US Car Repos Are Exploding. That’s a Bad Omen. - A surge in repossessed autos reflects broader economic problems. The question: How might a bursting of an auto bubble affect the broader U.S. economy?


1657439033150.png

Ford CFO John Lawler said in June that the company had started to see delinquencies increase. Here, a cars at a

Ford factory are prepared for distribution.


The jobs report and minutes from the Federal Reserve’s June meeting were the economic highlights of the week, but they are, respectively, a lagging indicator and old news. This column instead digs into the auto market, where there is an underappreciated ticking time bomb.

Lucky Lopez is a car dealer who has been in the business for about 20 years. In recent meetings with bankers, where he bids on repossessed vehicles before they go to auction, he has noticed some common characteristics of the defaulted loans. Most of the loans on recently repossessed cars originated during 2020 and 2021, whereas origination dates are normally scattered because people fall on hard times at different times; loan-to-value ratios, or the amount financed relative to the value of the vehicle, are around 140%, versus a more normal 80%; and many of the loans were extended to buyers who had temporary pops in income during the pandemic. Those monthly incomes fell—sometimes by half—as pandemic stimulus programs stopped, and now they look even worse on an inflation-adjusted basis and as the prices of basics in particular are climbing.

Sticker Shock

Used-car prices are more than $10,000 above typically expected levels, or what one observer says is a bubble that 'is beginning to show signs of bursting soon.'

1657439197325.png


Part of the problem is that some consumers’ incomes were temporarily high as the pandemic brought about debt forbearance, pandemic stimulus checks, enhanced unemployment benefits, and, in some cases, forgiven loans from the Paycheck Protection Program. Lopez says he recently bought a Bentley, McLaren and two Aston Martins—all purchased by buyers using PPP money as down payments, and all repossessed after few or no monthly payments.Another recent acquisition: a Silverado repossessed from a borrower with a solid 700 credit score who made two payments.

Banks’ auto lending standards, meanwhile, went out the window, and then lenders jumped on the bandwagon of overpaying for cars, Lopez says. “Everybody thought the free gravy train would never end,” Lopez says.

Now, he says he has never seen so many people making $2,500 a month owing $1,000 a month in car payments. That’s about double the maximum portion of income many financial advisors recommend allocating toward a car payment. “The idea that the economy is strong? Anyone who is actually doing business sees things are not strong,” says Lopez. “We had a housing bubble in 2008, and now we have an auto bubble.”

Consider data from car-shopping app CoPilot, which monitors daily online inventory across dealers nationwide to track what they say is the difference between a car’s listed price and what it would be worth if not for extraordinary pandemic dynamics. In June, used-car prices were up 43%, or $10,046 above projected “normal” levels, the company says.

As Danielle DiMartino Booth, CEO of Quill Intelligence puts it, companies in the business of repossessing autos are among the first to know when economic trouble is brewing. And now those companies are buying car lots to handle the flood of repossessed, used cars coming to the market because what they are seeing is a longer and harder recession, she says. Lopez says banks are in turn leasing more land to handle an expected car-repossession surge.

Some auto executives have hinted of turbulence. Earlier this year, Vickie Judy, CFO of America’s Car-Mart CRMT –2.79% (ticker: CRMT), discussed rising car repossession rates on an earnings call. In June, Ford F –0.26% (F) CFO John Lawler said the company had started to see delinquencies increase.

Lopez says it is hard to track vehicle repossession rates because banks are loath to talk about them. But based on what he says he has seen from banks, subprime repos have nearly doubled since 2020, to around 11% on average. The bigger red flag is in prime repos, where borrowers have higher credit scores. Lopez says usually about 2% of prime loans wind up repossessed. Now, that rate is at about 4%. Some of that can be explained by pandemic support temporarily making some consumers look like better borrowers. But it probably doesn’t fully explain the jump in prime defaults, thus suggesting a wider swath of consumers are struggling despite narratives around large cash cushions and a strong job market buffering households as inflation bites, interest rates rise, and financial markets melt.

Pamela Foohey, law professor at Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University, warned in 2021 of an auto-loan crisis. She wrote then that heading into the pandemic, auto loans outstanding were at record levels and auto-loan delinquencies were hitting new highs almost every quarter. The bubble was about to burst, it seemed, but government pandemic responses meant the bottom didn’t fall out of the auto-loan market. The measures were temporary, she warned then, and the bubble has since only grown.

Barron’s checked in with Foohey this past week. “The bubble is beginning to show signs of bursting soon,” she says, pointing to the overall spike in car prices that has led to larger loans and to rising repossession rates.

What is bubbling in the auto market reflects broader economic problems. The question: How might a bursting of an auto bubble affect the broader U.S. economy? Data published in May by the New York Fed shows Americans’ auto debt rose $87 billion for the year ended in March, to $1.47 trillion. That represents about a 10th of total consumer debt, which rose 8.2% over the same period.

One place the trouble is starting to show up, Lopez says, is on banks’ balance sheets. He says banks that were giving auto loans with LTVs of around 140 are now getting around 70 at auction—meaning they are losing substantial money. Foohey says the increase in auto loans and the increase in delinquencies and defaults track an increase in defaults on personal loans and credit cards.

There is a silver lining in that the weaker economy the auto trouble both reflects and portends should cool inflation. But it might not be that simple, at least not right away. “A lot of the banks—they’re smart. They control the market, like diamonds,” Lopez says. “As repos pour in, they only release them so often,” he says, meaning auto prices will probably remain stubborn even as economic growth wanes and more repos mean more used-car inventory.

That will also remain the case for inflation broadly, with stagflation the only alternative to a deeper-than-expected recession.




Time to start buying auction cars. People will finally remember that the game has been rigged from the start.

Will said it best in "Margin Call", listen carefully:


Fractional reserve banking and cronyism is empowered by the average day person who lives beyond their means in apathy.
 
Last edited:
When I got my car in 2019 the dealership got me a better interest rate than any banks I looked around could.
wouldn't it take longer for a bank to repossess your shit so they work on a government bureaucracy time.
you dont make payment a car place takes your shit right away since they have staff for it.
a bank has to go through a process to repossess.
 
Ah so a larger down payment gooses the numbers....which makes sense because it would show some discipline.
It was a fascinating job. I never saw the customer in person so all I saw was what was submitted by the dealer. The lending software does some analysis and scores it. The better the score, the easier it is to approve; but there’s still some work done to validate what’s there and watch for the known stuff that artificially inflated the score.

Obvious approvals and rejections are easy, the magic is in the middle where a lot of negotiation happens.

So the finance manager at the dealership can’t see my score, but they see enough deals that they figure out the patterns over time. They figure out how to goose marginal deals.

The following things make your loan likely to sail through more easily: long time on job and at residence. Large down payment. Own your home outright. Good credit is obvious.

If the dealer sees you have decent credit they might “round up” or bullshit on one other thing to increase your deal’s score. Especially if it’s something he knows we don’t normally check.

I don’t miss those days but I am so glad I got to see that whole process. Set me on the right track by seeing how many “rich people” are so close to losing it all.
 
LOL Lucky Lopez is my cousin. Would it shock you if I told you his name isn't really Lucky?


When I got my car in 2019 the dealership got me a better interest rate than any banks I looked around could.
Actually the captive finance companies can beat the banks because those subvented rates come out of the marketing budget. The banks have to charge a rate that is in line with their normal lending business.
 
wouldn't it take longer for a bank to repossess your shit so they work on a government bureaucracy time.
you dont make payment a car place takes your shit right away since they have staff for it.
a bank has to go through a process to repossess.
Nope every state and province has very strict laws and processes on how to repossess property.

Please believe; the LAST thing the bank/finco wants is your car. They signed up to collect your payments, not your Explorer.

Pro tip: if you are having problems making your payments call your lender and let them know. If it’s something that may be temporary they will turn themselves inside out to help you through a temporary crisis like an unexpected expense or job loss. They might extend your loan and tack a payment or two onto the end to give you some breathing room now.

One: they will almost guaranteed lose money on a repo. Two: if they can help save your credit by extending your loan for a few months they keep you as a viable customer for future loans, and you might feel loyalty to them in return.
 
Last edited:
I don’t miss those days but I am so glad I got to see that whole process. Set me on the right track by seeing how many “rich people” are so close to losing it all.
So I had a older cousin who worked as a book keeper.

She answered an Ad in the the paper. Turns out it was this woman who was divorced. Guess what her Alimony was? 100K...a month for 5 years

This lady had nothing at the end of the 5 months.
 
So I had a older cousin who worked as a book keeper.

She answered an Ad in the the paper. Turns out it was this woman who was divorced. Guess what her Alimony was? 100K...a month for 5 years

This lady had nothing at the end of the 5 months.
Amazing. I imagine that’s the gold-digger’s lottery win; a smart one would set herself up for life. But that lack of long term thinking is terrifyingly common.

Although we hear a lot of sob stories about stranded widows, a lot of people are like this (although at a much smaller scale).
 
LOL Lucky Lopez is my cousin. Would it shock you if I told you his name isn't really Lucky?


When I got my car in 2019 the dealership got me a better interest rate than any banks I looked around could.
Banks give preferred rates to dealer plus manufacturer pre owned rate from respective dealers also offer or used to something like 0.9%
 
  • Informative
Reactions: make_it_so
Lots of dealers now are either refusing to take cash or demand full MSRP. They want you to go through their financing because the banks incentivized it with kickbacks.
You just don’t know how to negotiate. You pretend that you’re interested in financing, may even apply to it, get the dealer to commit that the price of the car is X, and then say “Oh, by the way, I’m paying cash”. They don’t want to give up their commission when the only thing left was your signature. If they foolishly raise the price, just walk out.
 
You just don’t know how to negotiate. You pretend that you’re interested in financing, may even apply to it, get the dealer to commit that the price of the car is X, and then say “Oh, by the way, I’m paying cash”. They don’t want to give up their commission when the only thing left was your signature. If they foolishly raise the price, just walk out.
Yep.

There are basically three moving parts on an auto deal: APR, payment, and cash price.

The dealer will sniff out the one you care about. They will move heaven and earth making you happy there and structuring the deal so they make their money in the area you are not paying attention to.
 
I remember when the covidbuxx started flowing, car dealerships were packed with retards getting new cars. They never once thought of what to do once the checks stopped rolling in, they just had the money burning a hole in their pocket and just had to buy a new car. The COVID checks were a great demonstration on why UBI will never work in America.
The metaphorical "Welfare Cadillac" became literal.
 
We gave every idiot in America thousands of "free" (not free) dollars that were spent on dumb shit instead of being put into savings accounts or helping with groceries. Not surprising.

I'm sure car dealerships across America were delighted to sign people up for 84 months at 9% to get them into a new shitbox with those Biden/Trump BUXX.
 
Repos exploding like a rear-ended Pinto, you say?

Kind of interesting. One of the places I swing by on my monthly shopping is near a military base. They had all kinds of signs out how you could use your Covid Relief Checks and your W2 to get a car.

Nothing funnier than pulling into Wal-Mart and seeing some E2 getting out of a $30K car.

That fuckers going to be in the repo lot before he hits E4.
 
Repos exploding like a rear-ended Pinto, you say?

Kind of interesting. One of the places I swing by on my monthly shopping is near a military base. They had all kinds of signs out how you could use your Covid Relief Checks and your W2 to get a car.

Nothing funnier than pulling into Wal-Mart and seeing some E2 getting out of a $30K car.

That fuckers going to be in the repo lot before he hits E4.
I was told this was normal, Hell I saw so many mustangs down in San Diego
 
Repos exploding like a rear-ended Pinto, you say?

Kind of interesting. One of the places I swing by on my monthly shopping is near a military base. They had all kinds of signs out how you could use your Covid Relief Checks and your W2 to get a car.

Nothing funnier than pulling into Wal-Mart and seeing some E2 getting out of a $30K car.

That fuckers going to be in the repo lot before he hits E4.
Just use your gangster army skills and murder the repomen:smug:
 
Banks knowingly sold hood rich retards cars that would get repossessed because it made that quarter's numbers look good. How is it consumers responsibility to take out good loans? Why do the banks even bother with credit score if they just give out loans to whoever?
 
Back