Creepy Unsolved Mysteries - From unsolved murders to unidentified people to unexplained supernatural events, what are some of the creepiest unsolved mysteries you've ever heard of?

[glass_houses]

I disagree with the notion that the Ramseys placing Burke with the Whites speaks of guilt. Think about it - if an intruder wanted to take Burke he would already have done so, and the ransom note makes it clear that John is the target, not the Whites. Interestingly enough JonBenét is never mentioned by name in the ransom note; it's entirely directed towards John, as the practice note found by police contained an address to Patsy that was removed in the final draft. If you think your home's security has been compromised removing your remaining child from the home after the police have been called seems the most rational action to take. Had Burke remained in the home I could see pro-RDI theorists say "they clearly didn't believe a kidnapper was lurking in the home as they left Burke upstairs all day!"

Bro, stop applying logic to a mother who has lost their very young child. Yes, there are some mothers who are careless with their spawn, but the vast majority would have been in full mother bear mode in this kind of situation, and would not have allowed any of their minor children to leave their sight, both during and for some time after events. I can't really emphasise enough just abnormal leaving Burke upstairs by himself was.

 

[The Crescent King]

Bro, stop applying logic to a mother who has lost their very young child. Yes, there are some mothers who are careless with their spawn, but the vast majority would have been in full mother bear mode in this kind of situation, and would not have allowed any of their minor children to leave their sight, both during and for some time after events. I can't really emphasise enough just abnormal leaving Burke upstairs by himself was.

How was it abnormal? The call was made at close to 6am after checking on Burke, and he was sent to the Whites at 8am, so it's not like he was left upstairs for hours at a time. What's abnormal about wanting to spare your son from being traumatised about his sister's disappearance? They were (allegedly) expecting a call from a kidnapper - why keep Burke in the house for that? You're also forgetting that it was Fleet White who suggested that Burke come to his home to spare him from the chaos of the morning; it's not like John and Patsy were desperate to get him out of there. There was no carelessness as you allege as they had no reason to think that the White house was being targeted by JB's kidnapper + there were other children and adults there to look after Burke as John and Patsy were unable to do so that morning.

I also don't get your point about me "not applying logic" to the situation. You are also applying your own reasoning when you say that Patsy allowing Burke to leave the house was unreasonable when that fact is not self-evident. The police didn't object to Burke leaving, nor did they see it as unusual. You yourself are saying that Patsy was in a distressing situation, but because she didn't follow your logic about keeping Burke in her sights when she was a hysterical wreck she must be guilty of something related to JB's death.

I'm not 100% counting out potential Ramsey involvement for a couple of reasons (how uncoperative they were with the police, for example) but I do want to see actual critical thinking, evidence and sound reasoning from RDI theorists and I'm not seeing it at all. I also don't see how because John was reading a Bible passage where the first letter in the initial four sentences spelled "SBTC" (John didn't write any notes in his Bible IIRC) that means he dictated the note. That reasoning would absolutely not stand up in court.

 

[Peaches the Wonder Cat]

Bro, stop applying logic to a mother who has lost their very young child. Yes, there are some mothers who are careless with their spawn, but the vast majority would have been in full mother bear mode in this kind of situation, and would not have allowed any of their minor children to leave their sight, both during and for some time after events. I can't really emphasise enough just abnormal leaving Burke upstairs by himself was.

You are sounding like a female True Crime addict. "I wouldn't have done that, therefore anyone who did [opposite of what I, here in my comfortable chair, think I would have done during an extremely stressful situation] is guilty of something."

Nobody knows how they will react to a stressful situation until it hits.

 

[Turquoise]

An extra Zodiac titbit for you to mull over...

In Nov 1969, a Zodiac correspondence letter included this diagram:

If you add up the numbers of the dates of each of Zodiac's confirmed muders then divide by 5 and minus 10 you get 10, 6 , 11 and 8. If we imagine the symbol as a clock face, each of those numbers are marked with an X.

Jensen/Faraday (12/20/68] = 12 + 20 + 68 = 100 Divided by 5 = 20 -10 = 10

Ferrin/Mageau (7/4/69) = 7 + 4 + 69 = 80 Divided by 5 = 16 – 10 = 6

Hartnell/Sheperd (9/27/69) = 9 + 27 + 69 = 105 Divided by 5 = 21 – 10 = 11

Paul Stine (10/11/69) = 10 + 11 + 69 = 90 Divided by 5 = 18 – 10 =8

You can get the 9 and also the missing 7 by doing the maths on other potential victims. Donna Lass, who was murdered in 1970, after the Nov 1969 letter was sent, could make up the missing number 7. Was Zodiac trying to communicate that number 7 was next?

To lend some support to this theory is Zodiac's writing the dates of his murders on the car door after the Hartnell/Shepherd attack in 1969 as if they were somehow significant.

Coincidence or was Zodiac obsessed with numbers?

 

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

No1currs about Jon Benet Ramsey

 

[The Crescent King]

Also @Twix Eatr

You've claimed that John's fibers were found in JB's underwear, and that fibers from Patsy were found in the duct tape - do you have an actual lab report (not Reddit) substantiating that claim? I ask because in Steve Thomas's deposition he admits that he saw no CBI report substantiating the idea that Patsy contributed to the duct tape fibers but was relying on what another officer allegedly said to him. Steve Thomas openly thinks that Patsy did it, but because the duct tape was dropped on the ground he acknowledges that any fibers could have been transferred due to that, so he doesn't consider four microscopic fibres found on the tape as indicating guilt. How come the lead investigator on the case who is openly PDI makes more modest claims than yourself?

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-fibers.htm

I also cannot find anything indicating that John's shirt fibers were found in JB's crotch from an actual lab report - indeed, that idea comes from a 2000 interrogation where he actually requests the report where this information supposedly comes from, yet it never materialised.

http://www.acandyrose.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm

As an aside, presenting the fiber evidence as "matching" is misleading. Fiber evidence is often shaky in general due to the nature of what fibers are (unlike DNA evidence like saliva or semen), and investigators use the term "consistent with" as opposed to "matching", as it's fairly difficult to prove where fibers come from.

You've also contradicted yourself by saying the unknown male DNA either doesn't exist or comes from a factory worker. The fact is the Ramseys were officially exonerated by Mary Lacey because of the unknown male DNA (so it definitely exists). This post actually contains links to all of the DNA testing reports - samples from JB's long bottoms, fingernails and ligature were examined, and each time John Ramsey was excluded as a contributer. The main contributer across the reports is JB herself and two unknown contributors. I fail to see how DNA from a factory worker would end up on a ligature or her underwear, when Patsy and John's fibers being found is not unusual whatsoever, and weren't even found according to any reports listed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/opbgg4/major_rounds_of_dna_testing_in_the_jonbenet/

Edit: Another site with links to original forensic reports - https://www.jonbenetramsey.com/casefiles/#cbi-serology-and-cora-files

Edit 2: One thing many people interested in the JBR case don't know that a 12 year old girl called Amy (pseudonym) who attended the same dance studio as JBR was sexually assaulted by an unknown assault nine months after JBR's murder: https://www.the-sun.com/news/6702057/rapist-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-night-stalker-mystery/

 

[Twix Eatr]

You've claimed that John's fibers were found in JB's underwear, and that fibers from Patsy were found in the duct tape - do you have an actual lab report (not Reddit) substantiating that claim? I ask because in Steve Thomas's deposition he admits that he saw no CBI report substantiating the idea that Patsy contributed to the duct tape fibers but was relying on what another officer allegedly said to him. Steve Thomas openly admits thinks that Patsy did it, but because the duct tape was dropped on the ground he acknowledges that any fibers could have been transferred due to that, so he doesn't consider four microscopic fibres found on the tape as indicating guilt. How come the lead investigator on the case who is openly PDI makes more modest claims than yourself?

I said, "Fibers from John's shirt were found near her crotch area. Fibers from Patsy's jacket were found on the fibers of the rope of the garotte and the sticky side of the tape used on JBR." They were also found in the paint tray.

I quoted the police interview where they mention the fiber's on John's shirt. The same interview has lots of wrangling on Patsy's jacket fibers, too. The detectives reference the lab reports saying the fibers are identical to those on her jacket.

No, I don't have the lab reports on hand. Why would I need that when your source as a rebuttal acknowledges their presence? I personally find fiber evidence weak to begin with so I don't harp on it too much.

10 In addition to those questions,
11 there are some others that I would like you
12 to think about whether or not we can have
13 Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I
14 understand you are advising her not to today,
15 and those are there are black fibers that,
16 according to our testing that was conducted,
17 that match one of the two shirts that was
18 provided to us by the Ramseys, black shirt.
19 Those are located in the
20 underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in
21 her crotch area, and I believe those are two
22 other areas that we have intended to ask
23 Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in
24 explaining their presence in those locations.

Can you find me the quote from Thomas that says what you claim? These are what I found and they indicate the mishandling of the evidence and crime scene as why they're not strong enough to rely on (because they could easily be challenged by the defense), not because they're unlikely to indicate involvement:

"...on the adhesive side of the duct tape... there were four fibers that were later determined to be microscopically and chemically consistent with four fibers from a piece of clothing that Patsy Ramsey was wearing, and had that piece of tape been removed at autopsy, and the integrity of it maintained, that would have made, I feel, a very compelling argument. But because that tape was removed, and dropped on the floor, a transference argument could certainly be potentially made by any defense in this case, and that's just one example of how a compromised crime scene may, if not irreparably, have damage the subsequent investigation."

"As often happens when detectives start kicking around seemingly unrelated items, we figured out that Patsy’s fur boots might be a possible source for a beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenét’s mouth. It could even have been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA’s office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant."

Here's a quote from Kolar's book Foreign Faction that helps discount the idea of transference from mishandling:

Trujillo advised me that lab technicians had identified eight different types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape that covered Jon Benet's mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic and red polyester fibers that were microscopically and chemically consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy Ramsey's Essentials jacket. Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.

Lab technicians had conducted experiments with the same brand of duct tape, by attempting to lift trace fibers from the blanket recovered in the Wine Cellar. Direct contact was made in different quadrants of the blanket. There was some minimal transfer of jacket fibers made to the tape during this exercise, but Trujillo told me lab technicians didn't think that this type of transfer accounted for the number of jacket fibers that had been found on the sticky side of the tape. It was thought that direct contact between the jacket and tape was more likely the reason for the quantity of fibers found on this piece of evidence.

BPD investigators looked to the other jacket fibers found in the Wine Cellar, in the paint tray, and on the cord used to bind JonBenét as physical evidence that linked Patsy with the probable location of her daughter's death- the basement hallway and Wine Cellar.

The paint tray was reported to have been moved to the basement about a month prior to the kidnapping, and investigators doubted that Patsy would have been working on art projects while wearing the dress jacket. The collection of jacket fibers from all of these different locations raised strong suspicions about her involvement in the crime.

Investigators also learned that fibers collected from the interior lining of the Essentials jacket did not match control samples from the sweater that had been provided to police by Ramsey attorneys. Investigators thought that this suggested she had been wearing some other article of clothing beneath the jacket.

I also cannot find anything indicating that John's shirt fibers were found in JB's crotch from an actual lab report - indeed, that idea comes from a 2000 interrogation where he actually requests the report where this information supposedly comes from, yet it never materialised.
http://www.acandyrose.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm

Yes, and if you read the source you're linking, they reference why they didn't turn it over to them:

2 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
3 something we'd have -- I would have to
4 discuss with Chief Beckner. And I think you
5 can appreciate why, when we are talking about
6 physical evidence in an ongoing investigation,
7 which is not a filed case, that we are
8 reluctant to release reports.

As an aside, presenting the fiber evidence as "matching" is misleading. Fiber evidence is often shaky in general due to the nature of what fibers are (unlike DNA evidence like saliva or semen), and investigators use the term "consistent with" as opposed to "matching", as it's fairly difficult to prove where fibers come from.

Agreed, although they actually do the exact same with DNA, too. They do not say it's a 100% match, but give the odds of it being someone else. Regardless, "match" is the phrasing the detectives used, not me.

You've also contradicted yourself by saying the unknown male DNA either doesn't exist or comes from a factory worker. The fact is the Ramseys were officially exonerated by Mary Lacey because of the unknown male DNA (so it definitely exists). This post actually contains links to all of the DNA testing reports - samples from JB's long bottoms, fingernails and ligature were examined, and each time John Ramsey waa excluded as a contributer. The main contributer across the reports is JB herself and two unknown contributors. I fail to see how DNA from a factory worker would end up on a ligature or her underwear, when Patsy and John's fibers being found is not unusual whatsoever, and weren't even found according to any reports listed here:

There was no contradiction, but I could've worded it clearer. I am not saying there isn't DNA there. I'm saying it's a complete red herring that isn't indicative of what people purport. "Unknown male perpetrator" is not accurate when there are multiple DNA sources and too small an amount to test anything. When there are multiple sources that may be contributing, there is never a match.

Mary Lacey misrepresented the findings entirely and the exoneration was a joke. How do you readily accept the crime scene and evidence being mishandled to disavow fibers, but somehow trace DNA can't get mixed in with others?

I had Grok synthesize for me:

DNA Evidence Limitations: A 2016 joint investigation by the Boulder Daily Camera and 9NEWS revealed that the DNA evidence Lacy relied on was not as conclusive as presented. Forensic experts found that the DNA samples from the long johns contained genetic markers from at least two people in addition to JonBenét, and the sample from her underwear could be a composite of multiple contributors, not necessarily a single individual. The link between the DNA on the long johns and the underwear was described as "tenuous at best," and the Bode reports did not use the term "match" but rather indicated that Unknown Male 1 "could not be excluded" as a contributor.

Criticism of Lacy’s Decision: Several experts and officials have questioned Lacy’s exoneration. Former Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, who led the department from 1998 to 2014, stated in 2015 that exonerating anyone based solely on the DNA was "absurd" because the DNA’s connection to the crime was not proven and other evidence could not be ignored. Similarly, Boulder DA Stan Garnett, Lacy’s successor, called the exoneration "misleading" and noted that the compromised crime scene made definitive conclusions difficult. Former Adams County DA Bob Grant also criticized the move, stating that prosecutors typically exonerate by charging someone else, which Lacy did not do.

lternative Interpretations: Some experts, like biochemist Dan Krane, have suggested that the trace DNA could have been deposited long before the crime or through benign means, as people shed DNA constantly. The crime scene was not secure initially, raising the possibility of contamination. Additionally, a 2016 report noted traces of multiple DNA samples, including six separate profiles from unknown individuals, further complicating the assumption that the DNA belonged to the killer.

Lacy’s Additional Reasoning: Lacy later defended her decision by citing not only the DNA but also other evidence, such as a "butt print" in the carpet outside JonBenét’s bedroom, which she believed supported her intruder theory. However, this detail was not mentioned in her 2008 letter and has been met with skepticism. She also expressed concern about preventing a "travesty of justice," believing the Ramseys were unfairly targeted despite a lack of evidence showing motive or psychopathy.

The DNA is a joke, for sure, but we can agree to disagree. There was also no DNA found on the ligature, which is hard to believe if you think the killers got touch DNA on the long john's and underwear.

Edit 2: One thing many people interested in the JBR case don't know that a 12 year old girl called Amy (pseudonym) who attended the same dance studio as JBR was sexually assaulted by an unknown assault nine months after JBR's murder: https://www.the-sun.com/news/6702057/rapist-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-night-stalker-mystery/

Little girls get molested very often. This is another red herring. Those crimes aren't even remotely similar and you have to ignore mountains of evidence indicating RDI to entertain it. This guy was so sloppy and loud the victim's mother heard, barged in and chased him off. Conveniently, the intruder who killed JBR is a cat burglar who makes no sound, writes a huge ransom note for a dead girl, then escapes without leaving any evidence of his intrusion. Right.

@Farmholio I’ll try to find the study, but sadly I think the younger the child, statistically the death or abuse will be more likely due to the mother. Shit rolls down hill.

I can’t say how much this applies to this situation, but:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/255033/number-of-child-fatalities-due-to-abuse-in-the-us-by-perpetrator-relationship/

But sex abuse stats make it more complicated, leaning more to acquaintances and more towards fathers: https://rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens

It’s so hard to know the true stats due to low reporting. Most people I know who have been abused during childhood never reported. Anyone I know sexually abused by a woman definitely never reported.

All rape/SA stats are out-of-whack because men are rarely considered rapeable

An extra Zodiac titbit for you to mull over...

In Nov 1969, a Zodiac correspondence letter included this diagram:

View attachment 7671266

If you add up the numbers of the dates of each of Zodiac's confirmed muders then divide by 5 and minus 10 you get 10, 6 , 11 and 8. If we imagine the symbol as a clock face, each of those numbers are marked with an X.

Jensen/Faraday (12/20/68] = 12 + 20 + 68 = 100 Divided by 5 = 20 -10 = 10

Ferrin/Mageau (7/4/69) = 7 + 4 + 69 = 80 Divided by 5 = 16 – 10 = 6

Hartnell/Sheperd (9/27/69) = 9 + 27 + 69 = 105 Divided by 5 = 21 – 10 = 11

Paul Stine (10/11/69) = 10 + 11 + 69 = 90 Divided by 5 = 18 – 10 =8

You can get the 9 and also the missing 7 by doing the maths on other potential victims. Donna Lass, who was murdered in 1970, after the Nov 1969 letter was sent, could make up the missing number 7. Was Zodiac trying to communicate that number 7 was next?

To lend some support to this theory is Zodiac's writing the dates of his murders on the car door after the Hartnell/Shepherd attack in 1969 as if they were somehow significant.

Coincidence or was Zodiac obsessed with numbers?

This is nonsensical schizo shit, no offense.

I’m just surprised that someone Joe Deangelo doesn’t have a dozen books about him now in the style of Ann Rule.

Ted talked and talked and talked and talked. He was an extreme narcissist. JJD thought he could fool everyone and never wanted his daughters to know about this. He ruined their lives and wants to go away quietly.

The police have incentive to minimize it, too, because he was certainly on the clock while prowling and doing recon. He was the head of the burglary unit at one point and probably investigated his own crimes. But I agree, it's crazy there isn't more stuff out there about him. He was still calling and tormenting victims!

He also called himself the Unabomber and there's no "b" or "m" in his name, they must have gotten the wrong guy!

University and Airline Bomber

 

[Dysnomia]

Pedro Hernandez's 2017 conviction in the 1979 kidnapping and murder of 6 year old Etan Patz has been overturned. He was interrogated for 8 hours before confessing. During this time he was not read Miranda. The recording of Hernandez confessing was actually a second confession made after he was read his Miranda rights. The appeals court ruled that jurors were given instructions during the deliberation that prejudiced the verdict.

Now this doesn't mean he's innocent. His sister claimed that he confessed at his church in the 1980s. Hernandez has a low IQ and mental health problems. So it's also possible he could have been easily led into a confession by the police if they just wanted to close the case. However, I have a hard time believing his sister would lie unless she really hated him or something. I think this may be another Adam Walsh case in the sense that it's very possible the person we think is the murderer actually did not commit this crime. Ottis Toole was a notorious liar who likely inflated the number of crimes he and his partner Henry Lee Lucas committed. I'm on the fence about Toole since he had a bad history with telling lies. However his niece claimed he made a deathbed confession. I do not buy the Jeffrey Dahmer connection. He did assault a and expose himself to few underage boys. Including brother of victim Konerak Sinthasomphone. But Adam Walsh was 6. Dahmer didn't seem to be attracted to any males younger than teenagers.