Debate Android Raptor about abortion again

[Charlie Delicious]

I agree, good thing we're not talking about balls of goo.

I am.

Things that have never had a conscious experience are the property of the person who created the thing and they can decide what they want to do with it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I am.

Then you're not talking about abortion, it's off topic.

Things that have never had a conscious experience are the property of the person who created the thing and they can decide what they want to do with it.

That includes newborns.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

Then you're not talking about abortion, it's off topic.


That includes newborns.

Nope

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11653234/

I'll give the ladies 25 weeks to do the deed.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

*me entering the thread without reading any previous posts*



A ball of goo should not have rights

I may dislike Android Raptor but this is going to far. Tone it down.

 

[urr13 account]

The spirit of Android Raptor lives on. Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I sort of wish I was around to get yelled at by Android Raptor. Other users seem nostalgic about it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Nope

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11653234/

I'll give the ladies 25 weeks to do the deed.

Are you Android Raptor's alt? She loved posting links as if they proved her point.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

Are you Android Raptor's alt? She loved posting links as if they proved her point.

Do you think the 20 week old goo ball living in a womb is advanced enough to have a conscious experience?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Do you think the 20 week old goo ball living in a womb is advanced enough to have a conscious experience?

Goo balls don't live in wombs to my knowledge.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

Goo balls don't live in wombs to my knowledge.

Do you think the 20 week old fetus in the womb is advanced enough to have a conscious experience?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Do you think the 20 week old fetus in the womb is advanced enough to have a conscious experience?

No, do you think a newborn is?

 

[Charlie Delicious]

No, do you think a newborn is?

Between there and 35 weeks. Yes

Abort away

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Between there and 35 weeks. Yes

Abort away

Prove it.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

Prove it.

I'm not here to prove anything either way, but there are different theories (early- vs late-onset consciousness). For you two to have this discussion, you need to define what you mean by "consciousness."

I followed the link to the abstract that @Charlie Delicious linked (full article not available without payment so didn't read it) and in the citing literature found a more recent article (2023) discussing these theories.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661323002140?pes=vor&utm_source=wiley&getft_integrator=wiley

Discuss.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

Prove it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11653234/

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I'm not here to prove anything either way, but there are different theories (early- vs late-onset consciousness). For you two to have this discussion, you need to define what you mean by "consciousness."

I followed the link to the abstract that @Charlie Delicious linked (full article not available without payment so didn't read it) and in the citing literature found a more recent article (2023) discussing these theories.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661323002140?pes=vor&utm_source=wiley&getft_integrator=wiley

Discuss.

I just go by the dictionary definition.

1. Internal knowledge or conviction; the state or fact of being mentally conscious or aware of something. Cf. consciousness to oneself

Furthermore, I'm merely humoring him because I like steelmanning my opponent's position, that unnecessarily killing babies is ever okay. Whether or not a newborn is conscious is irrelevant to my position, which is killing babies for no reason is always wrong.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11653234/

Cool link. Prove your claim now. You have to actually articulate your argument and cite the relevant evidence, not spam random links and expect me to do your work for you.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

I just go by the dictionary definition.



Furthermore, I'm merely humoring him because I like steelmanning my opponent's position, that unnecessarily killing babies is ever okay. Whether or not a newborn is conscious is irrelevant to my position, which is killing babies for no reason is always wrong.

What's the difference between a fetus and a baby?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

What's the difference between a fetus and a baby?

Nothing, it's linguistic trickery, euphemistic language designed to obfuscate the nature of what the subject is.

 

[Charlie Delicious]

Nothing, it's linguistic trickery, euphemistic language designed to obfuscate the nature of what the subject is.

at what point would you consider a baby created?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

at what point would you consider a baby created?

Conception, the only logical place, naturally.