#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[NasserRabadi13]

They are gay as fuck but they get top ratings on TV. Preston might pull this off and creators who never had a hope of making $2000 getting some exposure, experience and maybe a project of the ground isn't a rip off.

It would be a rip off to anyone with some established cred but that's not who it's for.

Ethan's better off doing it his way. If he tried to do "American Idol" in comics it would get political in a hurry and degenerate into another war within his fandom.

I hope he changes his mind and gives it a try.




Joe is a tool. I loved that Priest made him so uncomfortable for doing that. Joe's been hiring or advocating for hiring on identity from the start. Priest made him look the fool and made him backtrack on it.

Good stuff.


Tim Lim embarrassed Ethan on stream by calling him out on a lie ("Transcripts motherfucker"). That's why WarCampaign went after him and it's why Ethan sat back and cheered.

Doug Ernst literally did nothing to upset Ethan and E still played passive aggressive gayops games with whoever the Shadow King is. What upset Ethan about Doug is that Doug refused to play his game. Watch their one on one stream if you doubt me. Oh, and he hired unpersoned artists like Lim and Brett Smith.

Vox and JDA were trying to position themselves as players and needed to be pushed out to maintain hegemony or at least that was what it looked like. CG is a small sandbox after all.

Doug loved to argue on stream (not a yes man like literally everyone on Ethan's streams today) and has had a career that would make most creators green with envy let alone a narcissist like Frog. Ethan still goes on and on comparing himself and his campaigns to Doug. When Tennaple went to bat against Ethan's fan club for a nobody like Ashworth his number was up with Ethan. Frog pretended he didn't see it and sat back while his troll squad went to work. Ideology never entered the equation until Doug was gone and Ethan wanted to take a swipe at him for how he left.

And Mike simply wouldn't do as he was told like Malin, Cecil, Bryce and the rest. Mike was a plenty entertaining foil on stream but he's twice the artist Ethan is and 3 times or more the artist Malin is. Superior talent and noncompliant behavior are not endearing to a megalomaniac with a Roman Empire to build. Christians get fed to the lions. Ask Caligula.

The ideological stuff was the excuse, not the reason in all cases.

Ethan's an narcissist. Choosing toppings on his pizza is an ego driven decision.


The fact that these guys have zero problem with and in are actually promoting Meyer's last two projects based on current events and politics means there is nothing "genuine" about those beliefs.

Those "beliefs" were predicated on Ethan's jealousy of Lim's success with Thump when he wasn't sure how well his own project would do.

CG wasn't about taking politics out of comics until Ethan said so. Have a look at Clint's book. Political. Lonestar #1. Political. Deathsworn and Doc Alpha both look political. Red Rooster is social commentary. Political.

CG was pissed off because Marvel wants to make Captain America a Nazi, Spider-Man antifa and Thor a milkmaid. No one was saying the whole medium needed to step away from politics until Ethan got insecure about Lim's best selling bunny book. There's a difference between not wanting to be called a Nazi by whoever is writing Batman and saying indy artist should keep their views to themselves. No one wishes Alan Moore had kept Watchmen to himself.

Ethan's retarded.

I agree the pitching competitions are dumb. It might make for mild entertainment depending on how you present it on a stream or video, but I could not think of anything less appealing than competing against other people for $2,000. Then if you run a contest everyone's always begging in private, and in public it becomes a popularity contest (at least from what I've seen).

If I had an extra $2,000 to give away, I think it would be better off donated to an active campaign that's struggling rather than funding a small part of a book that might not ever fund.

 

[Newman's Own]

Those TV talent shows are a scam too. Without getting too autistic here if you read the contract they basically own your act and any rights you have to it once you appear.
With other shows the contestants or subjects are compensated for their appearance. People earn thousands (or tens of thousands) per episode. Just look at the Teen Mom crowd. You don't drive a Navigator and live in a big house with no job other than being a clown on TV for a reason.
Even shows like Shark Tank are a giant commercial if you actually have a product to sell and don't get a deal.
With "art contests" it requires days of work for nothing in return. TUG recently held an "art contest" asking for free commissions in exchange for TUGbux like a $100 grand prize everyone else just gives TUG free art.
Imagine a job where your interview required you to work a full 8 hour shift and you compete against every other person working for free and if you "win" you get paid, otherwise thanks for the day of labor which they can sell anything you did during that day for full price.
Preston is asking people to work for exposure, which they get by him arguing with Ethan over twitter.
Contests are extremely gay. Unless its a drawing contest where you can then sell the art on your own store (for TUG "OC" drawings thats out the window) you're just wasting your time.
I called it retarded when TUG did it and I'm calling it retarded when Preston does it. Writing a script shouldn't be free unless you're getting the art for free.

They're amateurs not pros. That's just the reality of being an artist. Standup comedians work for free until they are good enough or lucky enough to get paid.

Fighters wrestle or do karate or whatever. They pay to train and fight for free until they go pro and then they make less than they spend until their talent is exposed and they're good enough to get a call from Sean Shelby. Then maybe they get to fight for peanuts on "Contender Series" or put their lives on display on TUF. The minority get contracts with the UFC but everyone of them competes to get every opportunity before they get a decent pay check. No one owes them the opportunity.

Singers, musicians, artists, writers, rappers. Football, hockey, baseball and so on.

That's reality when there are one thousand applicants for every paying placement.

Jim Owsley worked as an unpaid intern before he got a job at Marvel. Did Marvel take advantage of him? Maybe. Did they give him an opportunity to learn grow and get much needed exposure? Absolutely. Now he's Christopher Priest a respected journeyman with a 4 decade career in comics.

If someone isn't willing to do the work for free until they are good enough and/or well known enough to command money for their work then someone else is and that someone else deserves it more because they are willing to sacrifice to reach a goal in a way that helps separate the wheat from the chaff.

Is the opportunity for exposure or the cash prize worth it in Preston's case? Yes to some. No to others but it's up to each individual to figure it out and decide what they are willing to sacrifice. Exposure is opportunity.

Is it fair? It doesn't matter. It's reality. If you want the really cool job you're going to have to do it for free until someone decides you're worth paying for it.

Spoiler: Ask Dave Chappelle if he regrets the work he did for free or Norm MacDonald if he regrets going on Star Search.

"Chappelle was featured in a montage of random people telling a joke in the first episode of ABC's America's Funniest People, airing on September 13, 1990. Chappelle moved to New York City to pursue a career as a comedian. He performed at Harlem's famed Apollo Theater in front of the infamous "Amateur Night" audience, but he was booed off stage. Chappelle described the experience as the moment that gave him the courage to continue his show business aspirations.[12] He quickly made a name for himself on the New York comedy circuit, even performing in the city's parks."

" Macdonald's first performances in comedy were at stand-up clubs in Ottawa, regularly appearing on amateur nights at Yuk Yuk's in 1985. Following an appearance at the 1986 Just For Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal, he was heralded by the Montreal Gazette as, "One of this country's hottest comics." By 1990 he would perform as a contestant on Star Search. He was hired as a writer for the Roseanne television sitcom for the 1992-93 season before quitting to join SNL. "

If it was easy to get paid for doing what you love everybody would be doing what they love.

Spoiler: And anyway...

These writers were going to write something for free anyway. This is an opportunity to get some small recognition and small payment for something that would otherwise get neither.

That's life.

 

[sKr0n]

Priest's a great writer.

But there is no way they'd give him editorial control of a Milestone reboot. Priest's politics would take the whole thing off narrative in a hurry.

Also, Priest has been quite clear about not wanting to write characters just because they are black. I doubt he'd be interested in running an entire line built on the idea of black writers writing black characters just because they are black.

I think that was more a litmus test, during his Deathstroke run he used quite a few black characters and fleshed them out, he obviously wants to work with them but he does not want to be put on a book with a black main character who is C tier or lower sales wise. Which given his track record with the "Priest curse" was the smartest thing he could do, imagine if he agreed to a Cyborg series instead of Deathstroke, I don't see it lasting half as long even if it was better.

Also I doubt we would see a story like Chicago or Q&W coming out of Nu-Milestone but a man can dream.

 

[KingofNothing]

I think that was more a litmus test, during his Deathstroke run he used quite a few black characters and fleshed them out, he obviously wants to work with them but he does not want to be put on a book with a black main character who is C tier or lower sales wise. Which given his track record with the "Priest curse" was the smartest thing he could do, imagine if he agreed to a Cyborg series instead of Deathstroke, I don't see it lasting half as long even if it was better.

Also I doubt we would see a story like Chicago or Q&W coming out of Nu-Milestone but a man can dream.

I believe the key difference there is in the choosing to add and write black characters because you want to and being told to write black characters because you have the same tan. One is fun, the other is insulting.

 

[Newman's Own]

I think that was more a litmus test, during his Deathstroke run he used quite a few black characters and fleshed them out, he obviously wants to work with them but he does not want to be put on a book with a black main character who is C tier or lower sales wise.

Owsley has been clear that he does not want to write black characters because he doesn't want to be a "black writer" he considers it a step down to write a black character of any tier ifhe's being picked for his skin color.

Timestamped.

I believe the key difference there is in the choosing to add and write black characters because you want to and being told to write black characters because you have the same tan. One is fun, the other is insulting.

DING!!!!

 

[jspit]

Long replies, long answers.

Tim Lim embarrassed Ethan on stream by calling him out on a lie ("Transcripts motherfucker"). That's why WarCampaign went after him and it's why Ethan sat back and cheered.

We will never see eye to eye on that. It was embarrassing and cow worthy. He went behind someones back, gossiped, and then his 'receipts' was Frog saying when asked that he didn't think Trump comics fit into his view of "comicsgate" whatever the hell that means.

Doug Ernst literally did nothing to upset Ethan and E still played passive aggressive gayops games with whoever the Shadow King is. What upset Ethan about Doug is that Doug refused to play his game. Watch their one on one stream if you doubt me. Oh, and he hired unpersoned artists like Lim and Brett Smith.

I like Doug Ernst, but Ernst didn't want to choose a side and why should he? Tim Lim has held one bitchy grudge and Frog has too. Petty ass shit Doug shouldn't and doesn't have to involve himself with it. Others have clued me in that Lim's quieted down, good for him. I love nothing more than all these people shutting the hell up and doing their art.

Vox and JDA were trying to position themselves as players and needed to be pushed out to maintain hegemony or at least that was what it looked like. CG is a small sandbox after all.

Vox Day is legitimately an ass. He wound up sabotaging the sad puppies attempt to save literature due to his ego. No one wants to be branded with his Alt Right flirtations.

Ethan still goes on and on comparing himself and his campaigns to Doug. When Tennaple went to bat against Ethan's fan club for a nobody like Ashworth his number was up with Ethan. Frog pretended he didn't see it and sat back while his troll squad went to work. Ideology never entered the equation until Doug was gone and Ethan wanted to take a swipe at him for how he left.

@FROG and Wormie have a weird homoerotic relationship. I'm seeing Tennaple begin to move forward, but still. They're weird about one another. It bears repeating. None of these people care about the people here, unless you happen to be an alt for one of them or their groups. They are adults, despite how they act. White knighting for E-thots is the same whether they are hot twenty something women or disgusting fifty something bearded men.

The ideological stuff was the excuse, not the reason in all cases.

Don't underestimate the tism. People justify themselves by this shit. Its not easy to disentangle so why bother. Regardless of whether @FROG and co believe his stated principles, they're still dumb.

The fact that these guys have zero problem with and in are actually promoting Meyer's last two projects based on current events and politics means there is nothing "genuine" about those beliefs.

Richard's problem is politics. Not sure about the virus comic or the other one. They don't really sound political, but topical. But hell, I've always thought he took things too far. I don't want politics in Batman or Superman. If you want political comics fine, just don't get butt hurt when they don't sell as well as non-partisan superhero books.

 

[sKr0n]

I believe the key difference there is in the choosing to add and write black characters because you want to and being told to write black characters because you have the same tan. One is fun, the other is insulting.

100%,but what I am saying is that when Priest came back to comics he admitted to not keeping up to date with characters etc, so when he added Kid Flash and Powergirl to Deathstroke's team he would have had very little to no idea about these characters outside of them being black and replacing white heroes, which I don't think was a coincidence, he clearly wanted to work on them and make them more than "new black version of x", but being forced to do so is both insulting and not good for your career as it puts you in a niche lane of c-listers which is the insidious aspect I wanted to highlight. I just wanted to point out that he had gotten what he wanted of not being pigeon holed and he wrote black characters and created some too.

 

[Neko GF]

@Mister Dongs Alazmat Arts Flims made a video expressing how not mad he is about your post about his shit:

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IakmoKZmbI
Archive (720p):

 

[CapeKnight]

@Mister Dongs Alazmat Arts Flims made a video expressing how not mad he is about your post about his shit:

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IakmoKZmbI
Archive (720p):
View attachment 1426023

Lol, absolute nobody using KiwiFarms as victimization narrative by using the word "targeted" to grift and do promotion for his book.

Claims phone recording is a "stylistic choice". Is this another one of those "I'm not stealing, I'm paying an homage" arguments?

Adam Post used the "stylistic choice" argument, when it's clear it isn't, now this retard thinks he'll use it too.

@Mister Dongs you're becoming more and more famous apparently, so much so that you were invited again, and in a real desperate attempt by Liam Gray when he saw you in the chat in his latest livestream, I would advise you to not go on anyone's livestream just because they all seem to think "I get Mister Dongs = KiwiFarms is on my side = I will never be fucked with".

This Alamazat guy can't speak straight without stuttering like a moron and is totally not mad and not trying to grift or make content like Dork Grift did when he thought he had the intellectual capacity to even have a valid point on that KiwiFarms video he made.

Do none of these retards understand KiwiFarms is more than just the CG thread? These guys are like Gollum, obsessing over one thread.

Must be an absolute slow day in their lives if they think the fact that one of us took notice of them makes them internet famous, somehow. Although, to be fair, Eric Van Sciver has been having a shit ton of slow days himself, like when he inserted himself into the Quartering/John Boyega fight to get a livestream outta that.

 

[Mister Dongs]

CG wasn't about taking politics out of comics until Ethan said so. Have a look at Clint's book. Political. Lonestar #1. Political. Deathsworn and Doc Alpha both look political. Red Rooster is social commentary. Political.

CG was pissed off because Marvel wants to make Captain America a Nazi, Spider-Man antifa and Thor a milkmaid. No one was saying the whole medium needed to step away from politics until Ethan got insecure about Lim's best selling bunny book

There are two possible reactions to making something like making Captain America a Nazi - one is a reactionary position where you would create extreme right-wing content in reaction to Marvel's radical left-wing content. Vox Day, JDA and to a lesser extent Tim Lim and Mike Miller operated under this conception of CG. Frog, Zack and many of the other emigres from the pro circuit believed that the establishment comic industry was intrinsically flawed and that the solution was proving a superior method of selling and marketing creator owned properties. These are mutually exclusive positions but both valid extrapolations of the formative events of Comicsgate; just because the conflicts didn't start immediately does not mean that the conflicts did not exist.

Now, if two parties don't share common purpose it doesn't mean that they're going to fight right away, they can still be friends or work together in mutually beneficial relationships (or form groups based on tribal assocation). This is how a lot of the lower-minded people in Comicsgate operate by default. But loyalty networks not united in ideals have an inherent size limitation (only so many people can be your friend at a time) and easily collapse in a pile of petty bitching, personal difference and gayops, as you describe.

@Mister Dongs Alazmat Arts Flims made a video expressing how not mad he is about your post about his shit

Like the Pacific Island savage banging coconuts together in the hope that the sky will rain food rations, this monkey has seen people monetize beefing online and is doing his best to mimic what he dimly comprehends in the hope that customers will materialize.

 

[Detrogen]

I haven’t seen it’s mentioned here, but Tom King made an ass of himself throwing a shitfit over Lois & Clark actor Dean Cain saying “I wouldn’t be allowed to say ‘Truth, Justice, and the American way today” (fun fact, they wouldn’t have Superman say the phrase in full in both Superman Returns and Smallville). He even went so far as to use his military service as a cudgel to prove himself more morally correct (always a good look). I’ve seen King do some beta cuck shit before but this is probably the most egregious thing I’ve seen him do.






Anyway, I primarily bring this up because the primary target of my usual autism, Chris of Comic Tropes, naturally sided with Tom King in the form of an outdated normie meme.

 

[Twinkletard]

I haven’t seen it’s mentioned here, but Tom King made an ass of himself throwing a shitfit over Lois & Clark actor Dean Cain saying “I wouldn’t be allowed to say ‘Truth, Justice, and the American way today” (fun fact, they wouldn’t have Superman say the phrase in full in both Superman Returns and Smallville). He even went so far as to use his military service as a cudgel to prove himself more morally correct (always a good look). I’ve seen King do some beta cuck shit before but this is probably the most egregious thing I’ve seen him do.

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Anyway, I primarily bring this up because the primary target of my usual autism, Chris of Comic Tropes, naturally sided with Tom King in the form of an outdated normie meme.

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Just watched zak's vid on this, and I've lost any respect for King that I might have had (even how minute it may have been). The dude should just stay in his lane and write shit books no one cares about. Failing at dunking on C-list actors like that was pretty bad.

 

[Water-T]

Christopher Priest and Dwayne McDuffie are legends because they wrote black CHARACTERS, unlike wannabes like Black Christmas and Jamal "Now I Have A Middle Name To Let You Know How Black I Am" Igle, who write BLACK characters.

 

[Detrogen]

Just watched zak's vid on this, and I've lost any respect for King that I might have had (even how minute it may have been). The dude should just stay in his lane and write shit books no one cares about. Failing at dunking on C-list actors like that was pretty bad.

Yeah, in general I’ve liked King up to this point as his writing can occasionally be excellent and, while he’s a basic bitch never-Trump sperg, he usually doesn’t lash out at people. But in this instance he decided not only to lash out like a total fucking tool, but decided that his military service places him morally above people he’s never met (which likely feeds into his bog-standard liberal narcissism) and thinks he gets to use that as an argument against people.

I didn’t know Zack made a vid on it so I’ll have to check it out. I’ve been slacking on the YouTube game.

 

[Twinkletard]

Man, kenneth rocafort is cg

 

[Newman's Own]

There are two possible reactions to making something like making Captain America a Nazi - one is a reactionary position where you would create extreme right-wing content in reaction to Marvel's radical left-wing content. Vox Day, JDA and to a lesser extent Tim Lim and Mike Miller operated under this conception of CG. Frog, Zack and many of the other emigres from the pro circuit believed that the establishment comic industry was intrinsically flawed and that the solution was proving a superior method of selling and marketing creator owned properties. These are mutually exclusive positions but both valid extrapolations of the formative events of Comicsgate; just because the conflicts didn't start immediately does not mean that the conflicts did not exist.

Now, if two parties don't share common purpose it doesn't mean that they're going to fight right away, they can still be friends or work together in mutually beneficial relationships (or form groups based on tribal assocation). This is how a lot of the lower-minded people in Comicsgate operate by default. But loyalty networks not united in ideals have an inherent size limitation (only so many people can be your friend at a time) and easily collapse in a pile of petty bitching, personal difference and gayops, as you describe.

Tim Lim made Thump before anyone cared about ComicsGate. He joined because he thought he'd be among fellow travelers. That proved not to be the case when he encountered Ethan who is less a conservative or even an anti-SJW and more an opportunist and a shit lord. Mike simply figured that if he couldn't work for DC he'd write comics with the messaging he liked instead of drawing comics with the messaging they like. I guess you could call that a reaction but I'd disagree in this instance. Vox is a charlatan who wanted to co-opt and capitalize on the CG movement (that's Ethan's job so he destroyed Vox). Vox wasn't really reacting to woke mainstream comics so much as he was recognizing the movements reaction as a potential vehicle for advancing his agenda. A small distinction but relevant.

JDA is just a tool and a grifter.

Ethan's rebuke of political comics were a result of his animus for Tim Lim, not his animus for politics in comics. Ethan was looking for an excuse to get rid of Lim and the politics in comics angle while imperfect was the available excuse. (no one is mad that The Dark Knight Returns was political. They were pissed that leftist were casting Trump as MODOK, Cap as Hitler and Thor as a split tail. Nobody was complaining that indies shouldn't do politics if they felt like it with their own IP's except Ethan)

I'm sure that Ethan genuinely doesn't like political comics but I'm also quite sure he doesn't give a fuck if anyone wants to be political with their own properties. We don't hear Ethan complaining about progressive comics like Saga or radical fem garbage like Bitch Planet.

As to loyalty networks, that was 100% Ethan's deal. He nurtured a band of low IQ spergs specializing in purity tests and proclamations of loyalty specifically because he liked the idea of his own personal loyalty network. I think Malin and Cecil went along because they wanted to keep their toast buttered. At least until recent events.

Spoiler: Autistic shit about tribe size and brain capacity.

Your reference to Dunbar's number is relevant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number Ethan's tribe is arguably much bigger than 250 but the number of people he regularly interacts with from his tribe (the real sycophants and hangers on and co-creators) would not surprise me if it was in that neighborhood. Perhaps Ethan has been ejecting undesirables as his network approaches Dunbar's # out of instinct. After all, why keep 'problematic' people in your network if they can be replaced with more compliant people like Micah, Friended and Post especially if you have Ethan's egocentric predilections? (You and I know the answer but we aren't Caesars)

Perhaps Ethan was simply making room in his neocortex to accommodate tribe members more suited to his preference for compliance and flattery. I'd say compliance and flattery would hold much more value to the subject than ideological alignment given Ethan's opportunistic and fickle approach to political alignment.

"I'm against cancel culture." but... "Is EWJ anti-gay?" "Cancel James Gunn" "Cancel Mike"
"I'm a conservative but I support the left wing intersectional identitarianism of the Pride movement"

Ethan values loyalty. I don't think he gives a fuck about the politics beyond their pragmatic utitlity.

I expect if Ethan was less focused on egoistic tribal elements like loyalty and concentrated more on the principles of what CG was supposed to be the drip line under his umbrella would have a much much bigger radius.

But that's not in his nature.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Man, kenneth rocafort is cg

For how long?

 

[Twinkletard]

For how long?

lol, you got over or under 10 months?

 

[Smug Freiza]

I agree the pitching competitions are dumb. It might make for mild entertainment depending on how you present it on a stream or video, but I could not think of anything less appealing than competing against other people for $2,000. Then if you run a contest everyone's always begging in private, and in public it becomes a popularity contest (at least from what I've seen).

If I had an extra $2,000 to give away, I think it would be better off donated to an active campaign that's struggling rather than funding a small part of a book that might not ever fund.

I may have asked you this before Nasser but perhaps you could remind me. How much does it roughly cost to produce a crowdfunded comic book? For example the pencils, inks, coloring, lettering, printing, distribution and fulfillment? Maybe stretch goals like trading cards, prints and bookmarks included?

Would $2000 be enough, or put a sizable dent in the final bill?

@Mister Dongs Alazmat Arts Flims made a video expressing how not mad he is about your post about his shit:

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IakmoKZmbI
Archive (720p):
View attachment 1426023

First DarkGrift and now Alazmat films, looking cool as fuck out there @Mister Dongs

Seems like your in high demand from Liam, Ethan and Mecha McCheese. Everybody wants some Dong in their life. Pun intended.

I haven’t seen it’s mentioned here, but Tom King made an ass of himself throwing a shitfit over Lois & Clark actor Dean Cain saying “I wouldn’t be allowed to say ‘Truth, Justice, and the American way today” (fun fact, they wouldn’t have Superman say the phrase in full in both Superman Returns and Smallville). He even went so far as to use his military service as a cudgel to prove himself more morally correct (always a good look). I’ve seen King do some beta cuck shit before but this is probably the most egregious thing I’ve seen him do.

View attachment 1426497
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Anyway, I primarily bring this up because the primary target of my usual autism, Chris of Comic Tropes, naturally sided with Tom King in the form of an outdated normie meme.

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The chad Dean Cain vs the incel Tom King. I wonder if someone has pointed out Chris is shitting on the only non-white Superman actor and how he'd respond? I think Mike S Miller is including Dean Cain in his latest comic, the MAGAnificent Seven, a Tim Limesque pro-Trump parody book.

 

[Newman's Own]

The chad Dean Cain vs the incel Tom King

Tom King is married and judging from the relationships he writes in comics he's almost certainly a cuck, not an incel.