DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[God of Nothing]

Action Comics #761. My mind immediately went there when the "Lois hates Wonder Woman" talk started for this series of panels that’s somehow burned into my brain forever:

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looooooool
lmaoooooo

I will say this way more bluntly:

Nobody gives a fuck about Wonder Woman.
They keep bringing her back because way back in ancient 1970's land, she had one of the very few successful capeshit TV shows and that's what the old people who run Hollywood remember.
If another character had that show, that would be the one they kept bringing back.

As a character, she's dull.
She's Superman without the relatability of being raised as a human.
She's Thor without the charm and humor.
She has absolutely zero flaws which is the base for character development and having a personality in general.

She doesn't even have a weakness, she's indestructible until the writer decides to hurt her, that's how we get her bleeding from a bullet in the 2017 movie in act 1, then in act 3 she gets hit with 58 grenades to the face and it does zero damage.

Also, she doesn't appeal to women.
A perfect morally consistent woman who always takes accountability for her actions.... yeah, that's not for girls.

pretty much
even during azzarello's run, which is one of the comic runs i actually like, wondy has a very non-descript personality
sure she helps people but it's almost entirely because that's what she's supposed to do on a meta level
it's not because of injustice, loving people, or an overwhelming devotion to making things right even if it might suck or you don't care about the people you save

the ditzy slut who just wants to have fun she originally was had the only real personality
and i guess that one cartoon where they're teenagers and she's actually a fun genki type girl
or was that just the one episode?

 

[strumpets exeunt]

I dont know if ive ever mentioned this to you guys, but its a running thing that ive been telling people my whole life that out of all of the JLA, there is no way Superman likes Green Arrow. He's superman so hed never say it, but I guarantee if they existed Batman would have been told in confidence by Clark that he thinks Ollie is the biggest faggot on Earth.

Nah, Clark loves everybody. The only people he hates are those who squander their gifts on evil. Ollie is many things, but what he is most is a man trying to be better - failing, mind you - but still trying.

Which I imagine most normal women would probably be like. It's kind of humorous the idea Diana really likes Lois and is friendly and wants to be her friend but Lois doesnt even want her around lol

Giffen and DeMatteis said it best:

 

[Humble Architect]

I'll admit I'm no Superman-ologist, but I got the impression that the idea is that Clark doesn't really _like_ other metahumans. He's got the fortress of solitude, not the assembly hall, he hangs out with the human who maxed out his stats as his main rival/pal, his Metropolis friends are mostly humans
he doesn't necessarily hate the other capes but he wants to be a human with human friends, so he wasn't really clocking WW as a romantic interest

Clark is a lone wolf at heart when it comes to being a superhero, it’s one of the funny things with him and Batman, where the blue “boy scout” doesn’t have time for the sidekick thing. The best way to determine if someone is a co-worker or a true friend is which name they call him.

Diana, in a rare bit of consistency in comics, always calls him Kal-El and it’s weird.

Batman always calls him Clark.

If they’re calling him Kal, chances are they don’t know his real name and they’re “just work friends.”

He likes Martian Manhunter as they have an alien kinship, but yes, he mainly sticks to humans. Even then, I would say only a small circle as someone like Green Arrow annoys the hell out of him. It is mainly the Metropolis circle and Batfamily he is strongly connected with.

Based Clark would hatethe libshit. It’s especially funny, given how those two first met.

Action Comics #761. My mind immediately went there when the "Lois hates Wonder Woman" talk started for this series of panels that’s somehow burned into my brain forever:

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Lois is best when she’s like this, normal in an insane world and prepared accordingly. I remember a friend saying, “Bro, Lois is the type of chick to shoot a mugger.”

She doesn’t like Batman either but that’s pretty understandable as whenever Batman and Superman hang out together, things get silly and insane real quick and Clark usually shows up with weird kids.

“Lois! Me and Batman overthrew the president and look what crashed in the Gotham Bay! This is my cousin.”

 

[Overly Serious]

@strumpets exeunt has examples that it is so. But @el bandito loco is right that it should not be so.

Some writers don't get their characters as well as they should. I can totally see 'traditional Socialist billionaire champion of the people' Ollie rubbing 'grew up on a farm' Clarke the wrong way. Not that Clarke would probably get into it without some significant provocation. He's head of the Justice League and would put team harmony above most things, especially personal and private opinions. But still... if it's traditional and classic Ollie, I can see him rubbing up many of the heroes the wrong way.

Admittedly there's going to be a small amount of projection on the parts of some of us in this thread.

 

[Newcomer 42]

is outcome was even more disappointing than I had anticipated. The DC knockout appearance was unremarkable from the outset. Overall, the DC knockout segment failed to meet expectations. Additionally, the omission of complete fight sequences was notable. The confrontation between Joker and Annabelle was particularly disappointing, while the highlight of the event was the match between Lex Luthor and Samantha Strong.

Then DC asks why people don't buy their comics anymore, kek. That crossover with third parties from another editorial looks as dumb as I expected. Lex should have smacked that killer bitch away with his power-armored enhanced strength. Or flying. Or laser beams.

 

[Humble Architect]

@strumpets exeunt has examples that it is so. But @el bandito loco is right that it should not be so.

Some writers don't get their characters as well as they should. I can totally see 'traditional Socialist billionaire champion of the people' Ollie rubbing 'grew up on a farm' Clarke the wrong way. Not that Clarke would probably get into it without some significant provocation. He's head of the Justice League and would put team harmony above most things, especially personal and private opinions. But still... if it's traditional and classic Ollie, I can see him rubbing up many of the heroes the wrong way.

Admittedly there's going to be a small amount of projection on the parts of some of us in this thread.

But you see, it’s funny. Clark just hanging with Bruce and going, “I don’t like Oliver.”

Because in no world does the blue-collar Kansas farm boy, who hears everyone’s bullshit daily and is bearing the weight of the world with a smile and a wink, tolerate a yuppie, opinionated douche whose halfwit “green” policies hurt people with increased taxes and all the bullshit that comes from the real Olivers of the world.

It is projection but “Truth, Justice and the American Way” has never been more opposed to types like Oliver Queen IRL.

And it can be reciprocated, in the hands of a good writer, both men despising each other could be hilarious.

 

[Overly Serious]

Then DC asks why people don't buy their comics anymore, kek. That crossover with third parties from another editorial looks as dumb as I expected. Lex should have smacked that killer bitch away with his power-armored enhanced strength. Or flying. Or laser beams.

I don't know the character but looks like one of those characters like the Joker whose effectiveness comes about in large part by writer fiat rather than in-universe ability. Which makes for a silly match-up as you have someone who is very smart with real abilities vs. a plot-enabled character. Which kind of lampshades the nature of the latter which is rarely a good thing for reader engagement.

I could be off-base but just from what I can glean from the panels and some extrapolation.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

That crossover with third parties from another editorial looks as dumb as I expected. Lex should have smacked that killer bitch away with his power-armored enhanced strength. Or flying. Or laser beams.

DC Comics is not providing fans with the third-party character battles they have requested. At most, we are witnessing scenarios such as Homelander versus Superman. For some reason they are teasing that Samatha Strong might be a rapist and accidentally made the joker look like a pedophile.

 

[Newcomer 42]

I don't know the character but looks like one of those characters like the Joker whose effectiveness comes about in large part by writer fiat rather than in-universe ability. Which makes for a silly match-up as you have someone who is very smart with real abilities vs. a plot-enabled character. Which kind of lampshades the nature of the latter which is rarely a good thing for reader engagement.

I read her comics and the sequel, which is getting close to the finale. She's a killer who targets random people in not-New York, lures them to her car, drugs them, drives them to the nearby forest, cuts them to pieces and buries the pieces separately, because she has an urge to do that since she was a teenager because she's a psycho (she also murdered her parents when they accidentally tried to sabotage her plans). In the latest issue the sister of one of her victims finally catches her up and she's been forced to run away from the cops, taking the sister hostage after setting her shop on fire by a hidden trap. Not sure how it will end, though, as she's the villain protagonist.

DC Comics is not providing fans with the third-party character battles they have requested. At most, we are witnessing scenarios such as Homelander versus Superman. For some reason they are teasing that Samatha Strong might be a rapist and accidentally made the joker look like a pedophile.

Sammy vs Joker would be a bit less ridiculous than Lex Luthor. Both would see through her bullshit immediately, especially the Joker.

 

[OutInTheRain]

Nah, Clark loves everybody. The only people he hates are those who squander their gifts on evil. Ollie is many things, but what he is most is a man trying to be better - failing, mind you - but still trying.

You can still like someone you think is a faggot. You also can be relieved that said faggot seemed to return from what was presumed to be their death, or happy to see said faggot after years of not seeing them. However, probably after a week or two you have the realization of "Oh that's why I can't stand that faggot."

I assume that is how most of DC feels about Green Arrow. I imagine that most of the side conversations in JLA go something like. "Ollie's here and he's been doomscrolling Twitter all day...just avoid him." Or "Ollie's ranting about something he saw on the news again, just don't go in there..." With a response that usually goes something like "Yeah this is why Speedy did drugs."

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

I remember reading this in grade school and thinking even as a kid how the only reason this is happening is for the writer to show Superman loves his wife and it was some filler bullshit. This isnt a unique phenomena either there are multiple stories where something along these lines is the plot over the history of the characters. If you wanted to make the point Superman and WW shouldn't be together, wouldn't it make more sense to do a story where this same plot happens but they have like 0 sexual tension or thoughts and just act like siblings or something spending all that time together? Not sitting around both with thought bubbles going "damn i wish we were fucking"

I like to think that's just how Lois imagines it happening. "I bet that hussy is just chomping at the bit to catch him with the BDSM lasso she carries everywhere in public. Smallville's too pure to be tempted, I know, but that doesn't mean she get a pass on eye-humping him!" Then just cut to Diana having an internal monologue about small things about Supes that she can't imagine any woman finding attractive.

 

[Incecticyder]

Here is the main issue with WW as far as personality goes: She is a feminist. That might not sound as a bad thing (I almost wrote that with a straight face), but there is a huge difference between being a feminist THEN and NOW! Back when WW was made, there was room for progress. Women truly had no rights and there was a lot to be done. Now, things are different. Women got a lot of rights in the modern world. In some cases, more rights than the men. Which means that, unless she moves to the 3rd world, that job was done. We have seen women in leadership positions and they sucked about as much as men do. Hard to argue about giving women power when the reader's girlboss is draining him of his will to live. Everything WW argues about has lost its magic. We saw women with rights and power and the world got a bit better but it is not the paradise we were promised and giving women more of either will just create more sexism and it does not help.

Then, there is Themiscyra. A paradise island nation if you ignore 4 flaws that made it awful:

-They were progressive by the standards of 1000 B.C.E. Thing is, it has not been that for a while. At these point, unless it is a bunch of "diverse" countries, chances are that gender equality is better outside this small nation. And that is ignoring the other things such as the Amazons' willingness to rape and murder. They are the ones to teach us to be better? How? By showing us who to not become?

-The so-called paradise is only such because the gods want it to be that way. In our world, food shortages, plagues, disasters, all occur and that causes conflict. Themiscyra has no such issues. It is far easier to be peaceful when there is nothing to worry about. Not to mention, the gods are only nice because they do not want to lose the last bastion of their faith. When they were worshipped, they were not as nice as they are to the Amazons. Losing their followers caused them to turtle up.

-Lest we forget that this nation does not allow men. In other words, this system, even if you believe it works, is not going to apply. Pretty good at keeping outsiders out but that does not fit "THE MESSAGE". Not very open borders.

-Finally, feminism nowadays is misandry and entitlement. Good luck trying to show feminism in a positive light when doing so might make the left hate it. True feminism has been right wing for about a decade because the left keeps going even further left. Now, all that remains is conflict.

WW is there to prove how good the Amazon way is but we know better and that makes her a hard pill to swallow. A good girl but the feminism aspect needed an update since the 80's. Now might be too late. She is the easiest character to deconstruct amongst the Big 3. Just have her find out that her paradise is built on the back of raped and murdered men, which will then break her.

Her lore leaves her very fragile to reality.

 

[Humble Architect]

I like to think that's just how Lois imagines it happening. "I bet that hussy is just chomping at the bit to catch him with the BDSM lasso she carries everywhere in public. Smallville's too pure to be tempted, I know, but that doesn't mean she get a pass on eye-humping him!" Then just cut to Diana having an internal monologue about small things about Supes that she can't imagine any woman finding attractive.

Internal monologues for the Trinity would be great, they were in Superman/Batman and mainly goes to show they usually had different thoughts, but almost always landed on the same idea. Except for that one where Superman intensely and rather interestingly did not like Starfire and called into question Conner’s judgement. It happened during Public Enemies and he just zeroed in on her.

Wonder Woman having one would honestly help in getting her character…… in-place and not just whatever her current writer is.

“Is he picking his teeth? The might of a god and he still cares about this foot-ball game? Why does he make references to a ‘wing night’ and not give out invitations to us, his companions? By Hera, Lois Lane must have the patience of a saint.”

Then jump to Clark’s

“Still got some chicken in my teeth, damn. Remember to invite Bruce to game night, think of a cover identity if he is coming, probably not but it’s good to extend an offer. Diana’s looking at me weirdly, she looks at everyone weirdly. Oh, someone just tripled on some exposed pipe in the recreational deck, it sounds like Oliver, that’s very unfortunate.”

You can still like someone you think is a faggot. You also can be relieved that said faggot seemed to return from what was presumed to be their death, or happy to see said faggot after years of not seeing them. However, probably after a week or two you have the realization of "Oh that's why I can't stand that faggot."

I assume that is how most of DC feels about Green Arrow. I imagine that most of the side conversations in JLA go something like. "Ollie's here and he's been doomscrolling Twitter all day...just avoid him." Or "Ollie's ranting about something he saw on the news again, just don't go in there..." With a response that usually goes something like "Yeah this is why Speedy did drugs."

He’s that family member who juices up on Internet disease before Thanksgiving. Plus he fits the bill of “people Superman dislikes but it isn’t hate, not yet.”

Smartass? Check
Cocky? Check
Entitled? Check
Opinionated? Check
Believe he knows best? Check

Plus Clark can hear everyone who has gotten freaky in the Watchtower and that probably didn’t help things much. Motherfucker probably leaves notes on the communal post-it board. “Please stop having sexual relations on the Watchtower, some are heightened senses that reduce the privacy you think you have.”

 

[el bandito loco]

Nah, Clark loves everybody. The only people he hates are those who squander their gifts on evil. Ollie is many things, but what he is most is a man trying to be better - failing, mind you - but still trying.

Because in no world does the blue-collar Kansas farm boy, who hears everyone’s bullshit daily and is bearing the weight of the world with a smile and a wink, tolerate a yuppie, opinionated douche whose halfwit “green” policies hurt people with increased taxes and all the bullshit that comes from the real Olivers of the world.

You can still like someone you think is a faggot. You also can be relieved that said faggot seemed to return from what was presumed to be their death, or happy to see said faggot after years of not seeing them. However, probably after a week or two you have the realization of "Oh that's why I can't stand that faggot."

I assume that is how most of DC feels about Green Arrow. I imagine that most of the side conversations in JLA go something like. "Ollie's here and he's been doomscrolling Twitter all day...just avoid him." Or "Ollie's ranting about something he saw on the news again, just don't go in there..." With a response that usually goes something like "Yeah this is why Speedy did drugs."

Yeah this is what it is. I dont think hed really hate anyone barring like pure evil like Darkseid or something, and as a peer and teammate of course Clark would care about and value Ollie, but i think out of all the jla mainstays hed be the one who would irritate and rub Clark the wrong way more often than anyone else.

I dont think hed be sitting around thinking "damn i wish count vertigo would kill that fucker" but I do think he's the guy who when having a beer on the watchtower with Hal and the guys, hed be thinking to himself Jesus i hope Oliver goes home soon or shuts the fuck up. Oliver is the type to constantly be up his ass asking Clark to do things and thinking the world is entitled to Superman doing thats outside the scope of what he's comfortable with, but would have 0 self reflection on why its inappropriate to basically just tell Superman to do them or that he's overstepping boundaries or even inconveniencing the guy. I like Ollie too, I think his absurd politics make for a fascinating character, but I really just think hed be the guy superman is like oh great not him at his birthday party.

I really like the idea of Clark writing a scathing editorial about performative rich socialists and thats a thin dig at Ollie and somewhere in there praising Bruce. thats such a funny idea to me. The idea of Lois reading that and fucking with Clark about it is hilarious.

I like to think that's just how Lois imagines it happening. "I bet that hussy is just chomping at the bit to catch him with the BDSM lasso she carries everywhere in public. Smallville's too pure to be tempted, I know, but that doesn't mean she get a pass on eye-humping him!" Then just cut to Diana having an internal monologue about small things about Supes that she can't imagine any woman finding attractive.

This would be exactly how to do it 100x better than the original story.

 

[Humble Architect]

Talking about the other mal-adjusted green man. I’ll always remember Superman telling Hal Jordan to get his life together, “you don’t even have a house,” and just laying into Hal the way he had never been since before Jordan Sr blew up.

It’s so accurate to anytime you have to sit a friend down and be dad for five minutes cause clearly their father didn’t bother.

It really does wonders for our, “Does Clark even like these people?” idea. Honestly a “Life in the Watchtower” one-page short would be a good addition to JL comics.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

Wonder Woman having one would honestly help in getting her character…… in-place and not just whatever her current writer is.

“Is he picking his teeth? The might of a god and he still cares about this foot-ball game? Why does he make references to a ‘wing night’ and not give out invitations to us, his companions? By Hera, Lois Lane must have the patience of a saint.”

Then jump to Clark’s

“Still got some chicken in my teeth, damn. Remember to invite Bruce to game night, think of a cover identity if he is coming, probably not but it’s good to extend an offer. Diana’s looking at me weirdly, she looks at everyone weirdly. Oh, someone just tripled on some exposed pipe in the recreational deck, it sounds like Oliver, that’s very unfortunate.”

Bruce's
"Damn it, Ollie, that was supposed to be Hal. Why hasn't Clark invited me to game night yet, it's almost the weekend. Is he still mad about me calling him out for cheating at cards? I mean, I have other things to do, but it's common courtesy. Oh god, I hope he doesn't invite Diana, she gets real passive aggressive when she loses. Alfred, stop texting me about dinner. I only skipped one meal, God."

 

[Humble Architect]

Bruce's
"Damn it, Ollie, that was supposed to be Hal. Why hasn't Clark invited me to game night yet, it's almost the weekend. Is he still mad about me calling him out for cheating at cards? I mean, I have other things to do, but it's common courtesy. Oh god, I hope he doesn't invite Diana, she gets real passive aggressive when she loses. Alfred, stop texting me about dinner. I only skipped one meal, God."

That nigga probably hears the Grey Ghost narrating his entire life like he’s Max Payne.

“Clark’s new cologne is a glaring omission in his secret identity, if both Clark Kent and Superman smell like Italian Breeze then an enterprising mind could begin to make the connections between Clark Kent and Superman, very sloppy work. Diana’s sports betting hobby is getting worse. For one so critical of man’s world, she’s spending a lot on it. I wonder if she did in-fact buy another cat, this could prove to be a weakness for team composure……… Oh my god, shut up about belugas Arthur.”

 

[strumpets exeunt]

It really does wonders for our, “Does Clark even like these people?” idea. Honestly a “Life in the Watchtower” one-page short would be a good addition to JL comics.

Well, there was this. Just... don't ask who wrote it.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/JLA:_Welcome_to_the_Working_Week

 

[The Nothingness]

WW is there to prove how good the Amazon way is but we know better and that makes her a hard pill to swallow. A good girl but the feminism aspect needed an update since the 80's. Now might be too late. She is the easiest character to deconstruct amongst the Big 3. Just have her find out that her paradise is built on the back of raped and murdered men, which will then break her.

Her lore leaves her very fragile to reality.

I think the closest Diana's lore came to deconstruction was the JL two-part episode, "Fury," where a human girl ended up on Themyscira after fleeing from her war-torn country and, having been raised by the Amazons, plots to wipe out the male half of the world's population. There was even a scene where Hawkgirl points out to WW that her belief system is nothing more than misandry.

 

[Incecticyder]

I think the closest Diana's lore came to deconstruction was the JL two-part episode, "Fury," where a human girl ended up on Themyscira after fleeing from her war-torn country and, having been raised by the Amazons, plots to wipe out the male half of the world's population. There was even a scene where Hawkgirl points out to WW that her belief system is nothing more than misandry.

Love that episode. One of the first I managed to see. Honestly, her storylines could be that alone. Her lore is incompatible with modern society. She was the representative of a tribe of hurt women. Now, those women are backwards. Amazons Attack was another great representation of that. Sucky story but it really brings home that the Amazons are not kind. There was the tradition of raping sailors and killing them (in some continuities), exiling and/or killing their sons/brothers (in some continuities) and, of course, Historia which is canon in AWW and reads like radfem revisionist propaganda. In general, Amazons succeed not because of their virtuous morals but because the gods and JL keep them safe. Their society would have crumbled otherwise. It is like a rich kid asking the bullied kids why they do not bring bodyguards with them.