Disaster Cuba population decline by a million in two years - Population decline by nearly 10% by people noping the fuck out

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excuse the formating, Miami herald hate you copy pasting


Cuba admits to massive emigration wave: a million people left in two years amid crisis BY NORA GÁMEZ TORRES UPDATED JULY 19, 2024 5:49 PM

A stunning 10% of Cuba’s population — more than a million people — left the island between 2022 and 2023, the head of the country’s national statistics office said during a National Assembly session Friday, the largest migration wave in Cuban history.

The data confirmed reporting by the Miami Herald and Cuban independent media that sounded the alarm over the mass migration of Cubans amid a severe economic downturn and a government crackdown on dissent in recent years.
According to the official figures made public for the first time, Cuba’s population went from 11,181,595 on Dec. 31, 2021, to 10,055,968 on December 2023.

The emigration of 1,011,269 Cubans was the main factor contributing to a massive fall in Cuba’s population by the end of 2023, when the population stood at a number similar to what it was in 1985, said Juan Carlos Alfonso Fraga, the head of the National Statistics and Information Office.
Other factors were a high number of deaths, 405,512, and a low birth rate, with only 284,892 children born in that period, according to figures Fraga provided the assembly.
Most of those migrants have come to the United States in what experts call the most significant migration wave in Cuban history.
According to U.S. border immigration statistics, 645,122 Cubans came to the U.S. seeking asylum at the border with Mexico and through a legal parole program created by the Biden administration from October 2021 to June 2024.

“Such statistics represent the largest migratory flow in the history of Cuba, both before and after the Revolution, much more numerous than any of the previous migratory waves since 1959,” including the Freedom Flights in the 1960s and 1970s, the Mariel exodus in 1980, and the rafter crisis in 1994, said Jorge Duany, an immigration expert who leads the Cuban Research Institute at Florida International University.
“It is reasonable to interpret this drain as a sign of general discontent with the island’s economic and political situation,” he said. “Thousands of Cubans, especially the youngest, have lost faith in the future of their country and have chosen to seek better luck abroad.”

A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE​

The numbers released by the government might be a “very conservative” estimate of the crisis, Duany said.
He cited a recent paper published by the Cuban Research Institute and written by Juan Carlos Albizu-Campos, a professor at the University of Havana, that estimates the real population decrease was 18 percent, to 8.62 million, between 2022 and 2023.
Fraga, the official sharing the new data, said the latest population count was calculated by applying the new definition of “effective residence,” which is included in a new migration law proposal approved by the National Assembly on Friday. The official explained that his office counted in the current population Cubans who spent at least 181 days on the island each calendar year to arrive at the “effective population” figure.
Previously, the government had obscured the real extent of the ongoing migration crisis by counting those living abroad since 2020 as residents on the island. That year, the government issued a moratorium on the 24-month limit that Cubans were allowed to stay overseas before they lost their permanent residence on the island and other political and property rights.

Fraga said that of the million-plus people who left the island between 2022 and 2023, about 800,000 were between the ages of 15 and 59, which, combined with the island’s increasingly older population, would significantly affect the labor force, the cost of social programs and the sustainability of social security.
He added that the downward trend in population has continued so far this year and that the island currently has less than 10 million people.

A BLEAK PROSPECT​

It was a somber moment that capped a week of National Assembly sessions in which government officials shared data revealing the extent of the economic crisis and the failure of current government policies meant to increase production, address widespread shortages, deal with and crumbling infrastructure and tame inflation.
In particular, food production has collapsed in the country.
Alexis Rodríguez Pérez, a senior official at the Ministry of Agriculture, said the country produced 15,200 tons of beef in the first six months of this year. As a comparison, Cuba produced 172,300 tons of beef in 2022, already down 40% from 289,100 in 1989.
Pork production fared even worse. The country produced barely 3,800 tons in the first six months of this year, compared to 149,000 tons in all of 2018.
Almost every other sector reported losses and failed production goals.

The government has blamed the crisis on stricter U.S. sanctions, the COVID-19 pandemic and high international prices of food, oil and other supplies. However, the situation has become so dismal that even in the controlled setting of the National Assembly, government officials and assembly members repeatedly referred to the failures of the government’s policies and controls.
Discussions at the National Assembly have also unsettled many people in Cuba because senior officials failed to show concrete plans to fix the economy. If anything, many fear that the policies announced at the assembly might make matters worse.

In particular, Cuban Prime Minister Manuel Marrero announced several new restrictions on the island’s private sector that, if enacted, could imperil its survival and aggravate food shortages. Marrero insisted that the Cuban government would not deviate from a centrally planned economy where “socialist state enterprises” are predominant.
Speaking to a Cuban news website, a leading economist living on the island, Omar Everlany Pérez Villanueva, shared his pessimism regarding the new policies, which he dismissed as “rhetoric” as opposed to the “structural changes that the country needs, which would lead to an increase in the production of goods, especially food.

“If in the socialist world that remains today, most of the companies are not state-owned, I wonder how a small country, without energy resources and blocked by the greatest power in the world, could make them work,” he said, referring to the U.S. embargo. “I hope I’m wrong because I want the country to prosper with its children and not to have them leave in despair.”


Insert "not real communism" here
 
I took a class in college on the Cold War and one of the topic was Cuba post-breakup of the USSR. One of the other students was yammering about how the state of Cuba is all the US fault because of the embargo and we need to let them have access to US goods and the usual blather. I piped up and said Cuba can trade with every other nation on Earth, and does with places like France, UK, Japan, Germany, Brazil, Italy, Spain, so on and so forth... so why can't Cuba get it together without the US? It's not the US fault that all Cuba has to offer is cigars and child sex tourism. If the Havana braintrust is so good, why did they need Moscow to foot their bills for thirty some years and why can't they fix their problems without us?

Of course I didn't get an answer.
 
It's not the US fault that all Cuba has to offer is cigars and child sex tourism. If the Havana braintrust is so good, why did they need Moscow to foot their bills for thirty some years and why can't they fix their problems without us?
Cuba's main draws were that it was in the Caribbean, 80 miles from Miami, and mostly not black. Without US tourism they really had jack shit in terms of income potential, and too small of a population to develop any major industry of their own.
 
Cuba's main draws were that it was in the Caribbean, 80 miles from Miami, and mostly not black. Without US tourism they really had jack shit in terms of income potential, and too small of a population to develop any major industry of their own.
I guess Castro and friends should have thought of that before they shut the mob's casinos down.
 
I guess Castro and friends should have thought of that before they shut the mob's casinos down.
Probably could have avoided it entirely they did some things differently after the Revolution. The US didn't really like Batista that much.

But hey, we'd have Communism in 20 years like Khrushchev said.
 
I can help you with that.

I dont know cuba, but look at it this way. You can grow a cash crop, like tabacco or sugar, bonus points if you refine that crop into a value added product like say rum or someshit.

your gonna need to import fuel and fertilizer. Fertillizer allows you to produce 4x as much crop per land.

To get these imports you need cash, hence you grow stuff as a cash crop. So lets say a lb of tabacco is 2.50$ but a pound of wheat is $.31 I m pulling this shit off google. So what you do is grow the tabacco sell it for 2.50 and then use the price difference to buy the food stables and boom cash generation.

Tropical economies really do suck, its basically agriculture and tourism and covid fucked their ability to get tourist dollars
This is the issue, not communism. Crop production per capita mostly tracks with fertility, growing season, and low population, not ideology. Cuba actually has really high per capita crop production.

The problem is that Cuba grows cash crops like tobacco, coffee, and sugar cane for the same reason that African shitholes do: responding to the market. Cash crops make money. Moreover, Cuba has been growing those crops for centuries. The established industrial infrastructure and agricultural knowledge base revolved around tobacco, coffee, and especially sugar cane. For tobacco & coffee this isn't much of an issue as their land share collapsed pretty early and that land was moved into other crop production, but sugar cane is a water-hungry crop that competes with rice for agricultural land but makes MUCH more money.

After the Soviet Bloc collapsed and sugar exports crashed you saw a big bump in vegetable production. Veggies make more than paddy farming, but less than sugar. They probably converted the land that isn't ideal for sugar production into veggies - it was only planted to sugar cane because the USSR was their literal sugar daddy. But rice production stayed flat because it's a paddy crop and directly competes with very wet prime sugarcane farmland while making much much less money.

This is why the embargo hurts Cuba so much- they depend on exporting their cash crops and importing cereals to remain viable as a country, but are shut out of this huge market that's right next door. They already nixed their coffee and tobacco production drastically, losing two cash crops that would in a free trade environment have yielded wayyyy more money than they do now growing food. The embargo doesn't even exist for political reasons anymore - Cuba has a much better climate for sugar production, and US producers don't want to compete with them. It's more of a protectionist measure than anything else. Same for existing tobacco/coffee companies who know that Cuba also has a prime environment to grow these crops and cut into their business.

But people don't want to admit that so they spin some retarded line about how the country is fucked because of communism and the embargo is some heroic gesture by the US to try and liberate them from their oppressive government that is starving them. If Cuba went from worshipping Castro to Ayn Rand tomorrow the American government would still find a way to keep the embargo in place as long as Cuba remained nationalist and didn't let American companies buy up their farmland.

I mean I support protectionism and think that governments should put protectionist measures in place, and agriculture is one of the few industries in which the US is still very fiercely protectionist. But just be honest about what's being done. The protectionist policies are working and as a result nearby countries that rely on agricultural exports, especially cash crop exports, are much more of a shithole than they were before those policies went into effect. Europe is also protectionist when it comes to agriculture.
 
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During the pre-WW2 years they were a major producer of chromium ore. Any idea what happened there?
That ore is still there, the commies running the mining operations are just retarded.

Cuba should have been the Jewel of the Caribbean and probably would have been if Batista didn't do his coup.

Or Fidel and company got shot/imprisoned for DECADES like they should have (by law) been after the Moncada barracks attack.
 
This is what I've never understood from the infinite immigration people. What do you do when the countries they're leaving have too few people to function normally? Nobody wants to go there or they wouldn't be leaving so you can't recursively use immigration as the answer.
It is a 2 for 1 special. The countries they leave fall apart AND the country they move to falls apart. The only logical solution is globalization and communism. Ignore all the rape, murder, and pedophilia that comes with this racist bigot
 
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This is what I've never understood from the infinite immigration people. What do you do when the countries they're leaving have too few people to function normally? Nobody wants to go there or they wouldn't be leaving so you can't recursively use immigration as the answer.
Most people aren't coming from those countries anymore. The famous Cuban healthcare system was actually good at some things, and that includes distributing contraceptives and teaching family planning that gave Cuba a very low birth rate.
Socialized agriculture. The Soviets had to import wheat from the US for the same reason, despite having the richest farmland on Earth in the chernozem soils of Ukraine
This is a misleading claim since the USSR was regularly exporting wheat, including IIRC Cuba. Even the so-called "Holodomor" which affected most of Russia too originated because the government exported too much wheat because of the central planning system's inefficiencies.
 
This is a misleading claim since the USSR was regularly exporting wheat, including IIRC Cuba. Even the so-called "Holodomor" which affected most of Russia too originated because the government exported too much wheat because of the central planning system's inefficiencies.
It wasn't just bad central planning and Stalin using wheat exports as his diplomatic sweetener in the 30's, it was also that he put a party apparatchik that thought he could grow wheat in Archangelsk and other places it had no business growing because he was a lysenko-ist who thought he could radically change wheat's tendencies by fucking with its seeds, and consequently let a lot of Ukraine go fallow for a few years and then came up with an excuse to blame the few farmers who weren't willing to listen to his bullshit.
 
This is a misleading claim since the USSR was regularly exporting wheat, including IIRC Cuba. Even the so-called "Holodomor" which affected most of Russia too originated because the government exported too much wheat because of the central planning system's inefficiencies.
Quit acting like it was all just a little oopsie. The USSR knew what it was doing via mass confiscation of food from its agricultural areas. There were a lot of unhappy farmers after collectivization cost them their lands and independence who due to the increased mechanization the USSR was putting in place conveniently weren't needed anymore.
 
This is absolutely nuts:
Alexis Rodríguez Pérez, a senior official at the Ministry of Agriculture, said the country produced 15,200 tons of beef in the first six months of this year. As a comparison, Cuba produced 172,300 tons of beef in 2022, already down 40% from 289,100 in 1989.
Pork production fared even worse. The country produced barely 3,800 tons in the first six months of this year, compared to 149,000 tons in all of 2018.
Almost every other sector reported losses and failed production goals.

Why exactly has production crashed so hard in those sectors? They mention COVID and the cost of supplies in the text following but that seems to be an incredible drop of production in a very short time. You could write a whole article on just that.

I took a quick look at Google: https://translatingcuba.com/beginni...laughter-of-livestock-in-cuba-will-be-banned/

It seems they are having trouble simply maintaining livestock populations and it's been happening for minute. This is really interesting, a section of their agricultural endeavours seems to be outright collapsing.
 
This is a misleading claim since the USSR was regularly exporting wheat, including IIRC Cuba. Even the so-called "Holodomor" which affected most of Russia too originated because the government exported too much wheat because of the central planning system's inefficiencies.
Not after the early 1970s, they were importing significant amounts from that point on.
 
But people don't want to admit that so they spin some retarded line about how the country is fucked because of communism and the embargo is some heroic gesture by the US to try and liberate them from their oppressive government that is starving them. If Cuba went from worshipping Castro to Ayn Rand tomorrow the American government would still find a way to keep the embargo in place as long as Cuba remained nationalist and didn't let American companies buy up their farmland.
Yep. This is why the US hates Cuba still, despite modern Cuba being rather globohomo for an old school commie country. They want to take the land and resources for themselves. People talk about how awesome Cuba was before Castro, but neglect to mention that it was just a playground for rich Americans, the Mafia, and the Cuban elite while most Cubans lived like serfs working the sugar plantations. Castro didn't even go for communism until two years after his revolution. He wasn't really much different than FDR or the average leftist American politician before then, but even though the US regularly electing people like that, it was somehow bad when Cuba did it. Okay. Hell, your average Democrat now is doing worse than Castro did minus the labor camps (so far, they want them).
Quit acting like it was all just a little oopsie. The USSR knew what it was doing via mass confiscation of food from its agricultural areas. There were a lot of unhappy farmers after collectivization cost them their lands and independence who due to the increased mechanization the USSR was putting in place conveniently weren't needed anymore.
Except there's not a single document that suggests the government ever wanted to starve people. If you actually check the primary sources, the Soviet government actually sent grain for famine relief once it became obvious there was a famine. I suggest reading Dr. Mark Tauger's work on the so-called "Holodomor."
ukfam.jpg
 
This is absolutely nuts:


Why exactly has production crashed so hard in those sectors? They mention COVID and the cost of supplies in the text following but that seems to be an incredible drop of production in a very short time. You could write a whole article on just that.

I took a quick look at Google: https://translatingcuba.com/beginni...laughter-of-livestock-in-cuba-will-be-banned/

It seems they are having trouble simply maintaining livestock populations and it's been happening for minute. This is really interesting, a section of their agricultural endeavours seems to be outright collapsing.
If I had to guess it's because of the general rise in food prices. The feed for your animals is more expensive. The food for your family is more expensive. And your animals, because they are food, are more expensive. On an individual level, it makes sense to cull the herd and sell the meat at a high price - you save on higher feed prices and can now afford higher general food prices. The same pressures drastically increase the drive to steal, and the drive to steal further increases the drive to sell - can't steal livestock that's been butchered and sold. However what makes sense on an individual can be disastrous on a collective level - the government understands that a massive culling of livestock in the country will be completely disastrous if food prices continue to rise so are trying to put a stop to it.
 
Yep. This is why the US hates Cuba still, despite modern Cuba being rather globohomo for an old school commie country. They want to take the land and resources for themselves. People talk about how awesome Cuba was before Castro, but neglect to mention that it was just a playground for rich Americans, the Mafia, and the Cuban elite while most Cubans lived like serfs working the sugar plantations. Castro didn't even go for communism until two years after his revolution. He wasn't really much different than FDR or the average leftist American politician before then, but even though the US regularly electing people like that, it was somehow bad when Cuba did it. Okay. Hell, your average Democrat now is doing worse than Castro did minus the labor camps (so far, they want them).
American companies - and therefore American politicians, who are whores for their donors - were very happy with Cuba's tobacco/coffee/sugar/rum industry when American oligarchs controlled those industries and were profiting heavily from them. The bribes - sorry, campaign donations - flowed like honey. Since they were booted out of the country, any Cuban industry is now competition that cuts into those same income streams which they once augmented. The reason they didn't have any problem with Chinese communists was because the Chinese were more clever than the Cubans - they let the American companies in, and let the businesses and politicians get their beaks very wet. They also aligned against the USSR at a time when US foreign policy wasn't just a bunch of deranged wine moms trying to play Paradox games IRL.

The Chinese understood that American politicians and businessmen are insanely shortsighted. They either didn't realize that the Chinese intended to steal all their IP and undercut them, or they didn't care because the executives would have long golden-parachuted out of their positions by then while the politicians would have retired to generous sinecures in the defense industry. The Cubans were a bit slow - they should have read more Marx. The capitalists will gladly sell you the rope with which you hang them.
 
So either we send them back, or Florida won't vote democrat for a generation.

It would be a hard choice if globalists felt the need to be consistent.
 
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