Disaster Boeing Starliner crewed test flight delayed indefinitely

May 22 (UPI) -- Boeing's Starliner manned Crew Flight test has been indefinitely delayed after a string of issues, NASA officials said.

The launch has been scheduled for no earlier than Saturday, and no new date has been announced.

"The team has been in meetings for two consecutive days, assessing flight rationale, system performance and redundancy. There is still forward work in these areas, and the next possible launch opportunity is still being discussed," NASA, Boeing and United Launch Alliance said in a statement.

The original May 6 launch date to send a crew to the International Space Station was canceled, and subsequently the launch date was pushed back multiple times.

The Starliner has experienced several different issues that delayed the launches, including a problem with a pressure valve on the Centaur upper stage oxygen tank and a small helium leak in the spacecraft service module.

Florida Tech's Don Platt, an associate professor in the College of Engineering and Science, told WESH-Ch. 2 that with people onboard, the launch team is being extra careful.

"I think that if a satellite was onboard this rocket, it might be in orbit right now. But there's no reason to make bad choices and risk anything on a test flight that has some level of risk associated with it," he said.

Astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams have been in quarantine through these launch delays. They returned to Houston on May 10 to spend more time with their families as the prelaunch procedures continue.

Starliner failed to reach the space station in 2019 after a software issue that put the spacecraft in the wrong orbit. Another uncrewed flight in 2022 made it after dealing with dozens of issues.

Starliner's Crew Flight Test mission to the space station is developmental, and NASA and Boeing officials have said safety is emphasized over launch schedules.

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/20...er-launch-delayed-indefinitely/9461716392236/ (Archive)

 

[Betonhaus]

The US wanted a monopoly, and they got a monopoly. Every single competitor was either purchased by Boeing or pushed out of the market. The Bombardier C-series would've been an excellent plane but Boeing used it's contacts to disqualify it and force bombardier to sell the design to Airbus for pennies. Now there is nobody that can compete with Boeing and make it strive to better itself, and now that Boeing is dying there's nothing that can replace it.

 

[Susanna]

What is equally worrying is none of the problems NASA has described, the helium leaks or the thruster should be enough to delay or scrub the return mission. Yet they keep delaying. Why?

These are actually big problems. Lose one thruster block and you can compensate. Lose two and you may be reentering sideways, which means your ablative heat shield is pointed away from the cloud of plasma you’re riding down on. Bad news. Thruster failure is absolutely a good reason to scrub the vehicle and pay us (Russians) to send up an unmanned Soyuz to bring them back on. Not an option with the SpaceX death trap afaik, unlike the Soyuz I don’t think that one has ever done remote controlled rendezvous and docking.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

I heard from a well-placed source that one of the issues stopping them from deorbiting Starliner with no astronauts aboard is that the thruster issue could actually overheat in a way that would cause damage to the ISS during the undocking procedure. No idea how accurate that is but the person is in some position to have knowledge. I'm sure there are other considerations as well, but it's worth remembering that even if they decide to keep the astronauts and send them down on a Crew Dragon, there are other issues with that craft being affixed to the space station.

 

[Betonhaus]

I heard from a well-placed source that one of the issues stopping them from deorbiting Starliner with no astronauts aboard is that the thruster issue could actually overheat in a way that would cause damage to the ISS during the undocking procedure. No idea how accurate that is but the person is in some position to have knowledge. I'm sure there are other considerations as well, but it's worth remembering that even if they decide to keep the astronauts and send them down on a Crew Dragon, there are other issues with that craft being affixed to the space station.

Could they use the canadarm to push it away?

 

[Rei is Shit.]

Funny 'lil issue with this thing is it can only be de-orbited with the service module, the capsule part doesn't have the ability to do it on its own, and the leak issues are with the SM part.

Did Boeing forget what reliability metrics is?

 

[RodgerDodger]

These are actually big problems. Lose one thruster block and you can compensate. Lose two and you may be reentering sideways, which means your ablative heat shield is pointed away from the cloud of plasma you’re riding down on. Bad news. Thruster failure is absolutely a good reason to scrub the vehicle and pay us (Russians) to send up an unmanned Soyuz to bring them back on. Not an option with the SpaceX death trap afaik, unlike the Soyuz I don’t think that one has ever done remote controlled rendezvous and docking.

SpaceX did I believe 2 unmanned remote dockings as part of their certification to carry humans. Plus there is a Cargo variant of the Dragon Capsule that goes up fully remote piloted periodically. We don't remember the unmanned crew Dragon missions anymore because they went about as close to perfect as you could hope for. They were also the moment that much of the internet went from pointing and laughing at SpaceX to suddenly going "oh shit! They might actually be able to do this". A moment that I don't think anyone has had yet for Starliner.

 

[George Lucas]

I heard from a well-placed source that one of the issues stopping them from deorbiting Starliner with no astronauts aboard is that the thruster issue could actually overheat in a way that would cause damage to the ISS during the undocking procedure. No idea how accurate that is but the person is in some position to have knowledge. I'm sure there are other considerations as well, but it's worth remembering that even if they decide to keep the astronauts and send them down on a Crew Dragon, there are other issues with that craft being affixed to the space station.

It will be hilarious if the Starliner has to be left attached to the ISS indefinitely as a beacon of Boeing's incompetence for years to come. I can see the headlines now: 'NASA puts off Starliner detachment to 2030'.

 

[That_Guy]

Starliner is on one of the two IDA docking ports. Everything most that's not Russian (Cygnus uses an IDA port, so some cargo up in that.) has to dock on one of them. The way things are run up there currently is that everybody aboard has their ride back down ready to gtfo all the time. There's no place to dock cargo unless the crew capsule undocks to free up the port and that would be an enormous headache. The Russian crew would have to handle unloading and reloading with downmass and/or garbage and get the whole job done fast. Crew Dragon has a 10-day free-flight lifetime* and ~ 3 days of that is used just getting there and leaving once. They really can't supply the station and have people on it at the same time with only one usable docking port. And crew rotations overlap a bit and need both ports to do that. That thing's coming off fairly soon one way or another.

*Probably can go longer but there's a hard limit somewhere. Maybe co2 scrubbing?
Edit: Cygnus correction

 

[elite_club]

Alright, so why not just u dock it and have an astronaut give it a small amount of momentum on EVA with the space suits thruster pack, then remotely deorbit the capsule?

 

[AnotherPleb]

Funny 'lil issue with this thing is it can only be de-orbited with the service module, the capsule part doesn't have the ability to do it on its own, and the leak issues are with the SM part.

Did Boeing forget what reliability metrics is?

Metrics are rayciss' n sheet.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

If my company was named Boeing I would launch my shuttle with a giant spring.

 

[Susanna]

Alright, so why not just u dock it and have an astronaut give it a small amount of momentum on EVA with the space suits thruster pack, then remotely deorbit the capsule?

As impractical as it is unsafe.
Those thruster packs only have a few metres per second of delta-v to begin with, and that’s for one man in a spacesuit. Pushing the entire vehicle with it would amount to less than the tidal forces on the station, even if it does move away from the station it’ll come crashing back into it after half an orbit, possibly doing quite a bit of damage.
The only option is getting the thrusters working so it can be remote-controlled deorbited empty while the crew ride down to earth safe on a Soyuz. And because that would be humiliating for Biden, they’re going to be staying at the station until after the election.

 

[That_Guy]

Besides not having any (Those were a Shuttle thing, tested out but never really used.) There's really no need. The capsule could be undocked empty and have the whole station back away from it if the capsule's RCS didn't work at all. The problems are that the crew has to get a ride down somehow and this trip is the manned qualification mission. If it doesn't bring the crew back itself Boeing won't get certified to fly the crew rotation missions they signed a contract to do. I don't know what the details of the contract are if they can't deliver but the P.R. fallout would be absolutely epic. And then SpaceX would probably be the ones to pick up Boeing's slack afterwards which would be another kick in the junk for Boeing.

 

[Betonhaus]

---

NASA Chooses Elon Musk's Company for Disposal of Space Station​

Makes sense. Relations with Russia will be icy and the Starliner may still be attached.

---

US sanctions Boeing for sharing information about 737 Max 9 investigation​

Boeing is being sanctioned by U.S. investigators for sharing information about a federal investigation of a door plug blowout that left a gaping hole in a Boeing 737 Max 9.

The National Transportation Safety Board said Thursday that Boeing “blatantly violated” the agency's investigative regulations as well as a signed agreement by providing non-public investigative information to the media and speculating about possible causes of the Jan. 5 door plug blowout on a Boeing passenger jet in Portland, Oregon.


During the incident, a panel that plugged a space left for an extra emergency door blew off an Alaska Airlines Max 9. Pilots were able to land safely, and there were no injuries.

The NTSB said that during a media briefing on Tuesday, a Boeing executive provided non-public investigative information to journalists about the Alaska Airlines incident that the agency had not verified or authorized for release.

 

[Susanna]

NASA Chooses Elon Musk's Company for Disposal of Space Station​

Makes sense. Relations with Russia will be icy and the Starliner may still be attached.

Not that it matters, but a single progress or crew dragon, which are both already docked, would have enough delta-v to do this. Building a special vehicle just to lower periapsis a few km is just a play for funding, they’ll cancel the mission once media has forgotten about it and pocket the money.

There’s been speculation that we may detach the Russian segment and build a new joint station with China and India, but I doubt anything will come of it. China already has a great station and while I’m sure the ROS still works fine, most of what it does is basic infrastructure and operations (power systems, fuel systems, docking, control and navigation etc), so without some new labs to attach to it it’ll just be a vanity project if we do keep it up on our own.

 

[Betonhaus]

Not that it matters, but a single progress or crew dragon, which are both already docked, would have enough delta-v to do this. Building a special vehicle just to lower periapsis a few km is just a play for funding, they’ll cancel the mission once media has forgotten about it and pocket the money.

There’s been speculation that we may detach the Russian segment and build a new joint station with China and India, but I doubt anything will come of it. China already has a great station and while I’m sure the ROS still works fine, most of what it does is basic infrastructure and operations (power systems, fuel systems, docking, control and navigation etc), so without some new labs to attach to it it’ll just be a vanity project if we do keep it up on our own.

you sure you wouldn't put a secret spy team on it? or make it into a dry dock for a bigger long distance spaceship? Once the war ends it might be useful to have a vanity project to keep the citizens inspired and focused on a goal.

 

[Susanna]

you sure you wouldn't put a secret spy team on it? or make it into a dry dock for a bigger long distance spaceship? Once the war ends it might be useful to have a vanity project to keep the citizens inspired and focused on a goal.

I’m personally 100% in favour of keeping a space station, even if we’re only putting people in it to maintain our competence. But it’s expensive and realistically that’s money that could be lining some politician’s pocket.

 

[Betonhaus]