex.

Howard is basically a replacement Jimmy for Chuck, but someone who Chuck ultimately thought could never hurt him like Jimmy could. He doesn’t view Howard as a father, he’s the cool older brother Howard always wanted.

Howard is also the only character with a functioning moral compass and it eats at him when he bends his morals for Chuck. I do like him getting killed, he was the last person in Jimmy’s life who’d remind him to be a better person.
 
Howard is also the only character with a functioning moral compass and it eats at him when he bends his morals for Chuck. I do like him getting killed, he was the last person in Jimmy’s life who’d remind him to be a better person.
Unfortunately the last season went to shit the instant after Howard's shocking death. It would have been better if Mike had decided he wasn't going to sweep this one up and the consequences came immediately and hard for both Jimmy and Kim, with a dark, total downer ending an episode or two later.

That and the Gene Takovic arc which had been being teased for literally years turned out to be a wet fart we could have done without. It's almost like the Wayfarer 515 crash in BB, which similarly was teased and then turned out to be this utterly ridiculous, contrived scenario, although De Lancie's heartbreaking performance and Walt's hilariously awful "motivational speech" about the crash saved that to some extent.
 
Chuck wasn’t right about Jimmy, Chuck was effectively just Walter in that he was controlling and ultimately would sabotage others if he ever lost control or started to look inferior. Both Howard and Jimmy suffer from Chuck going out of his way to ruin their lives the moment they break out of his shadow.

Chuck’s entire disease is literally just his insecurities piling up. The first time he’s cured is when he wants to prove Jimmy wrong about Sandpiper, but actually enjoys working again that he doesn’t remember until Jimmy calls out to him.
You can see this start when Mail Room Jimmy charms Chuck’s wife. Chuck immediately feels the need make his wife think he’s as funny as Jimmy.
It’s a way to excuse his superiority complex.

Howard is basically a replacement Jimmy for Chuck, but someone who Chuck ultimately thought could never hurt him like Jimmy could. He doesn’t view Howard as a father, he’s the cool older brother Howard always wanted.

Howard is also the only character with a functioning moral compass and it eats at him when he bends his morals for Chuck. I do like him getting killed, he was the last person in Jimmy’s life who’d remind him to be a better person.
Chuck saw Jimmy as a piece of shit who could never be a good person or live normally (thus it was unfair he was charismatic and likeable and Chuck wasn't) and he made sure Jimmy never got that option. The law wasnt sacred to Chuck because he had high opinions about justice, it was sacred because being a good lawyer was the one thing he had that his little brother didn't and he wanted to keep it that way.
 
Chuck saw Jimmy as a piece of shit who could never be a good person or live normally (thus it was unfair he was charismatic and likeable and Chuck wasn't) and he made sure Jimmy never got that option. The law wasnt sacred to Chuck because he had high opinions about justice, it was sacred because being a good lawyer was the one thing he had that his little brother didn't and he wanted to keep it that way.
Partly, but remember in the beginning when Chuck was saying maybe Jimmy should start practicing under a different name? It's also the fact that, as Chuck's brother, anything Jimmy does can affect him. They share the McGill name and that could lead to an association that could hurt Chuck.

Except, as we see in the first season, once Jimmy finds his niche in elder law, he has no problem sticking to the straight and narrow. He was perfectly content to just talk to old people for a few hours, using his natural charm to be their friend and someone they could count on, despite having an easy opportunity to scam them as pointed out by his buddy in Chicago.

Had Chuck just gotten over himself and helped guide Jimmy through Sandpiper without trying to steal it from him, they probably would have fixed their issues and been real brothers. But, as you pointed out, he couldn't let the old resentments go.
 
maybe Jimmy should start practicing under a different name?
And it turned out to be the strongest piece of advice he ever gave Jimmy given how much of a hit "Saul Goodman" is, from a personal branding perspective, both in and out of universe

But yeah it's a disservice to both Chuck and Jimmy's characters to say the relationship was nothing but hatred and dislike after all. There's a lot of complex feelings there and they did care for one another at different points but not enough. Both brothers let the bad side win out. It's why I at least really liked the Chuck flashback scene in the last episode.
 
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