DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Incecticyder]

Can Superman throw an object so hard he himself can't catch it?

Yes. Assuming that the object's speed is the same as his top speed and the object goes into space, he won't catch it. They will have the same speed but the object will have a head start. If the object remains in the atmosphere, it will eventually slow down while Superman won't.

First I want to thank @Basic Blond Boy for explaining better than I could've. Yes that's exactly what I meant.

I am not saying they should copy Invicible's writing style. Far from it.

However, I do think Invincible does prove all the "superman is Op" complaints are nonsensical. Nobody is complaining the temu Kryptonians, the Viltrumites, are OP and in fact everyone is cheering on them for being powerhouses.

While Superman gets knocked out by an electric fence, invincible just had their characters destroying a planet.

My point is writers should stop being scared of showing a strong Superman. It goes without saying those stories should also fit Superman's character.

I do agree " Superman is OP" used to be true. By no means he should be invincible. Pre-crisis Superman is the posterboy of an OP character. And Kryptonite became nessesary for a reason.

But I would argue this hasn't been an issue since the pre-crisis era ended. It's been ages since Byrne's nerf has been the standard.

" Superman is OP" hasn't been true in decades.

My problem is 2 things:

1) In a story that is meant to go on forever, powerful and recurring enemies will always return. This isn't like DBZ where the bad guy gets killed and Frieza, Cell and Buu don't have to be enemies at the same time. In DC, villains live and join forces. If the world is populated by so many menaces, the worldbuilding breaks. The best way to go around this is have Supes be challenged in ways other than in raw power. It can also get boring after a while. I find it interesting when Superman's opponents try to find ways around his abilities.

2) In a shared universe, crossovers are a thing. An inevitability. There are many protagonists in JL. Everyone must shine.

I am not saying this to be contradictory. It is just that DC is different from DBZ or Invincible. Those stories were allowed to end and had one protagonist, DC has neither of those.

If more Kryptonians are a must, then this keeps his “Last Son” mantle intact. You can be a Kryptonian on Earth but you ain’t the Last Son, you’re not him.

And even if the Kryptonians have a kid, then that kid won't be a son of Krypton as it no longer exists. Yes, this works.

 

[Mystery Spy]

1) In a story that is meant to go on forever, powerful and recurring enemies will always return. This isn't like DBZ where the bad guy gets killed and Frieza, Cell and Buu don't have to be enemies at the same time. In DC, villains live and join forces. If the world is populated by so many menaces, the worldbuilding breaks. The best way to go around this is have Supes be challenged in ways other than in raw power. It can also get boring after a while. I find it interesting when Superman's opponents try to find ways around his abilities.

2) In a shared universe, crossovers are a thing. An inevitability. There are many protagonists in JL. Everyone must shine.

I still believe the same thing I told you earlier. Stories aren’t video games where you need to “balance the world.” It just needs to work for the story you are trying to tell. Sometimes that does mean breaking the world or ignoring some characters.

For example, both Death of Superman movies made it clear only Superman could stop Doomsday. The reason was, of course, Superman is the main character in that story. We didn’t need to worry Green Arrow couldn’t contribute because the story wasn’t about him.

I do get what your main worry is. Of course, if it’s a crossover, we do expect the writers to make everyone useful. But that’s just a writer’s skill issue. Nobody is saying Superman should solo the villains in a crossover,

It goes without saying that Superman stories can also be about his morals. That’s most good Superman stories. Again, I am not saying everything should be a brawl. I am just saying writers should stop being scared of portraying him as powerful as he really is out of fear that the same people online will repeat the same meme that “Superman is OP,” which hasn’t even been true in ages.

 

[Incecticyder]

I still believe the same thing I told you earlier. Stories aren’t video games where you need to “balance the world.” It just needs to work for the story you are trying to tell. Sometimes that does mean breaking the world or ignoring some characters.

For example, both Death of Superman movies made it clear only Superman could stop Doomsday. The reason was, of course, Superman is the main character in that story. We didn’t need to worry Green Arrow couldn’t contribute because the story wasn’t about him.

I do get what your main worry is. Of course, if it’s a crossover, we do expect the writers to make everyone useful. But that’s just a writer’s skill issue. Nobody is saying Superman should solo the villains in a crossover,

It goes without saying that Superman stories can also be about his morals. That’s most good Superman stories. Again, I am not saying everything should be a brawl. I am just saying writers should stop being scared of portraying him as powerful as he really is out of fear that the same people online will repeat the same meme that “Superman is OP,” which hasn’t even been true in ages.

Yes, I get that. We can add the occasional strong guy to the roster. But we should still be adding weaker guys too. Show that even people who could lose to Batman can cause trouble to Superman. Do it like in One Piece where the strong heroes and the weak ones get an opponent to fight and shine through.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

He is able to perform injections as well. The Arkham games even gave him those needle gloves for this exact purpose.
View attachment 8954210

He is also a martial artist fairly skilled in scythe/sickle combat, something that doesn’t come up to often, unfortunately.

One has to accept that Crane is stuck as potential man the character. He could easily be the most interesting Bat villain and a real menace, but writers always choose to sideline him or write him as fear gas guy.

I would sacrifice virgins for a Scarecrow solo series

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

Stories aren’t video games where you need to “balance the world.” It just needs to work for the story you are trying to tell. Sometimes that does mean breaking the world or ignoring some characters.

That is true for self contained stories.
However, large interconnected universes absolutely need to keep track of powerlevels and other shit.
Otherwise, every outcome of every conflict is determined by a popularity contest which sucks.
That's why Batman can defeat everyone, he's more popular than all other characters combined and the DC's bottom line will suffer if he loses to some rando.

This is what originally drew people into Game of Thrones, the fact that your brave protagonist hero got fucked up and that's how life works, the popular hero doesn't always win.
But then, they figured out that certain characters are fan favorites and their merch sells well and they gave them plot armor, making the overall story worse.

Sure, it's good for business but fuck what's good for business.
Art, in order to be good and lasting, needs to go against the money sometimes.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Otherwise, every outcome of every conflict is determined by a popularity contest which sucks.

This is already the case. Now that you bring up Batman, he really is the poster child of a character winning due to popularity.

In fact, I’m struggling to think of modern media where he was around other superheroes and he didn’t end up overshadowing all the other characters.

“Stop being scared of Superman being powerful” doesn’t mean “Superman should win all the time.” I’m assuming the writer is competent enough to tells compelling story with it —that goes without saying.

However, large interconnected universes absolutely need to keep track of powerlevels and other shit.

Do they, though? I mean, I get what both of you are saying. You want a world that makes sense and has worldbuilding to support it “in the background.” That’s perfectly fine. What you are asking for is a believable world.

But if you are telling a story—even if it isn’t “self-contained”—then all that matters is who the relevant characters are to that particular plot. You don’t need to worry about Green Arrow not being able to fight Superman villains.

I would say don’t confuse worldbuilding with storytelling.

 

[Calandrino]

Can Superman throw an object so hard he himself can't catch it?

I'm gonna dissent and say no: any physical object he throws will be subject to the lightspeed barrier, so he should be able to outrun it.

 

[Incecticyder]

This is already the case. Now that you bring up Batman, he really is the poster child of a character winning due to popularity.

As I said, one good counter for Batman would be Zod. If he has Kryptonian power armor, he should be a good match for Batman and his Kryptonite. That is one good idea though.

“Stop being scared of Superman being powerful” doesn’t mean “Superman should win all the time.” I’m assuming the writer is competent enough to tells compelling story with it —that goes without saying.

Now who is asking for a lot?

But if you are telling a story—even if it isn’t “self-contained”—then all that matters is who the relevant characters are to that particular plot. You don’t need to worry about Green Arrow not being able to fight Superman villains.

For one-off stories, that is fine. If the villain gets popular however, expect them to appear more and more. Perhaps they won't have to be defeated by Green Arrow, but they will have to fight someone else too. Same match-ups over and over are boring after all. A fight between Scarecrow and Superman would be very interesting. Or Poison Ivy vs Wonder Woman.

 

[Overly Serious]

I'm gonna dissent and say no: any physical object he throws will be subject to the lightspeed barrier, so he should be able to outrun it.

Now I want to make a villain named Baron Xeno. He robs banks but though you can get closer to him, you can never actually catch him.

 

[Incecticyder]

Now I want to make a villain named Baron Xeno. He robs banks but though you can get closer to him, you can never actually catch him.

There was a Marvel villain that was like that.

 

[Overly Serious]

There was a Marvel villain that was like that.

Yes. It's a play on his name. But also a philosophy/Greek pun.

 

[Incecticyder]

Yes. It's a play on his name. But also a philosophy/Greek pun.

No, I meant a villain from Marvel. She fought Ghost Rider.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

But if you are telling a story—even if it isn’t “self-contained”—then all that matters is who the relevant characters are to that particular plot. You don’t need to worry about Green Arrow not being able to fight Superman villains.

I disagree.
When you have these all-powerful protectors of Earth, why the fuck aren't they dealing with serious threats?

Connected universes are all about continuity. You fuck up the continuity, you need an Infinite Crisis to reset things and get rid of all the plot holes.
If the story is small enough (like a Batman detective story where he goes after some fucker like The Clock King or whoever), it's fine to not involve the larger universe.
However, if your hero is fighting someone who can punch buildings in half, every hero should be at least interested in helping with that.
It's like every horror movie that takes place in modern times needs at least a throwaway line about cell phones because we live in 2026.

Personally, I would split Marvel and DC into several smaller universes that fit each other.
Keep all the alien stuff in one, the realistic grounded stuff in another, all the god and magic stuff in another. That would fix a lot of issues, I think.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

It's like every horror movie that takes place in modern times needs at least a throwaway line about cell phones because we live in 2026.

Horror movies really do need to get away from bad reception because it's only plausible in rural areas. If it takes place in a suburb or city, it should cut to the dispatcher trying to assign nearby officers only to find they're busy with other assignments or eating or in the bathroom or resting or just too far away to get there in time or the protagonist drops the phone while running away before they exposit all the information.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

Horror movies really do need to get away from bad reception because it's only plausible in rural areas. If it takes place in a suburb or city, it should cut to the dispatcher trying to assign nearby officers only to find they're busy with other assignments or eating or in the bathroom or resting or just too far away to get there in time or the protagonist drops the phone while running away before they exposit all the information.

That's why the majority of new horror media takes place before 2002.

 

[Mystery Spy]

When you have these all-powerful protectors of Earth, why the fuck aren't they dealing with serious threats?

Because it's fictional and nothing of this is real. And good writers should care about telling good stories over putting their toys in the correct shelf.

And if you press enough the writer will tell you the lanterns were in space and Superman was in another dimension or whatever. But that's the real reason.

Personally, I would split Marvel and DC into several smaller universes that fit each other.
Keep all the alien stuff in one, the realistic grounded stuff in another, all the god and magic stuff in another. That would fix a lot of issues, I think.

Or maybe we can accept the writers didn't think all the other characters were relevant to that particular story they wanted to tell ?

This is a non issue.

Indeed we will have to agree to disagree but personally I always see DC fans and even the real DC writers obsess over making the universe fit their particular tastes over telling good stories as one of the biggest reason Comics are failing over Manga.

Even the real DC writers can't decide what's the deal with the legion of superheroes or the JSA. Everyone wants to impose their vision.

I hope those words aren't twisted. Yes the universe should make sense I am not against that . But there's a point it becomes killjoy micromanaging.

Everyone wants to make a DC Universes that matches their tastes. Few are willing to actually tell good stories.

I am just making a more humble point that writers should stop being scared of portraying him as powerful as he is.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

Because it's fictional and nothing of this is real.

Ah, so you're one of those.
"It's just fiction so nothing has to make sense, turn your brain off and enjoy the slop."
To quote Captain America
"No.... I don't think I will."

Or maybe we can accept the writers didn't think all the other characters were relevant to that particular story they wanted to tell ?

If they want to do that, they can make their own shit and not get involved in franchises that are older than they are.

writers obsess over making the universe fit their particular tastes

That's what you're advocating for though.
What I'm saying is fuck your tastes, the universe has to have rules that you follow.

one of the biggest reason Comics are failing over Manga.

If you were writing for Dragonball and you suddenly have Krillin beating up all the Sayians, the fans would eat you alive because you broke the rules of the established universe.

there's a point it becomes killjoy micromanaging.

That's why it would be easier to just separate character that don't fit together at all.

The main thing is:
This is not your story, you don't get to just fuck up the worldbuilding and continuity just because you feel like telling your story.
It's why Star Wars is dead now, Rian Johnson decided to shit on the lore and tell his own story.
That's why the MCU is failing, writers don't want to make MCU stories, they want to make their own shit but they also want a budget and a wide release instantly instead of working their way up with smaller projects and build a fanbase over time.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

pretty much all capes have the issue of "where the fuck is everybody else" anytime it's a solo title in an existing universe

 

[Mystery Spy]

Ah, so you're one of those.
"It's just fiction so nothing has to make sense, turn your brain off and enjoy the slop."

It's honestly amazing how you twisted my words into a straw man of people you hate online and replying to things I never said. Such as me supporting Ryan Johnson?What? Are you off your meds?

I apologize for assuming you had the intelligence to understand the nuance that continuity works best in tandem with good writing. My mistake.

Oh and for the record your idea of different universes for each power level tier on DC and Marvel is beyond retarded.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

It's honestly amazing how you twisted my words into a straw man of people you hate online and replying to things I never said. Such as me supporting Ryan Johnson?What? Are you off your meds?

Where did I write that you support Rian Johnson?
Can you quote it, please?
Now who's the one responding to what hasn't been said?

Oh and for the record your idea of different universes for each power level tier on DC and Marvel is beyond retarded.

Is that what you got out of my post?
Read it again, I never said that.