#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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Mister Dongs said:
It was during the post-Warcampaign glasnost where Frog very belatedly concluded that a self-appointed purity testing force that constantly meted out accusations of 'treason' was not a net positive for Comicsgate. Sketch Therapy was also against WC at the time, before Frog or nearly all of CG, but his reasoning was a lot more straightforward: JDA, Nasser, Smiller and Tim Lim were traitors, and in time it was revealed that Ro and Pan and Gat were also traitors in a completely natural procession of rico act infiltration delarroz discord modafoqa. Back then, Sketch was definitely "ride or die".

Then Frog began reaching out to outcasts like Nasser, JDA and Mike S Miller and offered a public cessation of hostilities on his part and, ideally, the beginnings of a very slow reconsolidation of a fractured movement. From Sketch's perspective, amnesty to traitors makes zero sense and the gradual reacceptance of people like Nasser and friends of Smiller like Aaron Lopresti is maddening.

edit: Speaking of, Warcampaign Black Dragon Comics launched the Hanzo/Ball collaboration Bulletmaker today:

www.indiegogo.com

BULLETMAKER #1

Post-Apocalyptic, Pre-Armageddon action, fantasy horror, inspired by Kentaro Miura’s classic BERSERK | Check out 'BULLETMAKER #1' on Indiegogo.
www.indiegogo.com www.indiegogo.com

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$40 for a 48 page book padded to 100 pages with CG JumpStart Leftovers? Who the fuck are they kidding?

bulletmaker.png
 
This is a riot! Sciver throws a fit over light criticism, says farewell cruel farms... and it wasn't over something I posted? If I had an edge I'd have lost it!

Even better, he has the utmost temerity to call that post cancer after the CG pisstream co-hosted by the world's drunkest masked faggot.

Just out of curiosity, is anyone regretting having followed these weirdos for so long? I kinda do lol.
 
Absurdity said:
Just out of curiosity, is anyone regretting having followed these weirdos for so long? I kinda do lol.
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Depends on your definition of "follow".

Mister Dongs said:
edit: Speaking of, Warcampaign Black Dragon Comics launched the Hanzo/Ball collaboration Bulletmaker today:
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Holy fuck that book is over-rendered. That's never been to my taste but there's definitely a market for buckets of ink dumped into hatching.

I'ttl take forever to get 100 pages done though...

VIkkiVerse said:
$40 for a 48 page book padded to 100 pages with CG JumpStart Leftovers? Who the fuck are they kidding?
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Oh.

Unless it's 48 pages and 52 pages of filler.
 
Newman's Own said:
When did Sketch turn on his lord and Caesar? I thought Sketch was "ride or die" with EVS 4LIFE.
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I think quite recently. For months, Sketch had been living a paranoid theory that all of the mods in the EVS streams were conspiring against him. EVS was surrounded by traitors who were keeping Sketch's messages hidden in EVS's livestream chats. That the mods were keeping EVS from hearing sketch speak with the true voice of the comicsgate fans. I think the theory went that there were sleeper agents among EVS's mods that worked for various people EVS had fallen out with in the past. But mostly it was a giant COPE by which sketch could explain why EVS was doing and saying things that Sketch didn't agree with.

Sketch explained the stream mod conspiracy at length in this video:


I think he finally gave up the COPE and concluded that EVS was part of the conspiracy as well. But it probably wouldn't take much for EVS to win sketch back. Or Sketch could just have one of his trademark changes of mind about the whole thing and move on to some other form of insanity.
 
Miniluv said:
This is exactly right. I'm not sure what the Avengers comics sales figures have been for the last decade, but I'd be willing to bet they aren't anywhere near the revenue generated by even the first Avengers movie back in 2012, to say nothing of all the Avengers films combined.

I remember a while back I'd quoted a snippet of an article about manga's sales figures destroying that of American comics and the great point someone made about how there was a sense of "cross media continuity" in anime and manga and how the anime helped sell the manga of whatever series by virtue of simply looking like the manga and closely (sometimes exactly) adapting the manga stories. You like a show and want to know what happens next, you pick up the manga where the anime leaves off and you can pretty much follow it without missing a beat.
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"Cross media continuity", aka "Transmedia storytelling" is a recent concept (the last two decades) used by academics and professionals in the media analytics discipline (a month ago I started digging around for related academic material since CG was dry for content). The idea behind transmedia storytelling is that, if you're a fan of an anime or manga, Star Trek, Warhammer 40K or Star Wars for that matter, there would be an 'expanded universe' of books, comics or cartoons a fan could turn to and continue to consume. If you liked an anime, the manga would be further along in the storyline, or contain scenarios, perspectives or entire plots involving the characters you want more of that didn't make it into the adaptation. Star Wars, which I would argue was the most developed example of this phenomenon, had lines of comics that referenced the movies and books that referenced the comics, creating a contained self-referential world of canonicity that allowed the fan to seamlessly transition across platforms, writers, creators and mediums in an unbroken continuity of consumption. The advent of the internet brought this to a new stage by making the comics, video and text, as well as the emergence of "participatory fandom" - allowing the fan to personally engage with the material, all available from a single platform on a level that beforehand could only be achieved in an extremely limited manner through conventions and fanzines.

This whole system was broken by Marvel and LucasFilms themselves when they rejected the existing shared universe when creating the MCU and Disney Sequels. They had good reasons to do so - why leave your billion dollar project in the hands of and leave your million-dollar creative team beholden to some shit Jim Starlin thought up on some acid trip in the 1970s? On the other side, Marvel Comics could have theoretically made an "MCU continuity of comics" to try and capture fans of the movies with comics set in the movie universe, yet couldn't because this was what the already existing Ultimate line was supposed to be, an "rebooted, updated cinematic line" of comics yet in practice was just a bunch of terribly written but beautifully drawn comics by hacks like Millar, Loeb and Bendis that was rejected wholesale by Hollywood even more than the material the original comics, making it unsuitable for "transmedia storytelling" purposes until the decision was made to remove the Ultimate line entirely in 2015 with the Time Runs Out Marvel event. I suppose they could try now, nearly 14 years after the launch of the first Iron Man film, but that sounds like closing the barn door after the horse is already gone.

The end result was there being Marvel movie fans and Marvel comics fans.
 
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"Writer" Steven S. Deknight is refusing to write comics for marvel until C.B. Cebulski is fired by marvel for pretending to be Asian.

Its tough to know why Marvel or anyone else would care.

Deknight started out as a writer for Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years ago. He was responsible for the Netflix Daredevil series six years ago. But his only recent entertainment industry credit was getting fired off the Netflix series Jupiter's Legacy AND being the writer/director of the second Pacific Rim movie whose performance was a disappointment. Almost everything he has done since 2015 has been a disappointment.

He is also known for casting his wife (Jaime Slater) in all of his projects since around 2015.

I would expect that his outrage over Cebulski is a virtue signal aimed at getting attention for himself or getting a pity job writing somewhere in TV.

He got screenrant and several comics-related websites to cover his lunacy. But I dont think much of anyone else cares. Him working for marvel doing comics was an indication that he could no longer get jobs in TV anyway.
 
Mister Dongs said:
this was what the already existing Ultimate line was supposed to be, an "rebooted, updated cinematic line" of comics yet in practice was just a bunch of terribly written but beautifully drawn comics by hacks like Millar, Loeb and Bendis that was rejected wholesale by Hollywood even more than the material the original comics,
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This is simply not true.

The Tony Stark of the MCU is almost a direct lift from the Ultimates version of the character along with Fury and Hawkeye. The Hulk's origin also much more closely resembles the Hulk of the Ultimate line. Peter Parker's supporting cast (Ned Leeds especially) is adapted from Miles Morales and Parker Ultimates stories. The cinematic MJ (race aside) bares far more resemblance to Bendis's MJ than to the wild party girl Lee and Romita created. The concept of the MCU Avengers resembles the Ultimates far more than the originals. Even Fox's Fantastic Four 2 lifted their concept of Galactus from Ellis's Ultimate version.

The Ultimate line was likely written as updates of the characters with the idea of making them new source material for movies Marvel or other rights holders would make. Kind of, "See, the Avengers isn't to silly for a block buster film. Look how edgy and cinematic Millar made the Ultimates." What got made was a combination of Ultimates, classic Marvel and new ideas that was close enough to the original in spirit to make happy all but the most autistic of comics fans.

The Ultimates line was definitely not "rejected wholesale" by the film makers but rather picked over for elements they thought would work better in modern cinema where original Marvel stories were to dated or plain silly.
 
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Strix454 said:
"Writer" Steven S. Deknight is refusing to write comics for marvel until C.B. Cebulski is fired by marvel for pretending to be Asian.

Its tough to know why Marvel or anyone else would care.

Deknight started out as a writer for Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years ago. He was responsible for the Netflix Daredevil series six years ago. But his only recent entertainment industry credit was getting fired off the Netflix series Jupiter's Legacy AND being the writer/director of the second Pacific Rim movie whose performance was a disappointment. Almost everything he has done since 2015 has been a disappointment.

He is also known for casting his wife (Jaime Slater) in all of his projects since around 2015.

I would expect that his outrage over Cebulski is a virtue signal aimed at getting attention for himself or getting a pity job writing somewhere in TV.

He got screenrant and several comics-related websites to cover his lunacy. But I dont think much of anyone else cares. Him working for marvel doing comics was an indication that he could no longer get jobs in TV anyway.
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This is what actual punching down looks like. Some failing TV egghead taking pot shots on the way down at someone most people who read comics would not even know or care about for clout with the not subtle suggestion that he is begging to work with them, truly pathetic.
 
sKr0n said:
This is what actual punching down looks like. Some failing TV egghead taking pot shots on the way down at someone most people who read comics would not even know or care about for clout with the not subtle suggestion that he is begging to work with them, truly pathetic.
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Reminds of when some blue haired bitch complained about "women in fridges" and managed to turn that into a career of leveraging woke threats to get comics writing gigs.

It's definitely a grift.
 
Mister Dongs said:
"Cross media continuity", aka "Transmedia storytelling" is a recent concept (the last two decades) used by academics and professionals in the media analytics discipline (a month ago I started digging around for related academic material since CG was dry for content). The idea behind transmedia storytelling is that, if you're a fan of an anime or manga, Star Trek, Warhammer 40K or Star Wars for that matter, there would be an 'expanded universe' of books, comics or cartoons a fan could turn to and continue to consume. If you liked an anime, the manga would be further along in the storyline, or contain scenarios, perspectives or entire plots involving the characters you want more of that didn't make it into the adaptation. Star Wars, which I would argue was the most developed example of this phenomenon, had lines of comics that referenced the movies and books that referenced the comics, creating a contained self-referential world of canonicity that allowed the fan to seamlessly transition across platforms, writers, creators and mediums in an unbroken continuity of consumption. The advent of the internet brought this to a new stage by making the comics, video and text, as well as the emergence of "participatory fandom" - allowing the fan to personally engage with the material, all available from a single platform on a level that beforehand could only be achieved in an extremely limited manner through conventions and fanzines.'
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Star Wars Shadows of the Empire is a perfect example of success. Huge comic book, toy, and video game sales. All feeding one another.

Mister Dongs said:
This whole system was broken by Marvel and LucasFilms themselves when they rejected the existing shared universe when creating the MCU and Disney Sequels. They had good reasons to do so - why leave your billion dollar project in the hands of and leave your million-dollar creative team beholden to some shit Jim Starlin thought up on some acid trip in the 1970s?
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Because unlike either of those things, Jim Starlin's acid trip still holds up and is beloved fifty years later? :smug:

Mister Dongs said:
On the other side, Marvel Comics could have theoretically made an "MCU continuity of comics" to try and capture fans of the movies with comics set in the movie universe, yet couldn't because this was what the already existing Ultimate line was supposed to be, an "rebooted, updated cinematic line" of comics yet in practice was just a bunch of terribly written but beautifully drawn comics by hacks like Millar, Loeb and Bendis that was rejected wholesale by Hollywood even more than the material the original comics, making it unsuitable for "transmedia storytelling" purposes until the decision was made to remove the Ultimate line entirely in 2015 with the Time Runs Out Marvel event. I suppose they could try now, nearly 14 years after the launch of the first Iron Man film, but that sounds like closing the barn door after the horse is already gone.
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And would the existing talent even be able to manage it? If Marvel tried to put out a Downey Jr. Iron Man book, would it really be that different than what they currently do? Worse, without Downey Jr.'s charisma on screen, would people realize they never cared about Iron Man the character?

Mister Dongs said:
The end result was there being Marvel movie fans and Marvel comics fans.
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Kindof like Batman '89.

Speaking of, i'll never forget Kate Leth bitching after she got shit for wanting to draw Batman and admitting she never read Dark Knight Returns.

Newman's Own said:
Reminds of when some blue haired bitch complained about "women in fridges" and managed to turn that into a career of leveraging woke threats to get comics writing gigs.

It's definitely a grift.
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That's how you get hired to write at Marvel and DC in the last twenty years. CB would be following in the fine tradition of Joe Quesada, Dan Didio, and Axel Alonso. :lol:
 
Of all the recent developments in the saga of ComicsGate, Cecil making gains at the gym is the most unexpected.

I would hazard a guess that he responded to one of those Charles Atlas 'hero of the beach' adverts that used to appear in comics back when the spread of communism was still a legitimate area of concern for Captain America. On streams he increasingly resembles a degenerate version of Bane.
 
Newman's Own said:
This is simply not true.

The Tony Stark of the MCU is almost a direct lift from the Ultimates version of the character along with Fury and Hawkeye. The Hulk's origin also much more closely resembles the Hulk of the Ultimate line.
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Visually, a lot was borrowed from Bryan Hitch and his inimitable work where the characters deliberately drawn to resemble actors. Writing wise, I'm just going to post this synopsis of Ultimate Iron Man and ask what does the MCU Tony Stark sound more like: this or the original Iron Man origin story mixed with the Armor Wars storyline of the 1980s?

en.wikipedia.org

Ultimate Iron Man - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Ultimate Iron Man #1 reveals that Tony Stark's genius is the result of an accident his mother (brilliant scientist Maria Cerrera, who is the second wife of Tony Stark's father, Howard, and works for him in research and development before Tony was born) suffered while she was carrying him in her womb. The accident changed the genetic structure of both her and her unborn child, but culminated in her death during childbirth. The child, named Antonio (Tony for short), developed neural tissue normally found only in the brain all throughout his body, causing his entire body to act as one massive brain, giving him tremendous mental capacity. However, one of the side effects of the accident from the minute he was born was an extreme dermal sensitivity, making even the sensation of air on his skin feel like severe burns due to the overstimulation of neural cells in his skin. Howard Stark, a master inventor and owner and CEO of his own billion dollar tech company, used a newly invented liquid, biological armour to ease Tony's agony; a buffer allowing him to interact with the world normally, but one he would have to wear for the rest of his life.
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As for Hulk, the character was green and didn't even engage in cannibalism in the family friendly Avengers movie, or talk about Freddy Prinze Jr. banging Betty Ross, and other "classic" Mark Millar gems.
 
Mister Dongs said:
Star Wars, which I would argue was the most developed example of this phenomenon, had lines of comics that referenced the movies and books that referenced the comics, creating a contained self-referential world of canonicity that allowed the fan to seamlessly transition across platforms, writers, creators and mediums in an unbroken continuity of consumption. The advent of the internet brought this to a new stage by making the comics, video and text, as well as the emergence of "participatory fandom" - allowing the fan to personally engage with the material, all available from a single platform on a level that beforehand could only be achieved in an extremely limited manner through conventions and fanzines.

This whole system was broken by Marvel and LucasFilms themselves when they rejected the existing shared universe when creating the MCU and Disney Sequels.
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Star Wars pretty much perfected it. You didn't have to read any of the novels or comics to understand what was going on in the main movie continuity. The average person could be familiar with the mythology of the movies and have 95% of the important points. It added some flavor and texture like filling in small gaps of information or fleshing out backstories of minor characters but wasn't necessary to enjoy the main product. Sometimes it didn't really do any of that and went off on its own tangent like the initial Marvel Star Wars run or the syndicated newspaper strip. Sometimes it was retconned into obscure footnotes like Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

The thing about Star Wars media outside of the films was that a lot of the early stuff was written before people were obsessed with everything having some kind of in universe continuity (or even before people started commonly thinking of films in the context of a "universe") and well before anything like continuity had been set up by Lucas or Lucasfilm as a whole. Things like the Marvel series and Splinter of the Mind's Eye and even the Holiday Special were written when it was just one very successful movie and people wanted more stories told in that world. There was no foreshadowing or hinting around that Vader was Luke's father (partially because Lucas was making it up as he went along) and literally nobody was watching ESB in 1980 going "but that's not what happens in the comics". It was a simpler time.

It wasn't until after the OT finished that Lucasfilm started the process of identifying what it considered to be "canon" in the non-film media in its own convoluted way with the caveat that none of it could contradict established canon as seen in the films (which would eliminate a large part of the Marvel stuff and some of the books written to that point) and that any of it could be dismissed by future storylines in future films (which Disney pulled the trigger on immediately). Now Disney uses non-film media to try and patch the plot holes of their terrible movies rather than use it to add anything to the lore.
 
Mister Dongs said:
Writing wise, I'm just going to post this synopsis of Ultimate Iron Man and ask what does the MCU Tony Stark sound more like: this or the original Iron Man origin story mixed with the Armor Wars storyline of the 1980s?
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If memory serves the Orson Scott Card origin of Tony Stark was swept under the rug and never spoken of again in the Ultimates line. However, the philandering hard drinking asshole Tony of the Millar Ultimates arcs was the closest comics version of Stark to the MCU incarnation. I said they lifted the character, not the origin.

Tony's origin was not Armour Wars but rather the Obadiah Stane/Iron Monger arc and the original Marvel origin.

Hawkeye was the career soldier/spy instead of a carny/criminal with a completely different personality. Ultimates.

Fury was the super cool black dude to young to have been a Howling Commando. Ultimates.

The Avenger's being a Shield initiative is all Millar Ultimates.

So are the Chitauri. Natasha being a founding member. (though not a traitor) Captain America's power set. The Triskelion. And so on.

Only after the first Avengers movie did they slow down on mining the Ultimate Universe for ideas. They also mined the 616 universe but to say they 'wholesale rejected' the Ultimates universe is just objectively wrong.

Of course they didn't make the Hulk a cannibal. That will get your movie a hard R rating faster than full frontal nudity with Tarantino writing the dialogue.

EDIT:
The Gangster Computer said:
So how many straight superheroes are left in DC anyway?
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Who fucking cares anymore?

DC and Marvel have been pulling this same stunt over and over for the better part of a decade now. It's just a stunt designed to stir up stupid out rage from the right and get some press about the "controversy" on Twitter. Conservatives and the anti-woke should stop taking the bait.

The perfect response to news like this in 2021 is to shrug and say "Didn't they stop making comic books in 1995 or something?"
 
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