Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
I have some questions that I haven't seen addressed here yet.

1. Can you explain what the deal is with civil vs criminal court? Will there be two hearings/trials? If so, will he get different lawyers? Does the $750 situation fall under the civil or legal case (or both)? Does Barb have any control over either?

2. Theoretically, could Chris produce milk from prison or while on probation? How much internet access are criminals like him typically allowed? If he's completely banned from the Internet, could he draw and publish sonichu pages?

3. If VA will treat Chris as legally male, why the female marker on his mugshot? Are they gonna have to use female pronouns in court?

4. Does the number of times he did it matter for incest/rape charges? Is it possible that some of the instances could be ruled rape and others consensual?

5. What is the absolute worst thing Chris could do in his situation?
I’ll answer number 5 for you. The worst thing Chris could do right now is talk to the Greene Co detectives that are going to interrogate him. What Chris SHOULD do is say nothing to them except that he wants a lawyer. What he’s GOING TO do is spill his guts trying to explain away his crimes.
 
Also a prosecutor, also not your lawyer, also never giving legal advice on the internet ever.

If Chris wanted to go to trial and his defense allowed that to happen... that would be very wow. If I were Chris's attorney I would say no until he got mad and tried to ditch me and/or represent himself, then I would argue to the judge that Chris is not competent to aid in his own defense or to represent himself (obviously). Or tell Chris's new attorney that Chris is not competent to aid in his own defense in my opinion, be ready for the ride. Anything to keep Chris from being in front of a jury in any capacity.
It would be awesome if there was a defense-side Kiwi out there who could speak on exactly how much it would suck to be assigned as Chris' public defender, but I suspect there might not be too many of those around here. I think it's fair to say, though, that this is a godawful case for any defense attorney, in part because of the charge, but mostly because of the client. Ngl, if I was the prosecutor on this case, the satisfaction from watching the in-court interactions between Chris and his attorney would be pretty sweet, especially if it was a PD I wasn't particularly fond of.

I do wonder about the competency stuff, though. In my (admittedly limited) experience with cases where the defense attorney declares a doubt, the defendant is way more off the rails mentally than Chris seems to be. Even taking into consideration Chris' conflation of reality and fantasy, he's by no means a clear cut case of incompetence. (Entirely distinct from insanity, as has already been explained. Chris isn't legally insane.)

Also, from what I've seen, public defenders tend to be wary of declaring a doubt, even when it's pretty clearly warranted, for fear of entangling their client in the criminal mental health system. @Alexander Hamilton, you're obviously more experienced in the mass incarceratin' world than I am, any thoughts on this?
 
I have some questions that I haven't seen addressed here yet.

1. Can you explain what the deal is with civil vs criminal court? Will there be two hearings/trials? If so, will he get different lawyers? Does the $750 situation fall under the civil or legal case (or both)? Does Barb have any control over either?

2. Theoretically, could Chris produce milk from prison or while on probation? How much internet access are criminals like him typically allowed? If he's completely banned from the Internet, could he draw and publish sonichu pages?

3. If VA will treat Chris as legally male, why the female marker on his mugshot? Are they gonna have to use female pronouns in court?

4. Does the number of times he did it matter for incest/rape charges? Is it possible that some of the instances could be ruled rape and others consensual?

5. What is the absolute worst thing Chris could do in his situation?

In this instance it is unlikely that a civil action will occur, unless you count social services type courts to determine who will have power of attorney or a similar sort of conservatorship over Barb. There may end up being civil courts over the rent / mortgage if everyone is locked up or in a home. Chris's actions may have risen to the level of obtaining money by false pretense or theft, but he already had access to the account and presumably had for quite some time. At worst it's theft, at best it's very difficult to charge when the victim has allowed unfettered access to their accounts over time and this isn't new or emergent behavior. A charge of elderly abuse is more appropriate.

In my experience orders that one be unable to use the internet are more rare now than they used to be. In the mid 2000s / early 2010s it wasn't rare to see it for sex offenders as a condition of release or supervision. Now it has reached the point where the internet is such a daily necessity for most that they will argue undue hardship in being able to not access the internet. I have seen it meted out much more rarely now and generally only for those distributing cheese pizza or soliciting sex online. Generally a sex offender must register their online identities and accounts in their jurisdictions, and if found to be operating an unregistered account or creating a new persona online they can and will be prosecuted for a registry violation- a felony in and of itself. That said, VSP monitors the VA registries and my experience is they're slow, inefficient, and suck at it compared to other states. I have many times happened upon some dickhole from VA who had been gone from there for months or years and still had no active warrants from VA because they don't do their fucking checkups there. From past experience orders to avoid the internet or that placed considerable restrictions on internet use were rarer from VA than more competent states as well.

Trannyshit is still a shitshow in court. Everyone knows he's just a transtrender but they'll likely just toss him into solitary or similar due to his mental health, troonism, and being accused of a sex offense- all things that place him at high risk of violence by other inmates. Being in a segregated unit or even in the padded room is the best thing he can get. They may also have a mandatory covid quarantine for new arrivals in place as well.

The number of times can matter. If he's claiming to have done it 20 odd times, they could conceivably charge that. Proving it is another matter entirely, so it is unlikely to stick without the testimony of the victim, or physical evidence suggesting the multitude of rapes. While he could and likely will be charged with some form of rape in addition to the incest, i suspect that a mental health examination of barb may leave it possible that she is unable to knowingly consent, making all the events de facto rape. If I find videos or photographs taken over a period of time I will charge multiple offenses. If I can't determine that I will go with a singular event, or everything I can pile into that one (in addition to rape, you can get crimes against nature, indecent liberties charges, abuse of the elderly, etc, depending on what the charges are called in VA). Normally if you have a willing or competent victim you can go for multiple charges, but that might prove difficult here based on Barb.

The worst thing he could do period? Picking a fight with the biggest MS13 looking dude he can find. The worst thing generally speaking? Going to speak to the first detective that comes in when he's transported back to Greene county and telling them anything and everything without an attorney present. I doubt that would happen because his attorney would later look to determine his competency and then throw out whatever confessions he made, but Chris has already admitted to multiple incestuous acts, and presumably they believe them to be credible at this time. He could tell them about a load of other shit he's done, and let's be honest- anyone that sex possessed likely has had some pornography of questionable age ranges on his computer as well he could tell them about, or he might admit to all sorts of other deviant behaviors.

Bear in mind that if they have physical evidence of the crime and Chris bragging on the internet about it, he's honestly fucked. That's about as slam dunk as it gets. Defense attorneys know full well that not every case or even the vast majority is going to make it to trial, and it sure doesn't sound like this one has much to stand on. Sometime the game is already lost. At this point they'll play damage control- focus on Chris, how fucked up he is, and look for the mercy they can get. Remember that Chris is a moron who doesn't have leverage. He can't flip on his dealer like Jamal does to get a slightly better deal. Chris can accept restrictions and conditions in the hopes that they'll mitigate whatever sentences he may be facing, he doesn't have any real bargaining chips. Remember a defense attorney isn't there just to beat charges- they're also there to vigorously advocate for their client and to ensure that all proper rules and protocol are followed. Sometimes pleading guilty while introducing mitigating factors and engaging pretrial treatment and services is the best thing an offender can do.

Chris should sit tight, clam up, and he'll likely get a bond set when he arrives back in Greene county. Will it be something he can make? Who knows. His attorney can always argue later to have it reduced. He would have been in a better spot if he hadn't fled to Richmond, though. That makes it look like he was running, even if Chris didn't see it that way.

To be honest I'd be surprised if Chris's house didn't get broken into or vandalized over this. I'm sure his neighbors weren't big fans to begin with. Mix in some weenery with a rape? There could be a brick through a window and all the Sonichu goods stolen.
 
Last edited:
3. If VA will treat Chris as legally male, why the female marker on his mugshot? Are they gonna have to use female pronouns in court?
Virginia is still based enough to keep prisons single-sex, fortunately. (Although, as already noted, if there is a prison saga, it'll only be after a plea, probation, and subsequent probation violation saga. Probably many violations, imo.)

As for pronouns in court, that will be interesting. I've seen a few trans defendants at various random court appearances and my experience has always been that everyone involved (PD, DA, judge, etc.) uses the defendant's preferred pronouns, no matter how mannish the defendant looks. If I had to guess, I'd say that's likely what will happen during Chris' court appearances, too (at least on the record lol). But hey, maybe Virginia is even more based that I'm giving them credit for. (Certainly more than my jurisdiction. (:_()

Trannyshit is still a shitshow in court. Everyone knows he's just a transtrender but they'll likely just toss him into solitary or similar due to his mental health, troonism, and being accused of a sex offense- all things that place him at high risk of violence by other inmates. Being in a segregated unit or even in the padded room is the best thing he can get. They may also have a mandatory covid quarantine for new arrivals in place as well.
Yeah, no one wants the headache that'll result from putting Chris in gen pop.
 
Can anyone answer as to the probable scope of discovery in this case? Is a search warrant for his hard drive completely out of the question? Considering that a plea is a likely possibility, does agreeing to a plea deal have any effect on limiting the scope of discovery since the case wouldn't be going to trial?
 
Alexander, do you have an idea of which type of jail and prison Chris would be held in? We've all heard about trangender women getting to go to prison with women in California recently. As we know, Chris has had his gender legally changed to female, and the first picture Null posted of his arrest says female as well.
Which section of Jail will Chris be held in as he awaits trial? Which section would he be held in when or if convicted? Is there sections of mental institutions?
 
Can anyone answer as to the probable scope of discovery in this case? Is a search warrant for his hard drive completely out of the question? Considering that a plea is a likely possibility, does agreeing to a plea deal have any effect on limiting the scope of discovery since the case wouldn't be going to trial?

Depends on a lot of factors, many of which we only can speculate as to the relative value of.

Did Chris make the recording on his computer, over a program like Discord or Skype? If so, maybe.

How were the messages sent? There is probably a preservation order going in on his social media accounts now, and his phone is in airplane mode in a faraday cage envelope, and it will sit on some guy's desk until the warrant comes in and he busts out the Cellebrite.

His conversations will Null refer to emails and bank statements, which does potentially give cause to search his online accounts and transaction history. Especially if investigators are aware of multiple parties having access to his email.

Does Chris, in interviews or past or current statements, articulate anything that would give cause to believe he may store material of interest on his computer? It could be something so simple as a post or statement claiming he kept photographs of a gal pal.

In general in a situation like this I would not consider it difficult to obtain a warrant to seize his electronics and search them. There is also the scope of the investigation at play- in addition to the sex crimes, they will potentially look at where the money he took was going, which would mean checking financial transactions for both Barb and Chris over a period of time, and investigating potentially unusual or strangely listed and named transactions.

That said, as ludicrous as the situation is with Chris Chan, to a detective this entire saga is on the simpler side of things. You have a victim and a suspect who is mentally unwell and is already recorded admitting to the crimes.
 
I have a feeling he's hiding even more

I think there is a very high likelihood that there could be child pornography or similar on his computer. If you will sexualize your mother, you are at the end of your rope, and you have jacked it to literally everything.

The people I knew who committed similar offenses would fuck anything- man, woman, child, dog, horse, microwaved food, dolls, toys, anything.
 
So, no, a rape kit isn't mandatory. But that's assuming she's competent/of sound mind enough to even make that call/understand what's being asked of her. I don't know about Virginia law on who gets to make that call if she's not.

I suppose you could get a warrant for it, similar to the blood draw warrants you can get for suspected drunk drivers who won't consent. But that feels icky.

As a general rule, a victim never /has/ to play ball. But the common idea that a victim gets to press or drop charges is also wrong. The State does.

So if she won't play ball? Proceed with what we have. Seek a warrant for Chris' electronic devices. Seek a warrant for Chris' texts. Seek a warrant for Barb and Chris' financial information.

And the big one, interview Chris.
If the interogation is recorded be it video or audio, would it be allowed to be release to the general public if asked, ie after the trial could anyone just ask the courts or the police for a copy? If he was found innocent would it be allowed or would that tape never see the light of day legally?
 
I've probably just missed it because there have been 10,000,000 posts today, but what is the proof he's being held for incest rather than anything else?
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Dork Of Ages
PD here, not in virginia, not your attorney, all statements here speculation and opinion, etc.
For me, the thing that I don't understand is the autism as a mitigating factor statute in practice for this case. It is entirely in the discretion of the court from the wording I've seen that the court *may* use it, and further, the fact that it requires clear and convincing evidence that but-for the autism/mental disorder the criminal conduct would not have occurred really makes me reticent to say it is a done deal on if it would be applied should Chris actually be stupid enough to not take some plea or another. As well, honestly Alexander, in your experience have you ever seen someone who repeatedly raped a family member given anything less than concurrent mandatory minimums in custodial? Even with a couple decent working relationships with prosecutors I've literally never been in a situation where I've been able to plea further down than that in similar circumstances. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough or something but I have my doubts that there's a future where chris doesn't see the inside of a state penn cell.
 
Boom. That's the final word on the subject. Chris absolutely can be prosecuted for incest, and it will be irrelevant whether the law recognizes him as female or not
Appreciate the info, badly and frequently needed here on the farms, esp since Better Call Saul lost his mind and his pants here during Nick's trial but I digress.
In the above statement from you are you being sarcastic? If so, please dont do that.
 
He is going to be committed to some sort of mental asylum for the rest of his natural life and that will be the last we hear of him.
doubtful considering the high bar that is a defendant proving they were too insane to understand that what they were doing was wrong or that they literally couldn't resist the impulse to do it. This would entirely have to be on chris to prove, and from text messages that could be subpoena'd that we already know about, he was fully aware of the fact that what he was doing was wrong, attempts to conceal the act, lies regarding it, etc. Best case for Chris is a diminished capacity guilty rather than NGRI.
 
I’m a Registered Nurse who used to work closely with many clients in group homes, adult family homes and the like.

I have always thought that something like that would make an excellent fit for Chris...
Did you not read the lawyer's assessment of Chris as an "opportunistic" offender? So you think a group home wouldn't afford him any opportunity to groom some mentally disabled person into sex? Apparently you aren't watching the back doors very well.
 
Back