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They need to stray away from the turning red, Luca, elio, win or lose, art style
Cartoon Industry thread - Showcasing the Spergery of the Animation Industry
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If anything you wouldn't expect Pixar of all studios to be the ones to bring that style into theatrical animation, let alone 3D.
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- Feb 10, 2020
Something I hate is that you can tell there was an inspiration behind that style, like Ghibli or whatever, but all the beauty of it gets stripped out because it gets distilled into something that's cheap and mass-produceable.
I think the style worked great for Turning Red because it's a chubby Asian-inspired art style telling the story of a chubby Asian girl coming of age. But it doesn't work for everything because it's not meant to work for everything. Every film's visual language is part of its storytelling, that's why despite both being about dogs, Lady and the Tramp and 101 Dalmatians look so different. Beauty and the Beast doesn't look like Emperor's New Groove, Hercules doesn't look like Mulan, and 3D films like Elemental or Cars are both 3D but both look different too.
When the only reason they use a certain style is "because it's cheap," that's when it looks like shit. If we're going to go with cheap, I'd much rather have something cheap but familiar (like straight-to-video 90s animation) than cheap and modern (GrubHub ad.)
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- Feb 13, 2022
Holy shit...
This is like finding patient 0 behind every terrible disease that came after.
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For what it's worth, I never understood Ghibli movies as a kid and while I appreciate them now, I feel like they're overrated. They're solid films, but people just obsess over superficial aspects of them and the ways they're "whoa wacky Japanime" in comparison to Western media.
Brad Armpitt
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I've mentioned to many other cartoon enthusiasts in the past that the modern "beanmouth" style is just a crossbreeding of generic anime design philosophies (mainly Ghibli, pre-Z Dragonball and Sailor Moon) which had very round facial features, mixed in with the noodle people look that Adventure Time brought about in the early 2010s. The crew members behind many of the "uwu soft" shows that Cartoon Network and Disney were putting out before the big layoffs were all done by massive surface level weebs who got their start on tumblr. Some of those artists/animators eventually made it as high as Pixar and that's how you ended up with movies like Elio which are basically just CGI Steven Universe design wise.
Me personally, I never got the appeal of Ghibli films, they are impressive in a technical point of view but they don't really have much of a story. Yet people will think you are crazy for not thinking they are masterpieces. It's kind of like playing Crysis, yeah it's a fun game, but you can tell it was purely made just to show off the good visuals and nothing else.
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- Jan 20, 2022
Which ones are you talking about? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with people not liking or even actively disliking Ghibli films but Mononoke, Nausicaa, and Spirited Away had some pretty dense themes and storytelling. Then again I watched/read these during my environmentalist phase so that may color my opinion.
Brad Armpitt
kiwifarms.net
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Textbook example of a show that nobody watched getting cancelled and toon twitter suddenly getting upset about it
It wasn't the right choice of words, I did watch Kiki's Delivery Service a couple weeks back and thought "yeah that was fun" but after a while I couldn't remember what really went on in it other than that the witch lost her powers after being insecure. Then again it was one of Miyazaki's earlier films. So it was probably rough around the edges. I might have to give the big ones like Spirited Away a second look. I guess my apathetic view towards them just comes from the fact I never grew up with his stuff like so many in my generation did.
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- Sep 26, 2023
I like a handful of Ghibli films. Call me blasphemous, but I never liked Totoro. Too weird. Too much screaming.
Idk if anyone remembers, but back in the 00s it was very difficult to get Ghibli merch. It was not as hyper-saturated as it is now. I spent a lot of time as a teen gazing longlingly at merch (sold alongside copious amounts of gross Jap porn and hentai) on specialty import websites. Now? Now Ghibli merch is everywhere. Now Ghibli is culturally pre-approved popular anime. I wager most "fans" are like Sailor Moon fans in that they like the visual aesthetic as a fashion/vibe accessory and haven't actually watched any of it. Makes me a little bitter.
Anyway, these Pixar artists are trying to emulate the style without understanding why Ghibli works. And Ghibli works because Miyazaki is a man who has gone through countless life experiences. Unlike sheltered Californians who don't have an iota of life experience outside of "Oh no, I didn't fit in as a child. Puberty is hard. My parents hate me. I'm gay or something. Boohoo."
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Was Shmorky a Studio Ghibli fan?
Amaro
kiwifarms.net
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Same feel. I really enjoy many of them, but to watch any of these movies you have to lock into the slow-paced, dreamlike (being used as a neutral descriptor here, they're floaty and meandering) quality that every one of them has. Porco Rosso, Castle in the Sky, The Wind Rises, for instance, are beautiful films, but they both kinda fizzle out in a way that's extremely unsatisfying. Totoro is a poster child for that, but gets away with it more with me for being a story about the world of a small child- though imo Ponyo is that while being actually fun and charming. I think Mononoke, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle were such standouts in part because they're the closest the studio ever came to having a traditional plot (Howl's being based on the existing book by Diana Wynne Jones is probably to credit for that one). The Castle of Cagliostro dodges that as well by being based on an existing IP, though it has less mass appeal to people who don't know Lupin.
Telling the friends that had hyped Porco Rosso to me for months only for me to tell them that I thought it was fine (but had stunning background art!) felt like kicking their dog. Miyazaki's output in particular attracts so much glazing that it does induce some sperging out in me sometimes. I never resented his style in the past because, as said, I do generally really enjoy these movies, but The Boy and The Heron/How Do You Live was so masturbatory and unfocused that it did sort of bring the hate out of me when everyone I went to see it with had nothing but "oh, I liked it. especially the cute parrots!" or "i feel like he was saying something about creation but I need a second watch to understand it" when we talked about it afterwards. Like, i'm sorry, I think the emperor had no clothes on that one.
Overall though, I do love them and am generally a fan (I'll go to bat hard for Ponyo and Kaguya-Hime in addition to the standouts above, so the structure isn't always a huge detractor to me.). I just wish we could have a little more of a deep collective conversation about substance in animation, independent of visual/technical virtuosity.
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- Jan 20, 2022
I tend towards the idea that if you have to work to enjoy something, it probably sucks, ha ha, but certain films and prog rock are my personal exceptions!
Anyway, I took a Japanese film studies class in college and the lone anime was a Ghibli film - our professor was very harsh on anime from the beginning to weed out weebs. We watched Tokyo Story (1953) and Aka Hige (1965) before Spirited Away and it seemed to me that Japanese storytelling is very meandering, and that feeling and impact are just as much a plot point as action is. I don't really enjoy that, but I'm glad for this accident of taking this class and forcing me to analyze a culturally different way of storytelling. In this class one of my classmates asked me why "everyone looks so weird" in Spirited Away. I had already enjoyed Mononoke and read the Nausicaa manga on my own at this point so I was a little shocked, but could see what she meant. The Ghibli style is kind of...blobby. Yet somehow it's sumptuous and dynamic. I think it's a great style for projecting wholesomeness, everyday people in supernatural circumstances, and that dreamlike feeling you speak of. That's why those AI memes were so captivating. Who doesn't find Hitler Ghibli-fied and therefore normie-fied just a little jarring and interesting?
Anyway, Ghibli is the Ozu of anime blah blah blah.
Amaro
kiwifarms.net
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- Jun 12, 2025
Yeah, I would feel bad continuing this conversation without moving to a different thread, but your perspective on Japanese storytelling is the same as mine (and one I came to the first time I watched an Ozu film in college, lol) . It's interesting to realize the ideas of storytelling/structure you've taken for granted all your life aren't necessarily universal, and it's definitely enriched my experience of movies, even in the cases when the end product isn't as compelling to me. As far as ghibli goes, the visual style is at least consistently gorgeous in a way so many have tried and failed to emulate- I'm gonna wrap this up before I start trashing Wolf Children for 3 paragraphs.
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- Apr 28, 2021
Do you have the video of that guy's breakdown. Stuff like that is what this site is for.
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- Aug 31, 2023
I think what makes Studio Ghibli's films interesting in the context of both anime and animation as a whole is when you put them side-by-side with a lot of anime that became popular online in the past few decades. Remember, the 2000s were the peak of Moe anime, while the 2010s saw the rise of slightly grittier shows. Ghibli's stuff isn't really "4Chan material". They prefered anime and Japanese media that strayed more in that "moe" direction, or had a generally flashier and overexaggerated vibe, like what Gainax and Trigger are known for.
One thing I've determined is that Ghibli films aren't as ADHD-friendly as a lot of other media that's grown popular online during that timespan. One constant I've seen amongst groups like KF and even Soyjak.party is a resentment toward media they deem "autistic." I feel one of the defining factors of said media is a need to stimulate the viewer at all times through bright colors, smooth animation, etc. If you watch a Max0r video, for example, you'll know what I mean. That esoteric, almost schizo need to have heavy amounts of flash, sound effects, "memery", fast-moving images, etc.
Ghibli films don't quite do that, instead leaving room for the story to "breathe" through atmospheric shots between scenes, or long stretches between dialogue. It kinda feels like Ghibli gives off the vibe of being the "anime for people who don't like anime." So many people still have this idea stuck in their heads that anime is "Tranime", with a heavy emphasis on kawaii moe girls, upskirt shots, tentacle hentai, degenerate stuff like that. Ghibli doesn't really subscribe to those ideals. If anything, Miyazaki hates that style of anime with a burning passion, hence the "Anime was a mistake" meme.
Another thing worth noting is that Miyazaki is a feminist. Given how he goes out of his way to portray female protagonists in a positive light, and coming-of-age stories for them being a common theme in his works, it was only natural that Tumblr would latch onto his works in the same way they got attached to Whedon's.
I feel like I'm onto something here, but I dunno if I can fully put it into words. You get where I'm coming from, right?
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- Jul 8, 2022
Ghibli isn’t perfect, but it’s like the last man standing in terms of motion picture entertainment that isn’t trash by design. Try to think of anything significant that’s come out in decades that wasn’t shot for ADHD attention spans, reliant upon homages/pop culture references/memes, or deconstructing a fundamental convention of storytelling to either be clever or socially aware. Modern ideas about movie making are bad.
Some films made between 1990-today are likable, but they all feel a bit crass, like some key element of dignity is missing.
Studio Ghibli movies might be the only high profile exception. You can watch a Ghibli movie without feeling like your intellect has been insulted. Watch Siskel and Ebert clips on YouTube—the 1970s and 80s were still full of movies trying to be something like that. The cynicism of the 90s brought an end to that, in no small part due to the coronation of Quentin Tarantino and various other machinations of the Weinstein brothers and their studio, Miramax.
lol ironically there’s a famous story about how Ghibli dealt with Miramax:
BY ZACK SHARF
JUNE 9, 2020 10:31 AM
Harvey Weinstein was notorious for cutting films behind his directors’ backs, but one filmmaker Weinstein apparently couldn’t touch was Hayao Miyazaki. Disney made a deal in 1996 with Miyazaki’s animation powerhouse Studio Ghibli to release English-language dubs of its films in the United States, and Weinstein’s Disney subsidiary Miramax was tasked with the release of Miyazaki’s “Princess Mononoke.” Weinstein’s reputation preceded him so strongly that Miyazaki’s producer sent the studio executive a samurai sword with a note that read “No cuts” attached to the blade. It turns out the warning wasn’t enough to prevent a Weinstein attack.
In his upcoming memoir “Sharing a House with the Never-Ending Man: 15 Years at Studio Ghibli” former Studio Ghibli executive Steve Alpert reveals that Weinstein went berserk on him when Miyazaki refused to listen to Weinstein’s request to cut the “Princess Mononoke” runtime from 135 minutes to 90 minutes. Alpert writes that Weinstein flew into a rage and threatened him by saying, “If you don’t get [Miyazaki] to cut the fucking film you will never work in this fucking industry again! Do you fucking understand me? Never!”
Miyazaki retained final cut privileges over his movies as part of the Disney-Ghibli deal, so Weinstein could not be his usual “Harvey Scissorhands” self and cut “Princess Mononoke” on his own accord. The filmmaker told The Guardian in 2010 that Weinstein “bombarded” him with “aggressive attacks” to cut the film. Miyazaki added, “I defeated him.” Alpert’s book is the first time it’s been reported that Weinstein also attacked other Ghibli executives over the “Mononoke” runtime. Alpert ran Ghibli’s international division between 1996 and 2011.
Ghibli was adamant about Disney not making changes to its films for their U.S. releases. The one time such changes were made was with the release of Miyazaki’s “Kiki’s Delivery Service.” Alpert writes in the book that Disney added music and sound effects to the U.S. theatrical release, and when he notified a Disney executive about these add-ons the executive went to the producer in charge of the U.S. release and gave him “the kind of verbal lashing that makes grown men cry.” In other words, don’t touch Miyazaki’s movies.
Miyazaki is currently at work on his next feature film. Weinstein is serving a 23-year prison sentence for rape and sexual assault. lol. Alpert’s memoir “Sharing a House with the Never-Ending Man: 15 Years at Studio Ghibli” is now available for preorder and will be released June 16 through Stone Bridge Press.
Some films made between 1990-today are likable, but they all feel a bit crass, like some key element of dignity is missing.
Studio Ghibli movies might be the only high profile exception. You can watch a Ghibli movie without feeling like your intellect has been insulted. Watch Siskel and Ebert clips on YouTube—the 1970s and 80s were still full of movies trying to be something like that. The cynicism of the 90s brought an end to that, in no small part due to the coronation of Quentin Tarantino and various other machinations of the Weinstein brothers and their studio, Miramax.
lol ironically there’s a famous story about how Ghibli dealt with Miramax:
Studio Ghibli Refused to Cut ‘Princess Mononoke’ After Vicious Harvey Weinstein Threat
Nobody tells Hayao Miyazaki to make cuts.BY ZACK SHARF
JUNE 9, 2020 10:31 AM
Harvey Weinstein was notorious for cutting films behind his directors’ backs, but one filmmaker Weinstein apparently couldn’t touch was Hayao Miyazaki. Disney made a deal in 1996 with Miyazaki’s animation powerhouse Studio Ghibli to release English-language dubs of its films in the United States, and Weinstein’s Disney subsidiary Miramax was tasked with the release of Miyazaki’s “Princess Mononoke.” Weinstein’s reputation preceded him so strongly that Miyazaki’s producer sent the studio executive a samurai sword with a note that read “No cuts” attached to the blade. It turns out the warning wasn’t enough to prevent a Weinstein attack.
In his upcoming memoir “Sharing a House with the Never-Ending Man: 15 Years at Studio Ghibli” former Studio Ghibli executive Steve Alpert reveals that Weinstein went berserk on him when Miyazaki refused to listen to Weinstein’s request to cut the “Princess Mononoke” runtime from 135 minutes to 90 minutes. Alpert writes that Weinstein flew into a rage and threatened him by saying, “If you don’t get [Miyazaki] to cut the fucking film you will never work in this fucking industry again! Do you fucking understand me? Never!”
Miyazaki retained final cut privileges over his movies as part of the Disney-Ghibli deal, so Weinstein could not be his usual “Harvey Scissorhands” self and cut “Princess Mononoke” on his own accord. The filmmaker told The Guardian in 2010 that Weinstein “bombarded” him with “aggressive attacks” to cut the film. Miyazaki added, “I defeated him.” Alpert’s book is the first time it’s been reported that Weinstein also attacked other Ghibli executives over the “Mononoke” runtime. Alpert ran Ghibli’s international division between 1996 and 2011.
Ghibli was adamant about Disney not making changes to its films for their U.S. releases. The one time such changes were made was with the release of Miyazaki’s “Kiki’s Delivery Service.” Alpert writes in the book that Disney added music and sound effects to the U.S. theatrical release, and when he notified a Disney executive about these add-ons the executive went to the producer in charge of the U.S. release and gave him “the kind of verbal lashing that makes grown men cry.” In other words, don’t touch Miyazaki’s movies.
Miyazaki is currently at work on his next feature film. Weinstein is serving a 23-year prison sentence for rape and sexual assault. lol. Alpert’s memoir “Sharing a House with the Never-Ending Man: 15 Years at Studio Ghibli” is now available for preorder and will be released June 16 through Stone Bridge Press.
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- Sep 26, 2023
Very agree. Miyazaki has this perceived notion that he is superior at... something... "Appreciating life for what it is," I guess? Boy and the Heron had a whole jumbled up story and "message," I left the theater bewildered. I felt a lot of anger and bitterness attempting to portray itself as wholesome and full of wisdom from Miyazaki.
I don't know if this is true, but ppl say he starts animating before the writing is even finished. I got that feeling with Arietty and The Boy and the Heron. They are amazing for the first 30 minutes, but then they slowly fall apart. Then the entire story deflates or totally wacky shit happens in the last 10 minutes until BOOM credits. Really annoying.
KMFDM Sucks
kiwifarms.net
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That's something that I do appreciate about Ghibli, is its ability to slow down and rest. I saw Arietty in theaters with my family when it first came out, and it was so tranquil that my dad fell asleep in the theater.
I'm so tired of movies preemptively defending themselves from the Internet posts that only half understand the movie in bad faith. I blame the Tumblr/Reddit posts about Belle having Stockholm Syndrome. The self-awareness and, dare I say, "trauma response" of movies to the Internet's criticism just ruins storytelling.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
Ghibli only got popular because Satoshi Kon's films aren't for a general audience lmao.
Serious answer, Ghibli is the best and more user-friendly way to introduce Westerners to the Japanese way of storytelling and pacing. Even when they adapt Western books they still have a unique Japanese twist to them that you just don't get elsewhere. Your brain picks up on that weirdness when you're watching the English dubs, but you really get a feel for it when you actually put in the effort to put on the subs and do further study into the language. A lot of that pacing (and comedy, especially) relies on wordplay, and hearing the reverence a character will have when speaking about nature spirits, of which there's quite a bit.
Also for years only Miyazaki's films would actually get attention, which left Isao Takahata's and others in obscurity that only the "diehard" fans would go for. Also Takahata's films were very Japanese-oriented in comparison to Miyazaki's, but the stories are much more unique as a result. Anyone who claims they're a Ghibli fan but hasn't actually watched something like Pom Poko or My Neighbors the Yamadas or even Whisper of the Heart and Arriety are posers and they need to be immediately exposed to those films to rectify that. I will even accept The Cat Returns and Ocean Waves. Not even joking.
Serious answer, Ghibli is the best and more user-friendly way to introduce Westerners to the Japanese way of storytelling and pacing. Even when they adapt Western books they still have a unique Japanese twist to them that you just don't get elsewhere. Your brain picks up on that weirdness when you're watching the English dubs, but you really get a feel for it when you actually put in the effort to put on the subs and do further study into the language. A lot of that pacing (and comedy, especially) relies on wordplay, and hearing the reverence a character will have when speaking about nature spirits, of which there's quite a bit.
Also for years only Miyazaki's films would actually get attention, which left Isao Takahata's and others in obscurity that only the "diehard" fans would go for. Also Takahata's films were very Japanese-oriented in comparison to Miyazaki's, but the stories are much more unique as a result. Anyone who claims they're a Ghibli fan but hasn't actually watched something like Pom Poko or My Neighbors the Yamadas or even Whisper of the Heart and Arriety are posers and they need to be immediately exposed to those films to rectify that. I will even accept The Cat Returns and Ocean Waves. Not even joking.