#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Captain Manning]

Ethan has already told Nasser in a recent stream that he should mention the Donal situation about 80 percent less than he already does. I doubt it‘s anything too big, just Ethan ruffling his hair because Ethan has stated that they are friends and Nasser is a mod on Ethan’s channel.

Well, I can't say Ethan is wrong on this one.

Slay your enemies with silence, Nasser. Or, let it go. Either one would serve you better.

 

[Strix454]

There are about six hours left in Liam Grey's Legend of Zel.....WONDER ISLAND campaign. He is at 116 backers and around $7800. It will be interesting to see what happens. It seems like it will be extremely difficult for him to fulfill the campaign with the money raised. Its 72 pages in color and I don't think he has raised even enough to begin to pay for the art costs on the project.
Printing is also not going to be great because of all the different options combined with the small number of copies per item. He will have to either (a) cancel, (b) scale it all down to something he can make with that amount of money, (c) Make it at a big loss to himself or (d) delay it forever and never fulfill. I think (d) is his best option. There is all kind of precedent within CG for doing that and launching other projects in the meantime. And its going to be tough for any of the big names to attack him for being late given the state of so many other CG projects.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

There is all kind of precedent within CG for doing that and launching other projects in the meantime.

How do people get around indiegogo's rules and do this, again? That's one thing that's always confused me. Do you just say it is "in fulfillment" and then you get to launch another campaign? And then three years later people are still asking for updates?

My limited understanding of things is that this is a big no-no on Kickstarter, at any rate.

 

[Unverified]

So @NasserRabadi13 posted an update to his Secret Comics Presents: a horror comic book campaign.
View attachment 2532431
You do realize that A) you look like an asshole to people who have no idea who Donal is or B) you look like a whiny idiot to those who do know who Donal is. Why in god's name would you put something like this in an update that is associated with your business? The Donal jab and jokes about the boxes being ruined by rain make you sound like an unprofessional, immature, fool who seems likes he is more focused on dunking on someone than making and getting people comics that they paid for.

Is misspelling "overdue" part of the joke? I checked the Brutas update that he is making fun of, and even Donal didn't misspell it.

 

[Strix454]

How do people get around indiegogo's rules and do this, again? That's one thing that's always confused me. Do you just say it is "in fulfillment" and then you get to launch another campaign? And then three years later people are still asking for updates?

My limited understanding of things is that this is a big no-no on Kickstarter, at any rate.

IGG's rules are rather arbitrary. They often both have rules but reserve the right to not enforce the rules as they wish. The relevant part of the TOS for this issue is:

If you either: (a) have run a previous crowdfunding Campaign on our Platform or another platform and have not fulfilled the Perks (or their equivalent) from the previous campaign, or (b) have run a crowdfunding Campaign on our Platform or another platform and have not fulfilled the Perks from the previous campaign before selling substantially equivalent products as those that were offered as Perks in commerce via either a third-party platform or through a dedicated site, then you may not launch another campaign on our Platform without providing us with adequate proof that the Perks or the equivalent from your previous campaign have been fulfilled, though we may choose to allow you to run a subsequent campaign in our sole discretion. All decisions regarding the adequacy of proof will also remain solely within our discretion.

IGG has all sorts of rules that are rarely or almost arbitrarily enforced. This is one example:

Campaign Owners may only communicate with Contributors about the Campaign to which the contribution was made. Campaign Owners may not cross-promote, or otherwise contact (via email, SMS, or any other forms of communication) Contributors about other Campaigns,

They tend to not enforce that UNLESS you promote campaigns or products not on their site.

They are also rather careful about language in certain situations. The most famous one is with regard to self-contributions:

either Indiegogo or our payment processor may take actions like rejecting or blocking Contributions for any length of time or suspending your Indiegogo account, if either Indiegogo or our payment processor, in our sole discretion, discovers self-contributions.

The words "in our sole discretion" are critically important because it would in theory allow them to wave the rule or ignore breaches of the rule abitrarily if they wanted to.

IGG also specifically does not guarantee anything being delivered by a campaign or that the money from the campaign will be used for the intended purposes.

Indiegogo does not guarantee or represent that Contributions will be used as promised, that Campaign Owners will deliver Perks, or that the Campaign will achieve its goals. Indiegogo undertakes no duty to investigate claims made by Campaign Owners. Indiegogo also does not endorse, guarantee, make representations, or provide warranties regarding the quality, safety, morality or legality of any Campaign, Perk or Contribution, or the truth or accuracy of any User Content posted on the Services. The date to deliver a Perk is an estimate by the Campaign Owner (not Indiegogo), and there is no guarantee that the Campaign Owner will fulfill and deliver the Perk by that date.

People like IGG over Kickstarter because IGG's only general interest is in protecting itself from any legal liability. They specifically don't care about their end customers (the people spending money on campaigns) at all. They have rules. But IGG has within their rules the ability to selectively enforce or not enforce any of their rules.

 

[Newman's Own]

Rekt Planet closed in May of 2020 with a delivery date of May 2021. A bit of a long time to complete and deliver a 48 page book but sadly not at all uncommon for CG.

Of course that year was over 4 months ago.


48 pages in 16 months and counting. I counted 36 preview pages so if that's all of it that's a page every 13.5 days or so with 12 pages or more to go. About 5 and a half more months at the current pace.

I'm guessing that's gonna push production to mid to late February and fulfillment should be April or May if things move at the current pace.

Two years for 48 pages. Not surprising if one remembers that Bloodhoney took 18 plus months for 48 pages, but a little disappointing that it's even slower this time.

I expect fulfillment will run smoother though.



Perhaps he'll stop promising.

 

[Strix454]

48 pages in 16 months and counting. I counted 36 preview pages so if that's all of it that's a page every 13.5 days or so with 12 pages or more to go. About 5 and a half more months at the current pace.

The more amusing thing is where that pace puts Reignbow the Brute fulfillment. 48 more pages at 13.5 days a page starting in March 2022. The implication is that it will probably begin to fulfill in early 2024.

You could give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his page creation rate has fallen to 1 every 13.5 days because he is doing both books at the same time. But maybe not.

And speaking of late books, Richard's last update for Expendibles suggested that people should start receiving the books about now or certainly within the next week. Is there any sign he has shipped anything?

 

[Rupin]

The more amusing thing is where that pace puts Reignbow the Brute fulfillment. 48 more pages at 13.5 days a page starting in March 2022. The implication is that it will probably begin to fulfill in early 2024.

And speaking of late books, Richard's last update for Expendibles suggested that people should start receiving the books about now or certainly within the next week. Is there any sign he has shipped anything?

I think he said shipped out a couple posters and dog tags that were linked to the campaign.

 

[The Bovinian Derivative]

Rekt Planet closed in May of 2020 with a delivery date of May 2021. A bit of a long time to complete and deliver a 48 page book but sadly not at all uncommon for CG.

Of course that year was over 4 months ago.
View attachment 2535001 View attachment 2535006

48 pages in 16 months and counting. I counted 36 preview pages so if that's all of it that's a page every 13.5 days or so with 12 pages or more to go. About 5 and a half more months at the current pace.

I'm guessing that's gonna push production to mid to late February and fulfillment should be April or May if things move at the current pace.

Two years for 48 pages. Not surprising if one remembers that Bloodhoney took 18 plus months for 48 pages, but a little disappointing that it's even slower this time.

I expect fulfillment will run smoother though.

View attachment 2535038

Perhaps he'll stop promising.

This project is basically the Star Citizen of ComicsGate: Start out strong and over time balloons to a gargantuan size with a shitton of extra side stuff added delaying everything to oblivion. Although unlike Chris Roberts and Co. EVS will deliver... eventually.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

People like IGG over Kickstarter because IGG's only general interest is in protecting itself from any legal liability. They specifically don't care about their end customers (the people spending money on campaigns) at all. They have rules. But IGG has within their rules the ability to selectively enforce or not enforce any of their rules.

So IndieGoGo is actually a supervillain whose secret villain handle is CaveatEmptor? Somebody should make that comic, though I'm not sure who the hero would be.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

Is misspelling "overdue" part of the joke? I checked the Brutas update that he is making fun of, and even Donal didn't misspell it.

That was on me for writing it as soon as I woke up and not checking for typos.


EDIT:

Just posted a nicer update we can all enjoy:



Fulfillment has been going great. Thank you again to everyone here that believed in me and encouraged me.

Next month is CREEPSTERS. Max must save his sister when the sinister CREEPSTERS wreak havoc on the small town of Perdida Cove.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Perhaps he'll stop promising.

The vast majority of his fans don't seem to care, so why should he? He feeds them reams of nonsense, they nod their heads in agreement, and that's that. Long as his fans are all along for the ride, they'll continue to get ridden. I'm not prepared to say the people who buy ComicsGate offerings are any more gullible than any other group you would select, but they definitely have blind spots. And this is one of them.

Tim Lim, Doug Ernest and Peter Simeti are all outside the mainstream, in fact are despised by it as much as anyone in ComicsGate, all produce books on a regular basis and (as best I can tell) all meet self-imposed deadlines. With no BS and with minimal drama. You'd think they'd be the heroes of ComicsGate, but nope. Almost like you could reasonably conclude drama and BS aren't a bug in #ComicsGate, they're a feature.

 

[FROG]

The vast majority of his fans don't seem to care, so why should he? He feeds them reams of nonsense, they nod their heads in agreement, and that's that. Long as his fans are all along for the ride, they'll continue to get ridden. I'm not prepared to say the people who buy ComicsGate offerings are any more gullible than any other group you would select, but they definitely have blind spots. And this is one of them.

Tim Lim, Doug Ernest and Peter Simeti are all outside the mainstream, in fact are despised by it as much as anyone in ComicsGate, all produce books on a regular basis and (as best I can tell) all meet self-imposed deadlines. With no BS and with minimal drama. You'd think they'd be the heroes of ComicsGate, but nope. Almost like you could reasonably conclude drama and BS aren't a bug in #ComicsGate, they're a feature.

Could be also that people prefer my books to theirs and don’t mind waiting for them.

A feature of the critics of ComicsGate seems to be this idea that “comic” is an equivalent product, and whomever can shit the most out the fastest “without drama” should be the winner.

We’ll continue to see how that goes.

 

[Strix454]

The vast majority of his fans don't seem to care, so why should he? He feeds them reams of nonsense, they nod their heads in agreement, and that's that. Long as his fans are all along for the ride, they'll continue to get ridden. I'm not prepared to say the people who buy ComicsGate offerings are any more gullible than any other group you would select, but they definitely have blind spots. And this is one of them.

Comicsgate isn't about comics. Its about e-celebrity and youtube shows. People buy the comics to support the shows & personalities just like people make donations to National Public Radio and get coffee mugs. The fans don't care about the comics anymore than the people making the comics care about them. They are not paying $100 or $200 & buying endless multiple copies of the same books because they love the stories.
And being extremely late is a tradition that goes back to the beginning of Comicsgate. Richard's original Jawbreakers book finished ("finished" being loosely defined) three years late and he repeatedly lied about its status. He claimed it was "complete" two years before he finally ended the project.
Mitch's entire campaign was a giant con game. In addition to being years later, he eventually explained that he had never been a part of comicsgate and was simply being polite to people that others found abhorrent.

You have to look at the big picture. The people who support these comicsgate books at this point deserve to have their money taken away from them. And the more money taken from them, the better. Anyone backing these projects now knows full well that the books are going to be late and what the low quality of the books is going to be. There was a time where you could make an argument that people were being conned and taken advantage of, but thats long over.

And for those interested, Liam has revealed his campaign post-failure intentions.

1) He is going to keep the campaign going by doing a round of funding on Kickstarter. This will buy him several more months of delay in ever fulfilling it.
2) Liam brought in one of his soldier friends to do a security analysis of the conquest comics movement. Liam has discovered more traitors in the conquest comics orbit and has promised another round of purges soon.
2) The situation requires a "reset" of his company operations given that he is in hostile territory surrounded by enemies.
3) Liam is going to "up" his youtube game as part of the conquest comics reset. He is going to start inviting on his rock star friends to prove how famous he is and he is going to produce videos with shooting, hunting and explosions.
4) No more books in color.
5) He also made an odd comment to the effect that his child's birth was "in a few months" when (based on his past posts), the child should be born within the next few weeks.
6) His "daughter" Mangr-Chan was on the closeout stream last night. She doesn't seem to realize that Wonder Island didn't raise enough money to pay her for the art.
7) He is going to build more stuff including a "castle" and a "bunker".
He is going to find more interesting people like Berserk Guts and Ryzie Lee & bring them to youtube.

 

[Newman's Own]

This project is basically the Star Citizen of ComicsGate: Start out strong and over time balloons to a gargantuan size with a shitton of extra side stuff added delaying everything to oblivion. Although unlike Chris Roberts and Co. EVS will deliver... eventually.

Everything could be delayed by the extras but he seems to have all of that well in hand. He simply hasn't been putting the time in to get the art done. Or maybe a page every 14 days is just the pace when you're "immersed" in the work and play the jingle you wrote about it every morning.

This is just typical of comic artists in general. They know they are capable of shipping in 7-8 months if they put the hours like he predicted but unless their is accountability (a boss) few artists have the discipline to deliver on time so instead of 4 months early you get it a year late.

This isn't special to @FROG. Most artists overestimate their motivation and work ethic.

Could be also that people prefer my books to theirs and don’t mind waiting for them.

A feature of the critics of ComicsGate seems to be this idea that “comic” is an equivalent product, and whomever can shit the most out the fastest “without drama” should be the winner.

We’ll continue to see how that goes.

Hmm, salty...

Let's be honest, Simeti, Lim and Ernst don't 'shit out' low quality work fastest. They all do very high quality work (by CG standards stellar work) and get it done on time because they take their deadlines seriously and have professional work ethics.

The talking cat book is a good example of how fast a motivated professional can get the work done as well. Shane knocked that book out of the park. It's just the exception not the rule.

Some people sell books "without drama" and people like them and don't have to wait. And some people sell YouTube drama and the customers don't care if the book is a year late because that's not what they really come for anyway. If it was, they'd be more annoyed and they're not. The book is really just merch from their favorite YT personality and that's fine.

You simply have very different models. Both seem to be very successful models.

Good for you.

You'd think they'd be the heroes of ComicsGate

If ComicsGate was about comics perhaps.

Almost like you could reasonably conclude drama and BS aren't a bug in #ComicsGate, they're a feature.

It's all about showing support for your favorite YouTubers.

This is why self insert books like Stealing Solo, Cash Grab and Brand were good ideas (despite being trash ideas). They gave the customers what they wanted, more of their favorite YouTubers. People donate to these campaigns for the same reason people throw money at Nerdrotic every Friday night, because they enjoy the show and love the guy putting it on. The few who complain aren't YouTube fans.

It's a good model. It's just not about comics. It's about YouTube.

EDIT:

And for those interested, Liam has revealed his campaign post-failure intentions.

1) He is going to keep the campaign going by doing a round of funding on Kickstarter. This will buy him several more months of delay in ever fulfilling it.
2) Liam brought in one of his soldier friends to do a security analysis of the conquest comics movement. Liam has discovered more traitors in the conquest comics orbit and has promised another round of purges soon.
2) The situation requires a "reset" of his company operations given that he is in hostile territory surrounded by enemies.
3) Liam is going to "up" his youtube game as part of the conquest comics reset. He is going to start inviting on his rock star friends to prove how famous he is and he is going to produce videos with shooting, hunting and explosions.
4) No more books in color.
5) He also made an odd comment to the effect that his child's birth was "in a few months" when (based on his past posts), the child should be born within the next few weeks.
6) His "daughter" Mangr-Chan was on the closeout stream last night. She doesn't seem to realize that Wonder Island didn't raise enough money to pay her for the art.
7) He is going to build more stuff including a "castle" and a "bunker".

This is fascinating. Thanks for the update.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Could be also that people prefer my books to theirs and don’t mind waiting for them.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do deadlines mean to you? I mean, why set them at all? Is it because you're required to do so for crowdfunding campaigns? Couldn't you just say you'll get it done when you're done with it?

I mean in the realm of popular fiction it has been over ten years since George RR Martin or Patrick Rothfuss published the sequels they've promised, and both still have legions of fans.

A feature of the critics of ComicsGate seems to be this idea that “comic” is an equivalent product, and whomever can shit the most out the fastest “without drama” should be the winner.

Objective garbage like 499 and whatever that mess Zach turded out that was the black chick with the shaved side head who was caught up in an epidemic was (I've forgotten the name and am too lazy to look) included? I've yet to see anything produced by Lim and Ernest anywhere near as awful as those two books.

Simeti you might have a point on, but $1.99 or $2.99 for a substandard comic I'm personally going to be far more forgiving over than $25 plus shipping for one received 18 months after I expected it. But that's me, and others are different.

You have to look at the big picture. The people who support these comicsgate books at this point deserve to have their money taken away from them. And the more money taken from them, the better.

I guess I was too naive; somehow I assumed on some level people actually think when a deadline is announced an honest effort (at least) is made to achieve it. Saying it is some sort of strange kabuki dance where the entire thing is a polite fiction and all parties are aware this is how it works had honestly never occurred to me. Though in retrospect, it probably should have. The whole business certainly makes much more sense when viewed through this lens.

As to "the more money, the better," sure, I guess. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, after all. And most purchasers seem (publicly) happy with what they get when they (eventually) get it. Enough certainly seem to return to the well, too, implying satisfaction at the purchase and presumably delivery.

2) Liam brought in one of his soldier friends to do a security analysis of the conquest comics movement. Liam has discovered more traitors in the conquest comics orbit and has promised another round of purges soon.

7) He is going to build more stuff including a "castle" and a "bunker".

Liam is like the herpes of comicsgate, isn't he? A gift that keeps on giving. Doubtless both the purges and the empire building will be well documented on video. He simply cannot seem to help himself that way.

 

[Weeb Slinger]

There are about six hours left in Liam Grey's Legend of Zel.....WONDER ISLAND campaign. He is at 116 backers and around $7800. It will be interesting to see what happens. It seems like it will be extremely difficult for him to fulfill the campaign with the money raised. Its 72 pages in color and I don't think he has raised even enough to begin to pay for the art costs on the project.
Printing is also not going to be great because of all the different options combined with the small number of copies per item. He will have to either (a) cancel, (b) scale it all down to something he can make with that amount of money, (c) Make it at a big loss to himself or (d) delay it forever and never fulfill. I think (d) is his best option. There is all kind of precedent within CG for doing that and launching other projects in the meantime. And its going to be tough for any of the big names to attack him for being late given the state of so many other CG projects.

The artwork for WONDER ISLAND reminds me of the kind of colouring book that you would purchase from a wire carousel, in a provincial post office, for a sick kid who you didn't like.

Liam seems determined to fuck himself on the stretch goals, where he is offering an additional uninspiring perk for every grand, up to the first thirteen. Currently he owes his backers a 48 page book, 3 cards and a pin-up. That could run to a magnet and an expansion to a 72 page book if there was a last minute rush to fund the project, which doesn't seem likely. Evidently, 48 pages is more than enough WONDER ISLAND for anyone. Nobody wants an additional 24-page peninsula grafted onto the end.

Surely it would have been better to devote the first ten bags to funding the basic book with perhaps an expansion to the page count as it neared that total. The deluge of tat could have commenced once the fundamentals were bankrolled.

The stretch goal totalizer optimistically closes out at $100,000. How anybody could look at WONDER ISLAND and think that it would run to six figures is beyond me. Similar low-effort generic crap is found lining the bellies of sea turtles everyday. Even the turtle fishermen throw it back into the ocean.

-

 

[TheCosmicWarrior]

I have a full hour stream of Liam bitching about Ethan which is private we will be efapping tomorrow. Enjoy, Comicsgate!

 

[Newman's Own]

I have a full hour stream of Liam bitching about Ethan which is private we will be efapping tomorrow. Enjoy, Comicsgate!

Why do you hate our Boudica?

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Could be also that people prefer my books to theirs and don’t mind waiting for them.

A feature of the critics of ComicsGate seems to be this idea that “comic” is an equivalent product, and whomever can shit the most out the fastest “without drama” should be the winner.

We’ll continue to see how that goes.

Now do Cecil!

Is Cash Grab a year late yet?