#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[jspit2.0]

Last night, a very inebriated Australian managed to (barely) do a live stream. @FROG was on it, and this thread was discussed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ig_F8N3TVKk:9190
Ethan comes on at 2:33:10 (video is cued to that timestamp)
I come in (on request) at about the 2:51:35 mark.

For what it's worth, when Ethan speaks, his opinions come across a lot softer than they do here. Some people will undoubtedly say I "didn't go in hard enough on him," but that's never really been my style. Sperging on Youtube is never a good look.

Anyways I think I might have convinced Ethan that nobody here is saying Captain Marvel is good. Only that the consensus seems to be "My God! What the fuck are Narwhal and Zach smoking?!" Furthermore, I think it's perfectly reasonable to debate that maybe 499 is worse than Captain Marvel in a relative sense.

Judge for yourself.


It almost reminds me of the old CGA 4-color palette used in early PC games. LOTS of cyan and magenta by design.

Problem is, nobody I know is nostalgic for that (and people can be nostalgic for some pretty weird shit). Most people I know couldn't wait to upgrade their video cards to EGA, Tandy, VGA, etc. The CGA palette was awful and headache inducing. Monochrome was debatably better than CGA.

Ethan: someone compared it to Captain Marvel...

That woulda been me.

 

[Captain Manning]

"Better art than 499" is the new "better love story than Twilight."

If Stupendous were on KF, he would undoubtedly argue that ASSTRO has better art than 499.

I... ugh... I think that might be too rich for my blood... but you could maybe make an argument for it...

MAYBE.

That's how fucking shitty 499 looks.

It would be funny to watch such a debate.

ASSTRO #1 -- A Titillating Space Adventure

Abby loves 2 things: Space & BIG rockets. Blast off with her on a stimulating mission to the moon | Check out 'ASSTRO #1 -- A Titillating Space Adventure' on Indiegogo.

www.indiegogo.com

Ethan: someone compared it to Captain Marvel...

That woulda been me.

Yeah, in hearing him speak, I think that's what stuck in his craw more than anything. Probably why he's defending Zach and Narwhal so hard.

My counterpoint was that I don't think anybody here really WANTS to say anything good about Captain Marvel.

Yet here we are. Life comes at you fast.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

If Stupendous were on KF, he would undoubtedly argue that ASSTRO has better art than 499.

I... ugh... I think that might be too rich for my blood... but you could maybe make an argument for it...

MAYBE.

That's how fucking shitty 499 looks.

It would be funny to watch such a debate.

Bimbos in Time has better artwork than 499. Better writing too.

Yeah, in hearing him speak, I think that's what stuck in his craw more than anything. Probably why he's defending Zach and Narwhal so hard.

My counterpoint was that I don't think anybody here really WANTS to say anything good about Captain Marvel.

Yet here we are. Life comes at you fast.

Saying that Captain Marvel has better art than 499 is merely the truth.

 

[Fluoxetine Man]

Apparently this is his Watchmen/Citizen Kane. He's wanting something that will last or whatever.

Some SJW is putting drugs in Richard's breakfast tacos.

 

[Absurdity]

Ryzie generously donated all of his IQ points to Coopers Brewery I see.

Ethan thinks KF criticism is harsh because it's the only place he actually gets criticized and he can't control the narrative. He complains about "constantly rehashing 2017 and 2018" because it prevents his efforts to whitewash events. We a-logs might be right twice a day, but that's twice as much as Ethan on a whole week of 3-hour streams.

"When Mike came out against me it was devastating...I never liked Mike."

Narwhal is an acquired taste... Tim Lim's art is "gay."

Hey Farmers, anytime you want to cut through this weak doublespeak be my guest.

Back to the failed experiment 499. Another common feature of comic books that is completely absent here aside from a sense of anatomy, perspective and disciplined use of line work, is the use of shading. This is a terribly flat comic strip, without the indication of a single shadow in the linework or the colors. I don't care if you're writing War & Peace, the draftsmanship has to be above the talents of an adult who doesn't draw for a living. This stuff could barely pass as done by a typical teenager. To top it all off, they have legitimized LGBT terminology for a color scheme.

RIP YBZ lol.

 

[jspit2.0]

If Stupendous were on KF, he would undoubtedly argue that ASSTRO has better art than 499.

I... ugh... I think that might be too rich for my blood... but you could maybe make an argument for it...

MAYBE.

That's how fucking shitty 499 looks.

It would be funny to watch such a debate.

View attachment 2156556

ASSTRO #1 -- A Titillating Space Adventure

Abby loves 2 things: Space & BIG rockets. Blast off with her on a stimulating mission to the moon | Check out 'ASSTRO #1 -- A Titillating Space Adventure' on Indiegogo.

www.indiegogo.com

Yeah, in hearing him speak, I think that's what stuck in his craw more than anything. Probably why he's defending Zach and Narwhal so hard.

My counterpoint was that I don't think anybody here really WANTS to say anything good about Captain Marvel.

Yet here we are. Life comes at you fast.

That's true. More than anything I think it struck a nerve because next to a crappy Marvel comics, 499 looks like shit.

You were polite and well spoken, so probably a better rep than we deserve. Kudos to Ethan for at least coming here. Simping Zach is the one that needs it though.

Bimbos in Time has better artwork than 499. Better writing too.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bCHdQ1MB1D4https://youtube.com/watch?v=_CPX2Zrrx-w
Saying that Captain Marvel has better art than 499 is merely the truth.

Yeah, it was a mean, funny truth. Best to rip the motherfukin' bandaid off.

Some SJW is putting drugs in Richards breakfast tacos.

See, this is the kindof stuff I can get behind. Renfamous lives in Texas too, right? Maybe she's given up on Frog and managed to seduce Richard.

Ryzie generously donated all of his IQ points to Coopers Brewery I see.

Ethan thinks KF criticism is harsh because it's the only place he actually gets criticized and he can't control the narrative. He complains about "constantly rehashing 2017 and 2018" because it prevents his efforts to whitewash events. We a-logs might be right twice a day, but that's twice as much as Ethan on a whole week of 3-hour streams.

"When Mike came out against me it was devastating...I never liked Mike."

Narwhal is an acquired taste... Tim Lim's art is "gay."

Hey Farmers, anytime you want to cut through this weak doublespeak be my guest.

Back to the failed experiment 499. Another common feature of comic books that is completely absent here aside from a sense of anatomy, perspective and disciplined use of line work, is the use of shading. This is a terribly flat comic strip, without the indication of a single shadow in the linework or the colors. I don't care if you're writing War & Peace, the draftsmanship has to be above the talents of an adult who doesn't draw for a living. This stuff could barely pass as done by a typical teenager. To top it all off, they have legitimized LGBT terminology for a color scheme.

RIP YBZ lol.

I don't hate anyone enough to Alog them, too much work.

I'm a Kiwi. At most I'll troll and laugh at you. If your poking cows your doing it wrong. Think about it.

Here I am. I've got this derpy ass cow I kindof like named Richard. He'll act loony on the internet or another cow will come up and start flipping out.

Then one day Richard ambles up and just literally drops 499 into our laps. We didn't do anything. Didn't bully him or push him or manipulate him. He made that shit. All. On. His. Own!

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Lightbringer has better art than 499.

 

[KingofNothing]

Last night, a very inebriated Australian managed to (barely) do a live stream. @FROG was on it, and this thread was discussed.


Ethan comes on at 2:33:10 (video is cued to that timestamp)
I come in (on request) at about the 2:51:35 mark.

For what it's worth, when Ethan speaks, his opinions come across a lot softer than they do here. Some people will undoubtedly say I "didn't go in hard enough on him," but that's never really been my style. Sperging on Youtube is never a good look.

Anyways I think I might have convinced Ethan that nobody here is saying Captain Marvel is good. Only that the consensus seems to be "My God! What the fuck are Narwhal and Zach smoking?!" Furthermore, I think it's perfectly reasonable to debate that maybe 499 is worse than Captain Marvel in a relative sense.

Judge for yourself.

God, Ryzie made that rough to listen to, but yeah, EVS tends to be more reasonable once you get face to face so to speak as do most people. Still think he's giving Meyer and Narwhal way too much slack even if he did admit he's very alarmed by the color choices.

 

[Captain Manning]

Ryzie generously donated all of his IQ points to Coopers Brewery I see.

Yeah, nearly three hours into a Ryzie stream is definitely NOT the appropriate forum to try and have an intelligent conversation. You can tell there was universal agreement on that point.

Narwhal is an acquired taste... Tim Lim's art is "gay."

I think one reason I might not ever see eye to eye with Ethan on artwork is because I am more of a weeaboo, and Ethan is not. Meanwhile, I don't dig the capeshit Ethan likes. Different backgrounds and tastes.

This is also another reason why I'm irritated with Liam, and think Xenotype is as much a tragedy as it is hilarious. He had pretty damn good artwork from Ody, but managed to fuck things up royally because he's an insufferably stupid faggot grifter. You can do a "western manga" if you're not a fucking idiot.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I think one reason I might not ever see eye to eye with Ethan on artwork is because I am more of a weeaboo, and Ethan is not. Meanwhile, I don't dig capeshit. Different backgrounds.

Ironic seeing as how Narwhal is obviously going for a Mad House weeb art style.

 

[Absurdity]

I don't hate anyone enough to Alog them, too much work.

I'm a Kiwi. At most I'll troll and laugh at you. If your poking cows your doing it wrong. Think about it.

Here I am. I've got this derpy ass cow I kindof like named Richard. He'll act loony on the internet or another cow will come up and start flipping out.

Then one day Richard ambles up and just literally drops 499 into our laps. We didn't do anything. Didn't bully him or push him or manipulate him. He made that shit. All. On. His. Own!

Richard really had his own metamorphosis and this time it's more than a bad haircut. The consequences will never be the same.

But a word on the despised a-log species. Anyone who shows annoyance is likely to be grouped in with a-logs, and short of doxing it seems to be the big boogeyman of KF. But my fellow New Zealanders, I embrace it. Most of the time people use it just because they don't like being criticized. I salute my negative brethren because it successfully checks the titanic egos of certain individuals at the door. You post on here, whatever cult of personality you had will be severely diminished. But it's also important not to get so caught up in the negging the we forget to laugh at ourselves. This particular subject doesn't factor at all for normies so might as well Reeeee with me brothers!

I think one reason I might not ever see eye to eye with Ethan on artwork is because I am more of a weeaboo, and Ethan is not. Meanwhile, I don't dig the capeshit Ethan likes. Different backgrounds and tastes.

This is also another reason why I'm irritated with Liam, and think Xenotype is as much a tragedy as it is hilarious. He had pretty damn good artwork from Ody, but managed to fuck things up royally because he's an insufferably stupid faggot grifter. You can do a "western manga" if you're not a fucking idiot.

You don't have to be a weeb to prefer Lim over Narwhal, you have to be someone with two eyes on the front of your head. The power of spin is only second to the will-to-power marketing campaign. First time I've ever seen this in the very last place I expected to see it. It's going to be impossible to overstate how incredibly bad this reflects on "duh moofment."

 

[Pilule Noire]

Enough of this insolence, don't you know Frog is always right? And always wins?

Narzack is a Frogling, just like you @NasserRabadi13, just like you @Tyne! He is to be treated as one of the family.

He is your brother now! Brother Narzack. Great grandchild of the Frogfather!

And he ALWAYS wins.

Go on, put him up against anything!

Computer graphics from 1982?

Winner NARZACK!

I hope I've made myself clear.

Frog is always right. Green = right!

So never forget the wise words of Frog, you retarded kiwi hillbillies:

This guy is MONET, you are looking at MONET!

 

[Captain Manning]

But a word on the despised a-log species. Anyone who shows annoyance is likely to be grouped in with a-logs, and short of doxing it seems to be the big boogeyman of KF. But my fellow New Zealanders, I embrace it. Most of the time people use it just because they don't like being criticized. I salute my negative brethren because it successfully checks the titanic egos of certain individuals at the door. You post on here, whatever cult of personality you had will be severely diminished. But it's also important not to get so caught up in the negging the we forget to laugh at ourselves. This particular subject doesn't factor at all for normies so might as well Reeeee with me brothers!

I mentioned a-logging because he does admittedly have some here.

I do not count myself among them. I am mostly ambivalent about FROG. I am not rubbing my hands and gleefully awaiting his downfall.

That said, some of the things he said these past couple of days stuck me as utterly ridiculous and egotistical. To the point where I totally understand why he's such a controversial figure.

In sum, my mentioning a-logging was an attempt to get him to reflect on his words and positions and bit more. Rather than just dismissing the criticism here as only coming from those with a hate-boner for him, Zach, Narwhal, and others.

Dunno if it worked. Was worth a shot.

 

[Absurdity]

I mentioned a-logging because he does admittedly have some here.

I do not count myself among them. I am mostly ambivalent about FROG. I am not rubbing my hands and gleefully awaiting his downfall.

That said, some of the things he said these past couple of days stuck me as utterly ridiculous and egotistical. To the point where I totally understand why he's such a controversial figure.

In sum, my mentioning a-logging was an attempt to get him to reflect on his words and positions and bit more. Rather than just dismissing the criticism here as only coming from those with a hate-boner for him, Zach, Narwhal, and others.

Dunno if it worked. Was worth a shot.

Captain, I think it did. There's a bit more give-and-take when it comes to spoken conversation and it's useful to concede some bugbears in order to get to more important ones. Civilized discussions can at least set a baseline for whoever it is you're talking to. As expected, Ethan's ego has made him perfectly comfortable saying contradictory points within seconds of each other with the full confidence that no one who is anyone will give him grief for it. Lots of material to work with here. For that I thank you!

Don't worry about the a-log thing. I just have to laugh at how KF becomes an automatic write-off because of doxers and a-logs and it becomes a lazy excuse to avoid addressing the very relevant critiques contained therein. In my opinion, even the more hardened edges around here have a core of validity to what they're saying. It's best not to go overboard too often if for no other reason than allowing people to use it as an excuse not to deal with the heart of the argument.

 

[Rupin]

Honestly Just sell it to Tim or chuck dixon.

are Tim and Zack still cool With each other?

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

are Tim and Zack still cool With each other?

Not sure. But I think Tim can do justice with jawbreakers because his previous works with magadamia and kamen.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Wow, 499 might get to people before MONTHS before I get Expendables or Grand Bizzare?

Fucking' hell, I'm done with Zack. Not just "not buying another book until he fulfills" but done done. If you had asked me a little over a year ago if I'd ever say that I'd have told you you were crazy.

What a fucking trainwreck.

 

[jspit2.0]

Honestly Just sell it to Tim or chuck dixon.

I think you'd lose some Jawbreaker fans. Historically, it's been difficulty to get western comic readers to buy into manga style.

Lim reminds me of Fred Perry.

Enough of this insolence, don't you know Frog is always right? And always wins?

Narzack is a Frogling, just like you @NasserRabadi13, just like you @Tyne! He is to be treated as one of the family.

He is your brother now! Brother Narzack. Great grandchild of the Frogfather!

View attachment 2156618

And he ALWAYS wins.

Go on, put him up against anything!

Computer graphics from 1982?
View attachment 2156620
View attachment 2156624
View attachment 2156631
View attachment 2156633

Winner NARZACK!

I hope I've made myself clear.

Frog is always right. Green = right!

So never forget the wise words of Frog, you retarded kiwi hillbillies:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=X6PJzLg5IVI:1309
This guy is MONET, you are looking at MONET!

You are correct and Frog's words have touched me.

See, I just don't understand art.

True, I defended Abstractism from JDA, not only as art but that it can be beautiful.

True, I'm a stupid reader who hasn't been exposed to other drawing styles by Ethan's friends who all draw nice, anatomically correct line work.

Truly I am but a waif and seeing my error I will succumb to bisexual lighting which I had not understanding of how coloring effects storytelling...

 

[Miniluv]

At least now we know that the bar to entry in comics is lower than ever, it's amateur's hour.

Let's be real, the only reason why Narwhal gets away with this napkin art is because he's Narwhal. If 499's artwork had came from anyone else, that person would be a universal laughing stock, especially after shilling it for money.

If Narwhal's art was in some shitty SJW book, you can bet the CG pantheon (and Zack) would be savaging it mercilessly at every opportunity. There's no fucking way they'd give this a pass if some twit like Kelly Sue DeConnick or Gail Simone or Chuck Wendig was writing it. Not one of them would go "This book fucking sucks and Wendig is a talentless soy creature, but this art really has something that speaks to me". Just like none of them would recommend him to an editor or give him work after a portfolio review. He's got a niche, weird, hastily drawn style that kind of evokes a hint of animation but it isn't cut out to sell comics outside of a very small audience that's already into experimental artsy shit.

On the Ryzie stream, Frog said of Narwhal's art "I can say that it's artwork easier than I can say it's good comic book artwork". He knows it's off putting and not something a lot of people would pay $25 to look at.
His claim that Narwhal's stuff is not meant to be pored over but to be read quickly doesn't make the case for having backers pay a premium for art that was quickly spit out with no thought to how it looks. Expecting backers to pay that much for a quickly drawn book meant to be read quickly is asinine.

On a positive note, young artists trying to get into comics shouldn't take criticism of their work seriously enough to get discouraged by it anymore. There are pros that like Narwhal's shit.

Wow, 499 might get to people before MONTHS before I get Expendables or Grand Bizzare?

Fucking' hell, I'm done with Zack. If you had asked me a little over a year ago if I'd ever say that I'd have told you you were crazy.

What a fucking trainwreck.

Whatever Zack has to say about commies is far more important than you getting your stupid superhero muscle funny books on time, pleb.

THIS IS SERIOUS ART.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

I think you'd lose some Jawbreaker fans. Historically, it's been difficulty to get western comic readers to buy into manga style

Never thought of that, but chuck is the best person to get the franchise because other people can't even fulfil their own books.