DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Overly Serious]

with how long it takes DC to do fucking anything why couldn't Gunn just let Reeve do his thing and then introduce batman way later on. IIRC Batman was always a loner anyways, imagine him showing up to superman 5 like "i didn't want to make my presence known too early" and have it be done that way.

The JL trinity always had a slightly odd dynamic to me. If there's any of the big three that would clash I don't think it's Batman and Superman, it's Superman and Diana. She's a soldier, wields a sword, kills enemies in battle. He's the don't-hurt-people-boyscout civillian. It's not that Diana lacks compassion or Superman is naive, but they're the most likely to crash based on their origins imo. And when DC writes them as a natural fit or even ships them, based on some similarity of their powers, I find it absurd. In any case, Batman has a useful role as an intermediary. Without Batman you get the beyond Mary Sue of Martian Manhunter. A character who if acting intelligently is near unstoppable.

a grayson and todd movie sounds fucking awful btw. grayson and tim make way more fucking sense, but there's barely any reason for todd and grayson to associate.

Well that's where the tension comes from. Tim and Grayson is just two people who will naturally get along and be pretty similar in many ways (though they will probably still make Tim gay as they did in the Titans TV show). Todd and Grayson will clash which adds drama.

Not that I'm interested in a Robin movie either way, though. (Sorry, Robin of Teen Titans).

 

[el bandito loco]

doesn't Gunn want everything to be connected? So since they're skipping straight to Damien we're getting Grayson and Todd in a team up animated prequel? everything I hear about Gunn's DCU is so fucking weird.

it also leaked the other day they're making a Bane and Deathstroke movie. why? who the fuck are these projects for? have Bane and Deathstroke ever even met? although the way that was worded in the article I read was less that and more that they're making something that just has them both in it. it could be Brave and the Bold itself or even this weird robin cartoon for all we know. but people have been running with it as if its Bane/Slade team up or something.

I think you could make a Dick and Jason movie, but it would probably have to be a generational thing. where their lives as robins have parallels and differences and whatever bad guy it is they both dealt with as kids and then they team up to take him on in the third act as Nightwing and Red Hood as adults. that said I seriously doubt we're getting anything like that. we're probably just getting an annoying children's film.

but this slate is just weird as fuck. Creature Commandos, Peacemaker, Superman, Supergirl, The Authority, Lanterns, Waller, Booster Gold, Themyscara, Batman, Swamp Thing, Robins, Teen Titans, and Deathstroke/Bane. Other than Superman, Batman and maybe teen titans it seems like they're just making entirely random projects. also with 4 Batman or adjacent projects how much fuckin Batman do we need on top of Reeves universe? Jesus Christ.

 

[Overly Serious]

but this slate is just weird as fuck. Creature Commandos, Peacemaker, Superman, Supergirl, The Authority, Lanterns, Waller, Booster Gold, Themyscara, Batman, Swamp Thing, Robins, Teen Titans, and Deathstroke/Bane. Other than Superman, Batman and maybe teen titans it seems like they're just making entirely random projects. also with 4 Batman or adjacent projects how much fuckin Batman do we need on top of Reeves universe? Jesus Christ.

So are you saying the Reeves Batman is going to get connected to other projects? I mean outside of spin-offs like Penguin?

 

[el bandito loco]

So are you saying the Reeves Batman is going to get connected to other projects? I mean outside of spin-offs like Penguin?

no, I don't think that is happening at this point. I thought they might do that a couple of years ago but post this Robins movie announcement I think they're just going to do what they said and have their own Batman and let Reeves thing just continue for it's 2 sequels.

Originally Gunn had said when he took over that he wanted EVERYTHING connected, every movie, cartoon and video game and we weren't going to have more than one Batman in theaters. I think Zazlov probably told him they HAVE to continue with Reeves thing and so it's essentially the exception.

I thought it was pretty telling too that they've essentially ended the direct to video movies after almost 20 years and Superman and Lois despite people apparently liking it with this last season he's pretty serious about everything only in his world going forward. He also mentioned they would make some "elseworlds" things but they all seem to just be shit like Joker 2, Merry little Batman, the Harley and Kite Man cartoons, that were already done or super far along in development by the time he got the job.

I'm under the impression that other than The Batman franchise there will be basically nothing outside of his universe. but what I was also saying is that we're going to have an awful lot of Batman shit, from Reeves sequel to brave and The bold, Grayson/Todd, Bane/Deathstroke, and teen titans being presumably a robin led movie.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

The JL trinity always had a slightly odd dynamic to me. If there's any of the big three that would clash I don't think it's Batman and Superman, it's Superman and Diana. She's a soldier, wields a sword, kills enemies in battle. He's the don't-hurt-people-boyscout civillian. It's not that Diana lacks compassion or Superman is naive, but they're the most likely to crash based on their origins imo. And when DC writes them as a natural fit or even ships them, based on some similarity of their powers, I find it absurd. In any case, Batman has a useful role as an intermediary. Without Batman you get the beyond Mary Sue of Martian Manhunter. A character who if acting intelligently is near unstoppable.

I think this depends heavily on which WW you're talking about.

 

[Overly Serious]

I think this depends heavily on which WW you're talking about.

Well most of the recent ones have leaned more into the Amazon Warrior and princess elements, so a fair few of them. Though go back a bit further and you get ones that are less so, certainly. I like her as more of a warrior type personally but sure - I don't disagree there are versions this fits less.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

Apparently Batman Ninja is getting a sequel movie, Batman Ninja vs. Yakuza League.

Spoiler: Character Posters

The only reason I even found out about this are the new looks for Joker & Harley just got released.

After Shogun & Kunoichi, we're getting delinquent Joker & Harley.

 

[Michael Wade]

Wait I thought the big hype for batman 2 was Mr freeze being the villain. If it's more grounded is he not going to have a cold gun?

 

[el bandito loco]

Wait I thought the big hype for batman 2 was Mr freeze being the villain. If it's more grounded is he not going to have a cold gun?

It'll probably be some sort of freeze grenade or something that's not particularly realistic but not as goofy (or cool) as a cold gun. I mean the last movie had those weird video contacts and that's not particularly realistic but also not really out there.

I was basically just saying that them canning the Arkham show focused on super villains and renaming this franchise to the Batman Crime Saga Epic makes it sound like we're going to go to Nolan level places, maybe a bit further but nothing too crazy. I doubt we'll get a Man Bat/clayface or some characters more in that realm.

that being said dark knight rises is one of the most implausible movie I've ever seen so I wouldn't worry too much about it. people still call those movies "realistic Batman" but it isn't at all. the first one has that super weapon thing, the second one makes joker the most capable man of all time just getting insane amounts of shit done in like hours, and the third one has too much weird shit to even count.

 

[Product Placement]

Wait I thought the big hype for batman 2 was Mr freeze being the villain. If it's more grounded is he not going to have a cold gun?

I would guess not. My guess for a more grounded Mr Freeze would be someone who kidnaps people by putting them on ice to harvest their organs later and preforms black market transplants.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

WB stock value is down 5% over the Joker 2 being so hated. They intentionally raped the joker just to own the Chuds and mainstream audiences fans who liked the first movie. How low will WB stock fall after James Gunn Superman reboot flops? Mainstream audiences are already making fun of the Superman reboot for looking cheap. The odds of the DC reboot flopping are good.

 

[Humble Architect]

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WB stock value is down 5% over the Joker 2 being so hated. They intentionally raped the joker just to own the Chuds and mainstream audiences fans who liked the first movie. How low will WB stock fall after James Gunn Superman reboot flops? Mainstream audiences are already making fun of the Superman reboot for looking cheap. The odds of the DC reboot flopping are good.

The only boundary pushed was Arthur’s colon

The shitposting is fun though.

 

[Trollblade69]

Thought these were some pretty damning statements of modern cartoons. Posted here specifically because of the MAWS comment:

 

[Mystery Spy]

I will adress the elephant in the room with Wonder Woman. She is not as important or as beloved as most people, specially comic fans, assume she is. Don't get me wrong, she is iconic and extremely popular. And yes, she is an A-lister. Obviously. I am not claiming she isn't famous. Far from it.

But when it comes to biggest selling franchises? She isn't even listed. But, non surprisingly, Batman, Superman, and Spider-man are in a league of their own. Even Iron man, Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy are, on their own merits, in the billion dollar tier. And they only got there very recently due to the MCU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

Most sold comics? Batman, and Superman are listed obviously. WW isn't. Even Captain America and Spawn have sold more issues than her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_comic_series

Unless you are a comic book enjoyer, not counting you, can you name even a single iconic story about her that's on the same level as The killing joke, or Spider-verse? I am sure she has a lot of quality stories in comics . But they are just not well known. When it comes to the general public people will just draw blanks about her beyond the basics.

I am not hating on Wonder Woman, I am just saying that outside of comics she has had very few wins . Her biggest, solo,W as late was that 2017 Wonder Woman movie. DC relies way too much on her popularity, and her being a feminist icon. I will even concede she is THE female superhero. Just like Superman is the most iconic superhero. But that doesn't change the fact DC hasn't done too much quality content with her in literal decades.

TL;DR: I think people like more the idea of Wonder Woman than Diana herself. People Asssume Wonder Woman is a top 5 most beloved and profitable fictional characters. In reality She is likely, at best, a Top 20. And even that might be too generous.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I will adress the elephant in the room with Wonder Woman. She is not as important or as beloved as most people, specially comic fans, assume she is. Don't get me wrong, she is iconic and extremely popular. And yes, she is an A-lister. Obviously. I am not claiming she isn't famous. Far from it.

Quoting someone on 4chan here, but they were completely correct in their assertion that DC's big three are not Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but rather Superman, Batman and Robin.

Dick Grayson, even when separated from Batman, has way more good material and a much larger fanbase than WW. It is both sad and hilarious that the feminist icon WW gets mogged by some zesty gayboi doing back flips in alley ways when it comes to wider appeal, including and especially, with women.

However, if we were to disqualify Dick on the account of being a Batman character, it is pretty obvious the Flash is the 3rd biggest and a better contender for the trinity. Also, again, thanks to the CW, happens to be more popular with the supposed audience for WW.

TL;DR: I think people like more the idea of Wonder Woman than Diana herself. People Asssume Wonder Woman is a top 5 most beloved and profitable fictional characters. In reality She is likely, at best, a Top 20. And even that might be too generous.

WW's biggest issue is that no one knows what to do, nor wants to do anything with her. We spoke about it earlier in the thread, but her entire IP has been mismanaged to hell since the original creator's death. A good chunk of that is definitely the rights issues surrounding her, but even without it, none of the comic writers wanted to work with her.

Nowadays, there really is no clear vision for what her IP even is. They tried to push her into this weird Greek Gods direction, but that doesn't really work for a good chunk of her rogues gallery.
Her personality has also never been defined as she consistently falls on both extremes of the spectrum either being a mega bitch, or a more fun and adventurous character. Sometimes she kills people, sometimes she doesn't. They really just need to lock down something with her.

Finally, writers are way too scared of feminist backlash to the point where they avoid many of the strong aspects other DC characters have, romance and family, that would have given her more fans. Say what you will about those aspects, the amount of comic outsiders that the BatFamily drags in, or Superman x Lois, hell even the Flash family, is significant. WW's movie represents this too as a good chunk of the appeal was Steve.

 

[Humble Architect]

Robin (Dick) is the third of the Trinity (also Spider-Man) because he was there early on and he was the audience avatar, that kid being given guidance by his heroes, ultimately embodying the best of Superman and Batman. It’s why he got his own team, by extension, a “world” like Batman and Superman have in their separate books.

Outside of continuity, Spider-Man is the third, the successor, rounding out the origins and loose theme.

The child from the stars, the tragic murder and the accident, you think superheroes, those are the origins you think of.

I prefer Wondy as Bruce and Clark’s “wrangler” or intermediary, some worldly compassion to round out idealistic hope and ruthless justice. The sword needs to go though, heroes need to act like heroes. Arthur can have his trident because it’s a badge of office and that fills out his Zeus, Hades and Poseidon dynamic with Superman and Batman. There’s nothing compassionate about a sword (as KC showed), the lasso is the badge.

 

[Overly Serious]

WW might be the in-universe and historical lead female superhero but it wouldn't surprise me if in terms of audience numbers and mindshare, Supergirl takes the lead. Has had key roles in much of the animated movies, a popular (if increasingly propagandistic) TV show, leading storylines in the animated series. Don't know sales numbers of her comics line vs. WW but SG is in many ways more relatable and more closely integrated with other DC characters.

I don't know that she's more popular but I could well believe it.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

WW might be the in-universe and historical lead female superhero but it wouldn't surprise me if in terms of audience numbers and mindshare, Supergirl takes the lead. Has had key roles in much of the animated movies, a popular (if increasingly propagandistic) TV show, leading storylines in the animated series. Don't know sales numbers of her comics line vs. WW but SG is in many ways more relatable and more closely integrated with other DC characters.

I don't know that she's more popular but I could well believe it.

If we are being honest, Raven and/or Starfire are probably DC's biggest female leads.

These two are the characters that have actually accomplished what DC wants WW to be, a female icon that girls attach themselves to. The only bad part about them is that their popularity is primarily relegated to out-of-comic materials such as 03, GO, and those DCAMU films. The comics seems to have a rough time translating the animations and why they got popular.

Also, I say this as personal anecdote, whenever I go to the local nerd convention in Chicago, it is filled with Ravens. Halloween, I see Batman, Superman and Raven while I work at the library. Even a week ago, I think I saw a Raven while getting food as some girl had purple hair and the red gem on her head.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

The REAL big 3 of DC are Power Girl and her titties. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

 

[Overly Serious]

If we are being honest, Raven and/or Starfire are probably DC's biggest female leads.

These two are the characters that have actually accomplished what DC wants WW to be, a female icon that girls attach themselves to. The only bad part about them is that their popularity is primarily relegated to out-of-comic materials such as 03, GO, and those DCAMU films. The comics seems to have a rough time translating the animations and why they got popular.

Also, I say this as personal anecdote, whenever I go to the local nerd convention in Chicago, it is filled with Ravens. Halloween, I see Batman, Superman and Raven while I work at the library. Even a week ago, I think I saw a Raven while getting food as some girl had purple hair and the red gem on her head.

Don't know why I didn't think of those two - yes, they probably are. And given that she has drifted so far into being a "hero", Harley Quinn probably outpaces all the other heroines on the roster. (You may now weep).