#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Car Won't Crank]

I don't consider BD albums a floppy, aren't they mostly hardcovers? It's just another format making the thin american style obsolete. I have been in a comic shop in France and it looks more like a kid's bookstore full of hardcovers than an american style store with the newstand racks, boxes of back issues, toys, and junk merch.

I have some old Tintin books that are soft cover. They're UK export versions from way back so they're probably different from more recent BD.

 

[Captain Manning]

That's just Frog being a boomer western comic chauvinist, like nearly all red-blooded American comic fans of his generation were. It's one of his more understandable qualities. Back then (late 80s, early 90s) western comics were at a creative peak they've never been able to achieve before or since while manga consisted of a handful of relatively crude, poorly translated offerings traded among weird otakus at dingy conventions.

What he said is still objectively stupid.

Though I'll grant it's mainly stupid in hindsight, and requires some basic knowledge of the manga industry around the same time American comics were at their apex. Something few people deeply invested in western comics probably care to explore, as they pine for those halcyon days when they didn't have to go looking for alternatives. The truth is there was a lot a great manga in the 80s and 90s, and that doesn't change just because many Americans didn't experience it contemporaneously.

There are those of who believe that the manga industry has seen changes that haven't always been for the better. Though these changes have been considerably less destructive (read: almost not at all) in nature than what the U.S. comics industry has endured. The worst thing you can say about manga industry today is that there has been the emergence of genres not every old school person cares about. I, for one, couldn't GAF about a cooking manga, or "cute girls doing cute things." The important thing is that the manga industry hasn't shunned the old action genres and creative talent that old farts like me grew up with, as they attempt to expand their market share. It's not a purge or replacement. It's just casting a wider net through new IP. There's no problem with that.

It would be as if Spiderman and Superman were the same way they were in the 80s and 90s, and they let the current (mostly shit) crop of writers and artists work on their own new properties simultaneous to that. There would be some snickering on both sides, but not this huge culture war leading to the formation of an autistic counter-movement.

But really, the bigger fail here is that what FROG said is simply inconsistent with what he's said earlier. "I like lots of action and speed lines" and "Dragonball looks amateurish" are direct contradictions.

If FROG randomly picked up any manga today and said "this is cutesy shit for little girls," there is actually a fairly decent statistical probability he'd be right. But what does he do? He singles out Toriyama. The old guard who keeps the over-the-top hyper violent masculine manga alive? Brah. Come on. If anything, more people should be studying and trying to emulate his fight choreography. What's next? Claiming Kentaro Miura was a hack?

Actually, come to think of it.... Miura should have CG's utmost respect. He too published a seminal work that really "triggered the libs" in ways CG could only dream of, but also had the unfortunate habit of following a very uneven release schedule (which was largely forgiven, because people thought his work was that good). Apologies to Mirua's spirit for comparing him to CG in any way. Please don't haunt me.

 

[BlueKnight]

I refer to ALL Western superhero shit as either capeshit or capekino, it's less awkward sounding than saying superhero films/comics. Movies or comics. I didn't post the video either. Also, you said DB doesn't have good art.

No, I said specifically that it wasn't "great." It's perfectly serviceable but nothing about it is noteworthy and I certainly wouldn't say it is better than the top Western comics, FFS. If you want to sit there with a straight face and say that DBZ art is better than FROG's art, then you are on cocaine. It's not comparable, it's just different which isn't to say it's bad. DBZ art is cartoony and there's nothing wrong with that but it is far from the best art you can find in much of manga. You know what has amazing art? Love is War has amazing art and it's because the art in that manga serves the story and conveys the emotions with great effect. Ultimately, art criticism of sequential work requires more context than "art good/art bad" and often great draftsmanship that does not serve the story is in fact, bad art. I will concede to you that your so-called A.I.R. framework has merit because there are many many comics wherein the action is visually incoherent and absolutely useless as a result. This applies to all comics and manga. Look at early JoJo work and tell me that Araki had any idea what the fuck he was doing in fight scenes.

 

[Ike Aim]

On the other hand, he does side with Comicsgate's argument of "stop giving your time and money to people that hate you", like when he sided with Frog during the Zack Snyder debacle.

Speaking of... from last night's Tuesday Night's Main Event. Jeremy aware that he's on with one of his most prominent critics during the Snyder debacle and realizing Gary isn't there to offer succor and/or intimidate him into staying on-message. Another attempt at approximating humility / emotional honesty / personal growth from someone likely constitutionally incapable of any of those things intensifies. Also nice to see someone brave enough to pay $50 to give these guys the recognition for being arch conservatives and patrons of the arts - Cultural Commandos Fighting in the Funnest Way Possible™. "Hell. Yes." A case study in why their stock keeps rising despite them being demonstrably full of shit:

Also, from later that stream, in case anyone had any doubts as to Jeremy and Ryan's inevitable firm-but-fair approach to Rippaverse, he'd like to remind the audience that G+G integrity is beyond reproach in that regard and there will be no hand-holding or ass kissing like you had just been watching for the previous 90-minutes (and the preceding year). Hope Rippa is prepared for the clinic/bootcamp. Honesty, friendship, bias, and the Rippaverse:

 

[A Meme to Power]

I was one of his biggest supporters here back then Mr. Three-Month-Old account. My memory is fine.

It doesn't surprise me you would have been - it seems the most stupid and obsessed of his orbitors are the ones who used to be fans. But you are repeating exactly the same shit that was said then and pretending its insightful material, so I think your reasoning is flawed and your emotions about frog have controlled your opinion rather than any memory or thinking. Instead you've exactly parroted the same anti-cg people who were all absolutely sure Frog was done before rekt planet was released, and for exactly the same reasons - emotional incontinence.

Speaking of... from last night's Tuesday Night's Main Event. Jeremy aware that he's on with one of his most prominent critics during the Snyder debacle and realizing Gary isn't there to offer succor and/or intimidate him into staying on-message. Another attempt at approximating humility / emotional honesty / personal growth from someone likely constitutionally incapable of any of those things intensifies. Also nice to see someone brave enough to pay $50 to give these guys the recognition for being arch conservatives and patrons of the arts - Cultural Commandos Fighting in the Funnest Way Possible™. "Hell. Yes." A case study in why their stock keep rising despite them being demonstrably full of shit:


Also, from later that stream, in case anyone had any doubts as to Jeremy and Ryan's inevitable firm-but-fair approach to Rippaverse, he'd like to remind the audience that G+G integrity is beyond reproach in that regard and there will be no hand-holding or ass kissing like you had just been watching for the previous 90-minutes (and the preceding year). Hope Rippa is prepared for the clinic/bootcamp. Honesty, friendship, bias, and the Rippaverse:

The stream is down now (I think frog made a joke about gunning down asians in response to snyder's insult) but if I recall correctly after the snyder shit went down Rippa went on Frogs stream and they both roasted Jeremy and G+G for being spineless losers together until Jeremy came on to 'explain himself'. I don't think anything Jeremy does by not fighting with people is growth - its the same non confrontational decision making that had him sucking Snyder off after snyder called him a racist - he was too afraid to make any response because he was more worried about his reputation than standing up for himself. Same shit here. It's not growth - it's just not fighting with the guy who just made a million dollars and has a major name, who Griggs has been sucking up to any time he sees for quite a while.

 

[Captain Manning]

Also, from later that stream, in case anyone had any doubts as to Jeremy and Ryan's inevitable firm-but-fair approach to Rippaverse, he'd like to remind the audience that G+G integrity is beyond reproach in that regard and there will be no hand-holding or ass kissing like you had just been watching for the previous 90-minutes (and the preceding year).

Jeremy ain't gonna start shit. He needs allies on the right. He'll kiss Rippa's ass all day long. He's completely buckbroken on that front after the Snyder fiasco.

@Mister Dongs is right. The probably is much higher that Rippa War I will start over some damn fool thing in the balkans a CG retard who forgot to take his medication that day. I notice a lot of people are betting on Malin being our Gavrilo Princip. I can't say that's unrealistic.

 

[The Coon]

@Mister Dongs is right. The probably is much higher that Rippa War I will start over some damn fool thing in the balkans a CG retard who forgot to take his medication that day. I notice a lot of people are betting on Malin being our Gavrilo Princip. I can't say that's unrealistic.

My money is on @TheCosmicWarrior. He is sucking that Rippa dick right now, but no one has ever accused JDA of being loyal. How many times has he switched back and forth from CG to Anti-CG?

Also, love the WW1 analogy.

 

[Ike Aim]

I don't think anything Jeremy does by not fighting with people is growth - its the same non confrontational decision making that had him sucking Snyder off after snyder called him a racist - he was too afraid to make any response because he was more worried about his reputation than standing up for himself. Same shit here. It's not growth - it's just not fighting with the guy who just made a million dollars and has a major name, who Griggs has been sucking up to any time he sees for quite a while.

The "growth" bit is meant as sarcasm. Jeremy has been flip-flopping and spinning the Snyder affair for some time, depending on who he's on with and the context of the discussion.

Jeremy ain't gonna start shit. He needs allies on the right. He'll kiss Rippa's ass all day long. He's completely buckbroken on that front after the Snyder fiasco.

@Mister Dongs is right. The probably is much higher that Rippa War I will start over some damn fool thing in the balkans a CG retard who forgot to take his medication that day. I notice a lot of people are betting on Malin being our Gavrilo Princip. I can't say that's unrealistic.

Knowing how this shit goes down, things could go from Flowers on the Wall to real fuckin' far from ok in an instant. Echoes of the Great War, indeed.

 

[Mister Dongs]

What he said is still objectively stupid.

Though I'll grant it's mainly stupid in hindsight, and requires some basic knowledge of the manga industry around the same time American comics were at their apex. Something few people deeply invested in western comics probably care to explore, as they pine for those halcyon days when they didn't have to go looking for alternatives. The truth is there was a lot a great manga in the 80s and 90s, and that doesn't change just because many Americans didn't experience it contemporaneously.

You're right, I misspoke. When I said "manga was an obscure underground scene at the time", I meant to say "manga as known by western audiences". As you say, there was plenty of classics coming out of Japan in the 80s and 90s, but before the internet became ubiquitous, the West's exposure to it was bootlegs and unofficial translations traded among diehard fans. Back in the 90s Todd MacFarlane was lisping introductions to Spawn on HBO in a gay goth castle soundstage while anime was the province of the weird high school kids who traded VHS cassettes after lunch. Times change.

 

[Stoneheart]

I notice a lot of people are betting on Malin being our Gavrilo Princip. I can't say that's unrealistic.

font be such a normie nerd...
he will go full lorgar on the frog emperor...

 

[Potatoherder]

I am super interested in how fast the turnaround for the next book will be. This campaign ends in September and the books have been printed since i think Feb. The second book is likely drawn and could easily be at the printers by now. That means a second campaign in October/November isn't out of the question. Even if it gets pushed back to early 2023 that turnaround should really get some noggins joggin inside of CG.

Rippa has the normie audience that CG wants to expand into and setting expectations of getting a book within months and not years will close that door.

 

[Miniluv]

The visual language used between manga artists and readers where a few well placed lines can efficiently communicate complex shapes and effects lost on someone who's only into old American comics.

Yeah that wasn't always the case, but capeshit dumped a lot of its own visual language like sound effects and action lines in the early 00s under Quesada and Didio. The reasoning behind it was that it'd make the comics look "more mature and adult" and was part of a ongoing initiative to make comics look more like cinematic storyboards. In practice this led to a deep decline where "crimefighting" took on the form of shitty crime procedurals, sperging abut Bush and action itself becoming the perfunctory setup for the post-fight zesty one-liner.

I find a lot of manga styles to be a refreshing change of visual pace from the over-rendering of Western comics. I never understood why an artist would spend hours on a single establishing shot, meticulously inking every leaf on a tree in a panel that the average reader would spend a few seconds looking at. When I see old school art by guys like Alex Toth and Moebius, I'm reminded that Western comic art used to be able to communicate simply and effectively without having to get into such ridiculous detail in lieu of telling a story visually.

Spoiler: Comic art sperging

It's strange because a lot of that visual shorthand in old American comics was cultivated because of deadlines and the insane workload on artists. Guys were drawing like 30 pages or more a month if they were only drawing one book, to say nothing of people like Kirby drawing multiple books a month and they were on extremely tight schedules. Old school guys were cranking shit out like crazy and even if some of it got a little formulaic, it helped develop the entire look and feel of American comics for decades. Even something like costume designs were simple out of necessity and artists for decades could draw something like The Flash's costume from their head without using reference.

In the 90s, the styles shifted and guys like Jim Lee wanted to over-render everything and put crosshatching all over the place and fill each and every panel with extraordinary detail. A lot of artists did this, but I mention Jim Lee primarily because he was responsible for the horrendous costume designs of the New 52, which took the classic, easy to draw costumes and added Star Trek TNG collars and these weird superfluous lines all over every contour of the characters. It's a crime that a professional comic artist would have to use a reference to draw Superman's costume. These changes happen at the expense of simple, clean storytelling and easy to follow action. It became absolutely boring

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

Speaking of Just Some Guy, what the fuck happened to him? He used to be my favorite but 2020 broke him and he started to saying stupid shit,

Well….he got really pissy when the whole grooming and Don’t Say Gay bill fiasco popped up, and he accused anyone who was against the gay mafia grooming their children and engaging in questionable [pedophilic] behavior bigoted. He did say at one point that he was bisexual, so I think this is personal for him, but the problem is that he’s lying his ass off of certain situations and coping so hard that any of this is happening.

 

[FROG]

What he said is still objectively stupid.

Though I'll grant it's mainly stupid in hindsight, and requires some basic knowledge of the manga industry around the same time American comics were at their apex. Something few people deeply invested in western comics probably care to explore, as they pine for those halcyon days when they didn't have to go looking for alternatives. The truth is there was a lot a great manga in the 80s and 90s, and that doesn't change just because many Americans didn't experience it contemporaneously.

There are those of who believe that the manga industry has seen changes that haven't always been for the better. Though these changes have been considerably less destructive (read: almost not at all) in nature than what the U.S. comics industry has endured. The worst thing you can say about manga industry today is that there has been the emergence of genres not every old school person cares about. I, for one, couldn't GAF about a cooking manga, or "cute girls doing cute things." The important thing is that the manga industry hasn't shunned the old action genres and creative talent that old farts like me grew up with, as they attempt to expand their market share. It's not a purge or replacement. It's just casting a wider net through new IP. There's no problem with that.

It would be as if Spiderman and Superman were the same way they were in the 80s and 90s, and they let the current (mostly shit) crop of writers and artists work on their own new properties simultaneous to that. There would be some snickering on both sides, but not this huge culture war leading to the formation of an autistic counter-movement.

But really, the bigger fail here is that what FROG said is simply inconsistent with what he's said earlier. "I like lots of action and speed lines" and "Dragonball looks amateurish" are direct contradictions.

If FROG randomly picked up any manga today and said "this is cutesy shit for little girls," there is actually a fairly decent statistical probability he'd be right. But what does he do? He singles out Toriyama. The old guard who keeps the over-the-top hyper violent masculine manga alive? Brah. Come on. If anything, more people should be studying and trying to emulate his fight choreography. What's next? Claiming Kentaro Miura was a hack?

Actually, come to think of it.... Miura should have CG's utmost respect. He too published a seminal work that really "triggered the libs" in ways CG could only dream of, but also had the unfortunate habit of following a very uneven release schedule (which was largely forgiven, because people thought his work was that good). Apologies to Mirua's spirit for comparing him to CG in any way. Please don't haunt me.

Okay, settle down, weebs.

All of this comes from me muttering about an image of a close up headshot of some DragonBall Z character that I'm pretty sure was fan art, not the work of Mirua. When I was doing conventions and did portfolio reviews, I'd have to leaf through dozens of portfolios of tracings of that stuff, and I didn't enjoy it. The way he constructs heads, eyes, noses, mouths...it looks wrong to my Western eye. The fan art... it's usually unbearable. But I'm positive that in the context of the entire actual work, it becomes endearing.

I bought a bunch of Hong Kong comics in NYC twenty five years ago that contained very interesting work in building up swirling dust clouds and energy signatures using speed line FX, and I thought it was pretty cool. I tried to bring it to my work on IMPULSE. It definitely made my inker work harder.

 

[Headshotmaster138]

Okay, settle down, weebs.

All of this comes from me muttering about an image of a close up headshot of some DragonBall Z character that I'm pretty sure was fan art, not the work of Mirua. When I was doing conventions and did portfolio reviews, I'd have to leaf through dozens of portfolios of tracings of that stuff, and I didn't enjoy it. The way he constructs heads, eyes, noses, mouths...it looks wrong to my Western eye. The fan art... it's usually unbearable. But I'm positive that in the context of the entire actual work, it becomes endearing.

I bought a bunch of Hong Kong comics in NYC twenty five years ago that contained very interesting work in building up swirling dust clouds and energy signatures using speed line FX, and I thought it was pretty cool. I tried to bring it to my work on IMPULSE. It definitely made my inker work harder.

The King has arrived.

 

[Rodeo Roadrunner]

Speaking of... from last night's Tuesday Night's Main Event. Jeremy aware that he's on with one of his most prominent critics during the Snyder debacle and realizing Gary isn't there to offer succor and/or intimidate him into staying on-message. Another attempt at approximating humility / emotional honesty / personal growth from someone likely constitutionally incapable of any of those things intensifies. Also nice to see someone brave enough to pay $50 to give these guys the recognition for being arch conservatives and patrons of the arts - Cultural Commandos Fighting in the Funnest Way Possible™. "Hell. Yes." A case study in why their stock keeps rising despite them being demonstrably full of shit:

'Patrons of the arts'. What a fucking joke, none of these people care about 'the arts', they watch and talk about the lowest tier media possible. Its like claiming you are into gastronomy and all you eat is fast food. It honestly makes me MATI that there are people who watch this and genuinely think that capeshit and pop culture movies are 'the arts'.

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

Which cover of Rippaverse 1 is the best cover and why is it cover b?

 

[FluffyJackal]

I have some old Tintin books that are soft cover. They're UK export versions from way back so they're probably different from more recent BD.

I bought some time ago several second hand 60s-till-90s Asterix and Lucky Luke BD; the book covers are floppy but made out of cardboard kind of like the one cereal boxes are made of.

But really, the bigger fail here is that what FROG said is simply inconsistent with what he's said earlier. "I like lots of action and speed lines" and "Dragonball looks amateurish" are direct contradictions.

Is it though? Saying he likes lots of lines doesn´t necessarily mean he will accept anything that includes them regardless of style, quality or other attributes.

 

[TheMadAutist]

Which cover of Rippaverse 1 is the best cover and why is it cover b?

Cover B has an error on it...

 

[The Ghost of CG Past]

@The Ghost of CG Past WordNerd this is your moment

View attachment 3487145
(here for those interested)

Inspired by Tupac. Men can make fun of eachother. And he does look like Kimbo Slice even if he does have a million dollars in sales.

I believe the thread was talking about supporting indie, which I have been a backer since before comicsgate. He deflected because he is just getting into independent comics now, and it proved my point. Thanks for your interest Dongs, love you too, sugar.

My speculation now turns to what the cope is gonna be.

By way of example, @FROG has pooh-poohed Kamen America because he doesn't like anime, and none of their campaigns have made as much as the top CG earners. The former makes him sound like a sour boomer (IMO), while the latter point is objectively correct.

But what do you do with Rippa?

"Well, it doesn't have a cybernetic frog, and he's not on CG branded streams watching skanks pee! How can he possibly save western civilization?"


Wouldn't WordNerd have to make nice with Ethan and rejoin CG first?

Honestly, with this crew, the possibilities are endless. Perhaps JDA will try to involve himself in this by claiming that it's all an elaborate attempt by Rippa (who is secretly an SJW) to persecute him because he's FROG's "top lieutenant," and the only hope to save Comicsgate now is to grant Vito Gesualdi emergency membership. Whereupon, all will be browbeaten into throwing their support behind Vito's magnum opus: "Lolita Cuties: Everybody Loves Little Girls - Volume 1." Artwork will be by Shadman.

Speaking of, JDA is on Rekieta right now. If anybody gives a shit.

I like Nick Rekieta, but that is the only mention out of this comment.

I'm not interested in going back into that fold. I can produce great content, and originally in my debut with Liam, Bancroft, Cider, Ody, I offered to help CG make better books if it was needed. That door is closed now. I think people get the wrong idea about me. I'm not a desperate bitch. I won't come in on hands and knees, IF I EVER go back to CG, it would have to smarten the fuck up and I would take a throne. Non Negotiable.

I would like to think, with all of the hyping and supporting @FROG has done, that Malin will hold his tongue and not immediately go after Rippa, but as we know, Malin is a master diplomat.

I do think part of the reason FNT and G+G crew are hyping up this book so much, while effectively ignoring CG, is Rippa is someone they can call part of 'their team'. Which means, now when asked what FNT and G+G are actually doing in the 'culture war', they can point to Rippaverse. They couldn't do that with CG, since CG effectively existed before them and was never controlled by the main dudes over there.

But maybe I am reading way to much drama into these internet clowns. The real interesting thing in the future will be how Gabe Eltaeb handles this, as if/when Rippa disavows CG and burns that bridge, will Gabe pick a side, or will he still try and walk the line? I think the only reason Anna has managed to do so is because she is some of the best eye candy in either group, and she attracts a lot of simps.

All interesting points, but Malin is not a master diplomat. He is a master dipshit lol.

Guy refused my invite to the drawstream, and he tells all his fans he was discovered by Image to get Liefeld points but he and I came from the same place: Digital Webbing.
His release was DW #1 (Summer Release) and was not spectacular work from what I hear if you can find a copy. Original writer owns the rights to the work. Not Image camp, we came from the HTML trench like many others in comics.