Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

[Robertchu]

@Alexander Hamilton, let's just say that Chris is found not guilty of rape, but is guilty of the incest charge. Do most states require sex offender registration for that type of charge? Does it being "consensual" have any diminishing effect on the severity of the sentence that the convicted would get?

 

[Fareal]

Although not active yet, you can add Chris on Vinelink to be notified of changes in custody status. Although not immediate to update, it is quite quick. When he is transferred from Richmond to whatever court will service his charges it will reflect his movement then as well, if he doesn't post bond or receive a recognizance release. They may have a good point to hold him at least until he can be transported or be appointed an attorney though, given his mental state.

The Virginia courts system website has a thorough database of current and historical cases, although it is not likely that Chris' new charges are there yet. They will likely post sometime tomorrow.

Side note- who is going to pick up his car? Unless he is immediately released he will be quite a ways away from it and it will end up towed.

when will we be able to see what the charges are?

 

[Unpleasant]

@Alexander Hamilton, let's just say that Chris is found not guilty of rape, but is guilty of the incest charge. Do most states require sex offender registration for that type of charge? Does it being "consensual" have any diminishing effect on the severity of the sentence that the convicted would get?

If found guilty of incest, that is a registerable offense in VA.

when will we be able to see what the charges are?

Once served, the charges will likely appear on the Richmond VA jail website, although many jails only update their own pages daily. The Virginia court system website will likely be quicker and more exhaustive, although the local court may need to have the serviced documents in hand before docketing the case. I suspect he will be transported fairly quickly if he is not sent to a mental health facility (which is unlikely if he isn't suicidal, a danger to others, or has some extreme medical condition a jail cannot handle).

The jail could also tell you themselves- charges and bail amount are public information in most states. I suspect their phone lines are getting slammed. Chris may be being questioned or in processing.

His local jail will likely be the Albemarle-Charlottesville regional jail unless the Greene county sheriff's office holds inmates.

 

[Mr. Jones]

if i was a defense team lawyer i would blow my mind out in my car after the first day

 

[Snusmumriken]

Well, obviously none of Chris’ confession can’t be introduced in court, since he clearly prefaced it with STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL.

Jokes aside; Mr. Hamilton, thank you for gracing us mere farmers with your expertise. If you have the time I have a couple of questions myself:

-Can we assume interrogations and trial proceedings will be taped/accessible for public viewing?

-Would a member of the jury who knew beforehand about the autism spectacular that is Chris be obligated to recuse themselves?

-What sort of condolence package do we need to put together for the sad sap left in charge of defending Chris?

 

[DiggieSmalls]

What if this is his big trolling finale? Like, this is when he drops the act and says "trolled you all to shit" and then walks away a motherfucking legend.

 

[Coleslaw]

Great. But that's the DUI statute. However, I agree, let's nip it in the bud. So for that we have to go to the Incest Statute.

§ 18.2-366. Sexual intercourse by persons forbidden to marry; incest; penalties

law.lis.virginia.gov

It . . . it does actually use gendered language in a way that the DUI statute doesn't. Specifically 'his', potentially modifying the 'any person'.

Huh.

§ 1-216. Gender

law.lis.virginia.gov

It doesn't matter if Chris is female or even non-binary.

 

[HumanHive]

OP should be required reading for everyone on the forum right now imho.

 

[ShoFuKan]

It's a shame I only have one sticker to give. This is good analysis.

 

[Scrumption]

I keep seeing people bringing up the idea that Virginia doesn't recognize mother/daughter incest. I have no idea where they came up with thinking that the perpetrator must be male because the statutes criminalizing incest in Virginia don't even mention the perp's sex. The closest that statutes get to discussing the person's sex is by using sex-specific terms like penetration, cunnilingus, etc.

Perhaps the idea stems from caselaw on the subject, but I have not been able to come up with anything that sets out that precedent.


Here is the relevant criminal info on sexual violence for anyone interested. If a criminal proceeding happens, and the prosecution seeks to charge him with a sex crime, the first crime listed sounds most likely. I listed some other relevant ones below it.

Sexual Crimes
VA ST § 18.2-361(B) - on incest
Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus... upon his... mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony.

VA ST § 18.2-67.1(A) - on forcible sodomy
An accused shall be guilty of forcible sodomy if he or she engages in cunnilingus... with a complaining witness whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person, and
2. The act is accomplished against the will of the complaining witness... through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness

VA ST § 18.2-61(A) - on rape
If any person has sexual intercourse with a complaining witness,... and such act is accomplished... (ii) through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness... he or she shall be guilty of rape.

Punishment
VA Code Ann. § 18.2-10 - Punishment for conviction of felony; penalty
(e) For Class 5 felonies, a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than 10 years, or in the discretion of the jury or the court trying the case without a jury, confinement in jail for not more than 12 months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.

For any felony offense committed... (ii) on or after July 1, 2000, [the court] shall, except in cases in which the court orders a suspended term of confinement of at least six months, impose an additional term of incarceration of not less than six months nor more than three years, which shall be suspended conditioned upon successful completion of a period of post-release supervision pursuant to § 19.2-295.2 and compliance with such other terms as the sentencing court may require. However, such additional term may only be imposed when the sentence includes an active term of incarceration in a correctional facility.

 

[Coleslaw]

So this really heavily depends on the exact wording of the statutes.

The way it's decided which crimes are the same and which aren't for the purpose of prosecuting multiple crimes from a single incident is by looking at the elements you have to prove. If each independently requires an element the other doesn't, then you're good. Otherwise the protections against double jeopardy kick in.

So in other words if elder abuse is made up of A B C D E and abuse of an incapacitated adult is made up of A B C D F you're good. But if it's made up of A B C D E F you can't prosecute both because elder abuse wouldn't contain an element that isn't also contained in abuse of an incapacitated adult.

So if someone is acquitted of murder they can't be convictes of manslaughter?

 

[ANobody]

So here's a question. Considering that a lot of Chris's defence might come in the form of arguing manipulation by internet trolls, and presumably showing off at least a small fraction of chris's ahem...body of work on the net; how likely would it be for Chris to be banned from the internet? I mean fucking capitol protesters got banned i dont see why an institutionalized Chris couldn't be restricted from deluding themselves with more pop media.

 

[Scrumption]

So if someone is acquitted of murder they can't be convictes of manslaughter?

Incorrect. Acquittal can mean that the prosecution was unable to prove that the defendant's acts met all elements of the crime charged. As for murder and manslaughter, they carry different elements. Murder is harder to prove than manslaughter, so people can be acquitted for murder but found guilty for manslaughter.

 

[Alexander Hamilton]

Well, obviously none of Chris’ confession can’t be introduced in court, since he clearly prefaced it with STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL.

Jokes aside; Mr. Hamilton, thank you for gracing us mere farmers with your expertise. If you have the time I have a couple of questions myself:

-Can we assume interrogations and trial proceedings will be taped/accessible for public viewing?

-Would a member of the jury who knew beforehand about the autism spectacular that is Chris be obligated to recuse themselves?

-What sort of condolence package do we need to put together for the sad sap left in charge of defending Chris?

Trial proceedings are generally open. Interrogations would be taped but you'd have to file a public record request for and at least in my jurisdiction we're allowed to deny those if there's an ongoing investigation or prosecution.

That would depend. Jurors don't recuse themselves, but I get what you're saying. Depending on their answers, and whether they said it would affect them, they more than likely would be struck for cause. If somehow the Judge denied that, I imagine the defense would remove them using a peremptory strike because holy shit that wouldn't end well.

And for the defense lawyer? Probably a lot of hand sanitizer, headache pills, and alcohol.

Incorrect. Acquittal can mean that the prosecution was unable to prove that the defendant's acts met all elements of the crime charged. As for murder and manslaughter, they carry different elements. Murder is harder to prove than manslaughter, so people can be acquitted for murder but found guilty for manslaughter.

To piggy-back on this a little, what will sometimes happen with crimes like murder and manslaughter is the prosecution or defense may request jury instructions on the lesser included crimes, or a crime that fits the defense theory if they can prove it.

So if that's granted, the jury might be given forms for both murder and manslaughter and told they can only convict for one and the central issue at trial might be premeditation, or lack thereof.

So here's a question. Considering that a lot of Chris's defence might come in the form of arguing manipulation by internet trolls, and presumably showing off at least a small fraction of chris's ahem...body of work on the net; how likely would it be for Chris to be banned from the internet? I mean fucking capitol protesters got banned i dont see why an institutionalized Chris might be restricted from deluding themselves with more pop media.

I think there's a good chance. Partly because of the sex stuff...sex offenders are often restricted heavily in terms of internet use.

 

[Coleslaw]

So this really heavily depends on the exact wording of the statutes.

The way it's decided which crimes are the same and which aren't for the purpose of prosecuting multiple crimes from a single incident is by looking at the elements you have to prove. If each independently requires an element the other doesn't, then you're good. Otherwise the protections against double jeopardy kick in.

So in other words if elder abuse is made up of A B C D E and abuse of an incapacitated adult is made up of A B C D F you're good. But if it's made up of A B C D E F you can't prosecute both because elder abuse wouldn't contain an element that isn't also contained in abuse of an incapacitated adult.

So if someone was acquitted of A B C D E they can't be convicted of A B C D E F but it can go the other way around?

 

[Alexander Hamilton]

So if someone was acquitted of A B C D E they can't be convicted of A B C D E F but it can go the other way around?

No, it's that both crimes require proof of an element the other does not. So for the purposes of the Blockberger test, which is what this is called, A B C D E and A B C D E F are identical because only one of them requires proof of an element the other does not.

 

[Quijibo69]

In before the Continuance train rolls on in.

 

[Wormy]

Is there any actual chance of Chris's autism working in his favor? If so, how much?

 

[Coleslaw]

No, it's that both crimes require proof of an element the other does not. So for the purposes of the Blockberger test, which is what this is called, A B C D E and A B C D E F are identical because only one of them requires proof of an element the other does not.

So even if the acquittal was because F hadn't been proved, a prosecution for A B C D E would still be barred?

 

[Alexander Hamilton]

So even if the acquittal was because F hadn't been proved, a prosecution for A B C D E would still be barred?

Yes. Because what matters is the elements of the statute. The wording is 'twice put in jeopardy' not 'twice convicted'.

We wrote the Constitution this way to stop exactly that - me going "Huh I lost at trial cause I couldn't prove F. Oh well, rearrest him boys. I've got an idea . . .'