Disaster Cuba population decline by a million in two years - Population decline by nearly 10% by people noping the fuck out

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excuse the formating, Miami herald hate you copy pasting


Cuba admits to massive emigration wave: a million people left in two years amid crisis BY NORA GÁMEZ TORRES UPDATED JULY 19, 2024 5:49 PM

A stunning 10% of Cuba’s population — more than a million people — left the island between 2022 and 2023, the head of the country’s national statistics office said during a National Assembly session Friday, the largest migration wave in Cuban history.

The data confirmed reporting by the Miami Herald and Cuban independent media that sounded the alarm over the mass migration of Cubans amid a severe economic downturn and a government crackdown on dissent in recent years.
According to the official figures made public for the first time, Cuba’s population went from 11,181,595 on Dec. 31, 2021, to 10,055,968 on December 2023.

The emigration of 1,011,269 Cubans was the main factor contributing to a massive fall in Cuba’s population by the end of 2023, when the population stood at a number similar to what it was in 1985, said Juan Carlos Alfonso Fraga, the head of the National Statistics and Information Office.
Other factors were a high number of deaths, 405,512, and a low birth rate, with only 284,892 children born in that period, according to figures Fraga provided the assembly.
Most of those migrants have come to the United States in what experts call the most significant migration wave in Cuban history.
According to U.S. border immigration statistics, 645,122 Cubans came to the U.S. seeking asylum at the border with Mexico and through a legal parole program created by the Biden administration from October 2021 to June 2024.

“Such statistics represent the largest migratory flow in the history of Cuba, both before and after the Revolution, much more numerous than any of the previous migratory waves since 1959,” including the Freedom Flights in the 1960s and 1970s, the Mariel exodus in 1980, and the rafter crisis in 1994, said Jorge Duany, an immigration expert who leads the Cuban Research Institute at Florida International University.
“It is reasonable to interpret this drain as a sign of general discontent with the island’s economic and political situation,” he said. “Thousands of Cubans, especially the youngest, have lost faith in the future of their country and have chosen to seek better luck abroad.”

A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE​

The numbers released by the government might be a “very conservative” estimate of the crisis, Duany said.
He cited a recent paper published by the Cuban Research Institute and written by Juan Carlos Albizu-Campos, a professor at the University of Havana, that estimates the real population decrease was 18 percent, to 8.62 million, between 2022 and 2023.
Fraga, the official sharing the new data, said the latest population count was calculated by applying the new definition of “effective residence,” which is included in a new migration law proposal approved by the National Assembly on Friday. The official explained that his office counted in the current population Cubans who spent at least 181 days on the island each calendar year to arrive at the “effective population” figure.
Previously, the government had obscured the real extent of the ongoing migration crisis by counting those living abroad since 2020 as residents on the island. That year, the government issued a moratorium on the 24-month limit that Cubans were allowed to stay overseas before they lost their permanent residence on the island and other political and property rights.

Fraga said that of the million-plus people who left the island between 2022 and 2023, about 800,000 were between the ages of 15 and 59, which, combined with the island’s increasingly older population, would significantly affect the labor force, the cost of social programs and the sustainability of social security.
He added that the downward trend in population has continued so far this year and that the island currently has less than 10 million people.

A BLEAK PROSPECT​

It was a somber moment that capped a week of National Assembly sessions in which government officials shared data revealing the extent of the economic crisis and the failure of current government policies meant to increase production, address widespread shortages, deal with and crumbling infrastructure and tame inflation.
In particular, food production has collapsed in the country.
Alexis Rodríguez Pérez, a senior official at the Ministry of Agriculture, said the country produced 15,200 tons of beef in the first six months of this year. As a comparison, Cuba produced 172,300 tons of beef in 2022, already down 40% from 289,100 in 1989.
Pork production fared even worse. The country produced barely 3,800 tons in the first six months of this year, compared to 149,000 tons in all of 2018.
Almost every other sector reported losses and failed production goals.

The government has blamed the crisis on stricter U.S. sanctions, the COVID-19 pandemic and high international prices of food, oil and other supplies. However, the situation has become so dismal that even in the controlled setting of the National Assembly, government officials and assembly members repeatedly referred to the failures of the government’s policies and controls.
Discussions at the National Assembly have also unsettled many people in Cuba because senior officials failed to show concrete plans to fix the economy. If anything, many fear that the policies announced at the assembly might make matters worse.

In particular, Cuban Prime Minister Manuel Marrero announced several new restrictions on the island’s private sector that, if enacted, could imperil its survival and aggravate food shortages. Marrero insisted that the Cuban government would not deviate from a centrally planned economy where “socialist state enterprises” are predominant.
Speaking to a Cuban news website, a leading economist living on the island, Omar Everlany Pérez Villanueva, shared his pessimism regarding the new policies, which he dismissed as “rhetoric” as opposed to the “structural changes that the country needs, which would lead to an increase in the production of goods, especially food.

“If in the socialist world that remains today, most of the companies are not state-owned, I wonder how a small country, without energy resources and blocked by the greatest power in the world, could make them work,” he said, referring to the U.S. embargo. “I hope I’m wrong because I want the country to prosper with its children and not to have them leave in despair.”


Insert "not real communism" here
 
Except there's not a single document that suggests the government ever wanted to starve people. If you actually check the primary sources, the Soviet government actually sent grain for famine relief once it became obvious there was a famine. I suggest reading Dr. Mark Tauger's work on the so-called "Holodomor."
It's likely that the Soviet government did not intend to wipe out the Ukrainians as is so often alleged, but the Soviet government did engage in an economic policy which deliberately ignored the risks to the peasantry's life and well-being. Collectivization was a deliberate method of breaking the political power of the peasant class, not an economic necessity. That it was carried out without regard to the safety of those affected is rather like many of the other projects undertaken by the Soviets, but in this instance it was most destructive because of ideological motivation, similar to the 1921-1922 famine brought about by Lenin.
 
Daily reminder that before communism cuba was one of the leading latin american economies and a net exporter of food.

Now they are among the poorest and a net importer of food with most of its population in some degree of malnutrition.

The embargo didn't do shit, cubans can still trade with everybody else, countries like brazil trade more with china than with us now. Problem is cuba has NOTHING to export because communism as usual destroyed their economy.
 
This is what I've never understood from the infinite immigration people. What do you do when the countries they're leaving have too few people to function normally? Nobody wants to go there or they wouldn't be leaving so you can't recursively use immigration as the answer.
THIS.

Excellent question, the same question that's raising its' head in many places, such as Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy, Russia, Ukraine, China, the list goes on.

In the vast majority of countries the birth rate's been going down, past replacement level, for decades now. The USA is in much the same fix re births but immigration keeps population up and fairly young.

Japan's wrestling this issue by using robots more and more and allowing some immigration. Cuba cannot do this.

Advise checking out Peter Zeihan's YT videos on this matter, very informative.
 
Daily reminder that before communism cuba was one of the leading latin american economies and a net exporter of food.

Now they are among the poorest and a net importer of food with most of its population in some degree of malnutrition.

The embargo didn't do shit, cubans can still trade with everybody else, countries like brazil trade more with china than with us now. Problem is cuba has NOTHING to export because communism as usual destroyed their economy.
Cuba likely still exports some sugar and some doctors. But doubt those exports cover their imports.
 
It's likely that the Soviet government did not intend to wipe out the Ukrainians as is so often alleged, but the Soviet government did engage in an economic policy which deliberately ignored the risks to the peasantry's life and well-being. Collectivization was a deliberate method of breaking the political power of the peasant class, not an economic necessity. That it was carried out without regard to the safety of those affected is rather like many of the other projects undertaken by the Soviets, but in this instance it was most destructive because of ideological motivation, similar to the 1921-1922 famine brought about by Lenin.
Would say my namesake went for a twofer - eradicating any Ukrainian resistance to his rule and breaking the hold of the kulaks through collectivization.

This happened in the 32-34 time frame. A couple of years' break then the 37-38 purges, which took even more Ukrainians.

But come June 41 many, many Ukrainians not only greeted the invading Axis forces as liberators, you had hundreds of thousnds of Ukrainians fighting alongside the Germans and likely also working in German war industries.

Ukrainian insurgents killed Soviet General Nikolai Vatutin in 1944.

 
Holy shit... are these numbers included in the overall inbound immigrant count? It's some loophole program started under Biden.

I love America, I really do. It's still great but another 20 years like the last and it'll really start to show. It's such a shame. What a waste. It was the best we've ever done and now it's ending.
 
Cuba likely still exports some sugar and some doctors. But doubt those exports cover their imports.
Their sugar is more expensive and of lower quality than Brazilian and even Argentine sugar. Their doctors are barely nurses and not even other latino countries besides Venezuela hire them.
 
As I've said many times, why does it matter? Population crunches are preferable to famine and war decimating your numbers instead.
Luckily, there are plenty of Cubans in the USA who should be incentivized to go back. Better them than pajeets.
 
Same story, different industry. If you want a more recent example, look at Venezuela which destroyed all of their country's previously productive industries. The fucked up so many things that a lot of Venezuelans (the ones that haven't fled the country at least) make a living farming for virtual currencies in online games that they sell to to westerners.

I remember hearing the story about Venezuelans breaking into zoos to eat the animals, because they literally didn't have anything else to eat.
 
Their sugar is more expensive and of lower quality than Brazilian and even Argentine sugar. Their doctors are barely nurses and not even other latino countries besides Venezuela hire them.
Their tobacco isn't even worth it, especially as the Cuban expats who set up farms using Cuban seeds have gotten the newer generations of plants dialed in for the local growing conditions and are as good or even better than Cuba's. The only thing that keeps up any demand for Cuban tobacco is the mystique of it. In reality the really good stuff is generally Dominican at this point.

All you get with Cuban tobacco is stuff you need to quarantine for months in conditions that degrade it because 95% of the leaves are infested with tobacco beetle eggs that hatch and chew holes in every cigar around them. Pretty much every other producer can keep the beetles under control but somehow that's not possible in Cuba. No one really wants a cigar full of larvae.
 
Their tobacco isn't even worth it, especially as the Cuban expats who set up farms using Cuban seeds have gotten the newer generations of plants dialed in for the local growing conditions and are as good or even better than Cuba's. The only thing that keeps up any demand for Cuban tobacco is the mystique of it. In reality the really good stuff is generally Dominican at this point.

All you get with Cuban tobacco is stuff you need to quarantine for months in conditions that degrade it because 95% of the leaves are infested with tobacco beetle eggs that hatch and chew holes in every cigar around them. Pretty much every other producer can keep the beetles under control but somehow that's not possible in Cuba. No one really wants a cigar full of larvae.
Yep and the best Rum makers got the hell out to the DR as well.

The Cubans are still ultra asshurt that the Bacardi family left.

I will say that the Cuban rum and cigar rations are pretty good but pound for pound Cuban tobacco products stopped being amazing a few decades ago and are running off of good memories from the 1950s.
 
Their tobacco isn't even worth it, especially as the Cuban expats who set up farms using Cuban seeds have gotten the newer generations of plants dialed in for the local growing conditions and are as good or even better than Cuba's. The only thing that keeps up any demand for Cuban tobacco is the mystique of it. In reality the really good stuff is generally Dominican at this point.

All you get with Cuban tobacco is stuff you need to quarantine for months in conditions that degrade it because 95% of the leaves are infested with tobacco beetle eggs that hatch and chew holes in every cigar around them. Pretty much every other producer can keep the beetles under control but somehow that's not possible in Cuba. No one really wants a cigar full of larvae.
Are anyone shock that quailty went to shit after decades of communism mismangment?
 
Except there's not a single document that suggests the government ever wanted to starve people. If you actually check the primary sources, the Soviet government actually sent grain for famine relief once it became obvious there was a famine. I suggest reading Dr. Mark Tauger's work on the so-called "Holodomor."
ukfam.jpg
Did I not just see you in the Ireland thread telling everyone how awesome jews are? Who was massively (((over represented))) in the bolsheviks? Really joggin' my noggin'.
 
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