Bitcoin Unsustainable? - An opinion, looking for other opinions

[Not Really Here]

Yeah who cares if global oil trade collapses? There's no money in that.

Yes, because people can't just use another currency.

It's a completely useless statement.
My nephew desires his monopoly money to be worth a lot. Therefore dollar, monopoly money, and bitcoin is all the same!

Good job ignoring that I wrote "groups of people" not "one tard"

 

[byuu]

Good job ignoring that I wrote "groups of people" not "one tard"

My nephew and his friends then.
OMG SO DIFFERENT

I'm going to convert all my money in Zimbabwe dollar. It's all just fiat currency anyway - that means they're all completely equal!

 

[Not Really Here]

My nephew and his friends then.
OMG SO DIFFERENT

I'm going to convert all my money in Zimbabwe dollar. It's all just fiat currency anyway - that means they're all completely equal!

Zimbabwe doesn't have a dollar, it became shit and the next day people started using Euros and US dollars.
Good job finding an example that perfectly proves my point.

 

[byuu]

Zimbabwe doesn't have a dollar, it became shit and the next day people started using Euros and US dollars.

Who gives a shit.

 

[CryoRevival #SJ-112]

How hard its to mine monero?

Its super easy. Just install monero cart if you're using Windows. They have a pretty cozy chatroom too.
Its worth saying that mining it is a money loser, you are essentially donating electricity to the community.
If you want to accrue it by mining, mine ethereum on a pool that supports paying its miners in monero.

 

[The Ugly One]

You need to have dollars because if you don't have as many dollars as the IRS says you owe the federal government, you go to jail. Doesn't matter what you believe about central banking, gold, free markets, socialism, or whatever. Do you like being not in jail? You'll keep using dollars.

 

[secretchan]

Bitcoin is not unsustainable, it has grown nonstop to become the largest and most decentralized network on the entire planet in about 13 years with absolutely 0 downtime. It wont be replaced by a competitor, because no other project can do what bitcoin did.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

At any time, the feds or the Russians and Chinese can pull the plug on bitcoin.

They oughtright seized bitcoins during their war against the Silk Road drug website. Also, Russia and China supply the cheap fuel to keep bitcoin going; what happens when they pull the plug? All your savings go down the drain.

Plus, the whole thing operates as a ponzi scheme. The older holders of bitcoin make money by waiting until the currency gains value before selling it to the newer wave of suckers, and those suckers will then make money by waiting until bitcoin gets a higher value before selling it or exchanging it for fiat money.

Think. Why would people sell bitcoin for fiat money that's going to be worthless, if bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future? Wouldn't they want to hoard it the way feudal lords hoarded gold underneath their beds in the old days?

All this nonsense, and people could have just bartered gold, jewelry, and precious stones. At the end of the day, bitcoin was good for nothing outside of speculation and drug money.

 

[Tuturesque]

Going back to OP, I don't believe mining is unsustainable, at least in the face of innovation. What is interesting about mining to me is that it can generate a lot of heat without having to combust anything. Just heat radiating from off electronic components. To me, that's going to be the next phase in the bitcoin mining scene, generating heat from bitcoin mining, then converting that heat into something useful. There's this one company in Norway, for example, that uses the heat from bitcoin mining to dry wood and seaweed. There's also some heater companies that use bitcoin mining as a way to save people money heating up their homes:

Homepage

The world's first Crypto-Currency Heater It's means of production instead of commercial goods This heater is the result of 5 years of development by our team. Its patented technology has been designed to dissipate a soft and comfortable heat, and is fully integrated with the finest materials...

bitcoinminingheater.com

Heatbit - electric heater that earns you money

Heatbit - electric heater that earns you money Hashpower: 14 TH/s Power consumption: 1.3 kW (110-120v/220-240v) Weight: 31 lbs / 14 kg

heatbit.com

This is all rather bleeding edge, so the technology is still maybe 5 years out from being anything useful or practical. That said, the potential remains, Similar to how a butcher makes sure to use every last cut from an animal as possible, I see people squeezing every last drop of utility out of bitcoin mining. I picture the first adopters will be HVAC companies, setting up commercial systems for large companies, where the size of the mining farm would make sense, relative to the cost to build it, and the money saved from the bitcoin mined.

 

[The Ugly One]

Bitcoin is not unsustainable, it has grown nonstop to become the largest and most decentralized network on the entire planet in about 13 years with absolutely 0 downtime. It wont be replaced by a competitor, because no other project can do what bitcoin did.

Crack hasn't gone away, either, but the government's done a pretty good job of making sure most people don't touch the trade.

 

[Kosher Dill]

What is interesting about mining to me is that it can generate a lot of heat without having to combust anything. Just heat radiating from off electronic components.

We've had that technology for over a century, it's called the "light bulb".
Electrically speaking, a CPU, GPU, or ASIC is just a fancier light bulb that diverts some energy into performing interesting calculations.

 

[NewRetroVagina23]

None of this will matter when Biden executive orders Bitcoin out of existence.

If the FEDs were that concerned with Bitcoin it'd already be going the way of Monero.

 

[Tuturesque]

We've had that technology for over a century, it's called the "light bulb".
Electrically speaking, a CPU, GPU, or ASIC is just a fancier light bulb that diverts some energy into performing interesting calculations.

Well yeah, we've had cars for over a century too, but most people aren't driving cars from 100 years ago because they're inefficient compared to newer tech. Besides, we're not exactly going to light up houses with asics, similar to how we're not going to heat up buildings with a light bulb.

 

[Kosher Dill]

similar to how we're not going to heat up buildings with a light bulb

But we do.

Electric Resistance Heating

Electric resistance heating can be expensive to operate, but may be appropriate if you heat a room infrequently or if it would be expensive to exte...

www.energy.gov

Same with electric ovens, the "heating element" works the same way as a light bulb filament, just tuned not to dump so much energy out as visible light.

Point being, converting electricity to heat is already something we do at extremely high efficiency for low cost, so it's not really a selling point for any new technology.
If we have a new technology that's worth using on its own merits, putting the heat to use can be an added bonus. Some datacenters find uses for the heat all their servers generate.

 

[Tuturesque]

But we do.

Electric Resistance Heating

Electric resistance heating can be expensive to operate, but may be appropriate if you heat a room infrequently or if it would be expensive to exte...

www.energy.gov

Same with electric ovens, the "heating element" works the same way as a light bulb filament, just tuned not to dump so much energy out as visible light.

Point being, converting electricity to heat is already something we do at extremely high efficiency for low cost, so it's not really a selling point for any new technology.
If we have a new technology that's worth using on its own merits, putting the heat to use can be an added bonus. Some datacenters find uses for the heat all their servers generate.

This is fair enough, I think where I get caught up is lightbulbs being used for heat. In the link, the device is used for heating, not lighting. Lightbulbs have generally gotten cooler as time goes on. The main selling point for the bitcoin miners as heating devices is that they generate revenue in the form of bitcoin. While a data center can be profitable, an asic is a lot simpler a device, and the cost to set-up and maintain a mining farm would be much lower.

 

[Secret Messages]

At any time, the feds or the Russians and Chinese can pull the plug on bitcoin.

They oughtright seized bitcoins during their war against the Silk Road drug website. Also, Russia and China supply the cheap fuel to keep bitcoin going; what happens when they pull the plug? All your savings go down the drain.

Plus, the whole thing operates as a ponzi scheme. The older holders of bitcoin make money by waiting until the currency gains value before selling it to the newer wave of suckers, and those suckers will then make money by waiting until bitcoin gets a higher value before selling it or exchanging it for fiat money.

Think. Why would people sell bitcoin for fiat money that's going to be worthless, if bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future? Wouldn't they want to hoard it the way feudal lords hoarded gold underneath their beds in the old days?

All this nonsense, and people could have just bartered gold, jewelry, and precious stones. At the end of the day, bitcoin was good for nothing outside of speculation and drug money.

Nobody can seize bitcoin from the network, the feds tracked him down and he agreed to forfeit the funds. Also wow, really, when there is demand for an asset, the value of it goes up and people that hold it benefit? Great analysis. Your point about China and Russia keeping bitcoin mining running with cheap fuel is ignorant as well. Bitcoin difficulty adjusts with the hashrate of the network, if they stopped mining it would just become easier for everyone else. this reply is dumb and if you knew anything about the thing you’re lambasting I wouldn’t have to tell you why.

 

[byuu]

Well yeah, we've had cars for over a century too, but most people aren't driving cars from 100 years ago because they're inefficient compared to newer tech. Besides, we're not exactly going to light up houses with asics, similar to how we're not going to heat up buildings with a light bulb.

Electrical heating is 100% efficient by definition, since any "losses" end up being heat anyway.
There's nothing modern technology can solve there.

It's still a wasteful costly method to generate heat in most places. You take the electrical energy that a plant had to generate from heat just to turn it into heat again. The few cents you make mining won't even offset the high costs for the miners.

 

[SnekTheRat]

I invested in bitcoin briefly a few years ago for a lack. I doubled my money and cashed out luckily before a dip, and never bought back in. It's an interesting concept, and I do agree with some of the intentions behind it. Even so, it led me to consider some of the philosophical problems behind currency systems in general, and when investigating further, I just got confused. Oh well, an economist I'll never be.

As for advice: invest in a trade. Everyone needs goods and services, and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Investment advice? Get insider info. It works for politicians...

 

[The Ugly One]

Electrical heating is 100% efficient by definition, since any "losses" end up being heat anyway.

I worked for a place that used heat from the server racks to reduce their heating bill during the year. It wasn't a net gain, because the summer got pretty hot, and all that heat had to be blown off. Thermodynamics has a way of making you pay, no matter how smart you think you are.

 

[Lone MacReady]

Stayed away from bitcoin and coinbase because they didn't seem anonymous. Then the Canadian government proved it for me, and coinbase worked with them. I'll be staying away from valueless digits that can be tracked, not much different from FEDcoin. Back those digits with physical Gold and maybe I'll look its way.