- Joined
- Jul 16, 2021
Creepy Unsolved Mysteries - From unsolved murders to unidentified people to unexplained supernatural events, what are some of the creepiest unsolved mysteries you've ever heard of?
- Thread starter Bunny Tracks
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2018
How about Sebastian Rogers? An alleged photograph, strange lights at night, and his mom and stepfather acting extremely suspicious....
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
@glass_houses did a fairly comprehensive write up on the case like one page ago
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- Feb 4, 2018
I still have no idea what could have happened to him. I want to believe he's alive. But...idk
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- Jul 22, 2015
I've only watched the first three Lore Lodge episodes on him, and I'm not familiar with the "alleged photograph, strange lights at night". They posted a followup podcast this week, but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.
I would appreciate a pointer?
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2022
Thoroughly enjoyed this thread, I have something to contribute myself regarding unsolved mysteries.
The Frog Boys come to mind as Korea's most famous unsolved crime. I am surprised to see it hasn't been mentioned here.
On March 26, 1991, six boys from Daegu's Dalseo district went to the local hill on the city outskirts to catch salamander/frog eggs (hence the name Frog Boys). They were:
- Woo Cheol-won, 13 years old, middle
- Jo Ho-yeon, 12 years old, bottom left
- Kim Yeong-gyu, 11 years old, top right
- Park Chan-in, 10 years old, bottom right
- Kim Jong-sik, 9 years old, top left
- Kim Tae-ryong, 9 years old, accompanied them
They lived in the same general area and attended the same elementary school, Seongseo Elementary School. Tae-ryong went home after remembering that his mother warned him to not stray too far away from home. The remaining five boys disappeared that morning and their bodies weren't found for over a decade.
The disappearance of the five boys caused massive media outcry and a nationwide search campaign that became unfruitful, however on September 26, 2002, 11 and a half years after their disappearance, police found their bodies on that same hill they disappeared on after receiving a tip from two men that were collecting acorns on the hill. Some of the bodies showed blunt-force trauma caused by farming tools. The bodies were naked and their clothes tidied up on top of their bodies, with one of the shirts' pockets having bullet casings in them.
The initial police investigation was sloppy, unhelpful and caused more confusion, as the police chief claimed that the boys died of hypothermia. However, after the signs of trauma were revealed on their skulls, and receiving backlash from their parents, investigation has been restarted and police are still looking for clues to this day.
The mystery is that the murderer has never been found. The theories on who may have killed the boys range wildly from North Korean spies, their homeroom teachers, their parents, however the two most accepted theories will be listed below.
The initial theory of hypothermia was quickly dismissed. It wasn't even that cold when they did go missing, it was a regular spring morning. After the blunt-force trauma and bullet casings were found, some suggested that an enranged soldier/farmer may have killed them for doing bullshit at a dangerous area. The boys did die not far away from a military firing range. The theory that they were killed by a stray bullet or a soldier was denied by the local corps' chief officer as there was no shooting schedule for that day, which was a public holiday, and if any soldier had escaped or were on vacation, the entire corps would've known about it and investigated.
Some have also suggested that it may have been delinquent high schoolers from the nearby technical high school (technical schools in Korea have a reputation for containing bullies) that were huffing glue on the hill, encountered the boys, and subsequently killed them for fun. However school staff have denied that any of their past students could have been correlated to the crime. This however seems like the most likely theory, since the hill they died on, Waryong mountain, was a known place for misfits to hang out and smoke cigarettes / huff glue.
There is a testimony made in 2002 by a netizen, which will be in the spoiler below. It's machine translated so take it with a grain of salt.
The Frog Boys come to mind as Korea's most famous unsolved crime. I am surprised to see it hasn't been mentioned here.
On March 26, 1991, six boys from Daegu's Dalseo district went to the local hill on the city outskirts to catch salamander/frog eggs (hence the name Frog Boys). They were:
- Woo Cheol-won, 13 years old, middle
- Jo Ho-yeon, 12 years old, bottom left
- Kim Yeong-gyu, 11 years old, top right
- Park Chan-in, 10 years old, bottom right
- Kim Jong-sik, 9 years old, top left
- Kim Tae-ryong, 9 years old, accompanied them
They lived in the same general area and attended the same elementary school, Seongseo Elementary School. Tae-ryong went home after remembering that his mother warned him to not stray too far away from home. The remaining five boys disappeared that morning and their bodies weren't found for over a decade.
The disappearance of the five boys caused massive media outcry and a nationwide search campaign that became unfruitful, however on September 26, 2002, 11 and a half years after their disappearance, police found their bodies on that same hill they disappeared on after receiving a tip from two men that were collecting acorns on the hill. Some of the bodies showed blunt-force trauma caused by farming tools. The bodies were naked and their clothes tidied up on top of their bodies, with one of the shirts' pockets having bullet casings in them.
The initial police investigation was sloppy, unhelpful and caused more confusion, as the police chief claimed that the boys died of hypothermia. However, after the signs of trauma were revealed on their skulls, and receiving backlash from their parents, investigation has been restarted and police are still looking for clues to this day.
The mystery is that the murderer has never been found. The theories on who may have killed the boys range wildly from North Korean spies, their homeroom teachers, their parents, however the two most accepted theories will be listed below.
The initial theory of hypothermia was quickly dismissed. It wasn't even that cold when they did go missing, it was a regular spring morning. After the blunt-force trauma and bullet casings were found, some suggested that an enranged soldier/farmer may have killed them for doing bullshit at a dangerous area. The boys did die not far away from a military firing range. The theory that they were killed by a stray bullet or a soldier was denied by the local corps' chief officer as there was no shooting schedule for that day, which was a public holiday, and if any soldier had escaped or were on vacation, the entire corps would've known about it and investigated.
Some have also suggested that it may have been delinquent high schoolers from the nearby technical high school (technical schools in Korea have a reputation for containing bullies) that were huffing glue on the hill, encountered the boys, and subsequently killed them for fun. However school staff have denied that any of their past students could have been correlated to the crime. This however seems like the most likely theory, since the hill they died on, Waryong mountain, was a known place for misfits to hang out and smoke cigarettes / huff glue.
There is a testimony made in 2002 by a netizen, which will be in the spoiler below. It's machine translated so take it with a grain of salt.
I graduated from Seodo Elementary School in Seo-gu, Daegu. And I graduated from Jukjeon Middle School, not far from the 50th Division (where the remains of the frog boys were found). Of course, there is a little time difference from when I was in elementary or middle school. — I entered middle school in my early 30s in 1984 because I was in my early 30s.[4] However, I also had the experience of going to Waryongsan Mountain shooting range to pick up bullets and bullets until middle school. Military officials will deny it, but any elementary and middle school students in the neighborhood (to Pyeongri-dong, Seo-gu) would know that they had visited to pick up bullets and bullets. They even managed to get into the reserve military shooting range. I bet because I still remember picking up bullets from there. At that time, there was a shooting place at a fairly long distance, and the side where the bullets were stuck was covered with sandbags and dirt. (For your information, I was exempted from the call-up for defense guards due to difficulties in making a living. I have never touched a real gun since I was born, just as I remember back then.) I collected and sold them, made necklaces and other decorations, and put them in a pencil case as a pride. When I was in middle school, there was a friend's house in Igok-dong (near the 50th Division at the time), so I went up Waryongsan Mountain a lot to catch wild birds and rabbits. The place where the boys' remains were found. I remember it as a place that did not fall far from the private house. When I looked down from there, I could see the light of a private house, and the footpath was downwards. I also went there often, no, upwards, and used to come down when the sun went down. Based on my memories and experiences, if the boys were cold enough to suffer from hypothermia because of the coldness at that time, they would have come down seeing the light of the private house. When I went to Waryongsan Mountain with my friends in elementary school, I used to come down after seeing the light of the private house when the sun went down, but even in common sense, it is difficult to think that boys who lived nearby and frequently climbed Waryongsan Mountain were unable to come down and had accidents. However, I think the boys were killed there, rather than being moved. The reason, of course, can be inferred from my experience. As I said earlier, when I was young, I often climbed Waryongsan Mountain. However, it was not always fun hiking. This is because there were incidents that sometimes came as a shock. There were quite a few bad people because Waryongsan Mountain is not a very high hill and goes deep to form a forest to some extent. When I was young, I often witnessed drunk high school students and older brothers in their early 20s fighting, and I even saw a lot of secret acts. They would sometimes be their plaything. There were more than a few times when he appeared drunk with a cigarette, took away all the shells and warheads we picked up, hit them, and lied on his stomach and got severely discouraged. Sometimes they tied our group to a tree and bullied them, saying they were asked to box. I think it was a murder by those people. Of course, I had no intention of killing them at first, but somehow I died and I felt like I was in a hurry to bury them. Or you could tie them up or kneel down and cover your lower body with soil (there was a time when you were actually almost a carcass like this when you were young), and you could die because the perpetrators just went down. I don't think there can be a natural death. If all five of them were injured and could not move, they would not know, but if not, they would see the light of the private house dimly below, and for children who lived nearby, there is no reason to die of natural death (from hypothermia). The Waryongsan area was a so-called crime zone. I still remember being bullied by bullies in Waryongsan Mountain at the time, and 20 years later, I still have scars on my thighs (although less than 1cm long) that they jokingly harassed and stabbed with a Doruko knife (white pencil sharpener) in Waryongsan Mountain. I think those who have been in and out of Waryongsan Mountain when they were young would be dumbfounded, frustrated, and sighing about the current police announcement or investigation situation. I hope that the investigation will proceed with accurate identification of the cause of death, even if it is a little trouble.
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- Joined
- Oct 20, 2021
The murder of Polish prime minister Piotr Jaroszewicz and his second wife Alicja Solska.
Jaroszewicz was the prime minister of Communist Poland between 1970 and 1980. He was reportedly removed from this position due to his growing unease with the regime, and there had been an attempt to poison him by the Party and secret services, but the details are murky.
Following the collapse of Polish People's Republic, Jaroszewicz and his wife lived in his house in Warsaw suburbs. He was paranoid, carried a gun everywhere, got a rottweiler, the property was heavily fenced and they didn't entertain guests. Despite all these measures, Jaroszewicz and his wife were both murdered on September 1st, 1991. Jaroszewicz was bound, tortured and strangled to death. One of his hands was not tied, indicating it was needed to either point at or sign something. His wife was shot. Only few valuables were stolen, despite the fact that the house was full of them. Some documents were taken from the safe, yet nobody knows what they were.
The police bungled the investigation very badly, most likely deliberately. There were tons of random people visiting the site of the murder once the news broke out, fingerprints, footprints, etc. were badly secured, if at all, many important pieces of evidence got lost or misplaced and so on.
Jaroszewicz was apparently planning to publish his memoirs and some important people were afraid he would name names. His notes were never found.
Now there are three major theories as to why exactly he was killed. All of them need a wider historical context for proper understanding, so this is gonna be long:
Recently some book on the topic had been published, positing it was all the work of his second wife, apparently some kind of BPD hoe, who, according to several sources, tried to kill her stepson (Jaroszewicz's son from first marriage) more than once and pulled other strange stunts. According to this theory, she ordered a hit on her husband for some reason, but things went south and she ended up dead as well.
There are tons of unexplained shit about this case, from someone later trying to break into the house of one of Jaroszewicz's sons through the basement, some grunts who were initially suspected of the murder and clearly being instructed what to say, the total incompetence of the police when handling the investigation, evidence being found in random places decades later, and so on.
Then again, I'm sure most post-Soviet countries have cases like that.
Jaroszewicz was the prime minister of Communist Poland between 1970 and 1980. He was reportedly removed from this position due to his growing unease with the regime, and there had been an attempt to poison him by the Party and secret services, but the details are murky.
Following the collapse of Polish People's Republic, Jaroszewicz and his wife lived in his house in Warsaw suburbs. He was paranoid, carried a gun everywhere, got a rottweiler, the property was heavily fenced and they didn't entertain guests. Despite all these measures, Jaroszewicz and his wife were both murdered on September 1st, 1991. Jaroszewicz was bound, tortured and strangled to death. One of his hands was not tied, indicating it was needed to either point at or sign something. His wife was shot. Only few valuables were stolen, despite the fact that the house was full of them. Some documents were taken from the safe, yet nobody knows what they were.
The police bungled the investigation very badly, most likely deliberately. There were tons of random people visiting the site of the murder once the news broke out, fingerprints, footprints, etc. were badly secured, if at all, many important pieces of evidence got lost or misplaced and so on.
Jaroszewicz was apparently planning to publish his memoirs and some important people were afraid he would name names. His notes were never found.
Now there are three major theories as to why exactly he was killed. All of them need a wider historical context for proper understanding, so this is gonna be long:
His knowledge of the internal and often criminal affairs of the Party and the government. As usual, there was a ton of shady shit Soviet-adjacent governments did, including literally engaging in international crime to get funds for their intelligence operations (which later got partially defrauded, kek).
His knowledge of the Soviet "illegals" among Polish politicians of the commie era. "Illegals" are more commonly called "matryoshkas" in Poland and this term usually refers to important figures that were literally replaced by Russian agents at some point in their lives. To give a more in-depth explanation, following the Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939, plenty of Polish citizens in Soviet-occupied territories were arrested, mostly for absolutely retarded reasons (Gustaw Herling-Grudziński was sentenced for 5 years for having a German-sounding name and a pair of decent leather boots) and sent to gulags deep in USSR territory. This actually happened to Jaroszewicz as well - he was first deported to Archangelsk, then to Kazakhstan before he joined Polish People's Army. However, some of these Polish citizens were reportedly being later killed and replaced by Soviet spies (who received a thorough training in impersonating them) and sent back to Poland around 1944 to become part of the Soviet-controlled new Polish government. Two major political figures are most often accused of being matryoshkas: the first president of Polish People's Republic, Bolesław Bierut and general Wojciech Jaruzelski.
Bierut is an interesting case, since he apparently wasn't killed (he was a veteran commie already by the time WW2 rolled around) and existed concurrently with his matryoshka, and his family was in on it. Then the original was killed by some anti-commie attacker in late 1940s and his matryoshka took over completely. He stopped being useful following the death of Stalin, went on a visit to Moscow in 1956 and died there. On the other hand, Bierut was always of poor health, was a hardline Stalinist, and Khrushchev's denouncement of Stalinism was apparently a huge shock to him, which might have contributed to his death. Still, a lot of people in Poland believed Soviets would be brazen enough to just kill him off.
As for Jaruzelski, he was a teenager when the war started. He and his family were sent to Siberia. Notably, he came from an old noble and very patriotic Polish family, and when he returned from USSR as a Soviet officer, plenty of people believed he was killed and replaced. Also, Jaruzelski abstained from alcohol all his life and it was speculated it was a security measure to make sure he would never get wasted and start talking.
Bottom line is, there were at least a dozen more people speculated to be matryoshkas, and Jaroszewicz supposedly had some knowledge and blackmail material on them.
Bierut is an interesting case, since he apparently wasn't killed (he was a veteran commie already by the time WW2 rolled around) and existed concurrently with his matryoshka, and his family was in on it. Then the original was killed by some anti-commie attacker in late 1940s and his matryoshka took over completely. He stopped being useful following the death of Stalin, went on a visit to Moscow in 1956 and died there. On the other hand, Bierut was always of poor health, was a hardline Stalinist, and Khrushchev's denouncement of Stalinism was apparently a huge shock to him, which might have contributed to his death. Still, a lot of people in Poland believed Soviets would be brazen enough to just kill him off.
As for Jaruzelski, he was a teenager when the war started. He and his family were sent to Siberia. Notably, he came from an old noble and very patriotic Polish family, and when he returned from USSR as a Soviet officer, plenty of people believed he was killed and replaced. Also, Jaruzelski abstained from alcohol all his life and it was speculated it was a security measure to make sure he would never get wasted and start talking.
Bottom line is, there were at least a dozen more people speculated to be matryoshkas, and Jaroszewicz supposedly had some knowledge and blackmail material on them.
In 1944, Walter Schellenberg ordered the RSHA archives, containing around 300k files of German and French military intelligence data, mostly regarding French and Belgian Nazi collaborators, but also Rothschilds and Leon Blum, and a lot of dirt on many European politicians, to be moved to the palace in Radmeritz (Radomierzyce), now part of Poland. However, in spring of 1945 the Eastern Front reached Radomierzyce earlier than the Nazis expected, and they didn't manage to pack these files again and take them back to Germany, so they basically fled, leaving all of this behind. The first people to reach the palace in June 1945 were three Polish men: Piotr Jaroszewicz, at the time a key member of newly formed Polish Ministry of National Defence, Jerzy Fonkowicz, at the time a member of Polish counterintelligence division, but also a Soviet informant, later in life a general brigadier, and Tadeusz Steć, a literal who.
Jaroszewicz and his colleagues apparently managed to take some important files from the archive before Soviet forces arrived there and told them to fuck off, then packed the rest of the documents and sent them to Moscow.
It should be noted that this story remains unconfirmed: it was first told by Steć in 1970s and I never found any proof of either Jaroszewicz or Fonkowicz mentioning anything about it. However, all three of these men were murdered.
Steć later became a mountain guide, and guides are often kinda expected to be good at spinning tall tales, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was bullshitting. He was found murdered in his house in January 1993; nothing or almost nothing was stolen despite him owning plenty of antiques and valuables. He was gay, seeing someone secretly, and it was speculated it might have been some relationship gone sour. The murderer was never found, one suspect was eventually acquitted.
Fonkowicz was also murdered in circumstances very similar to Jaroszewicz's: found dead in his house in October 1997 with signs of being torturd for a long time. Some things were stolen from him, but not much and not very valuable. The perpetrators were, of course, never found.
This is of course the most fun theory, at least to me, because I'm really into WW2 intelligence conspiracy theory bullshit, but sadly, the least likely. If Jaroszewicz knew anything, he had sat on this data for almost 50 years; in 1990s most of this shit would be already irrelevant, not to mention I find it hard to believe Soviets would let any of them get away with even a single file from that archive, even if the story about the archive itself is true.
Jaroszewicz and his colleagues apparently managed to take some important files from the archive before Soviet forces arrived there and told them to fuck off, then packed the rest of the documents and sent them to Moscow.
It should be noted that this story remains unconfirmed: it was first told by Steć in 1970s and I never found any proof of either Jaroszewicz or Fonkowicz mentioning anything about it. However, all three of these men were murdered.
Steć later became a mountain guide, and guides are often kinda expected to be good at spinning tall tales, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was bullshitting. He was found murdered in his house in January 1993; nothing or almost nothing was stolen despite him owning plenty of antiques and valuables. He was gay, seeing someone secretly, and it was speculated it might have been some relationship gone sour. The murderer was never found, one suspect was eventually acquitted.
Fonkowicz was also murdered in circumstances very similar to Jaroszewicz's: found dead in his house in October 1997 with signs of being torturd for a long time. Some things were stolen from him, but not much and not very valuable. The perpetrators were, of course, never found.
This is of course the most fun theory, at least to me, because I'm really into WW2 intelligence conspiracy theory bullshit, but sadly, the least likely. If Jaroszewicz knew anything, he had sat on this data for almost 50 years; in 1990s most of this shit would be already irrelevant, not to mention I find it hard to believe Soviets would let any of them get away with even a single file from that archive, even if the story about the archive itself is true.
Recently some book on the topic had been published, positing it was all the work of his second wife, apparently some kind of BPD hoe, who, according to several sources, tried to kill her stepson (Jaroszewicz's son from first marriage) more than once and pulled other strange stunts. According to this theory, she ordered a hit on her husband for some reason, but things went south and she ended up dead as well.
There are tons of unexplained shit about this case, from someone later trying to break into the house of one of Jaroszewicz's sons through the basement, some grunts who were initially suspected of the murder and clearly being instructed what to say, the total incompetence of the police when handling the investigation, evidence being found in random places decades later, and so on.
Then again, I'm sure most post-Soviet countries have cases like that.
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- Joined
- Oct 23, 2020
Dude, they drove a rented minivan into the middle of one of the most inhospitable places on the fucking planet. They were just typical arrogant euros and their poor children paid the price.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
I wouldn't say arrogant so much as ignorant. Most euros (outside of a few countries that have similarly inhospitable places) seriously don't understand that when Americans call something "Death Valley" we actually mean it. We didn't just call it that for giggles.
They also didn't just choose one of the most likely places to FAFO, but chose maybe the worst possible road to try to get out of it.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2017
It's not just "Death Valley" itself. Every damn geographic feature associated with that place has got a horrifying name: Hell's Gate Pass, the lovely town of Furnace Creek, the Devil's Golf Course, and my personal favorite ... the Funeral Mountains. We tried to warn you dopey Germans!
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- Dec 28, 2014
And these nightmarish wildernesses are not even the most dangerous places in America, which are probably our cities.
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- Feb 17, 2017
And the worst possible time of year.
Death Valley in the middle/end of July? When the daytime air temperature was in the 120s?
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- Aug 29, 2020
In my experience, Germans are poor English speakers, and the older they are, the worse it gets. In 1996? It is conceivable that the parents didn't understand the names.
Okay. I haven't seen the text but they must have understood enough.Wikipedia said:
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
"We'll just read these things about this place called Death Valley when we're back home in Naziland."
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- Feb 17, 2017
I've read that if a road is marked on a German map, it means the road is well-maintained and drivable.
The DV map in their book showed the road, but nothing about its condition.
And they went for the military base, thinking it would have a well-patrolled perimeter, like they have in Germany, instead of going back to the Geologists Cabin.
Mr. Cheese said he should've sent the girlfriend and the kids back to the cabin, while he removed and set one of the flat tires on fire to draw attention to their presence.
Yeah, they would've missed their flight, and the rental company would have serious questions for them, but it was better than the alternative.
The DV map in their book showed the road, but nothing about its condition.
And they went for the military base, thinking it would have a well-patrolled perimeter, like they have in Germany, instead of going back to the Geologists Cabin.
Mr. Cheese said he should've sent the girlfriend and the kids back to the cabin, while he removed and set one of the flat tires on fire to draw attention to their presence.
Yeah, they would've missed their flight, and the rental company would have serious questions for them, but it was better than the alternative.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2017
I am sure this was posted before when this conversation first came up but this is a very good read on the discovery of the remains from a searcher. The area is so desolate the searcher even notes he is NOT going back to the area.
The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans
This is the tale of what for me was a rather remarkable adventure. It was assembled on the basis of my personal recollection and experience, emails, GPS logs and some official documents. It represents solely the perspective and opinions of myself, in my more lucid moments. It is in no way...
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2017
I've heard some people say it's a Virgin Mary. It's possible. It looks really worn though. More likely some sort of trail marker or a just a weird, vaguely humanoid stone. And at this point it might not even be there anymore. No one has ever found it. No one knows where it is. It could have been knocked over and buried in dirt, taken by somebody who thought it was a cool looking stone ect...
It doesn't look very large. But it's hard to say because it could be buried in deeper leaves than it appears. I do think it means something. No one keeps a picture of a stone for no reason whatsoever. But I don't think those children will ever be found. Not unless some hunter, hiker or dog walker stumbles upon this stone and remembers it from an article.
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- Feb 17, 2017
Yes, his blog is excellent. All of his other stories are great as well.I am sure this was posted before when this conversation first came up but this is a very good read on the discovery of the remains from a searcher. The area is so desolate the searcher even notes he is NOT going back to the area.
The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans
This is the tale of what for me was a rather remarkable adventure. It was assembled on the basis of my personal recollection and experience, emails, GPS logs and some official documents. It represents solely the perspective and opinions of myself, in my more lucid moments. It is in no way...www.otherhand.org
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- Mar 11, 2017
I think they greatly underestimated "The hottest place on Earth". They probably thought this this visit would be a great story to tell their friends. I think that many times Europeans don't realise how huge or climate diverse the US is. Death Valley alone is 3000 square miles. That's a lot of land to get lost in during the peak of summer.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2020
I never thought this was that spooky. He was drunk and fucking around the cliffs and McFell off. All the other stuff is the coping mechanism of a distraught family grasping at the dumb satanic panic stuff typical for the time