Genuinely shocked they're not pulling the episode of peacemaker. say what you will about the 2010s, with all its notorious shootings, but everyone pulled fucking everything every time one happened.
I'm kind of willing to see them crash this into the wall by not trying to course correct. They're screwed either way but I thoroughly disliked this show when I tried it so as far as I'm concerned, burn, baby, burn.
the problem with that meme is that general audiences can't comprehend actual smartly written characters, which is why only you picked up on all the wordplay that makes him seem like he's the puppet master, audiences aren't smart enough which is why they have to dumb down their characters, especially for blockbusters. if this was some niche series people might get it but its a blockbuster film, you have to make it so even translators can get the point across.
This is definitely a major problem. Gunn movie and much of the MCU you have to keep explaining what is going on or you lose that middle of the bell curve that studios love so much. Or if you want absolutely the worst-handled exposition I've seen in years, watch Alien: Earth (or don't, depends how much self-hatred you have). They simply cannot rely on people being smart enough to work it out because as you point out, some people wouldn't. And then they'd be upset with the product. But that leaves the rest of us enduring endless unwanted hand-holding. It's why I tend to watch older movies and read older literature - they didn't dumb it down as much back then. I don't know that people were smarter but you were allowed to write for smart people, without the big company paying your salary insisting that you target the lowest possible denominator you could get away with on the expectation that smarter people would just put up with it.
Some of the stuff I didn't even pick up on myself like the Zeus comment. Once you know that Lex knows who Clark, Bruce and Diana really are, a lot of earlier scenes take on an extra layer of meaning. I said it previously here but I also like how Eisenberg sometimes struggles to speak / finish a sentence because he's one of those people who is thinking multiple things he wants to say at once. It's a thing I do myself and have to focus to not do if I'm trying to speak publicly rather than chill with friends. Again, I don't think he's a good Lex, exactly. Lex is an iconic character. But I do think he's a good villain and did not deserve the hate he got.
I still think that "martha" bullshit was so retarded it destroyed the film, if they changed it to "mother" or "my mother" it wouldn't have been easily mocked but it still is retarded for the other reason of like why can't they just talk it out, or Superman just say "he has my mother" save the martha stuff for when Bruce saves her, have him ask for her name, "Martha, i finally got to save you"
It's an implementation problem, really. The idea is solid - this moment that suddenly humanises Superman in Bruce's eyes. And Bruce's dehumanized viewpoint before then is built up believably. The first time Bruce sees Superman he's this distant figure battling in the sky who brings down part of Wayne tower killing people Bruce knows. Opening the movie with a from-the-ground view of the destruction is a really solid decision. It's not only reasonable that Bruce views him as some alien who brought his war to Earth, it's more or less true. And Lex is poking that bear constantly to drive it further. And the more the world accepts Superman and adores him, the angrier Bruce is becoming. Same way many of us might feel about something we know is dangerous but the whole world online seems to be cheering along naively. Also, most of the world probably doesn't think Superman
has a secret identity. Why would he? He has godlike power and they think he's sitting next to them on the Tube?
I don't know exactly how I would fix it. As I said, Snyder didn't decide that their mothers have the same name - that was done long ago. And despite dumb How It Should Have Ended YouTube videos, the dialogue doesn't have Batman going "woah - that's my mum's name too, lets hug." It's just blank confusion on Bruce's face. I probably would have ditched the "Why did you say that name?" in favour of something a little less laden. Maybe a simpler? "Who is Martha?" It's less memeable. And you still have Lois running in to explain "it's his mother. Martha is his mother." Batman is a person driven his whole life by the trauma of seeing his parents die as a child. It really is the perfect way to break the false image he has of Superman to realise that this "monster" in front of him is trying to save his mother. It's over-egging the pudding to give them the same name but... that's not on Zack Snyder. I'd maybe just tone down the dialogue a little bit and linger a bit more on Bruce's confusion to show the image he has of Superman falling apart. I might also include a moment or two earlier to show Bruce angry at "naive" people worshipping / adoring Superman. Nothing drives someone beserk like being the only one to understand someone is bad when everyone around you is welcoming them in. It just makes you desperate to expose them and bring them down. Honestly, I like Batman's confused shouting of "what does that mean?" as Superman's begging doesn't match up with what he expects.
I like your notion of "I finally got to save you" for Batman at the end. But I also chuckled at Martha's actual line in the movie when the man dressed as a Bat says "your son sent me" and replies "I figured." A rare Snyder indulgence in a funny line.
honestly i don't know how the plan works either way, whats stopping a guy fast enough to keep up with the flash from just speed running over to martha, if communication is slow enough that Bruce can get over and save her, why not Superman.
Well he's not as fast as the Flash in this, though he's fast enough to follow Flash's motions and semi-interact with them. He lands a couple of punches but it's mainly because Flash isn't expecting them at all and one he just runs straight into. Even on a backfoot, Flash dodges most of them. Superman isn't shown being able to do things like search an entire city in an hour. He also doesn't know for certain even if she's still in the city or which city. When Lex reveals he's got her he remarks "I don't know where she is - I wouldn't let them tell me". And in fact, it's Batman's investigation into Lex's smuggling operation that actually unveils where she's being kept. Batman does the detective work and Superman flies off to deal with whatever comes out of the Kryptonian ship - which is a sensible and intelligent division of responsibilities by them.
Slight correction to myself from earlier, also. Doomsday isn't just Lex's backup plan for if Batman doesn't kill Superman. He actually uses the battle as a distraction for Superman so that he can do reckless and irresponsible things in the ship without Superman showing up. Again, multiple layers. I like that.
I'm not all in on defending every aspect of the Snyderverse. But I'm willing to take on some of the worse criticisms of it. Like if I were comparing it to the old Christopher Reeves movies that would be a very different conversation. Hell I even liked Brandon Routh as Superman despite thinking the movie he was in was one of the worst Superman movies ever. But comparing the Snyder movies to the Gunn ones? I absolutely think the Snyder ones will be looked back on with more respect than the Gunn abomination. Which will survive mainly as something to stick your kids in front of for a couple of hours. (Assuming you don't have smart kids.)
I have enough self-awareness to realise I'm sperging, but I really do despise Gunn's DC products.
