Debate whether PTSD is real

[melty]

Re: Grimm, I’m getting pretty steamed with everyone under the sun claiming they have PTSD because someone was mean to them once. It makes it harder for people who actually have it to seek treatment, because they don’t want to be associated with these grifters and whiners.

Hot take but PTSD was always bullshit. It was invented by psychiatrists after the Vietnam War. Nobody else but Americans would invade another country, rape and murder the people there, and then claim the attackers they sent are now disabled and need sympathy and gibs. Of course this scam has caught on with every other responsibility dodger and it's definition has expanded to everything because it was made up, political bs in the first place.

 

[Free the Pedos]

Hot take but PTSD was always bullshit. It was invented by psychiatrists after the Vietnam War. Nobody else but Americans would invade another country, rape and murder the people there, and then claim the attackers they sent are now disabled and need sympathy and gibs. Of course this scam has caught on with every other responsibility dodger and it's definition has expanded to everything because it was made up, political bs in the first place.

My nigger in faggotry, your idea doesn’t even make sense. The first widespread reports of PTSD in the modern era were after WWI, though of course it went by another name.

 

[strawberry15]

Hot take but PTSD was always bullshit. It was invented by psychiatrists after the Vietnam War. Nobody else but Americans would invade another country, rape and murder the people there, and then claim the attackers they sent are now disabled and need sympathy and gibs. Of course this scam has caught on with every other responsibility dodger and it's definition has expanded to everything because it was made up, political bs in the first place.

You know Forced prostitution, rape, violance etc also leads to PTSD right? It is not exclusive to soldiers it is just that if you are in a certain type of proffession you are bound to be affected by the job condition. for like nearly all of the proffessions, less than 1 person out of ten-thousand has PTSD because because of their job. For an active army that rises to 40 percent and for prostitution i believe it is close to 70 percent. So no it is real. Maybe, like most of the "science" today the treatment and the condition itself should be approached skeptically but it exists.

 

[SpookyObserver]

Hot take but PTSD was always bullshit. It was invented by psychiatrists after the Vietnam War. Nobody else but Americans would invade another country, rape and murder the people there, and then claim the attackers they sent are now disabled and need sympathy and gibs. Of course this scam has caught on with every other responsibility dodger and it's definition has expanded to everything because it was made up, political bs in the first place.

Theres making theory and healthy skepticism and then theres being a retard faggot. 'Shellshock' isnt regional, just because you hate a more accurate term.

 

[melty]

My nigger in faggotry, your idea doesn’t even make sense. The first widespread reports of PTSD in the modern era were after WWI, though of course it went by another name.

You know Forced prostitution, rape, violance etc also leads to PTSD right? It is not exclusive to soldiers it is just that if you are in a certain type of proffession you are bound to be affected by the job condition. for like nearly all of the proffessions, less than 1 person out of ten-thousand has PTSD because because of their job. For an active army that rises to 40 percent and for prostitution i believe it is close to 70 percent. So no it is real. Maybe, like most of the "science" today the treatment and the condition itself should be approached skeptically but it exists.

Sure, there are real symptoms associated with trauma, but PTSD is a culture bound illness, like many others, such as trooning. It doesn't exist in all cultures. And it was only created as a diagnosis after the Vietnam War, again, for political reasons, by western psychologists.

 

[Coldsteel the Hedgehog]

Sure, there are real symptoms associated with trauma, but PTSD is a culture bound illness, like many others, such as trooning. It doesn't exist in all cultures. And it was only created as a diagnosis after the Vietnam War, again, for political reasons, by western psychologists.

This is the same retarded reasoning people used when they were saying helmets in WW1 and seatbelts were useless.

Yeah, no shit complication rates went up, it's because they're not fucking dying anymore or being sent to sanitariums for being hysterical.

 

[melty]

This is the same retarded reasoning people used when they were saying helmets in WW1 and seatbelts were useless.

Yeah, no shit complication rates went up, it's because they're not fucking dying anymore or being sent to sanitariums for being hysterical.

Look, you can look into it if you want. Look up the creation of the diagnosis after the Vietnam War. Look at which countries have the highest rates of ptsd and which don't. I think people should be a little more skeptical of western psychology. You know, the same people that are recommending sex changes to mentally ill and autistic children? Could they possibly have been wrong about other things, too? Could their entire framework for mental illness have some other faults? I always recommend this book as it's eye opening on a lot of this stuff.

 

[Zemblan Physics]

Sure, there are real symptoms associated with trauma, but PTSD is a culture bound illness, like many others, such as trooning. It doesn't exist in all cultures. And it was only created as a diagnosis after the Vietnam War, again, for political reasons, by western psychologists.

The article doesn’t support your claim, though. It recognizes that while the concept of PTSD as a unique psychiatric diagnosis with specific symptoms, as categorized in the DSM, is new, the impact of catastrophic events on the human psyche has been known since antiquity.

The problem with the PTSD diagnosis imo is the concept creep - now everything can be a trauma, even what happened to gramps before you were born (“intergenerational trauma”), and there’s a cottage industry of moron “trauma informed” bullshitters catering to narcs who can’t handle life.

Human resilience should not be underestimated- there are studies that show that less than a quarter of those experiencing actual trauma (terrorist attacks, assult etc) develop PTSD. But we’re not teaching kids resilience- we’re teaching them that they need to be coddled and affirmed in delusional thinking. I hate it.

ETA: a PTSD diagnosis can’t be made before three months have passed since the index event, btw. The trauma informed therapists seem to think about three minutes is enough.

 

[SpookyObserver]

Look, you can look into it if you want. Look up the creation of the diagnosis after the Vietnam War. Look at which countries have the highest rates of ptsd and which don't. I think people should be a little more skeptical of western psychology. You know, the same people that are recommending sex changes to mentally ill and autistic children? Could they possibly have been wrong about other things, too? Could their entire framework for mental illness have some other faults? I always recommend this book as it's eye opening on a lot of this stuff.

Maybe those countries dont care about it regardless of where those people end up. Why dont you name some of them? I'm sure they are culturally perfect.

 

[melty]

Maybe those countries dont care about it regardless of where those people end up. Why dont you name some of them? I'm sure they are culturally perfect.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201310/culture-ptsd-lessons-the-2004-tsunami

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/27/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-more-likely-to-affect-people-in-affluent-countries-scientists-say

 

[SpookyObserver]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201310/culture-ptsd-lessons-the-2004-tsunami

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/27/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-more-likely-to-affect-people-in-affluent-countries-scientists-say

This dude posted psychology today...

That guardian article isnt even saying what youre saying. You are still a retatd and im going back to waiting for tranny Ls

 

[Free the Pedos]

Look, you can look into it if you want. Look up the creation of the diagnosis after the Vietnam War.

Dr. Braxton Hicks described the practice contractions named after him in 1872, but presumably women have been having them for all of human history.

 

[Dawdler]

It's real. If you haven't experienced any significant traumatizing events in your life you should just thank your parents for it.

 

[Poppavalyim Andropoff]

I’d give OPs anus a stress disorder …

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

It's real.

Really? How would you verify or falsify that claim? How do you know that it isn't just made up?

 

[Justa Grata Honoria]

Really? How would you verify or falsify that claim? How do you know that it isn't just made up?

there were mri scans made on the brains of PTSD sufferers its fucking real. Their left brain shuts down specifically their speech area while the memory registering visual area lights up like a Christmas tree. The amygdala also works overtime. There has been even hormonal tests showing that they produce stress hormones 24/7 instead of just during stressfull event. Majority of the cases are complex Ptsd which means multiple traumas.

Source body keep the score book. It was written by a psychiatrists who started his practice in the 70s long before the cottage industry of MUH trauma started. Also generational trauma is a thing has been documented before the grifters came along.

 

[Meat Target]

And it was only created as a diagnosis after the Vietnam War,

That's what scientific progress is: gaining a better understanding of observed phenomena.

Maybe those countries dont care about it regardless of where those people end up. Why dont you name some of them? I'm sure they are culturally perfect.

Countries with higher rates have better healthcare systems to diagnose it. Those countries with lower rates "treat" it with booze and heroin.

OP is a sheltered faggot.

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

there were mri scans made on the brains of PTSD sufferers its fucking real.

That's what the troons claim about their womanly brains. That they are totally real and visible on MRI. It just smells like bullshit to me. Maybe I am just a jaded old heartless MF.

 

[melty]

Countries with higher rates have better healthcare systems to diagnose it. Those countries with lower rates "treat" it with booze and heroin.

Countries that experience natural disaster are descended on by a bevy of western psychologists looking to use them as guinea pigs. It's not just a matter of healthcare or not.

Here's an excerpt from "Crazy Like Us" that explains it:

The assumption that traumatic reactions exist outside and unaffected by culture was common among both individual trauma counselors and the relief organizations sponsoring them. Dr. Sebastian von Peter, from the Hospital of Neukölln in Berlin, took the time to read through all the advisory texts and manuals related to the treatment of trauma after the tsunami. Mostly written by teams of international mental health experts to help train relief workers and volunteers, these texts were produced by CARE, the Red Cross International, the World Health Organization (WHO), the Global Development Group, the National Center for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and the European Society for Traumatic Event Studies, among others. These organizations and agencies, he wrote, assume that “at root, people throughout the world are the same in their emotional experience and expressions.” Taken together, von Peter concluded, these manuals imply a universal metaphysic of emotional experience. In the face of horror, these manuals assume, all humans are fundamentally the same. Despite these certainties, there were signs early on after the tsunami of a cultural disconnect between the ideas surrounding the Western conception of PTSD and Sri Lankan beliefs. There was, for instance, a remarkable memo emailed just days after the disaster by faculty members from the University of Colombo in Sri Lanka. The professors acknowledged that “disaster zones attract ‘trauma’ and ‘counseling projects,’” but they pleaded with the arriving army of counselors not to reduce survivors’ experiences “to a question of mental trauma” and the survivors themselves to “psychological casualties.” They went on to make an argument that fundamentally undercut the certainty that Western ideas about trauma are universal. “A victim processes a traumatic event as a function of what it means,” they wrote. “This meaning is drawn from their society and culture and this shapes how they seek help and their expectation of recovery.” Trauma reactions aren’t automatic physiological reactions inside the brain, they suggested, but rather cultural communications. They have nuance and meaning that can be misinterpreted or overlooked unless observers have a deep understanding of the culture at hand. What was required before any organization could offer meaningful help, the professors wrote, was a deep understanding of “what the affected people were signaling by this distress.” In the days after the disaster, reporters and clinicians arriving from the United States and elsewhere sometimes seemed confused, even concerned, when the local population didn’t behave the way they’d expected. One trauma counselor being interviewed on BBC radio from a small coastal village expressed his worry that the local children appeared more interested in returning to school than discussing their experience of the tsunami. These children were “clearly in denial,” the expert told the listening audience. The host of the program concurred, saying, “Of course, everyone knows that children are the most vulnerable to trauma such as this.” The expert then confidently concluded that only later would the children “experience the full emotional horror of what has happened to them.” Similarly CNN reporters expressed their amazement when tens of thousands of Sri Lankans attempted to abandon their refugee camps just days after the disaster, preferring to go back to their devastated villages or depend on friends or family. A New York Times reporter wrote that it would be only “a matter of time” before the “wall of determination and denial, which has enabled so many to cope in the days immediately after the Dec. 26 tsunami disaster, begins to break down.” With so many counseling and trauma treatment programs and PTSD researchers arriving in the country every day, the situation on the ground soon turned chaotic. Shekhar Saxena, from the World Health Organization, was disturbed by the scene he saw in the days and weeks after the tsunami. “Two weeks after the tsunami there were hundreds of counselors doing nothing or getting in the way,” he told a reporter from Reuters. He pointed out that sending mental health workers who didn’t speak the local language or understand the culture was as useless as sending the wrong medicines. Dr. Mahesan Ganesan, who was the only psychiatrist in all of eastern Sri Lanka, desperately tried to keep track of the various organizations arriving to give psychological aid. For a few days he managed to keep a tally of the dozens of groups on a large whiteboard in his office, but he soon lost count. Looking back, it’s hard to escape the feeling that these various efforts had about them the energy and excitement of a gold rush. The tsunami was one of the most devastating natural disasters in recorded history, and everyone who wanted to demonstrate their acumen in healing trauma or perform large-scale studies of PTSD felt obligated to be on the scene. If a technique was to be taken seriously as a treatment for psychological trauma, its adherents had to be part of the action. Within days bitter rivalries broke out between counseling groups over which populations would receive which services. As one journalist documented, different support services attempted to “stake their claim to refugee camps.” The haggling between groups vying to help sometimes caused confusion and bad feelings among the survivors. One Sri Lankan health care worker described how children were lured away from one set of volunteer mental health care providers by other groups with toys and other incentives. “Children are torn between these loyalties, and it can be traumatic,” said T. Gadambanathan, a Sri Lankan psychiatrist from Trincomalee. Similarly Ganesan watched with a mixture of horror and fascination as several organizations offering counseling services to one camp fought among themselves for the attention of the children. “It was common for the [facilitators] to differentiate between ‘our’ children and ‘their’ children,” he reports. “At times children were asked not to play with children belonging to other groups. This often led to conflicts… and at times brought about animosity between the children themselves.” Ganesan noted a key difference between the aid groups offering medicine, food, and shelter and those offering trauma counseling. The groups focusing on basic material needs would immediately meet with local officials and families to try to assess what the community was lacking. Was shelter the first priority, or food, or first aid? In contrast, those setting up PTSD counseling services seldom asked leaders in the local community what they needed or desired in terms of help. Thinking back, Ganesan’s considered several possible reasons for this lack of consultation. Perhaps these traumatologists felt that the local community did not understand their own psychological needs, and therefore “getting their opinion would be a pointless waste of time.” More likely, he’s concluded, these trauma counselors shared the “idea that all persons would respond in a psychologically known manner to trauma and loss, and a particular universal method existed to help these people whoever they were and whatever their culture.” Such a belief would make consultation with the local population unnecessary. There were other problems. Translators had to be employed, as nearly none of the trauma counselors arriving from Western countries spoke the local languages. Given all the foreign activity in the country, the most proficient translators were in high demand. This meant that counselors often relied on those with marginal translation skills, such as local drivers who plied the tourist trade, to facilitate their therapy sessions. “At best [these translators] had very limited capacity to translate the very complicated and sensitive communication that takes place during a counseling session,” noted one local health worker. Despite such difficulties, the pace of counseling often rivaled the speed of an emergency room. Over two four-day periods in late January and February, one organization reported giving “psychotherapy and counseling” to 1,724 people, including 631 children. This was an impressive feat given that they had only two dozen counselors to do the work. Another group of Western counselors debriefed twenty-five traumatized survivors at a time, with the goal of one hundred treated for each five hours of work. The drug company Pfizer was quick to get in the mix as well. In early February 2005, just over a month after the disaster, the company sponsored a symposium in Bangkok titled “After the Tsunami: Mental Health Challenges to the Community for Today and Tomorrow.” Professor Davidson, quoted earlier predicting pathology rates of 50 to 90 percent, helped organize the conference with an “unrestricted grant” from the company.

That's what I was getting at with the psychology today article. Obviously, they aren't a reliable source, but this is a well documented event, and they aren't paywalled or in a physical book.

 

[MadStan]

I’ll debate it only with those who have been kidnapped and anally raped for a week.