Borderlands (1, 2, 3, The Pre-Sequel, TftB)

[rabo]

The writers from 2 and TPS confirmed that the body double you killed in 2 isnt Timothy and that he is still alive during the events of 2. Borderlands 3 references him on a poster, a real misopportunity if they dont bring him in the DLC as a surprise "HJ" return but surprise, its Timothy so you kind of have Jack back but no an actual hero.
There is a fair balance between keeping the characters alive or not. When its done for shock value, its bad but when it makes sense and adds to the story, its good.
Roland's Death was a good example of subverting expectations since Roland was pretty much the "hero" of B2 and he got killed off just like that by HJ
Maya's Death was a bad example for multiple reasons but the fact it was a very preventable tragedy caused by an abnoxious brat that the game is doing all it can to force her into the spotlight at the cost of much superior characters...yeah.

That's pretty much what happens when the old writters are gone. The new shits helming this make their own characters and they care more about the charcater they made than the legacy cast. And of course don't want that legacy cast to steal the show, so they kill them off.

 

[The handsome tard]

That's pretty much what happens when the old writters are gone. The new shits helming this make their own characters and they care more about the charcater they made than the legacy cast. And of course don't want that legacy cast to steal the show, so they kill them off.

I always found that to be so childish and insulting
You have so little faith in your writing and characters that you need to kill off the superior legacy characters to force the new ones into the spotlight. Thats painfully cheap writing. Thats what Star Wars and The Terminator did and look how it went for them.
Now we are stuck with inferior characters that we dont feel like following anymore, I mean

Zero is a freaking servant now
Maya was thanos snapped
Salvadore and Axton are MIA, not even a single reference or log about them
Gaige is aparently on the run and not constantly kicking ass with Deathtrap (you would think she would want to kick the ass of who are using her design)
Krieg seemed to be having a way more interesting side story with him finally adquiring some level of sanity and they DONT explore that amazing possibility at all (especially with Maya's death and how that would affect Krieg's sanity)
Roland kicked the bucket when the series was still good
Lillith became space Jesus
Mordecai and Brick were far too much on the side lines when they should have been given way more focus
The Watcher was nowhere to be seen
The "War" that was hinted in TPS and Tales didnt happen (or gave any signs that it was still yet to happen)
The story is kind of done, isnt it? Years of build up and mystery about some sort of Endgame type event and...thats it, thats all we got.
Welp, it has been fun, for me, the series starts at B1 and ends at Tales from the Borderlands and what happened afterwards is up to us.

Besides, I fucking doubt B4 is still happening, Gearbox really doesnt seem its going to survive for very long after this small boost.

 

[heyilikeyourmom]

I’m finally getting around to playing that Fight For Sanctuary DLC. I’m amazed at how good it’s been.

 

[Gar For Archer]

I’m finally getting around to playing that Fight For Sanctuary DLC. I’m amazed at how good it’s been.

I’ve only played the Tiny Tina DLC so far (was way too overlevelled for the other ones, and didn’t feel like starting a TVHM run right after finishing the game) and honestly its writing is well above the main game. I was genuinely surprised that there was actually, like, a theme to the story. If only they could write a whole game like that!

 

[JamFlowMan]

I always found that to be so childish and insulting
You have so little faith in your writing and characters that you need to kill off the superior legacy characters to force the new ones into the spotlight. Thats painfully cheap writing. Thats what Star Wars and The Terminator did and look how it went for them.
Now we are stuck with inferior characters that we dont feel like following anymore, I mean

Zero is a freaking servant now
Maya was thanos snapped
Salvadore and Axton are MIA, not even a single reference or log about them
Gaige is aparently on the run and not constantly kicking ass with Deathtrap (you would think she would want to kick the ass of who are using her design)
Krieg seemed to be having a way more interesting side story with him finally adquiring some level of sanity and they DONT explore that amazing possibility at all (especially with Maya's death and how that would affect Krieg's sanity)
Roland kicked the bucket when the series was still good
Lillith became space Jesus
Mordecai and Brick were far too much on the side lines when they should have been given way more focus
The Watcher was nowhere to be seen
The "War" that was hinted in TPS and Tales didnt happen (or gave any signs that it was still yet to happen)
The story is kind of done, isnt it? Years of build up and mystery about some sort of Endgame type event and...thats it, thats all we got.
Welp, it has been fun, for me, the series starts at B1 and ends at Tales from the Borderlands and what happened afterwards is up to us.

Besides, I fucking doubt B4 is still happening, Gearbox really doesnt seem its going to survive for very long after this small boost.

Just have to add Tannis went from quirky side character on the same level as Dr Zed or Marcus to the second most important person in the Crimson Raiders. Lillith being upgraded from Rolands girlfriend to hero of the series is one thing, but at least she was an active fighter at one point.

A lot of problems come from the story not revolving around the character you're playing, despite the fact you're the only person doing anything. Admittingly I know dick about game design, but there were only 5-6 cutscenes in the game they couldn't throw the character you are in there? Hell put all 4 Vault hunters regardless of how many people are playing, it wouldn't be any more immersion breaking then what they did having none.

Went into this game with the lowest of expectations for the story, because admittingly it doesn't matter past a first playthrough or at all, and it still didn't clear the bar.

 

[The handsome tard]

Just have to add Tannis went from quirky side character on the same level as Dr Zed or Marcus to the second most important person in the Crimson Raiders. Lillith being upgraded from Rolands girlfriend to hero of the series is one thing, but at least she was an active fighter at one point.

Most of these problems come from the story not revolving around the character you're playing, despite the fact you're the only person doing anything. Admittingly I know dick about game design, but there were only 5-6 cutscenes in the game they couldn't throw the character you are in there? Hell put all 4 Vault hunters regardless of how many people are playing, it wouldn't be any more immersion breaking then what they did having none.

Went into this game with the lowest of expectations for the story, because admittingly it doesn't matter past a first playthrough or at all, and it still didn't clear the bar.

The thing is, even in B1, where there was almost no story, the game still had a lot of personality, the sequel amped that by actually having a pretty decent plot with HJ being easily one of the best villains in gaming history just out of sheer charisma from his personality, same goes for TPS (despite being inferior on that aspect). B3? Has none of that. The personality from the "trilogy" isnt there as much, it occasionally pops up and then leaves (coincidentally when Eva opens her mouth), usually the mood whiplashes in Borderlands were done as self aware jokes, in B3, its because the writers are that bad.

 

[Raging Capybara]

When Roland dies in Borderlands 2 we can listen to the reaction of almost all the characters, even totally secondary ones like Marcus. When Maya dies in B3, nobody cares.

It's truly insulting how little the new writers care about old characters. I bet if that cunt Eva had died it would have a 40 minutes long cutscene of her funeral.

 

[The handsome tard]

When Roland dies in Borderlands 2 we can listen to the reaction of almost all the characters, even totally secondary ones like Marcus. When Maya dies in B3, nobody cares.

It's truly insulting how little the new writers care about old characters. I bet if that cunt Eva had died it would have a 40 minutes long cutscene of her funeral.

Say whatever you want about Roland, they made his death a big deal, to the point they centered an entire DLC over the acceptance of his and Bloodwing's passing (and there is a statue of him in B3 at least).
Maya? Oh man, poor Maya...If only it was B2 Maya, she would have kicked their asses (back when she was written much better). But no one reacted the same and I doubt the DLC will focus on her instead of Eva (Christ, I hate that girl).
Besides we dont ever get to see Krieg's reaction, perhaps because that could create tension and drama with this being a "make or break" moment for his sanity to take full control or truly fade away (in either case, Krieg would be thirsty for revenge/justice). Hell, a log between him and Maya talking (something we never truly have seen until them outside of his trailer) does show that Maya cares a lot for Krieg (if not starting to get romantic a bit, I mean, his pecs have pecs...) so it shows they were aware of it, they just didnt bother exploring this outside of that log.
Borderlands 3 feels incomplete, and I dont mean in a "DLC" type of way, it feels like we played the sketch version of the plot that needs a lot of ironing out re-writes to craft a decent story underneath, but the current writers didnt care in favor of their precious Eva...

 

[JamFlowMan]

The thing is, even in B1, where there was almost no story, the game still had a lot of personality, the sequel amped that by actually having a pretty decent plot with HJ being easily one of the best villains in gaming history just out of sheer charisma from his personality, same goes for TPS (despite being inferior on that aspect). B3? Has none of that. The personality from the "trilogy" isnt there as much, it occasionally pops up and then leaves (coincidentally when Eva opens her mouth), usually the mood whiplashes in Borderlands were done as self aware jokes, in B3, its because the writers are that bad.

A great example of 3 lacking the series personality is the splash intros. In the other games you'd meet a character or enter a boss fight and you'd get their name and some funny line. They were hit or miss but 3 didn't even try for something clever. It was the name and some bland bullshit. Haven't played Borderlands 1 in a few years but still remember Nine Toes also has 3 balls. It's not like that's hilarious, but apparently it's memorable. Played 3 over the past few days and can't even remember one to give as an example for this post.

 

[The handsome tard]

A great example of 3 lacking the series personality is the splash intros. In the other games you'd meet a character or enter a boss fight and you'd get their name and some funny line. They were hit or miss but 3 didn't even try for something clever. It was the name and some bland bullshit. Haven't played Borderlands 1 in a few years but still remember Nine Toes also has 3 balls. It's not like that's hilarious, but apparently it's memorable. Played 3 over the past few days and can't even remember one to give as an example for this post.

The Splash Intros are actually pretty clever ways to expose personality, like with Nine Toes, does the fact we need to know he has 3 balls is logical? No, and thats the point, this is the intro to a psycho boss, its meant to be random and non-sensical. Usually the way it goes is this
"NAME"
"Personality trait with/or joke that relates to the character"
They could even occassionally break the fourth wall but that was pretty rare, like in Claptrap's Intro in Tales.
B3's intro feel generic like
"NAME"
"*insert random "lol" joke*"

 

[heyilikeyourmom]

I’ve only played the Tiny Tina DLC so far (was way too overlevelled for the other ones, and didn’t feel like starting a TVHM run right after finishing the game) and honestly its writing is well above the main game. I was genuinely surprised that there was actually, like, a theme to the story. If only they could write a whole game like that!

Hector was a really great sort of posthumous foil to Handsome Jack too. Where Jack was a charismatic lovably-hateable idiot who deserved everything he got, Hector was competent, no-nonsense, and I actually felt bad for him and his men once I learned their story. Both great villains for completely different reasons.

I’m curious to see if I diskike the Calypso Twins in the meta way a lot of people seem to once I get far enough in 3. I’ve gotten as far as the second planet and while I don’t love them like Jack or Hector, they’re okay villains so far.

 

[heyilikeyourmom]

So i’m three-quarters into the main story and I honestly like the Calypsos as villains. I didn’t want to beat the shit out of Handsome Jack as badly as I wanna smack the bastard out of these entitled little monsters. They don’t have much in the way of motivation beyond just feeling like they should do what they’re doing just because they can, but I’m alright with that. Not every villain needs to be sympathetic.

Overall impressions thus far are positive. Even Maya’s death worked for me. It was abrupt, fucked up, and preventable as shit, but that was the point. I didn’t get the impression that the writers were failing to make us feel how they intended us to feel about it.

 

[Edgeworth]

So i’m three-quarters into the main story and I honestly like the Calypsos as villains. I didn’t want to beat the shit out of Handsome Jack as badly as I wanna smack the bastard out of these entitled little monsters. They don’t have much in the way of motivation beyond just feeling like they should do what they’re doing just because they can, but I’m alright with that. Not every villain needs to be sympathetic.

Overall impressions thus far are positive. Even Maya’s death worked for me. It was abrupt, fucked up, and preventable as shit, but that was the point. I didn’t get the impression that the writers were failing to make us feel how they intended us to feel about it.

Spoiler: game spoilers lol

My problem isn't with the death itself but it bugs the shit out of me that it COULD'VE been avoided if they didn't make Ava a little shit. That's where I think the writing fails - yeah, it wanted us to feel bad and angry and stuff over Maya's death but the problem I think a lot of people had, myself included, is that the writing ALSO wanted us to empathize with Ava and her anger and a lot of people didn't because she's a brat who ruins, like, everything and not only gets away with her tantrums but she's rewarded like she did anything to earn any of it. Maya players love Maya and don't think it fair or well-written to just kill her off because some newcomer character did something stupid.

Also Troy's best Calypso and should've been the final boss don't @ me

 

[Zaryiu]

What's the dlc like? My younger brother brought it if i remember correctly

 

[PumpkinSpiceBitchMeringue]

What's the dlc like? My younger brother brought it if i remember correctly

Well the consensus seems to be that it's leagues better than the base game.

Here's the intro, spoilers afterwards

Spoiler: Secret secrecy

The one you were waiting for

The Antagonist/ How the DLC ends

I'm at least glad you-know-who is alright but I don't think the good feeling will last long.

 

[Edgeworth]

I wasn't sure what to expect from the DLC but I was mostly pleasantly surprised - you-know-who is one of my favourite characters and their writing just shows that the writers like them, too.

It just goes to show that they always need to fall back on Handsome Jack eventually, which is frustrating sometimes. "Well, we blew it with our antagonists.... Hey people like Handsome Jack, let's just make the first DLC about him!" The whole "heist" angle is pretty fun, though - gives a chance to meet some weird-ass characters. Moxxi's still a cunt.

 

[Snake of Diamond]

The writers from 2 and TPS confirmed that the body double you killed in 2 isnt Timothy and that he is still alive during the events of 2. Borderlands 3 references him on a poster, a real misopportunity if they dont bring him in the DLC as a surprise "HJ" return but surprise, its Timothy so you kind of have Jack back but no an actual hero.
There is a fair balance between keeping the characters alive or not. When its done for shock value, its bad but when it makes sense and adds to the story, its good.
Roland's Death was a good example of subverting expectations since Roland was pretty much the "hero" of B2 and he got killed off just like that by HJ
Maya's Death was a bad example for multiple reasons but the fact it was a very preventable tragedy caused by an abnoxious brat that the game is doing all it can to force her into the spotlight at the cost of much superior characters...yeah.

Maya's death didn't feel natural to me it only felt like they were trying to force the same tension with the Roland death and make the battle with the Calypso Twins more personal but in a bland artificial way opposed to the "love to hate" obnoxious way they were portrayed in the first place.

It just goes to show that they always need to fall back on Handsome Jack eventually, which is frustrating sometimes. "Well, we blew it with our antagonists.... Hey people like Handsome Jack, let's just make the first DLC about him!" The whole "heist" angle is pretty fun, though - gives a chance to meet some weird-ass characters. Moxxi's still a cunt.

They literally made him a playable character in The Pre-Sequel and as a whole BL3 feels like a sitcom reel of characters. Brick shows up and I expect a whoop and cheers from the audience.

 

[The Fair Lady]

A couple people on Tumblr did some data mining into 3, and apparently everything after the fight with Troy was scrapped and rewritten for some reason. The twins were going to have much different roles.

This Blog Has Spoilers In It

uploading higher quality pics bc the ones i shared were just screenshots (sorry). these are transparent. titled ECHOportaitTroyevil and ECHOportaitTyreenevil instead of just the basic ECHOportraitTroy...

cruddyborderlandstheories.tumblr.com

Spoiler: Tl;dr and cut content

-Troy wasn't going to die after the fight, but instead become super-powered.
-Tyreen was going to get leeched to death in the fight and then be revived with Eridium by Troy, effectively swapping their roles as host and parasite.
-Scooter had a son named Scooper who Ellie was (supposed to be) taking care of and a quest revolved around him.

Tyreen's death quote:

the calypsos own my ass

Mild spoilers. Cut content. Tyreen’s death line when Troy leeches too much energy from her.

circiva.tumblr.com

Troy's reaction to Tyreen's death:

the calypsos own my ass

Mild spoilers. Cut content. Just a glimpse of what could have been, narratively :’)

circiva.tumblr.com

Ellie's Scooper quotes:

cruddy is very tired

context: https://cruddyborderlandstheories.tumblr.com/post/190444990947/border-spam-with-permission-from#notes a bunch of cut content for scooper. mayhaps i ...

www.youtube.com

Unused ECHO icons:

Gearbox, you dun goofed.

 

[Edgeworth]

Why do devs/filmmakers nowadays go with the stupid plots instead of the interesting ones?

 

[Hideous K]

A couple people on Tumblr did some data mining into 3, and apparently everything after the fight with Troy was scrapped and rewritten for some reason. The twins were going to have much different roles.

This Blog Has Spoilers In It

uploading higher quality pics bc the ones i shared were just screenshots (sorry). these are transparent. titled ECHOportaitTroyevil and ECHOportaitTyreenevil instead of just the basic ECHOportraitTroy...

cruddyborderlandstheories.tumblr.com

Spoiler: Tl;dr and cut content

-Troy wasn't going to die after the fight, but instead become super-powered.
-Tyreen was going to get leeched to death in the fight and then be revived with Eridium by Troy, effectively swapping their roles as host and parasite.
-Scooter had a son named Scooper who Ellie was (supposed to be) taking care of and a quest revolved around him.

Tyreen's death quote:

the calypsos own my ass

Mild spoilers. Cut content. Tyreen’s death line when Troy leeches too much energy from her.

circiva.tumblr.com

Troy's reaction to Tyreen's death:

the calypsos own my ass

Mild spoilers. Cut content. Just a glimpse of what could have been, narratively :’)

circiva.tumblr.com

Ellie's Scooper quotes:

cruddy is very tired

context: https://cruddyborderlandstheories.tumblr.com/post/190444990947/border-spam-with-permission-from#notes a bunch of cut content for scooper. mayhaps i ...

www.youtube.com

Unused ECHO icons:
View attachment 1113324
View attachment 1113325

Gearbox, you dun goofed.

What with game devs and deleting good ideas?