Chris and gender issues

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Burning Love

Burning Love

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
I apologize if this has been discussed in any length, but phpBB's search doesn't want to work with my browser, so...

I lurked through probably 150 pages yesterday before registering, both then and today I've seen numerous references to Marvin thinking Chris has serious gender issues. I would like to hear his take on what those gender issues may be, and anyone else who wants to hypothesize at length.

It seems like people usually point out that he's thought out at length the whole sex change thing and that's something average males (even queer ones of various stripes) don't do. Then there's some stuff about him looking uncomfortable around women, like he would rather be them than be around them... and no doubt the list goes on and on. By the time I found out about the dude's life, he was already well into the Tomgirl phase, and the main thought I have about it is that I can't imagine the field day anti-transgender organizations would have with someone like Chris going into women's restrooms.

Well, if a lock isn't imminent, let's hear some ideas.
 
I think all the relevant info about this isn't public yet. All we know for the moment is yes, it goes deeper than Tomgirl.
 
An objective, sensitive, and yet toned down dramatisation of Chris's current gender identity

[youtube]W-ac87-6n3I[/youtube]
 
FYI, gender issues don't really relate to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation and gender identity are totally different things.

Chris could just be a gay guy that doesn't want to be a gay guy, so he's taken what he's seen of transgenderism and applied it in typical OPL manner (barely). Basically inventing his own gender identity in order to not be seen as gay, without really being trans. Or he could be ultra-mega-super trans and really fucking repressed. I haven't seen enough of him to know which. But it's almost certain he's into men, and maybe not really women at all.
 
Buffalo Bill is literally the best fictional parallel to use in articulating Chris's relationship to gender. He's not genuinely transgender, I don't think. It just seems like a natural reaction to the masculine role he was born into, considering his extreme, unhealthy attachment to his mother, his rejection of other males and his lack of intelligence/understanding of social norms.

He might WANT to be a lesbian, but he doesn't really identify as female, it seems. He just imagines his chances with women would be better that way.
 
Burning Love said:
FYI, gender issues don't really relate to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation and gender identity are totally different things.

Chris could just be a gay guy that doesn't want to be a gay guy, so he's taken what he's seen of transgenderism and applied it in typical OPL manner (barely). Basically inventing his own gender identity in order to not be seen as gay, without really being trans. Or he could be ultra-mega-super trans and really fucking repressed. I haven't seen enough of him to know which. But it's almost certain he's into men, and maybe not really women at all.
Click to expand...

Or maybe he just doesn't understand sexuality at all, maybe hes not really into neither men nor women, but since he's homophobic, he wants to prove to everybody that HE'S STRAIGHT!!!
 
Buffalo Bill is literally the best fictional parallel to use in articulating Chris's relationship to gender. He's not genuinely transgender, I don't think. It just seems like a natural reaction to the masculine role he was born into, considering his extreme, unhealthy attachment to his mother, his rejection of other males and his lack of intelligence/understanding of social norms.

He might WANT to be a lesbian, but he doesn't really identify as female, it seems. He just imagines his chances with women would be better that way.
Click to expand...
I was about to say something like what you said. The Buffalo Bill comparison is pretty solid. I know that no matter what, trans or not, he has no idea what he's getting himself into. He thinks it's tough being him now, he has no idea.

Or maybe he just doesn't understand sexuality at all, maybe hes not really into neither men nor women, but since he's homophobic, he wants to prove to everybody that HE'S STRAIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
Well, he didn't seem to have much of an interest in anybody during high school and didn't figure things out about himself until near the end of it. That might be the case. Flipside: the voices in his head saying "Chris is gay."
 
I realize there is a distinction between a person's gender (what physical sex they feel fits them) and a person's sexuality (what type of sexual partner they prefer). I recognize this distinction, but for this post I will not strictly adhere to it, for the simple reason that I don't think Chris is aware of the distinction, and I don't wish to over-analyze his situation.

Chris doesn't really understand gender roles. This is different from saying that he feels uncomfortable in his own body... quite simply, Chris doesn't know how he should feel, so he is attempting to create his own gender role. Not surprisingly, his "Tomgirl" idea combines the benefits of being a woman (expect mates to initiate contact, access to lesbians) with the benefits of being a man (overt sexuality), and involved the responsibilities of neither (failing at both male and female hygiene, unable to work outside or inside the home). In essence, Chris wants to be a pretty little thing that has a hypothetical girlfriend look out for him, all the while he can still say he's an internet big shot. It's an extension of his Love Quest... Chris expects to hit the romantic partner jackpot, while bringing nothing to the table himself. The only difference is, now he's actually manifested this attitude in visual form.

This is distinct from Chris's lingering homosexual feelings. Chris is not gay. However, just like he doesn't understand gender roles, he also doesn't understand sexuality, and doesn't comprehend how even perfectly straight people might occasionally have a thought or two. Chris is unable to process thoughts about men constructively, so in turn he overcompensates. I think Chris has some bi-curious tendencies, which would amount to very little if he could enter into meaningful friendships with both men and women. Since he refuses to bond with men, and women avoid him like the plague, Chris feels bad about thinking of schlongs.

In both cases, Chris is a major example of arrested development. His gender identity is stuck in his tween years, and his sexual maturity is only a little more advanced than that. Chris knows he wants sex, but he has no idea how it concerns his potential partner or what he should expect to provide in return. He has no concept of other people engaging in sex for reasons beyond "masturbation with assistance".
 
ChurchOfGodBear said:
I realize there is a distinction between a person's gender (what physical sex they feel fits them) and a person's sexuality (what type of sexual partner they prefer). I recognize this distinction, but for this post I will not strictly adhere to it, for the simple reason that I don't think Chris is aware of the distinction, and I don't wish to over-analyze his situation.

Chris doesn't really understand gender roles. This is different from saying that he feels uncomfortable in his own body... quite simply, Chris doesn't know how he should feel, so he is attempting to create his own gender role. Not surprisingly, his "Tomgirl" idea combines the benefits of being a woman (expect mates to initiate contact, access to lesbians) with the benefits of being a man (overt sexuality), and involved the responsibilities of neither (failing at both male and female hygiene, unable to work outside or inside the home). In essence, Chris wants to be a pretty little thing that has a hypothetical girlfriend look out for him, all the while he can still say he's an internet big shot. It's an extension of his Love Quest... Chris expects to hit the romantic partner jackpot, while bringing nothing to the table himself. The only difference is, now he's actually manifested this attitude in visual form.

This is distinct from Chris's lingering homosexual feelings. Chris is not gay. However, just like he doesn't understand gender roles, he also doesn't understand sexuality, and doesn't comprehend how even perfectly straight people might occasionally have a thought or two. Chris is unable to process thoughts about men constructively, so in turn he overcompensates. I think Chris has some bi-curious tendencies, which would amount to very little if he could enter into meaningful friendships with both men and women. Since he refuses to bond with men, and women avoid him like the plague, Chris feels bad about thinking of schlongs.

In both cases, Chris is a major example of arrested development. His gender identity is stuck in his tween years, and his sexual maturity is only a little more advanced than that. Chris knows he wants sex, but he has no idea how it concerns his potential partner or what he should expect to provide in return. He has no concept of other people engaging in sex for reasons beyond "masturbation with assistance".
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it...
 
ChurchOfGodBear said:
I realize there is a distinction between a person's gender (what physical sex they feel fits them) and a person's sexuality (what type of sexual partner they prefer). I recognize this distinction, but for this post I will not strictly adhere to it, for the simple reason that I don't think Chris is aware of the distinction, and I don't wish to over-analyze his situation.

Chris doesn't really understand gender roles. This is different from saying that he feels uncomfortable in his own body... quite simply, Chris doesn't know how he should feel, so he is attempting to create his own gender role. Not surprisingly, his "Tomgirl" idea combines the benefits of being a woman (expect mates to initiate contact, access to lesbians) with the benefits of being a man (overt sexuality), and involved the responsibilities of neither (failing at both male and female hygiene, unable to work outside or inside the home). In essence, Chris wants to be a pretty little thing that has a hypothetical girlfriend look out for him, all the while he can still say he's an internet big shot. It's an extension of his Love Quest... Chris expects to hit the romantic partner jackpot, while bringing nothing to the table himself. The only difference is, now he's actually manifested this attitude in visual form.

This is distinct from Chris's lingering homosexual feelings. Chris is not gay. However, just like he doesn't understand gender roles, he also doesn't understand sexuality, and doesn't comprehend how even perfectly straight people might occasionally have a thought or two. Chris is unable to process thoughts about men constructively, so in turn he overcompensates. I think Chris has some bi-curious tendencies, which would amount to very little if he could enter into meaningful friendships with both men and women. Since he refuses to bond with men, and women avoid him like the plague, Chris feels bad about thinking of schlongs.

In both cases, Chris is a major example of arrested development. His gender identity is stuck in his tween years, and his sexual maturity is only a little more advanced than that. Chris knows he wants sex, but he has no idea how it concerns his potential partner or what he should expect to provide in return. He has no concept of other people engaging in sex for reasons beyond "masturbation with assistance".
Click to expand...
I can see all that, yeah. It all sounds reasonable enough. I think it would be a mistake for us to box him in as one thing or another, because right now, he's still severely repressed in all aspects. Like sure, he's done all this wild internet shit, but he was still under Bob and Barb's control, and he's still Barb's pet. I'm interested in seeing how far he takes the Tomgirl thing once Barb kicks it. There will be no more of the repression necessary. He could cause some real shit for himself and others.
 
Burning Love said:
ChurchOfGodBear said:
I realize there is a distinction between a person's gender (what physical sex they feel fits them) and a person's sexuality (what type of sexual partner they prefer). I recognize this distinction, but for this post I will not strictly adhere to it, for the simple reason that I don't think Chris is aware of the distinction, and I don't wish to over-analyze his situation.

Chris doesn't really understand gender roles. This is different from saying that he feels uncomfortable in his own body... quite simply, Chris doesn't know how he should feel, so he is attempting to create his own gender role. Not surprisingly, his "Tomgirl" idea combines the benefits of being a woman (expect mates to initiate contact, access to lesbians) with the benefits of being a man (overt sexuality), and involved the responsibilities of neither (failing at both male and female hygiene, unable to work outside or inside the home). In essence, Chris wants to be a pretty little thing that has a hypothetical girlfriend look out for him, all the while he can still say he's an internet big shot. It's an extension of his Love Quest... Chris expects to hit the romantic partner jackpot, while bringing nothing to the table himself. The only difference is, now he's actually manifested this attitude in visual form.

This is distinct from Chris's lingering homosexual feelings. Chris is not gay. However, just like he doesn't understand gender roles, he also doesn't understand sexuality, and doesn't comprehend how even perfectly straight people might occasionally have a thought or two. Chris is unable to process thoughts about men constructively, so in turn he overcompensates. I think Chris has some bi-curious tendencies, which would amount to very little if he could enter into meaningful friendships with both men and women. Since he refuses to bond with men, and women avoid him like the plague, Chris feels bad about thinking of schlongs.

In both cases, Chris is a major example of arrested development. His gender identity is stuck in his tween years, and his sexual maturity is only a little more advanced than that. Chris knows he wants sex, but he has no idea how it concerns his potential partner or what he should expect to provide in return. He has no concept of other people engaging in sex for reasons beyond "masturbation with assistance".
Click to expand...
I can see all that, yeah. It all sounds reasonable enough. I think it would be a mistake for us to box him in as one thing or another, because right now, he's still severely repressed in all aspects. Like sure, he's done all this wild internet shit, but he was still under Bob and Barb's control, and he's still Barb's pet. I'm interested in seeing how far he takes the Tomgirl thing once Barb kicks it. There will be no more of the repression necessary. He could cause some real shit for himself and others.
Click to expand...

He doesn't understand that some men have gay friends, or gay brothers, or even gay parents, he doesn't understand that men make gay jokes sometimes, he doesn't understand that you can be straight and still care and love those gay persons... he's so terrified of something that he doesn't understands that he becomes paranoid about that, aka homophobia...

And yeah, i'd really like to see how far he takes the tomgirl thing...
 
i wouldn't say he'd take tomgirl very far, he's already become too lazy to bother with it.
 
CatParty said:
i wouldn't say he'd take tomgirl very far, he's already become too lazy to bother with it.
Click to expand...
I think maybe Barb's control has a good bit to do with that...
 
CatParty said:
i wouldn't say he'd take tomgirl very far, he's already become too lazy to bother with it.
Click to expand...

Well, he may not keep it up with his tomgirl thing, but maybe something else can happen because he's still into the "tomgirl mood"...
 
Burning Love said:
CatParty said:
i wouldn't say he'd take tomgirl very far, he's already become too lazy to bother with it.
Click to expand...
I think maybe Barb's control has a good bit to do with that...
Click to expand...

This is pure speculation, but I don't think Barb cares what he wears, so long as he bandages her ass and fetches q-sands. I'm more inclined to think Chris has stopped the Tomgirl thing due to lack of effort. It takes a lot of work to look like an attractive woman, especially if you start out looking like Grandma Addams.

Again, pure speculation, but I wonder if Chris would have more motivation after Barb dies if he starts going out more. Will the possibility of social interaction give him the incentive to :tomgirl: it up again?
 
Dormiebasne said:
considering his extreme, unhealthy attachment to his mother
Click to expand...

Chris would drop Barb like a radioactive scorpion if a sweetheart appeared at his door to whisk him away. He's attached to Barb because she's all he has, and the fact he has no choice.
 
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