Debate user "NotSendingTheirBest" on the ethics and morality of executing offending animal and child abusers

[Vince McMahon]

Do you trust the governing body, or even the people, to not take a life unjustly? And how many dead offenders are worth one innocent?
That’s what it comes down to for me.

That's my problem as well. An innocent isn't worth 10 properly bad to the bone bad guys.

 

[Perspicacity]

While I don't believe in capital punishment for the most part... these people are a special case. If we are talking about raping and killing puppies and children...... there is literally no rehabilitation at that point, they are too dangerous to ever leave a jail cell. Give them the chair.

 

[Pukebucket]

@Mr. Skeltal and @NotSendingTheirBest, can you both move this conversation over the fuck here please.

 

[A Cardboard Box]

I think we should just shoot people for serious infractions. it would be more of a deterrent to know that if you rob someone, immediately after the trial you just get taken into public square and shot in the back of the head. Leave the body there for a few days to really drive it home. Our recidivism rate is over 70% and most repeat offenders commit gradually worsening crimes. Nip it in the bud by just blasting them the first time.

 

[Pukebucket]

While I don't believe in capital punishment for the most part...these people are a special case. If we are talking about raping and killing puppies and children...... there is literally no rehabilitation at that point, they are too dangerous to ever leave a jail cell. Give them the chair.

I agree on all but the last part of the sentiment. They are indeed too dangerous to leave a jail cell for sure, but a lot of these creeps are total cowards who can't or won't lash out against adults, hence why they target puppies and kids. Leaving them alive to suffer in prison is only a win-lose to the killer or rapist who gets to live the rest of his life hoping he doesn't get Epsteined or Dahmered, and poor schmucks who sincerely think hell exists after death and he'll have eternity to atone.

Death is a mercy to these people.

 

[AnOminous]

If someone says they hope this guy gets raped and murdered in prison they aren't saying a fucking thing about their opinion of capital punishment in general. They're just saying they wish for the worst for this specific dude.

 

[dirtydeanna96]

His cruelty alone should land him in a dark, cold place where he can return to the usual world no earlier than 20 years

Just 20 years? Levi is still young.
He needs solitary confinement untill natural death.
Keep him alive and isolated until he's 85. No human (or doggy) contact.

 

[HeraldofNurgle]

I dunno sometimes these people would rather die than face prison. Leathal injection is too swift a death. Maybe it would be more of a punishment to make them serve in gen pop, and if they somehow manage to survive, brand (PEDO) or the like on their forheads, Inglorious Bastards style. They can't ever hide what they are then.

I think I heard somewhere about an all pedo village or so with nobody but them and guards. I don't know how well that's working for them.

I also feel like George Carlin in that we should bring back gladiator fights and make the worst of humanity fight for our amusement. Think of how many roads and schools could be fixed up from ticket sales.

 

[Urist Steelthrone]

Just 20 years? Levi is still young.
He needs solitary confinement untill natural death.
Keep him alive and isolated until he's 85. No human (or doggy) contact.

Solitary confinement is overkill. He would completely lose his mind. I know that's the idea but that's seems too cruel for me. In plus, you want the victim to be fully aware of their surroundings. How is it a punishment if they don't know that they are being punished due to brain melting delirium?

Leathal injection is too swift a death.

I disagree. Most executioners don't know how to administer lethal injection properly. Second, most prisoners have poor health so their veins are shit. That fucks up the procedure. Third, some states are cutting corners and using more unpredictable drugs. Finally, the drugs are running out so we have to find another way to execute prisoners. All of this has ruined the reputation to lethal injection.

 

[A Cardboard Box]

Solitary confinement is overkill. He would completely lose his mind. I know that's the idea but that's seems too cruel for me.



I disagree. Most executioners don't know how to administer lethal injection properly. Second, most prisoners have poor health so their veins are shit. That fucks up the procedure. Finally, the drugs are running out so we have to find another way to execute prisoners.

I buy 5.56 rounds at $0.19 a pop. I also know how to administer it properly.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

>permanently removing incurable offending pedophiles from the population

Permanently removing is fine. Killing an incurable paedophile is a different story.

What is the difference, morally speaking, between throwing someone in a dingy cell and locking the door forever (meaning they are in jail until they die with no hope of getting out) and killing them?

40 years of food spent keeping someone alive who will never be a meaningful part of society?

 

[Safir]

>It offers a catharsis to the victims or victims' families and acts as an ultimate punishment.

Does it? A catharsis would be to undo the damage he has done. This damage is erased only by long years of healing or suicide.

Look up catharsis in a dictionary. Also yes, victims' families are happy when murderers are executed. (It's not a good day in their lives, because they once again have to face the murder of their relative head on, but they do express satisfaction, and after that, things get better.)

Nice essay but would you care to explain why you're so opposed to permanently removing incurable offending pedophiles from the population?

I can explain. Because the standard of declaring someone guilty is "beyond reasonable doubt", which means the same punishment applies when the accused is an out and proud rapist and when there are multiple questionable links like verbal accusations, psych assessments, DNA (jurors don't know how it works and have it badly explained), computer networks, and stay tuned for deepfakes and such. In Russia, a Tor exit node operator (a massive faggot, but not a terrorist) spent a year behind bars being investigated for someone else's shitposting (could've gotten 17 years; the charges were later dropped). In the US, some guy was locked up because the EMTs who treated him for a drug incident or something brought his DNA to a crime scene. Again in Russia, a man got 12 years because the mother of his roastie girlfriend's felon ex told the girlfriend's 4-year-old daughter (by another ex) to "please" accuse him of molestation. The girl was taught to never refuse a polite request, see.

And if there IS a difference between "beyond reasonable doubt" and actual incontrovertible proof, rapists will make sure to not leave any of the latter.

Some of the evidence and accusations comes from friends and family of the perp. Friends and family will be more reluctant to come forward if they think "they" would kill the rapist by doing so. Jurors will cuck out and vote not guilty for the same reason.

Finally, corruption is a thing. Remember the miscarriage of justice which allowed Juicy Omelette to go free? Speaking of Miscarriage, where's Shelly? False accusations of kitten rape are handy for a perp with ties to the local justice system to throw at witnesses and victims who continue making noise. After a couple of these stories surface, it'll be even harder to sentence real rapists.

 

[Pukebucket]

What is the difference, morally speaking, between throwing someone in a dingy cell and locking the door forever (meaning they are in jail until they die with no hope of getting out) and killing them?

40 years of food spent keeping someone alive who will never be a meaningful part of society?

I hear the "what about the food money" argument a lot but it actually costs taxpayers more fucking money to get people on death row from appeal fees alone than it would to keep them alive in prison until they died of natural (or suspect) causes. Death row inmates cost upwards of a million more than general population inmates on average per inmate. The final injection (since electric chair is too unreliable and shooting range is too public) in Virginia in 2017 went for something like 16k, because the European chemical companies that make the shot are leaving the business and it's causing wild inflation. Due to how long it takes for death penalty cases a lot of the time, you're still adding in food and medical care costs regardless for upwards of however long it takes until he dies; additionally, a lot of inmates will just neck themselves after dragging on the courts for upwards of two decades once they know they're going to die, resulting in even more wasted cost AND decades of suffering for the victim's families.

I get the whole "hur hur a bullet is cheap" thing but if you're still trying to get him murdered with the American legal system it costs a prettier penny to do so than it would be to lock him up forever and throw away the key.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

I hear the "what about the food money" argument a lot but it actually costs taxpayers more fucking money to get people on death row from appeal fees alone than it would to keep them alive in prison until they died of natural (or suspect) causes. Death row inmates cost upwards of a million more than general population inmates on average per inmate. The final injection (since electric chair is too unreliable and shooting range is too public) in Virginia in 2017 went for something like 16k, because the European chemical companies that make the shot are leaving the business and it's causing wild inflation. Due to how long it takes for death penalty cases a lot of the time, you're still adding in food and medical care costs regardless for upwards of however long it takes until he dies; additionally, a lot of inmates will just neck themselves after dragging on the courts for upwards of two decades once they know they're going to die, resulting in even more wasted cost AND decades of suffering for the victim's families.

I get the whole "hur hur a bullet is cheap" thing but if you're still trying to get him murdered with the American legal system it costs a prettier penny to do so than it would be to lock him up forever and throw away the key.

So don't put him on "death row". He's given a death sentence, let him have his appeals like literally any other inmate, and once those have run out, carry out the sentence at the nearest convenient time. Why does being on death row cost more?

Your explanation isn't a valid criticism of my idea because the situation it presents is, while true, fucking ridiculous. There's no good reason why people on death row should cost the taxpayer more.

 

[AnOminous]

So don't put him on "death row". He's given a death sentence, let him have his appeals like literally any other inmate, and once those have run out, carry out the sentence at the nearest convenient time. Why does being on death row cost more?

Your explanation isn't a valid criticism of my idea because the situation it presents is, while true, fucking ridiculous. There's no good reason why people on death row should cost the taxpayer more.

They require a lot more security, because people on Death Row will just fucking kill you if they get the slightest excuse, having absolutely nothing to lose, and the necessity of being sure about the correctness of it costs a lot more. You can't reverse it later, after all, if it turns out you were wrong, unlike the person locked up.

 

[Still Anonymous For This]

is it worth it?

To give a child the closure and understanding that the person who hurt them will never do so again no matter what happens? That no matter what happens, no matter what fluke of justice or myriad error, they will never have to be frightened of waking up to find that person in the same room as them?

I'll flip that switch.

 

[The Curmudgeon]

I don't want to get a "mad on the Internet" rating, but this does infuriate me that you would even consider any kindness or mercy to people who have no qualms whatsover about harming animals, kids, and possibly other adults in such inhuman ways. I'll just say this: You are an enabler. Either you don't care what people like are doing or you support it. I can't think of any good reason why you would just give people like that a slap on the wrist. In a perfect world, abusers like the one you describe would be given the death penalty. I could settle with life in prison too. That's all I have to say on this topic.

 

[Meowthkip]

Oh, great, it's in its own thread now. Wonderful.

@NotSendingTheirBest Thanks for being another one of those internet people who has a stance that I agree with but articulates it in such a way that makes you look like a smug know-it-all. Needed another one of those in my life.

 

[Vince McMahon]

Oh, great, it's in its own thread now. Wonderful.

@NotSendingTheirBest Thanks for being another one of those internet people who has a stance that I agree with but articulates it in such a way that makes you look like a smug know-it-all. Needed another one of those in my life.

If you perceive it as smug, that's your problem. I express my thoughts the best I can, so fuck off.

 

[Fareal]

I do not support the death penalty, but I cannot find in my heart to be sorry when a rapist of children is fatally shanked in jail, and I don't blame the guards for looking the other way every so often. (See the prison career of Ian Huntley)