DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
yeah actually looking into it a bit more she actually looked like that from the mid 1940s all the way until the late 80s.
To be fair, Catwoman disappeared from the comics in the mid 1950s until 1966 due to the Comics Code. For a time in the late 1960s to mid 1970s, she also had two short lived costumes (green suit and mask and then a black bodysuit with light blue tights and red mask) The mid 1970s brought back the late 1940s costume until Crisis.
Catwoman_0100.jpg
 
To be fair, Catwoman disappeared from the comics in the mid 1950s until 1966 due to the Comics Code.
Which is funny, considering Catwoman would still appear in the TV series from the 60s where Lee Meriwether, Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt, respectively, played her. So if anything, her TV appearance became popular that she ended up returning to the comic
 
To be fair, Catwoman disappeared from the comics in the mid 1950s until 1966 due to the Comics Code. For a time in the late 1960s to mid 1970s, she also had two short lived costumes (green suit and mask and then a black bodysuit with light blue tights and red mask) The mid 1970s brought back the late 1940s costume until Crisis.
View attachment 5944872
thanks! that is interesting. that period in Batman is a big blindspot for me. silver age batman is something I've looked at hardly any of (outside of the Black Casebook collection of stuff that informed Morrison's run & World's Finest) I love the TV series but that period of Batman is so sci-fi I never had much of an interest in it because I've read all the Silver Age Superman/Flash/Green Lantern/Hawkman stuff and a lot of it is lots of fun and those characters lend themselves more to that type of thing so I have/had 0 context for who if any main Batman villains were used during that period of time.
 
focus on making the shit quit talking to strangers online.
meh, i can see where he's coming from, back in the early days of the internet when he was a literal who it was fairly normal to answer the one question a day you might get from fans. especially in the low budget world that sort of interactivity can supercharge a persons fandom especially because it was a lot harder to communicate with say Ben Affleck vs Doug Sakmann. Imagine if somehow Kiwifarms suddely became the #1 social media site, obviously null would still act the same and treat the website as such even if its detrimental to everyone involved. FFS his blog is the reason he's at warnerbros instead of being blamed for how awful Marvel is doing right now.
No actress has ever brought such enthusiasm to the role as Lee Meriwether
why do i have a feeling catgirls only exploded in popularity after the tv show, as that one guy said catwoman is a relic from the golden era.
 
Speaking of X-Men, somebody asked James Gunn if he'd considered allowing a similar continuation to Justice League Unlimited. the short of it is he said no. and I have a few thoughts on this.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would want a continuation of JLU since the show had a pretty conclusive ending.
 
Honestly I don't know why anyone would want a continuation of JLU since the show had a pretty conclusive ending.
yeah that was part of my point, it ended perfectly, and really beyond that there isn't really any major JLA stuff in the last 15 years I'd want them to adapt in it anyways. they pretty much covered all the characters and stories I would have wanted to see them do. most of n52 and after JLA has just been remixes of stuff we had already seen or just a setup book for shitty events, the one thing I really wanted them to do as a kid back when it was on was a real adaptation of death and return of superman over a few episodes but in the years since we had 3 piss poor animated movies based on it, and 2 piss poor live action movies vaguely using elements of it and I no longer ever want to see that story adapted anywhere.
 
The DCAU's main problem IMO is it's now choking DC's creativity and perspectives as the "definitive" DCU for millennials and older zoomers.

Hear me out.

We all know Batman the Animated Series very quickly became THE Batman for everyone back in the day, followed by the DCAU versions in general. Of course it did! You can't go wrong praising the DCAU, it earned its success and helped make DC a pop culture mainstay in the 90s and 00s. And that's because especially in Batman's case it distilled the character into a cohesive whole getting to his roots while cherry-picking good bits from his entire media history to throw into the mix. And I said 90s and 00s - it went on as a roughly continuous story for a long time.

Look at how so much DC fandom since then deals with it: you always see new characters or adaptions "converted" to DCAU-style in fanart for example. But look at all the fanboys crying how the DCEU should've just adapted the DCAU wholesale, or now we see DC Comics itself milking BTAS with that "Lost Years" comic, or whatever. So many of the remaining comics nerds have never quite moved on from the glory days of the DCAU and instead of whipping up a new definitive Batman using all the stuff created since the DCAU they just want to go back to it. I mean comics fans in general are notorious for wanting to go back to the past, but in this case.... what was once one of DC's biggest bursts of creativity has instead become a millstone around its neck.

I also firmly believe it via BTAS in particular solidified DC's over-reliance on Batman. While Superman's animated series and JL-JLU were also considered fantastic, you can tell the DCAU runners weren't quite into them as they were Batman and of course Batman was the lynchpin of the whole 'verse. So naturally future DC comics or media makers from back then would grow up naturally understanding Batman's world better than any other DC hero's or finding him the most interesting.
 
The DCAU's main problem IMO is it's now choking DC's creativity and perspectives as the "definitive" DCU for millennials and older zoomers.
I agree with you 100%. for me it is my Batman specifically, and I like everything else in it (outside the Zeta project that show sucked). my pop and brother had taped all of BTAS as it aired and I was a kid during Superman through JLU. watched 'em all religiously. they managed to cherry pick everything to make a distilled cohesive thing, and it worked wonderfully. however we are so far removed from it and there is nothing like that with DC today. what they should copy from the DCAU is that aspect, but we have another 20 years of material since to crib from. I think the reliance on Batman is probably a mixture of DCAU and the fact that the only DC movies that didn't suck were the first two Batman movies.

I don't want them to go back to the DCAU unless it's Beyondverse stuff because that was always an open door to do whatever the fuck they want (although Terry being Bruce's kid was always fucking stupid, that might have been the first time I got angry at something I liked lol although I always had questions about his parenting anyways why the fuck did he have a vaguely scottish dad and an also redhead mom but he and his brother are asian??) but going back to the well with it is retarded they should learn the lessons of WHY it worked. and why everytime they have gone back it hasn't. JL Infinity, Batman Lost Years, Batman/Harley Quinn, JLA vs Fatal Five, all fucking sucked ass.

what we have is a generation of people who have never read a comic book who only know DC through the DCAU. which is fine to some extent it's a good representation (better than the same thing we have with Marvel fans who only know the MCU) and need it to be the same shit. but even the people who made the shows can't make it work anymore, why would someone ripping it off be able to do it? we don't need the DCAU again, we need something that accomplishes the same thing of taking the essence of the characters and running with it for today.

one thing I will say is personally I never liked the Bruce Timm character designs after the original incarnation of BTAS, TNBA/Superman and on I always thought they were kinda ugly, too square looking and weird but that isn't a real critique of anything, never took me out of it but I just never liked them.
 
@Mayor Cody Travers
I am 50/50 on your perspective of the DCAU. I think it did damage, particularly in how everything besides Teen Titans was seen as lesser afterwards. The Batman, B&B, and others all were very good adaptations with plenty of material to take that the wider DC fandom screwed over for years.

On the other hand, I disagree with the DCAU impacting DC on the overreliance off Batman and how they treat their wider universe poorly. I believe Batwank was more a product of the Dark Knight. The whole dark realism shtick of Batman started there and DC kept extending it into characters where it didn't belong such as Superman or Green Arrow. The Injustice video games also did far more damage than anything in the DCAU, with evil Superman and dark-edgy heroes that can go rogue being a staple now. Injustice was also the ultimate Batwank fantasy next to Tower of Babel/Justice League Doom.

While Superman's animated series and JL-JLU were also considered fantastic, you can tell the DCAU runners weren't quite into them as they were Batman and of course Batman was the lynchpin of the whole 'verse.
I didn't get this from the DCAU. Superman was easily the main IP come Justice League and the best story arcs and moments are relegated to him. Cadmus may as well have been a Superman story feat the Justice League. The last season of JLU was practically Lex's show, and, in all honesty, most of JL seemed to be Lex's narrative more than anybody else. Even the non-Beyond ending was focused around Superman getting his world of cardboard speech while beating Darkseid.

The DCAU felt like a good 50/50 split between Batman and Superman.

one thing I will say is personally I never liked the Bruce Timm character designs after the original incarnation of BTAS, TNBA/Superman and on I always thought they were kinda ugly, too square looking and weird but that isn't a real critique of anything, never took me out of it but I just never liked them.
I never minded them. He did it because BTAS had struggles getting animated overseas, so he simplified the designs.
 
Last edited:
On the other hand, I disagree with the DCAU impacting DC on the overreliance off Batman and how they treat their wider universe poorly. I believe Batwank was more a product of the Dark Knight. The whole dark realism shtick of Batman started there and DC kept extending it into characters where it didn't belong such as Superman or Green Arrow. The Injustice video games also did far more damage than anything in the DCAU, with evil Superman and dark-edgy heroes that can go rogue being a staple now. Injustice was also the ultimate Batwank fantasy next to Tower of Babel/Justice League Doom.
I think you're right to some extent, but it started earlier. it didn't necessarily permeate into everything else like it did after TDK where Green Arrow on CW was basically just a shitty Dark Knight trilogy Batman show down to it's first season doing the plot beats of TDKR and the later seasons being the Ra's Al Ghul thing, but it started in the early 90s in comics. due to the success of Batman, Returns and BTAS Batman went all in with there being a mini series and one shots every month, Batfamily titles became the main focus point of the DCU. Superman had tons of ongoings at the time too, but the big difference was that the Superman books were all essentially one series with dif writers and artists assigned a book each week, but were to be read as a weekly comic and the mini series and one shots were also designed to fit in to them in that format where it was a weekly book telling one story. Batman however might have a throughline during crossovers but even during them was CONSTANTLY getting side books that were 'new reader friendly' and either set early in his career or ambiguous time frames so anyone would pick it up and know what was happening without any other context and I think this is solely built on the back of the movies and tv show being so mainstreamly popular. DC being the House that Batman built had been a thing for 20 years before TDK movie.
The DCAU felt like a good 50/50 split between Batman and Superman.
agreed
I never minded them. He did it because BTAS had struggles getting animated overseas, so he simplified the designs.
yeah I get why they did it, and it never bothered me I just don't think they're particularly attractive designs. they'd never be able to animate efficiently the DC animation I'd want which is like in that Superman anniversary short they did where they animated Dan Jurgens' Death of Superman art and it looks just like the comic that shit is insane I wish it was feasible to see some of those classic comic art styles animated but it would be too much work, time and money.
 
I will say that DCAU only really affected the perception of Batman honestly. Since that's the only thing people think about when it comes to the DCAU. The only thing that also affected the perception of Batman is the Nolan films which made people think Batman is this realistic superhero character, not that the Nolan films or DCAU are bad, but they held a lot of influence that almost hurts Batman.

In contrast, Superman really needed that DCAU influence since outside of Television, the 21st century didn't do Superman any favors from having dogshit movies that are bland or made by an edgelord who doesn't understand Superman's appeal to the Evil Superman trope almost becoming Superman's entire character. Then there's Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League who turned Superman into a complete retard who thinks the most obviously evil Brainiac means well.

It makes James Gunn's Superman honestly a landmine since it can either get interest back into Superman or continue the trend of Superman not getting anything good.
 
@Hembruh
Batwank was also likely due to success in general comics. The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns are two of some of the most well-known comics period. They also, arguably, caused massive amounts of long-term damage. The Dark Knight Returns was the big Batman can beat Superman story, that people like Synder try to ape off of. The Killing Joke brought in the overreliance on edgelord material, as it felt like N52 writers kept trying to top it and make the Joker more messed up.

I think a big reason why fans clamor for more DCAU is that the restrictions made it better than what DC fans were getting throughout N52 and the DCEU. DC just lacked a heart, and seemed to fall back on shock value. I remember listening to people talk about comics when I was younger and the stories just seemed off, like they would just have Bane kill a kid, because? I don't know how controversial this take is, but I have grown to hate stories like Flashpoint for how unnecessary so much of it was. They made Wonder Woman and Aquaman overly evil, and displayed too much shock content, even if Barry's story was good.

I honestly think DC would benefit from taking in their adaptations. Teen Titans would arguably have more to work with taking in the 03 show, rather than acting like that strong rogues gallery doesn't exist. Harley would objectively be better if they went back to BTAS and got rid of the Deadpool shtick. Bringing all the villains back down from psycho killers to the DCAU level would also be a positive, along with bringing back the more sympathetic personalities. I think there is a lot of room to grow from the DCAU, TT, YJ and other adaptations.
 
Last edited:
I actually agree with the general tone and content of most of both of your posts but I have to say about these two quotes below:

On the other hand, I disagree with the DCAU impacting DC on the overreliance off Batman and how they treat their wider universe poorly. I believe Batwank was more a product of the Dark Knight. The whole dark realism shtick of Batman started there and DC kept extending it into characters where it didn't belong such as Superman or Green Arrow. The Injustice video games also did far more damage than anything in the DCAU, with evil Superman and dark-edgy heroes that can go rogue being a staple now. Injustice was also the ultimate Batwank fantasy next to Tower of Babel/Justice League Doom.
I thought the Injustice comics were very good. Their biggest limiter was the mandated format that each episode was very short but I never saw why some people hated it. So far as I could tell it was just some reaction to the idea of an evil Superman being inherently some "edgy" try-hard thing when in the comic they actually did it exceedingly well. He doesn't go "Zap! I'm evil now!" and start wearing a goatee like people make it sound. He loses Lois and his child and he decides to go further in making the world safe. It starts small and it escalates bit by bit. Unless we're talking about the movie adaptation which was impossibly short and does feel like that. But the comic is excellent with many good scenes. I liked his playing chess with Flash whilst debating gun control. It's key that the first two games Superman wins (Flash has only just learned). But by the end of the conversation, Barry is wining each time.
1714414109529.png


It also has some great chemistry between Green Arrow and Harley Quinn who loves trolling Ollie. Frankly in this day and age any comic where Harley Quin is likeable should get points just for that.
1714414086795.png

where Green Arrow on CW was basically just a shitty Dark Knight trilogy Batman show down to it's first season doing the plot beats of TDKR and the later seasons being the Ra's Al Ghul thing
And this I disagree with as well. Shameless rip off of Batman? Oh, no doubt. I think they originally wanted to do Batman but couldn't get the rights at the time so swapped it to Green Arrow. Frankly, I think that was for the best because it let them take a slightly fresher approach and also the Arrow killed which brought a lot of interesting aspects to the story. Couldn't do that with Batman. Also, Stephen Amell was superb and the dude himself hugely likeable as a person. Great casting. The character led to some sparingly used but excellent humour.

Oliver: "The last person you asked me to train I shot in the leg with an arrow."
Felicity: "Right, poor Barry."
Oliver: "I meant Roy, but yes - also Barry."


It works because of the character and the actor. The show went a little wibbly in places and I didn't like their Deathstroke or Malcom Merlin, but overall it was a solid show. Willa Holland as Thea Queen was also good and it gave us Katie Lotz in Legends of Tomorrow which nobody can deny wasn't fun.

I will stand by Arrow.
 
But the comic is excellent with many good scenes.
I liked it a lot but I think the point @Basic Blond Boy was making was that the tone of it and the basic storyline of evil superman batman kicks his ass was detrimental. I think the comic is quite good for what it is, and wish instead of that garbage ass movie they would have just animated it as a series. it would have done huge numbers because despite the vitriol fans have for injustice and evil superman, normies FUCKING LOVE it, but have never read the comic. the Injustice 2 comic was hot garbage though.
Shameless rip off of Batman? Oh, no doubt. I think they originally wanted to do Batman but couldn't get the rights at the time so swapped it to Green Arrow.
it was always a green arrow show. it was supposed to be a Justin Hartley led spin off of Smallville (which coincidentally was a Batman show being developed but Aronofsky's Batman Year One movie was in development so WB vetoed any Batman origin stuff.) Smallville was on from when I was 6-16 so I was plugged in online to it because it was the one TV show I watched every week as a kid through the good and terrible. I followed Arrow's development for a long time up and to the release and essentially what happened was they wanted a Smallville sequel through Hartley's Arrow but everyone on that show had been doing it for years and would not agree to show up. like they wanted to do Green Arrow but use the DCU of Smallville and Welling/Rosenbalm and others were basically like fuck no we are not showing up for a few episodes of that so they went back to the drawing board and did a reboot, and basically used TDK trilogy as their blueprint. I remember reading all of this as it was happening, and people involved basically saying they were specifically doing TDK plot points and stuff because it resonated with people. and at the time this made sense, this is pre Netflix Daredevil and superhero tv had never even tried to be serious really so you might as well use what works. it's funny you mention Merlyn and Deathstroke because they're the only things I liked about that show at all (outside of Amell himself he was great casting the show is just written poorly especially after season 2. I personally like the first 2 a lot). all of my knowledge of this comes from a smallville based forum kryptonsite/k-siteTV which repurposed itself into an Arrow forum when it started and then I stopped going there basically halfway through Arrow's first season because I was 17 or something and was waiting for DvDs of shows and not watching them week to week anymore.
 
Last edited:
it was always a green arrow show. it was supposed to be a Justin Hartley led spin off of Smallville (which coincidentally was a Batman show being developed but Aronofsky's Batman Year One movie was in development so WB vetoed any Batman origin stuff. Smallville was on from when I was 6-16 so I was plugged in online to it because it was the one TV show I watched every week as a kid through the good and terrible. I followed Arrow's development for a long time up and to the release and essentially what happened was they wanted a Smallville sequel through Hartley's Arrow but everyone on that show had been doing it for years and would not agree to show up. like they wanted to do Green Arrow but use the DCU of Smallville and Welling/Rosenbalm and others were basically like fuck no we are not showing up for a few episodes of that so they went back to the drawing board and did a reboot,
Well thank Fuck they did. I'm very glad we got what we did rather than a Smallville spin-off. That would have been dire (no disrespect to Smallvill, it just would have been a bad idea).


it's funny you mention Merlyn and Deathstroke because they're the only things I liked about that show at all
*gasps in CW*

But for real? Of the cast I recall, they are both two that I most disliked. Deathstroke was some squat little aussie who never seemed remotely threatening to me. And I just out and out dislike the actor who played Merlyn. Though the character was written well. I dislike Moira his mum as well, mind. But her run was finite. I didn't like Kaitie Cassidy at first but grew to like her later on. Whilst Felicity had the opposite trajectory. The show did go downhill at a little in the middle seasons and that little Russian guy was wholly unconvincing as a Russian mobster. But the show picked up again and imo it ended on a high.

(outside of Amell himself he was great casting the show is just written poorly especially after season 2. I personally like the first 2 a lot). all of my knowledge of this comes from a smallville based forum kryptonsite/k-siteTV which repurposed itself into an Arrow forum when it started and then I stopped going there basically halfway through Arrow's first season because I was 17 or something and was waiting for DvDs of shows and not watching them week to week anymore.
 
I thought the Injustice comics were very good. Their biggest limiter was the mandated format that each episode was very short but I never saw why some people hated it. So far as I could tell it was just some reaction to the idea of an evil Superman being inherently some "edgy" try-hard thing when in the comic they actually did it exceedingly well. He doesn't go "Zap! I'm evil now!" and start wearing a goatee like people make it sound. He loses Lois and his child and he decides to go further in making the world safe. It starts small and it escalates bit by bit. Unless we're talking about the movie adaptation which was impossibly short and does feel like that. But the comic is excellent with many good scenes. I liked his playing chess with Flash whilst debating gun control. It's key that the first two games Superman wins (Flash has only just learned). But by the end of the conversation, Barry is wining each time.
I go back and forth on Injustice and I think my main takeaway is that it does minor characters really well, but the main ones have to act wildly out of character (even within the story) to make any of it make sense.

Batman was written poorly. He is super hostile for no reason towards Superman. Yes, Superman killed his gay lover, but seriously Bruce, the man let off a nuke, he deserved it. What makes it worse is that he accepted Harley, an accomplish to a nuked city, into his gang like she did nothing wrong.

Wonder Woman is just her usual Flashpoint, cunt self. I am honestly tired of her just being a warrior and not someone with compassion. Bitch didn't even fall to the dark side, she started there.

Hal and Barry were far too passive for characters that could have easily prevented everything.

Nightwing's death was super dumb. Victor then siding with the people who got his leader killed made no sense as he was all Teen Titans this, Teen Titans that... I will let him off the hook for not knowing that Clark sent all his friends to the Phantom Zone, but he should have known by game 2. As for Damian, what more can be said, his usual insufferable personality was upped x10.

People typically complain about Jokerwank as a Batman villain caused Superman's downfall rather than someone like Lex (likely because they stole the plot from the Justice Lords). Joker nuking a city being the catalyst does harm the plot though. Harley should be irredeemable by most standards and Superman was incredibly justified in killing him to the point where Batman looks like a tard arguing against it.

The entire plot is just a bad remake of the Justice Lords from JL. I think Lex becoming president and killing the Flash was a much more impactful start to the regime, while eliminating Flash plot armor. The Justice Lords were also just more interesting and horrifying given they don't kill, but "rehabilitate".
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom