DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Mystery Spy]

Where did I write that you support Rian Johnson?
Can you quote it, please?
Now who's the one responding to what hasn't been said?

Is that what you got out of my post?
Read it again, I never said that.

Gladly. In your strawman you pretended I was advocating for every writer doing whatever they want ( I wasn't by the way) and blaming it for leading to Ryan Johnson shit movies.

Now can you quote me saying that "it's fiction and nothing has to make sense. Just enjoy the slop" or me saying "the world building doesn't have to make sense" or that "weaker characters should beat stronger ones without explanation?" Given your krillin explanation that's what you said

Those were some of your straw mans. Or at least admitt you were doing a Dobson and replying to a strawman because you didn't have arguments to engage with my real arguments?

But we all know you won't do that because that would require intelligence and civility.

Is that what yo u got out of my post?
Read it again, I never saiUd that.

I read it again. It's still retarded.

Given you are only replying to imaginary strawmans I am led to conclude you are either too retarded to understand nuance, or only arguing in bad faith and using me as proxy to reply to people you couldn't reply on Reddit for whatever reason.

So I am just gonna rate you as dumb (accurate), stop wasting my time with you, and move on.

 

[Incecticyder]

Because it's fictional and nothing of this is real.

Their job is to make us believe that it is real temporarily. "You will believe a man can fly!"

Or maybe we can accept the writers didn't think all the other characters were relevant to that particular story they wanted to tell ?

They shouldn't think of every character but if Superman fights a guy whose power is instant death radius or long range spamable gigabombs that take out a city, they better start thinking about how this works. Making that character recurring will be a bitch. Not to mention that losing a city has to make the news in a shared universe. That is why Superman should fight weaker characters that can either hurt him or hold others hostages. Not exclusively mind you but the people who can go toe to toe with the Man of Steel should be rare. Remember "H'el on Earth"? Lots of these guys and there are issues.

Indeed we will have to agree to disagree but personally I always see DC fans and even the real DC writers obsess over making the universe fit their particular tastes over telling good stories as one of the biggest reason Comics are failing over Manga.

I get that but manga are self-contained. Luffy never has to share universe with Cell outside of non-canon crossovers. In DC and Marvel, Batman shares universe with Darkseid. It isn't the same. Self-contained stories have to not result into too big things.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Their job is to make us believe that it is real temporarily. "You will believe a man can fly!"

Yes, I couldn't agree more.

I get people want their world building and lore to make sense and be belivable I do too. I am just surprised to be honest how somepeople don't get storytelling is majorly an illusion, and not math. I am not saying canon power doesn't matter. It does play a part. But stories would be boring if all it matter was who had the bigger stats, like and RPG. Heart, and themes , or heroism. Those can be even more important.

I get that but manga are self-contained. Luffy never has to share universe with Cell outside of non-canon crossovers. In DC and Marvel, Batman shares universe with Darkseid. It isn't the same. Self-contained stories have to not result into too big things.

There's a reason I am not saying any particular plot. I think it goes without saying you don't want to break your setting. My point is more humble.

I just think that if you are telling a Superman story, or if he is an important character, writers should stop being scared of people online complaining he is too too op, and be willing to display his power. He can be powerful and interesting. That's it. That's all I am saying.

 

[Incecticyder]

I just think that if you are telling a Superman story, or if he is an important character, writers should stop being scared of people online complaining he is too too op, and be willing to display his power. He can be powerful and interesting. That's it. That's all I am saying.

They shouldn't be afraid to display his power. But they might have to save those opponents for off-world stories (in outer space) or they might have to make him finish a fight early (sneak attack). A Superman-level sadist would probably be hard to realistically contain on Earth. Not to mention that he wouldn't be capable of being a recurring opponent. It would be hard to greenlight such a character in a shared universe. It is easier to just have mid-level characters with an interesting gimmick. Strong enough to cause damage but also too weak to not be able to deal with. Superman isn't too OP but a fight between gods should be the stuff of legend.

It is also why I am against Candor gaining Supermen. Imagine a city where every bank robber, serial killer and mad scientist punches like Superman. I think that even the citizens would rather vote against yellow sun if it means that they can stop criminals with bullets.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

I'll respond one last time and piss off, this is too frustrating.

In your strawman

What strawman? What the hell are you on about?

you pretended I was advocating for every writer doing whatever they want

You said this:

Because it's fictional and nothing of this is real. And good writers should care about telling good stories over putting their toys in the correct shelf.

What does this mean if not "you can neglect powerlevels and worldbuilding and just do what you feel like doing"?
What does it mean? How should I interpret this?

and blaming it for leading to Ryan Johnson shit movies.

Johnson said the exact same shit about continuity and worldbuilding being 2nd to telling your own story and that's what he did in TLJ, that's why I made an example involving him.
Did you really not get it? I thought it was obvious.

or that "weaker characters should beat stronger ones without explanation?" Given your krillin explanation that's what you said

You're trolling me, bro, there's no way you didn't understand what I meant.
But OK, let me explain in detail.
You said this:

DC writers obsess over making the universe fit their particular tastes over telling good stories as one of the biggest reason Comics are failing over Manga.

I responded by giving you an example of a manga also having established lore and established powerlevels.
That was it.
Did you really not understand it?
Come on, man.

But we all know you won't do that because that would require intelligence and civility.

Civility?
You call me "dumb" and "retarded" while I never once resorted to insults.
You have to be a troll.
Otherwise, I found the thickest man on Kiwi Farms.

 

[Mystery Spy]

They shouldn't be afraid to display his power. But they might have to save those opponents for off-world stories (in outer space) or they might have to make him finish a fight early (sneak attack). A Superman-level sadist would probably be hard to realistically contain on Earth. Not to mention that he wouldn't be capable of being a recurring opponent. It would be hard to greenlight such a character in a shared universe. It is easier to just have mid-level characters with an interesting gimmick. Strong enough to cause damage but also too weak to not be able to deal with. Superman isn't too OP but a fight between gods should be the stuff of legend.

It is also why I am against Candor gaining Supermen. Imagine a city where every bank robber, serial killer and mad scientist punches like Superman. I think that even the citizens would rather vote against yellow sun if it means that they can stop criminals with bull

There are a lot of hypotheticals, but for me it all boils down to the fact that a good writer can make it work without breaking the setting. So yes, I agree in a broad sense.

“Shared universe” is a bit of a loaded term, because comics have gone way past the point where there’s any sort of balance. Every major hero has done overpowered things. I would argue comics are way past the point of being “realistically contained.” Power creep is a huge issue in canon comics. You’re a One Piece fan, so I get that you like a grounded world, but that was only possible because Oda controls everything. DC Comics is, and has always been, a mess.

If you’re talking about official media, you’re more likely to find a “balanced setting” in cinematic universes and cartoons or somewthing under the oversight of few people.

 

[Incecticyder]

There are a lot of hypotheticals, but for me it all boils down to the fact that a good writer can make it work without breaking the setting. So yes, I agree in a broad sense.

That is the issue. There are few writers that have the talent and discipline for that. Most of them pull a Bendis and fill the universe with themselves without caring about pre-established lore. If I were to be asked to make a story set in Middle Earth that is canon, you bet your ass that I would try to make sure it fits. DC and Marvel are largely the same. You are coasting off an established universe, this isn't the time to start your story with "the Earth blows up". Save that for your original work.

“Shared universe” is a bit of a loaded term, because comics have gone way past the point where there’s any sort of balance. Everyone major hero has done overpowered things. I would argue comics are way past the point of being “realistically contained.” Power creep is a huge issue in canon comics.

All the more reason to care about that stuff.

Follow me on this:

Villain is as strong as Superman. But it isn't enough to be told that. We need to SEE and FEEL it both. How do we do that? We have the Villain cause damage. He pick up a bridge and tosses it to another city yelling "CATCH!". He wrecks building and kills people. The stakes are high. Superman arrives and they fight. Villain cheats by bringing others into danger to allow him to land hits at Superman (and because he likes hurting others). As Superman tries to save people, the Villain takes a leave to another city to destroy. Fight resumes and the other city gets wrecked too. The Villain gets defeated but he destroyed 3 cities and is nearly impossible to contain in a prison.

That is a story that would fit in a Superman title but is hard to implement as the amount of damage said Villain would need to cause in order to be taken seriously as an equal to Superman would be enough to affect multiple titles. A villain with Superman-level power and a ton of bloodlust would affect all of the Earth. That is the short of world DC is set in. If we were this close to an Armageddon, it would shake the world and that would require planning. No way would editorial approve it without making it an event involving many heroes. A threat to Superman is a threat to the entire planet.

That is why it is easier to have Superman fight Lex/Metallo/Livewire/Atomic Skull etc etc. They might wreck a building and damage Superman a bit but the effect on the universe can be contained to one title.

You’re a One Piece fan, so I get that you like a grounded world, but that was only possible because Oda controls everything.

One Piece is a story that is internally consistent. It doesn't make sense in our world but in its own universe, it makes sense. That is all I ask for DC and Marvel.

DC Comics is, and has always been, a mess.

So? It will remain such unless they give a damn.

If you’re talking about official media, you’re more likely to find a “balanced setting” in cinematic universes and cartoons or somewthing under the oversight of few people.

Yeah, that is largely better.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

pretty much all capes have the issue of "where the fuck is everybody else" anytime it's a solo title in an existing universe

I always thought it was because the various heroes have their own shit to deal with. You know, like how Batman can't help Green Arrow because he's doing research for a case, or how Superman can't help Wonder Woman because he's on another planet.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I always thought it was because the various heroes have their own shit to deal with. You know, like how Batman can't help Green Arrow because he's doing research for a case, or how Superman can't help Wonder Woman because he's on another planet.

Yeah it's easy enough to handwave but it's still a back burner issue, moreso in Marvel where three quarters of the known universe is in NYC

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Yeah it's easy enough to handwave but it's still a back burner issue, moreso in Marvel where three quarters of the known universe is in NYC

I feel like if you have to acknowledge the existence of other heroes, have them help out in a minor way without overshadowing the one the comic is about. It's not DC, but Jason Aaron did something like this during his run on Thor. In the God Butcher arc, Thor gets help from Iron Man to narrow down the location of a cave he had previously been to centuries ago during his search for Gorr.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I feel like if you have to acknowledge the existence of other heroes, have them help out in a minor way without overshadowing the one the comic is about. It's not DC, but Jason Aaron did something like this during his run on Thor. In the God Butcher arc, Thor gets help from Iron Man to narrow down the location of a cave he had previously been to centuries ago during his search for Gorr.

yeah calling them on the Bat-Phone is a nice way to show they exist but they have their own shit to deal with