Debate user CrunkLord420 on saving the White Race - Is Western Civilization doomed or has someone been bingeing on Terry Davis for far too long?

You simply don't.
You need connections and mass politics with simple shared goals and a stated desire to set aside secondary issues.
Either there is a mortal danger that the Europeans face and they HAVE to work together according to their survival instincts and fight between themselves later, or there's no danger and we just gonna rock&roll like it's the 60s cause all's fucking great and there's nothing to worry about.
Sure, logically speaking you need numbers and connections to effect change on a civilization-wide scale, but that's a copout in its own right because then you're stuck watching everything burn down around you until a sufficiently large group to glom onto comes along and for all you know that may not happen until long after you're dead if it happens at all. There are points in time when logic and pragmatism become excuses for apathy. I'm not saying there are any easy solutions to these problems but if they do exist anywhere leaning on conventional modes of thought to find them isn't necessarily going to cut it. If it takes a complete lunatic to somehow discover something new on their own then the results will speak for themselves. For all the inherent futility of individual effort there's still a need for it.
 
The main point of contention in all of this seems to be the "how" rather than the "what" or "why". It doesn't take a genius to see that TRS and other similar groups/online personalities are useless at best (and even that's probably being way too generous). Calling something like White Nationalism as a whole a useless dead end ideology with a history of failure is hard to argue against in objective terms even if it's upsetting to some. Recognizing entropy on a civilizational and ideological scale is all well and good, because even ideas and movements do inevitably erode into husks of their former selves over time. You could even convincingly argue that Western Civilization is already dying or dead and there's nothing that can be done to save it because every civilization eventually collapses.

I don't know what TRS means.

For once I give my true and honest opinion without any shitposting.

Everything is shit, nothing can be salvaged, destroy it and rebuild. It's really that simple.

I'm not a big thinker, I'm not very clever and I don't know much but I can see and everything that I see is shit. Things I like die and get replaced with shit. The Western world has gone mad and things are only getting worse.

I don't trust any politician. All they care about is my vote so they can get into a comfy position and pocket their own pockets. I don't trust journos bc everyday I see how they lie and manipulate and push narratives, false narratives I may add. I don't trust cops bc I live in a fucking country where I can get arrested for saying niggerfaggot and if the system wants to punish me for saying niggerfaggot then not a single cop will question it and not arrest me. Every single cop will follow his orders. I hate the banksters and the whole financial mafia system bc they lie, rob and steal. If they make profits they keep them and try anything to avoid paying any taxes while me, the little dumb taxpayer has to bail them out when they fuck up. They are getting richer while the most of us don't and try everything to not get poorer. Same for big ass multi national multi billion corporations. Elon Musk doesn't care about me, that Amazon guy doesn't care about me, Bill Gates doesn't care about me, none of these fuckers at the top of the system cares about me. They only care about their profits and even worse, in the moment a lot of them support an ideogoly of utter irrationality.
They destroy this wonderful planet just for their profits. They destroy and corrupt everything that is good and beautiful and precious. They literally poison everything and burn everything down. They sell us poison and cheap ass crap. They give us bread and games to distract us so we don't revolt. And all of it with the help of the politicians, the cops and the press support them and lick their boots. The machine doesn't care about me, my family, my friends or my people. They only see us as cattle. So fuck them. Fuck them all and burn them down.

Why trying to clinch on something that is dying and not worth saving? Reforming shit never helped. It actually made shit worse and that's why we are in the state we are in. We reformed and reformed and let the worst of the worst do it and slide into positions of power. The rot of immorality, irrationality and corruption has grown to deep. Get over it and destroy it. Let nature heal while we rebuild. As an European I actually only care about Europe and I want Europe for white Europeans. France for the white French man, Germany for the white German man, etc. I want Europe for the white man and the people. Where we can live freely and prosper and live from the fruit of our own labor, without any masters who are in their positions which they never earned and only got there bc they lied and cheated and manipulated and who don't care about me/us. I'm not an anarchist in the sense of "hurr durr get rid of all power" but I will never follow some sharped dress man in a nice looking suit bc that suit looks so nice and who manipulated his way to the top or had the luck of being born with a golden spoon up his arse. And I certainly won't ever follow anyone who hasn't earned his position of power. How do earn a position of power? You earn it by action. Actions always speaks louder than words. And your actions better align with your principles or I'm going to call you a hypocrite.

I don't need anyone to tell me how things are bc I can see for myself how things are. I don't need Crunklord to tell me anything or any guy on YouTube or whatever. I just have to see and observe on my own and I realize that everything is shit.

I'm a simple man and that's my simple retarded opinion.

People can negrate me for it or get mad at me for it and I don't care. I won't throw shit at anyone for not agreeing with me. Everyone can make up his own mind. I can accept people not agreeing with me. I don't even want to try to change anyone's mind. You can all think and see for yourself.

Let's say we accept all these arguments at face value. Following from that how does one act on this knowledge? If everything is already persisting in an irreparable state of decay how do you as an individual who recognizes that fact then go about destroying this rotting monolithic husk you're enveloped in? I can't claim to have any convincing or genuinely useful answers to this question myself and I don't think anyone else does either.

I honestly don't know. Look, I have my retarded opinion and people can call it cringe or stupid or whatever. Doesn't really matter for me. And it may be a stupid opinion and I may be an idiot but I'm not that much of an idiot that I wouldn't know that just going on the street and trying to burn shit down will work. It doesn't. That's not how things work.
Unfortunately I don't know how to change things to the better. I absolutely don't fucking know.
I have found some answers for myself, answers like how I want to live, how I can live so I can look in the mirror and not hate myself. Trying to uphold my own principles and morales and live by them as good as I can. I'm not saying I'm a good person tho. I just try my best and not to be a complete piece of shit.
And not getting depressed about shit but trying to stay optimistic. That's very important.
I can't save the world and I can't burn clown world down and to be completely honest I'm too old and broken anyways. That's the reality. But one day, things might get better again.

So if you want an answer from me here is my answer: Try to be good to the people you care about. Try to not let the shit drag you down. Try to uphold your morals as good as you can.
 
but that's a copout in its own right because then you're stuck watching everything burn down around you until a sufficiently large group to glom onto comes along and for all you know that may not happen until long after you're dead if it happens at all.
Yeah but that's how life works. Most of us here live incredibly sheltered lives that are basically an unreal pseudo-existence of sorts. It's also very fake, and it's inevitable that this bubble of safety will soon break. It's enough to go and look at telegram channels with footage from the 2 wars going on now, if that shit doesn't wake you up, nothing will. Yes you might die before your goals are realized. Well, tough luck?
White collectivism is a form of mass politics and no elite will save us or adopt it, unless it's somehow beneficial for them. This is the first lesson Europeans need to learn. No Meloni. No Trump. No Farage. These people are all rich and are able to isolate themselves from the effects of mass migration and degeneracy, with ease. There is a need for cheap labor. There is a need for pensions to be paid, and taxes to be gathered. Whites are barely reproducing, they are self-hating (in average) and insanely cowardly. This is a group with a severely declining influence, and the first thing that needs to happen is for that truth to set in.
Only these harsh truths will be able to catalyze reaction, and only reaction can uproot elites, and only massive groups of people that are terminally angry and unhappy will be able to skip over the hate speech laws and diversity police that the elites have in place to tame individuals that get uppity.
These large groups also are not "built", they simply happen due to catalyzing events.
So I'd say enjoy the ride for now. And be worried about the masses of gruggs after they uproot the elites, cause shit'll get nasty.
 
Jesus, get addicted to opiates or something
 
Let's say we accept all these arguments at face value. Following from that how does one act on this knowledge?
The only good action to take is to embrace smaller communities, healthy human connections, and to stop fighting our nature. We simply aren't meant to interact with each other at this massive scale because that was simply not possible for most of our history. We make a myriad of harmful chemicals that only end up destroying the environment, since these chemicals don't naturally occur either at all or in such quantities/densities. We made the Internet and social media, and now no one interacts with each other face to face like we as a species were used to. We have evolved to be deeply spiritual creatures, and now most people are hopelessly lost "euphoric" atheists without a core set of values to believe in. Religion also has aspects like duties one may have beyond the mortal realm so to speak. If you have nothing to take pride in, nothing to believe in, nothing to give even a shred of a fuck about, you start behaving like the modern negro in a Gucci store.

Why trying to clinch on something that is dying and not worth saving? Reforming shit never helped. It actually made shit worse and that's why we are in the state we are in. We reformed and reformed and let the worst of the worst do it and slide into positions of power. The rot of immorality, irrationality and corruption has grown to deep. Get over it and destroy it. Let nature heal while we rebuild. As an European I actually only care about Europe and I want Europe for white Europeans. France for the white French man, Germany for the white German man, etc. I want Europe for the white man and the people. Where we can live freely and prosper and live from the fruit of our own labor, without any masters who are in their positions which they never earned and only got there bc they lied and cheated and manipulated and who don't care about me/us. I'm not an anarchist in the sense of "hurr durr get rid of all power" but I will never follow some sharped dress man in a nice looking suit bc that suit looks so nice and who manipulated his way to the top or had the luck of being born with a golden spoon up his arse. And I certainly won't ever follow anyone who hasn't earned his position of power. How do earn a position of power? You earn it by action. Actions always speaks louder than words. And your actions better align with your principles or I'm going to call you a hypocrite.
Including this here because I think it hits on or is connected to a lot of what I'm trying to get at. I really like how you laid out your stance, and I couldn't come close to that level of quality with my current insomnia. Smaller systems are much easier to manage democratically, and this ties into what I'm getting at in the previous paragraph.

I don't necessarily disagree with your main arguments and I think I have even expressed a number of these points in prior posts.
To clarify this sentence a bit, I don't disagree with the main sentiments but I think there's more to it than whitey being fubar. I still stand by the points I made and wouldn't otherwise waste the page space with something half-assed, but I could have worded a few things better.
 
So if you want an answer from me
It's more about the questions posed by the premise of the thread, meaning Crunklord's posts in the TRS thread as shown in the opening post.

Only these harsh truths will be able to catalyze reaction, and only reaction can uproot elites, and only massive groups of people that are terminally angry and unhappy will be able to skip over the hate speech laws and diversity police that the elites have in place to tame individuals that get uppity.
You're not strictly wrong in principle, but I believe having the raw will to act in a crisis regardless of all other considerations even if it's ultimately in an insane, completely irrational manner is more important than acknowledging reality if your acknowledgement of it results in capitulation. If enough individual unhinged retards throw themselves upon the gears of the machine it will eventually break whether rational actors want it to or not. The key is that no system is perfect or eternal so any damage one can do to it, no matter how seemingly insignificant, even at grievous personal cost and no gain is useful in the long run as just one step forward. More than anything else losing the will to act is tantamount to death on a personal level.

The only good action to take is to embrace smaller communities, healthy human connections, and to stop fighting our nature. We simply aren't meant to interact with each other at this massive scale because that was simply not possible for most of our history. We make a myriad of harmful chemicals that only end up destroying the environment, since these chemicals don't naturally occur either at all or in such quantities/densities. We made the Internet and social media, and now no one interacts with each other face to face like we as a species were used to. We have evolved to be deeply spiritual creatures, and now most people are hopelessly lost "euphoric" atheists without a core set of values to believe in. Religion also has aspects like duties one may have beyond the mortal realm so to speak. If you have nothing to take pride in, nothing to believe in, nothing to give even a shred of a fuck about, you start behaving like the modern negro in a Gucci store.
That's definitely important but it's not enough on its own. For some striving to be more human and social in healthy ways is necessary to survive, for others they should dehumanize themselves even more and become as antisocial as possible of their own volition in order to become instruments dedicated to a single purpose until they destroy themselves. Nothing new can emerge from the ashes without both types of people.
 
For some striving to be more human and social in healthy ways is necessary to survive, for others they should dehumanize themselves even more and become as antisocial as possible of their own volition in order to become instruments dedicated to a single purpose until they destroy themselves.
I agree. In smaller communities, those people are the village idiot. Village idiots don't end up getting very far until they gain strength in retarded numbers. Small communities of averagely reasonable people were able to survive relatively well at small scale because there weren't enough retards to justify and enable their batshit antisocial behavior. Any community of easily swayed simpletons that collapsed from critical mass of idiocy deserved to be weeded out of the evolutionary tree anyway, and the damage from that on our species as a whole is minimal due to a lack of centralization. We need to make it so that a few bad apples can't bring down the entire fucking tree.

For a quick example, look at what happened over the 2010s. Dumb faggots were able to gather on tumblr and twitter with relative impunity and surround themselves with a global community of similar degenerates who will never disagree with them, all under threat of ostracization from one of the only groups who will put up with their lunacy if they ever step out of line. Echo chambers and hugboxes work so well because they can easily trick anyone, even the more intelligent and insightful people, into believing their bad views are very common and held by most normies around them IRL. Anyone who disagrees with those bad beliefs are hateful bigots who are denying their right to exist. Notice how nearly all of these groups talk about validation so much? That's because no sensible person around them would validate or enable their horseshit uncoerced.
 
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White people are fairly demoralized. It isn't cool or interesting to be white, you also an oppressor and whatever else they want to throw on top of that. So why should you fight for the white race if most of the race doesn't believe in fighting for it?

Thought about this a little and remembered something I told someone else. You are never going to be able to change people's minds about saving the white race if you can't get this image of most normal people's heads that the only people who want to save the white race are gross, illiterate trailer park trash. If you want things to change in that regard, you need to show perfectly normal white people from the middle class taking pride in their race and being unapologetic about it. If people call them a racist, they just shrug and say what is wrong with that? They are nice married couples with several white children raising their kids to be proud to be white, of their heritage, of their country and those kids taking that lesson to heart. Slowly the image of being proud of your race being something only the worst ones of your race do, it just becomes normal and accepted. Once that is in place you can start introducing to these people why the white race is threatened and they should want to fight for it.

I'm not a wignat because I think that opens the door to a lot of in fighting about what is white even?
 
I agree with one exception: that whites are beyond saving.

No one is beyond saving. I'll concede a sweeping number of white people are saturated in the koolaid and beyond any assistance or deserved redemption, but to condemn everything to the funeral pyre because a bunch of boomers and box-wine moms decided having DREAMERS as neighbors was a good idea....is as insane and self-destructive as their ideology. Team sports are retarded, but burning down everyone might be the most speshul take of them all.

If you're unwilling to help people, don't be shocked when you're not offered help in return. The edgy allure of riding solo loses its' charm pretty quickly.

Separate from people: the West can return to dust. Representative Democracy (read: modern democracy) is flawed from its' very inception. Alexis De Tocqueville highlights this very effectively in his writings. Representative Democracy was never going to pan out long term, as it never had in past empires.
 
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