🐱 Debate rages over whether straight, cis people should be allowed in queer spaces - But ban gays from somewhere and hooboy

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The debate about straight, cis people in queer venues is still raging on. (Getty)

Picture the scene – you go out to your favourite queer club with your friends in tow, but when you walk through the doors, you see a hen party running amok with giant, inflatable penises.
Plenty of queer people will have had some kind of negative experience when it comes to cis, straight people invading their spaces, but many others have had some of the best nights of their life in gay bars, dancing the night away with allies who love them unconditionally.
The question of whether straight, cis people should be welcomed into queer spaces comes up time and time again – and there are no easy answers. Some feel that queer spaces, whether that’s a gay bar or an alcohol free get-together, should be reserved for LGBT+ people so they can express themselves freely.
That raises the question – how do you know if somebody is queer? Some LGBT+ people might dip their toe into queer spaces so they can explore their identity without having to actively come out.

LGBT+ community must avoid ‘assuming’ other people’s sexuality or gender​

It’s a “tricky” topic for Ky Richardson, founder of We Are Queer London. Their group arranges casual get-togethers and buddy-ups for queer women, trans, non-binary and gender non-conforming people.
It’s vital that those people have the space to explore who they are in a safe, non-judgemental way – but it’s also important that we don’t make assumptions about other people’s identities, Ky says.
“Queer spaces that are just for queer people are super important for a variety of reasons,” Ky says. “They can give us a little bit of respite from the kind of micro-aggressions we typically experience in a normative world. They’re also important for more serious reasons. Some queer people don’t feel safe being around cis men, for example, and that could be tied up in earlier trauma.


“I think it’s crucial that some of those spaces exist, but at the same time, we have to be very careful not to assume gender or sexuality. It could be that a cis person or a heterosexual person is questioning, it could be that they’re not out yet. They might need access to this space but not yet be in a position in their life – whether that’s safety, or comfort, or psychologically – to show up as a queer person. So I think we have to be very careful not to make any assumptions. The minute we start excluding cishet people, we could also be excluding those who really need access to that space. It’s a really tricky thing to balance.”

Ky always keeps those sensitivities in mind when organising events with We Are Queer London.

“We Are Queer is marketed to queer women and trans and non-binary folk, including trans men – essentially anyone who’s impacted by misogyny,” they explain. “We don’t explicitly exclude cishet people, but we don’t have them in mind when we’re creating a space. We prioritise and create space specifically for the aforementioned groups of people.”

It’s really about dialogue and open communication, but what we don’t do is specifically exclude anyone.
Ky thinks it’s important they set an expectation for people who come to their events that get-togethers won’t be dominated by cis gay men and straight, cis people.

“LGBTQ spaces can be quite heavily dominated by cis gay men, which we love and we adore, but there’s an expectation that our spaces wouldn’t be dominated by cis gay men. So if we have a group of 50 people for one event and a person says, ‘Can I bring my cis gay male friend?’ We will ask them to check the comfort level of the group so that we can at least set people’s expectations when they come into that space. Or if there’s a cishet friend, we will say, this space isn’t catered for them, and some people might be coming with an expectation that it’s a safe space where they don’t need to navigate that.

“It’s really about dialogue and open communication, but what we don’t do is specifically exclude anyone.”

Straight, cis allies should be welcomed – but only if they truly respect the community​

That sentiment is echoed by Sarah Cheung, a 32-year-old lesbian from Northern Ireland who now lives in Scotland. She thinks it’s fine for non-LGBT+ people to visit queer spaces – but respect is key.

“I personally think there is nothing wrong with it as long as they are respectful and remember why these spaces exist,” Sarah says. Having said that, she can understand why some LGBT+ people might prefer that these spaces were reserved specifically for queer people.

“There have been times that I have seen straight people saying inappropriate things and touching LGBTQ+ people without their permission because of the negative stereotypes they have in their heads thanks to media bias,” she says.

Despite this, Sarah doesn’t think queer spaces should be cut off from straight, cis allies who truly respect the community.

“We need allies more than ever, especially with the growing issue of gender critics popping up. I say let them come but remind them to be respectful.”

Like Ky, Sarah points out that the LGBT+ community shouldn’t be policing other people’s identities. She understands why people might be suspicious of a hen party turning up to a gay bar, but she also makes the point that some members of that group could be queer themselves.

Yes, have fun and share a laugh with us, but please remember the barriers we had to overcome to get here.
“That being said, I do think that as the LGBTQ+ community becomes more accepted in our society, I do think that parties like these need to be reminded to be respectful of our spaces,” Sarah says.

“Yes, have fun and share a laugh with us, but please remember the barriers we had to overcome to get here. I do think we should encourage more of our straight allies to come to theme events at our spaces to learn more about our history. This is so they can see from our point of view why having these spaces is really significant and close to our hearts.”

Notably, Sarah says she’s never experienced any issues herself with straight, cis people in queer spaces – but she has been “hassled” by LGBT+ people because she’s Chinese. Some people think racist comments are just “banter”, Sarah says.

“In 2014 at Belfast Pride, I encountered a cis butch woman at the women’s bathroom of a gay bar and she asked if I was Japanese or Chinese and whether I can cook Chinese food. She stopped once her friend came out of the cubicles and told her off,” she says.

Sarah would like to see a wider conversation take place within the community about racism in queer spaces – it’s not just straight, cis people who are creating toxic environments.

Cisgender, heterosexual allies must ’embrace the culture’ in queer spaces​

Luke Dixon agrees that it’s all about respect. He’s a gay man who’s “more than happy” to share queer spaces with straight, cis people – but he thinks they should only turn up if they’ve been invited.

“Most of my inner circle is queer with the exception of two or three het women, but I would be reluctant to rock up with a group of straight women as it’s unfair on the rest of the attendees,” he says.

“But where is the line between protecting queer spaces and discriminating against those outside of that spectrum? I think as long as the straight people invited into these spaces completely embrace the culture in a respectful and appropriate way, we should be able to share a space that is all about inclusivity.”

He also thinks it’s “inappropriate” for hen parties to turn up to gay bars. “Queer spaces are not a tourist attraction, nor a hot spot for entertainment,” Luke says. “They’re a safe space for the minority, whereas straight cis women can find safety in many other venues.”

Ben Tuffley, also a gay man, thinks it’s fine for straight, cis people to go to queer spaces – but like Luke, he would prefer that they were invited first. He also makes the point that the person bringing a straight, cis friend to a queer space needs to be mindful of their behaviour and make sure they’re not doing anything inappropriate or offensive to the community.

He’s also frustrated by groups, such as hen parties, going to gay bars. He worries that some groups of straight people see LGBT+ spaces as a “spectacle” to behold.

“That being said I do know some women go to gay spaces because they are perceived as safer,” Ben says.

“That is actually a sad indictment of our society.”
 
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I don't know about legally banning straight people but there's certainly some room for more consideration. I hate how when with Left Wing / Liberal friends they kept wanting to go to a gay bar to (a) show how tolerant and progressive they are or (b) feel safer going there because they think guys aren't going to hit on the girl they're with.

Meanwhile the actually gay people just want somewhere they can hit on someone of their own sex because they know that person is actually gay too. I know when I got dragged to a gay nightclub, the bouncer tried to dissuade my girlfriend and I from entering but ultimately they couldn't bar us and my girlfriend was determined because she was "bi". Like every other Left Wing university girl at that age.

Imagine you're gay (easier for some of you!) and a bunch of straight progressive types keep coming into the bar every night because they're so "cool" to have gay friends; or they're "queer". You'd want to ban the fuckers, too.
 
Why would any normal person want to go there to begin with?
Absolutely. Much to-do about nothing. NFG here.
On the contrary both of you. See my post above - "Liberal" types love going to gay bars for "the atmosphere", because they're "queer" (i.e. straight with a haircut) or to show how super okay they are with gayness and love gay people. Or simply because they think no guy will hit on their girlfriend there.

You are obviously not such people but they exist and gravitate towards gay clubs for reasons I gave above. So my eyes glazed over after three lines of the article, but I agree with the headline. Let gay people have their space.
 
If Pluma Gay by Los Morancos isn't playing at full volume during happy hour, then what is it good for?

 
The gate has always been open but straight and straight minded people don’t want to be near it
 
On the contrary both of you. See my post above - "Liberal" types love going to gay bars for "the atmosphere", because they're "queer" (i.e. straight with a haircut) or to show how super okay they are with gayness and love gay people. Or simply because they think no guy will hit on their girlfriend there.

You are obviously not such people but they exist and gravitate towards gay clubs for reasons I gave above. So my eyes glazed over after three lines of the article, but I agree with the headline. Let gay people have their space.
Just to confirm, it's been this way for at least over 20 years. I don't know what it's like these days, but 'back in the day' there tended to be more women than men at the gay bars I used to go to... There's much I could say on the matter but it'd probably just turn into a screed...

The main difference, as far as I'm aware is, back then, women used the excuse of being able to be friends with men without the 'tension' of sexual relations as the reason for being friends with gay men. These days they don't bother with that and just claim they are "queer" themselves... whatever that means.
 
If you are straight, why do you want to be in a "queer space" to begin with? Are you a fucking fag?
Or you're trying to score with a fag hag. Weirdly enough they tend to like guys who know which hole to put it in.
As much as I think the sciences are a joke anymore; has anyone tried to link narcissism and being gay? Because the only straight people I know who are up their own ass this much are narcissists.
This is literally a gay rule of thumb. The "boyfriend twins" phenomenon, fagolescence, and need to be the biggest fish in a small (dating) pond makes for really self-involved people, especially since men in general are very visually oriented, so men who like men know that they need to look good to make an impression.
 
claim they are "queer" themselves... whatever that means.
Oh I know this one. It means if they are exceptionally drunk and desperate for attention they might make out with their friend. If they're uber-queer there might even be some boob-grabbing over the clothes. The only non-heterosexual sex they'll have is a threesome with a BF, or the minuscule chance a real lesbian encounters them and takes advantage.
 
Picture the scene – you go out to your favourite queer club with your friends in tow, but when you walk through the doors, you see a hen party running amok with giant, inflatable penises.
You mean... like Pride?
images (1).jpg

If Pluma Gay by Los Morancos isn't playing at full volume during happy hour, then what is it good for?

Ah, I see you're a wo/man of culture.
 
Bake the straight cake bigot. White cake with white frosting for me. Follow that up with happy birthday and one of the names of the apostles (-Judas) or Mary.
 
“LGBTQ spaces can be quite heavily dominated by cis gay men, which we love and we adore, but there’s an expectation that our spaces wouldn’t be dominated by cis gay men. So if we have a group of 50 people for one event and a person says, ‘Can I bring my cis gay male friend?’ We will ask them to check the comfort level of the group so that we can at least set people’s expectations when they come into that space. Or if there’s a cishet friend, we will say, this space isn’t catered for them, and some people might be coming with an expectation that it’s a safe space where they don’t need to navigate that.

So this is why the organization went out of it's way to avoid mentioning gay men in the first half of the article.

Yet at the same time they don't want to exclude anyone by assuming their gender. Just tell your gay friend to say he's thinking about transitioning. Or better yet, go somewhere else. Who wants to hang out with a bunch of troons.
He also thinks it’s “inappropriate” for hen parties to turn up to gay bars. “Queer spaces are not a tourist attraction, nor a hot spot for entertainment,” Luke says. “They’re a safe space for the minority, whereas straight cis women can find safety in many other venues.”

You mean like the bathrooms, locker rooms, change rooms and other female only spaces that now must freely let dicks dangle around in front of little girls? You've already invaded all our spaces and told us to STFU about it. But if some actual real life women with ovaries and everything come to a gay bar it's "muh kweer safespace!" tears. :roll:

Sorry. But if you invade our spaces then we have every right to invade yours. Fair is fair.
 
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