Culture China’s Combative Nationalists See a World Turning Their Way

In one Beijing artist’s recent depiction of the world in 2098, China is a high-tech superpower and the United States is humbled. Americans have embraced communism and Manhattan, draped with the hammer-and-sickle flags of the “People’s Union of America,” has become a quaint tourist precinct.

This triumphant vision has resonated among Chinese.

The sci-fi digital illustrations by the artist, Fan Wennan, caught fire on Chinese social media in recent months, reflecting a resurgent nationalism. China’s authoritarian system, proponents say, is not just different from the West’s democracies, it is also proving itself superior. It is a long-running theme, but China’s success against the pandemic has given it a sharp boost.

“America isn’t that heavenly kingdom depicted since decades ago,” said Mr. Fan, who is in his early twenties. “There’s nothing special about it. If you have to say there’s anything special about it now, it’s how messed up it can be at times.”

China’s Communist Party, under its leader, Xi Jinping, has promoted the idea that the country is on a trajectory to power past Western rivals.

China stamped out the coronavirus, the messaging goes, with a resolve beyond the reach of flailing Western democracies. Beijing has rolled out homegrown vaccines to more than a million people, despite the safety concerns of scientists. China’s economy has revived, defying fears of a deep slump from the pandemic.

“In this fight against the pandemic, there will be victorious powers and defeated ones,” Wang Xiangsui, a retired Chinese senior colonel who teaches at a university in Beijing, averred this month. “We’re a victor power, while the United States is still mired and, I think, may well become a defeated power.”

The firm leadership of Mr. Xi and the party has earned China its recent success, say newspapers, television programs and social media.

“Time to wake up from blind faith in the Western system,” said a commentary in the state-run China Education News last week. “Vicious partisan fighting has worsened in certain Western countries, social fissures have deepened, and a severe social crisis is brewing.”

The theme of China as triumphantly vindicated against critics also has real public appeal these days, including among the youth, as reflected in a stream of online commentary and the work of artists like Mr. Fan, who has described his style as “People’s Punk.” In Mr. Fan’s depiction of communist Manhattan, displayed on the ArtStation website, a caption describes a tour guide as saying that Asia and Europe are where the future is.

“To take in the changes of history and feel the afterglow of the imperialist era,” the guide says, “head to North America.”

China’s current swaggering mood could add to the challenges facing Joseph R. Biden Jr. when he takes office as president. President Trump’s defeat in the election has done little to ease Chinese suspicion of the United States, said Liu Jianqiu, a businessman and online commentator, in a telephone interview.

“I think China has gained the psychological edge,” said Mr. Liu, in his 40s, who described the pandemic as a turning point in his attitudes. “The performance of the West was completely out of my expectations and shifted my thinking even more — the facts prove that the American system really has no superiority.”

Combative national pride surged in China in the run-up to the Beijing Olympics in 2008, and after the United States bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999. Now there is a sharper sense that the Western powers are in perhaps irreversible decline, and that the pandemic has confirmed China’s ascent.

“Most ordinary Chinese people previously were more admiring of the United States, but in recent years, the advantages of the Chinese system have become clearer to them,” said Jin Canrong, an international relations professor at Renmin University in Beijing who has become a popular commentator under the nickname “Commissar Jin.” “There’s greater self-confidence.”

China’s diplomats and its state-run media have responded to criticism from Western governments with scornful disdain. Chinese supporters of a more muscular foreign policy call for hitting back against Western critics, especially in the wake of the pandemic.

Le Yucheng, a Chinese vice minister of foreign affairs, said in a speech last week that China was not spoiling for fights, but he also warned other governments not to underestimate its resolve to push back against criticism.

“Faced with this suppression and containment without scruples,” Mr. Le said, “we’ll never swallow our pride or stoop to compromise.”

Critics worry that hubris could lead China to overestimate its strengths and misjudge how far it can push the United States and other Western countries.

“These ideas aren’t sealed off in the halls of Zhongnanhai,” the Communist Party leaders’ headquarters in Beijing, said Julian Gewirtz, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who has written about Chinese perceptions of American decline.

“Their triumphalism is shaping both popular nationalism and official diplomacy,” he wrote in an email. “It is fueling ever-sharper demands for deference to China’s wishes.”

Online, Chinese commentators have plumbed the depths of history to capture the current moment. Some likened the United States to the crumbling British Empire of the last century, overstretched and exhausted.

Others are reaching back further, comparing America to China’s own Ming dynasty, which crumbled in the 1600s under the weight of corruption, insurrections and invasions. In this view that spread online this year, China should take the role of the “barbarian” Manchu armies who — in the commentators’ vivid, not-always-accurate retelling — swept over the Asian steppes, breached the Great Wall, and crushed the Ming rulers.

Modern-day China must act like the Manchu forces, advocates of the analogy say, and prepare to “break through” a ring of geopolitical hostility by dominating vital seas around China.

Geremie R. Barmé, a Sinologist in New Zealand who has followed the rise of “break-through studies” — rùguānxué in Chinese — says the historical comparisons reflect anxiety “about China’s great nation status and its place in the world.”

“The underpinning is that China is morally superior — we the Chinese people under the Communist Party — because we have none of the failings of America,” he said.

China’s leader, Mr. Xi, has not commented on the recent pronouncements of American decline. But he sees China and the United States as locked in ideological rivalry. Since coming to power in 2012, he has called for Chinese schools, textbooks and websites to inoculate youth against Western values that could erode party rule and the country’s “cultural self-confidence.”

“Our schooling must never nurture wreckers or gravediggers of socialism,” Mr. Xi said in a speech in 2018 that was recently published in a book of his comments on ideology.

Some warn that China risks underestimating the strengths of the United States. In recent months, Chinese scholars have debated how Beijing should handle the post-Covid world, with a good number urging restraint as the best way to win lasting influence.

“China’s high-volume nationalism at home is making the United States feel that China is getting aggressive,” Xiao Gongqin, a historian in Shanghai wrote in an essay that was published last month, prompting wide discussion.

The United States is far from the only country feeling the lash of official and public anger from China. Australia has drawn China’s ire for criticizing Beijing, initiating laws aimed at reducing Chinese government influence-building efforts in Australia, and urging an investigation into the origin of the pandemic — a touchy subject in Beijing.

Last month, a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman tweeted a Chinese artist’s fabricated image of an Australian soldier poised to slit the throat of an Afghan child. Australia’s prime minister, Scott Morrison, demanded an apology from China over the image, which was a reference to an inquiry by the Australian military that found that its troops had unlawfully killed more than three dozen Afghan civilians.

The Chinese foreign ministry scoffed at Mr. Morrison’s demand, and the artist who created the image, Fu Yu, created another one mocking the Australian leader. Mr. Fu, who works under the name Wuhe Qilin, had made a reputation with his scathing images of the United States as a blood-soaked, irrational medieval realm.

“Chinese values and American values are totally at odds,” Mr. Fu said late last month on a Chinese online talk show broadcast last week. “These values are in fundamental conflict.”

Amber Wang contributed research.

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How do I rate China optimistic?

If China was half as good as the CCP claims, they would be able to admit their faults and discuss them in public. And did they forget that they share their region with India? America and its continues development and prosperity are the least of China's problems... especially when we keep them from starving.
Don't you know? If you hide your problems, they don't exist. Reality is in the mind! /sneed
 
How do I rate China optimistic?

If China was half as good as the CCP claims, they would be able to admit their faults and discuss them in public. And did they forget that they share their region with India? America and its continues development and prosperity are the least of China's problems... especially when we keep them from starving.

And if and when the Three Gorges dam collapse, all bets are off.
 
Which is pretty funny because the US really wasn't part of that and was very vocal at the time about not having colonial ambitions in China and promoted the Open Door Policy to keep the major world powers from dividing it up like they did with Africa. The only spat we had is because the Boxers tried to kill every westerner in the country and our people got trapped in the Legation Quarter.
If we had let the rest of the world carve China up like a Thanksgiving turkey, at least we would have been spared CCP bloviation and grandstanding, plus zero risk of being sidelined by a bunch of overly aggro and overly ambitious slants.
 
I don't think they looked too close at the pictures. Apart from the "lol usa commies now" one, the rest are about draining the oceans for some reason. Even the conquered US one mentiones a lecture about how the "maritime world" was a mistake. Not exactly an environmentally friendly message, is it?
 
They're certainly on track now but it is their chance to lose; Beijing is going to need to make sure they keep hyper-nationalists from pissing off countries like Japan too quickly so they can keep slowly building trade relations with them and push the US out of Asia once the US inevitably has something stupid domestically happen. If they get too cocky I easily can see them robbing themselves of their chance here.
 
They're certainly on track now but it is their chance to lose; Beijing is going to need to make sure they keep hyper-nationalists from pissing off countries like Japan too quickly so they can keep slowly building trade relations with them and push the US out of Asia once the US inevitably has something stupid domestically happen. If they get too cocky I easily can see them robbing themselves of their chance here.
Lots of ways China can implode within sight of the finish line:
  • Three Gorges finally falls apart
  • PLAN gets a bit too fresh with USN and finally gets slapped
  • Supercharged economy finally runs out of gas
  • India pulls off an upset victory after PLA gets too frisky
  • Internal party strife spills over and China falls apart from within
  • China's demographic timebomb finally detonates
Just throwing some shit out there.
 
Chinese nationalists have always been that way though. Overall imo China being a threat militarily to the US -ie hard power- is way over exaggerated by US warhawks. China’s military isn’t positioned to be offensive and to be honest China has historically dealt with invasions from the north or east. So defense is and should be their primary concern. They already have a ton of territory and people to govern, it’d be hard to expand more than they already have. However imo they have to be aggressive right now since there will be a sharp decline in their military capabilities.

I do think they have had a lot of soft power but imo that is faltering as their population, therefore their production and economy greys. One of their greatest assets has been large multinational corporations wanting to please them. Imo as it’s become less profitable to work in China -in part due to the shrinking populace but also thanks to ip thefts and pressure from US nationalists -it has also negatively impacted their soft power.


Lots of ways China can implode within sight of the finish line:
  • Three Gorges finally falls apart
If three gorges dam breaks... it’ll be the greatest disaster in human history. I hope that doesn’t happen, the loss of human life would be immense. We would also likely lose some kiwis. We’d also likely know people who lost someone...

  • PLAN gets a bit too fresh with USN and finally gets slapped
  • Supercharged economy finally runs out of gas
  • India pulls off an upset victory after PLA gets too frisky
  • Internal party strife spills over and China falls apart from within
  • China's demographic timebomb finally detonates
Just throwing some shit out there.
I know it’s a meme but I do think India is better positioned for the long game. I’d argue that India is better placed than China or Russia because so much of the worlds digital services are dependent on India. As the world becomes more digital, it’ll therefore increase India’s bargaining power with the US and multinational corporations. They’d also be better positioned to damage digital infrastructure if they had to. India also has less enemies than China and is on good terms with Russia and decent terms with the US. The Chinese nationalists are a bit of a liability in that they tend to make unnecessary enemies (I’d argue that’s the case with any country’s nationalists). I’d also argue that India has significant diplomatic and cultural inroads with any former British colony. So it gives them an edge diplomatically on the world stage.

Imo India is a greater long term threat to China than the US due to the border dispute, their proximity, and the fact that India will surpass them in terms of population. They’re also younger demographically too so it can be argued that the Indians already have a more disposable population. Short term China has an edge imo and it makes sense for them to be aggressive now and to see how far they can push the line back so to speak before having to be on the defensive.

Binkov makes interesting what if videos and I generally agree with his points. He’s not infallible or the end all be all but this video goes over why China currently has a slight military edge over India.

 
Chinese nationalists have always been that way though. Overall imo China being a threat militarily to the US -ie hard power- is way over exaggerated by US warhawks. China’s military isn’t positioned to be offensive and to be honest China has historically dealt with invasions from the north or east. So defense is and should be their primary concern. They already have a ton of territory and people to govern, it’d be hard to expand more than they already have. However imo they have to be aggressive right now since there will be a sharp decline in their military capabilities.

I do think they have had a lot of soft power but imo that is faltering as their population, therefore their production and economy greys. One of their greatest assets has been large multinational corporations wanting to please them. Imo as it’s become less profitable to work in China -in part due to the shrinking populace but also thanks to ip thefts and pressure from US nationalists -it has also negatively impacted their soft power.



If three gorges dam breaks... it’ll be the greatest disaster in human history. I hope that doesn’t happen, the loss of human life would be immense. We would also likely lose some kiwis. We’d also likely know people who lost someone...


I know it’s a meme but I do think India is better positioned for the long game. I’d argue that India is better placed than China or Russia because so much of the worlds digital services are dependent on India. As the world becomes more digital, it’ll therefore increase India’s bargaining power with the US and multinational corporations. They’d also be better positioned to damage digital infrastructure if they had to. India also has less enemies than China and is on good terms with Russia and decent terms with the US. The Chinese nationalists are a bit of a liability in that they tend to make unnecessary enemies (I’d argue that’s the case with any country’s nationalists). I’d also argue that India has significant diplomatic and cultural inroads with any former British colony. So it gives them an edge diplomatically on the world stage.

Imo India is a greater long term threat to China than the US due to the border dispute, their proximity, and the fact that India will surpass them in terms of population. They’re also younger demographically too so it can be argued that the Indians already have a more disposable population. Short term China has an edge imo and it makes sense for them to be aggressive now and to see how far they can push the line back so to speak before having to be on the defensive.

Binkov makes interesting what if videos and I generally agree with his points. He’s not infallible or the end all be all but this video goes over why China currently has a slight military edge over India.

Based Slav puppet speaks the truth.
 
They're certainly on track now but it is their chance to lose; Beijing is going to need to make sure they keep hyper-nationalists from pissing off countries like Japan too quickly so they can keep slowly building trade relations with them and push the US out of Asia once the US inevitably has something stupid domestically happen. If they get too cocky I easily can see them robbing themselves of their chance here.

The day Japan kowtows to China is the day hell freezes over.

I'd love to see the Vietnamese though give the chinks another bloody nose though.

--------

I like the literal bugman art being hyped up. (Doing links since these images are huge)

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/027/422/287/4k/fan-wennan-1.jpg?1591495247

I just love that gross ass fucking landbridge (Apparently it's a levee to control global warming related sea rise) connecting China to Japan by way's of Taiwan. Also nice job of destroying the beautiful coast of the sea of Japan side of Japan chinks. According to google translate that infill land is full of refugees!

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/28l9wa

Love the complete lack of greenery in the future Chinese hive. How come these future renditions never look like nice, lush, clean & green Star Trek:TNG cities? No pleasing future architecture and greenbelts for us! We all get to live in the bugman hive hell.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/bKXlem

Nothing gets the bugman more excited than literally carving giant crevasses of the Earth to rape it's riches.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/28l9Ra

More chinkoid masturbation. I'd rather die free blasting reds than live on my knees in some Red Chinese puppet state.


maxresdefault (11).jpg



Here's the artist himself. With a pathetic pubestache like that I'm sure Mr. Fan here cries every night into his pillow for his dream CCP provided girlfriend. Also that's a face that never sees nature on the reg.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Trapitalism
Pretty boring scifi art to be honest. This is what gets the Chinese excited?

I know it’s a meme but I do think India is better positioned for the long game. I’d argue that India is better placed than China or Russia because so much of the worlds digital services are dependent on India.
I do think India is more likely to succeed long term but not because of their digital services. It's another meme but I really think outsourced shit to India causes more trouble than it saves money.

Surely everyone has an experience with a call centre getting shit wrong and you have to waste another 1-2 hours getting through to Western based support to fix both the original problem and the additional problem the Indian guy caused. Their coding ability isn't any better.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: IAmNotAlpharius
Pretty boring scifi art to be honest. This is what gets the Chinese excited?


I do think India is more likely to succeed long term but not because of their digital services. It's another meme but I really think outsourced shit to India causes more trouble than it saves money.

Surely everyone has an experience with a call centre getting shit wrong and you have to waste another 1-2 hours getting through to Western based support to fix both the original problem and the additional problem the Indian guy caused. Their coding ability isn't any better.
I was thinking more with issues caused with internal tickets, site maintenance, etc., moreso than customer service per say. A lot of code over there is janky but the large corporations are getting what they pay for... and customer service from there can be frustrating, especially when they’re not trained, paid, and just read from scripts.

*edit*
It wouldn’t apply to every company but some companies can lose tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per minute when their lines or websites are down. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the Indians taking the call, the issue as I see is that a lot of companies use India for their internal tech support and as account managers, so they could potentially use that as a way to get billing info, disrupt things, say like have someone delete accounts en masse, etc. Like I think it’s a good card and it’s value will only increase with time but they’d have to be careful with how they use it and not overplay it. However, I think you’re right that it’s not the reason they’d be a major power. They have more stable demographics than China imo and more importantly they’ve been better diplomatically: They’re on decent terms with the US and Russia and have inroads with most former British colonies - the major exception being Pakistan of course.
 
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China is a nationalist nation that openly acts in its own interests
America is a globalist nation that sees the world's interests as its own interests
China coming up on top of the US isn't surprising.
Another 4 years of Trumpanomics would have completely fucked over the CCP. Instead, Orange Man Bad, so China gets to fuck us.
 
China lacks one very crucial thing to even begin to claim global dominance: culture

Can anyone name a modern Chinese cultural product that is distinctly modern Chinese? Anything that is popular has its roots in millennia old traditions and mythology.

In comparison, everyone in the world knows about American cultural products: Star Wars, Star Trek, Simpsons, American football, basketball (which China adores), baseball, Sinatra, Elvis Presley, McDonalds, Call of Duty, Halo, Superman, etc

China doesn't have a modern culture that it can export, that has messages that can cross borders. The only thing that China has going for it is low labor costs and an insanely wealthy upper class. I don't even think that's enough to gain victory in a Civilization game, let alone the real world.
 
China lacks one very crucial thing to even begin to claim global dominance: culture

Can anyone name a modern Chinese cultural product that is distinctly modern Chinese? Anything that is popular has its roots in millennia old traditions and mythology.

In comparison, everyone in the world knows about American cultural products: Star Wars, Star Trek, Simpsons, American football, basketball (which China adores), baseball, Sinatra, Elvis Presley, McDonalds, Call of Duty, Halo, Superman, etc

China doesn't have a modern culture that it can export, that has messages that can cross borders. The only thing that China has going for it is low labor costs and an insanely wealthy upper class. I don't even think that's enough to gain victory in a Civilization game, let alone the real world.
Why do you think they bought Hollywood?
 
China lacks one very crucial thing to even begin to claim global dominance: culture

Can anyone name a modern Chinese cultural product that is distinctly modern Chinese? Anything that is popular has its roots in millennia old traditions and mythology.

In comparison, everyone in the world knows about American cultural products: Star Wars, Star Trek, Simpsons, American football, basketball (which China adores), baseball, Sinatra, Elvis Presley, McDonalds, Call of Duty, Halo, Superman, etc
That's.... not a bad thing; They're starting to make tentative video games, for example, that are about some of their mythology which could blow up in the next few years. There is a giant untapped market there.

On the flipside, your examples for the west have all completely stagnated. Oh boy, I can't wait for the 10th version of the same media because creativity has died and no one can make any new IP on the same level of Halo.
 
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