CN DeepSeek buzz puts tech stocks on track for $1 trillion wipeout

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(Bloomberg) — Chinese artificial intelligence startup DeepSeek rocked global technology stocks Monday, raising questions over America’s technological dominance.

Buzz grew over the weekend about DeepSeek’s latest AI model being cost-effective while running on less-advanced chips, casting doubt on the validity of the rich valuations for companies like Nvidia Corp. (NVDA), which has led the global AI stock boom as its chips have been seen as essential to the technology. Shares of the Santa Clara, California-based firm slid 10% in premarket trading on Monday.

Nasdaq 100 futures tumbled 3.4%, while contracts on the S&P 500 fell 2% as of 5 a.m. in New York. In Europe, tech stocks led market losses, with shares of chip equipment maker ASML Holding NV down 11%. The Cboe Volatility Index, known as the VIX, spiked higher. The Nasdaq 100 and Europe’s Stoxx 600 technology sub-index were together set for a market capitalization wipeout of roughly $1 trillion, if the losses hold.

“DeepSeek shows that it is possible to develop powerful AI models that cost less,” said Vey-Sern Ling, managing director at Union Bancaire Privee. “It can potentially derail the investment case for the entire AI supply chain, which is driven by high spending from a small handful of hyperscalers.”

Roughly 200,000 Nasdaq 100 futures contracts changed hands by 4:45 a.m. New York time, about four times more than the 30-day average for this time of day, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The AI model from DeepSeek — founded by quant fund chief Liang Wenfeng — is widely seen as competitive with OpenAI and Meta Platforms Inc.’s latest offerings. Lauded by investor Marc Andreessen as “one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs,” DeepSeek’s app shows its work and reasoning as it addresses a user’s written query or prompt. Released last week, the product is now at the top of Apple Inc.’s App Store rankings, with users praising its transparency.

Chinese AI-related stocks reacted positively, with mainland-listed Merit Interactive Co. among those surging by their daily limits. Merit is among those with the clearest links to DeepSeek after stating in an earlier filing that it had incorporated the homegrown AI firm’s model into marketing. In Hong Kong, the Hang Seng Tech Index climbed as much as 2% ahead of Lunar New Year holidays this week.

AI trades slumped elsewhere as investors rethought assumptions on computing power and energy. Siemens Energy AG, one of the few AI winners in Europe, slid 20%.

The DeepSeek product “is deeply problematic for the thesis that the significant capital expenditure and operating expenses that Silicon Valley has incurred is the most appropriate way to approach the AI trend,’ said Nirgunan Tiruchelvam, head of consumer and internet at Singapore-based Aletheia Capital. “It calls into question the massive resources that have been dedicated to AI.”

The decline in Nasdaq futures (NQ=F) comes at the start of a big week for earnings from major tech companies including Apple (AAPL) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) Profit growth is expected to have slowed while valuations remain inflated, once again causing concern over the large AI-driven rally in the sector.

The Nasdaq 100 is trading at 27 times estimated forward earnings, compared with its three-year average of 24 times. Nvidia is at 33 times, though that’s slightly down from its three-year average.

The DeepSeek release raises new doubts, challenging the notion that China’s AI technology is years behind US counterparts. Washington’s trade restrictions had kept the most cutting-edge chips out of China’s hands, but DeepSeek’s model was built using open source technology that is easy to access.

“While current leaders like Nvidia have a strong foothold, it is a reminder that AI dominance cannot be taken for granted,” said Charu Chanana, chief investment strategist at Saxo Markets. “The emergence of China’s DeepSeek indicates that competition is intensifying, and although it may not pose a significant threat now, future competitors will evolve faster and challenge the established companies more quickly. Earnings this week will be a huge test.”

—With assistance from Audrey Wan, Vlad Savov, Newley Purnell, Henry Ren and Michael Msika.

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Abhishek Vishnoi

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Why does anyone just believe claims from the Chinese in regards to tech? They have no oversight or independent evaluation and have been shown to outright lie about their “advanced” technology so many times it’s a running joke.

The timing is especially suspicious since Trump announced major investment in this area. It’s like everyone forgets that the Chinese make claims like this constantly.
 
Why does anyone just believe claims from the Chinese in regards to tech? They have no oversight or independent evaluation and have been shown to outright lie about their “advanced” technology so many times it’s a running joke.

The timing is especially suspicious since Trump announced major investment in this area. It’s like everyone forgets that the Chinese make claims like this constantly.
There may be lies about the model's production methods, but as for performance, the proof is in the pudding, the weights are available for anyone to grab and run locally if they have the hardware.

People much cleverer than me re:LLMs may already have a good idea of how plausible DeepSeek's production story is, but I'm waiting for the empirical proof of some Western company taking DeepSeek's purported training performance as a target and approximating it. If we can do that then I'll start taking the DeepSeek crew as geniuses.
 
The AI bubble was already gonna burst at some point, it was just our latest iteration of the .com bubble, the telecom bubble, the "smart" and VR device bubble, etc etc etc as devotees to "line go up" thinking, once again, assume 'tech' to be immune to market saturation.
 
US corporations can't handle competition if their turf is threatened and their only effective strategy is regulatory capture and lobbying. This is good news for the average consumer, OpenAI and friends don't want you to be able to run faster, leaner models locally on your PCs, this is more good progress in that territory.
Isn’t most of the stock market tied up in these tech stocks?
32% of SP500 is tech stocks. Nvidia is about 6% of its entirety alone. It's normal for a certain sector to overperform, it's happened before (energy stocks, financials), just not this much.
 
Has it occurred to you that the people that you know have lied to you for your entire life about everything else might also have lied to you about the Chinese?
You don't have to rely on photos of artillery you'll never touch in your lifetime to develop this opinion. If it's not a cheap knock-off of some existing firearm that will survive 1/4 the rounds of the real thing, it's some Norinco "original idea" with a faulty gas piston. Or grips so fat that you can't actually use the gun.
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Why does anyone just believe claims from the Chinese in regards to tech? They have no oversight or independent evaluation and have been shown to outright lie about their “advanced” technology so many times it’s a running joke.

The timing is especially suspicious since Trump announced major investment in this area. It’s like everyone forgets that the Chinese make claims like this constantly.
because they gave it away freely and explained exactly how it was done...

basically its exactly like open AI's mixture of expert slop, but it has some tweaks to how the experts are connected and trained, and this ends up making the model cheaper to train by an order of magnitude; frankly I didnt bother to try to understand why it converged so much faster since I have 0 interest in mixture of expert architectures, but the thing is real, its pretty good, it cost 1/10th what open AI spends to train theirs, and its free, you can just have the model if you really want.

Fuck OpenAI, fuck the investors, hope they all burn to the ground so they can make room for people actually pushing the ball forward on this shit.
 
They're probably lying about the cost because they don't want to admit that they have a bunch of GPUs that they're not supposed to have because of export control laws.

Not supposed to have...according to who? Why would they care, and what can anybody do about it anyway?
 
I think deepseek is being used as a bit of a scapegoat here. Sure, it does do the same thing for less, but let's be honest here, the LLM valuation was heading for a correction. Deepseek does highlight why a correction was needed. The investor money made the answer to staying relevant in the market being resolved by increasing compute ability - when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Deepseek just helped them come to that realization faster.
It is kinda funny though, I've seen some wumaos on xitter claiming that deepseek was created using Chinese silicon because "Nvidia's silicon is banned in China". Yeah, I'm sure the 32nm Xilong "Great Leap Forward" 6389 (which is just a stolen Bulldozer design) was DEFINITELY what this was running on. Maybe the cope is that Taiwan belongs to China so the silicon that they acquired via back channels is technically Chinese?
 
Has it occurred to you that the people that you know have lied to you for your entire life about everything else might also have lied to you about the Chinese?
No.

There is a NOVA episode where they attempt to recreate an ancient Chinese bridge.

The piers are supposed to be 3 layers of stone blocks that are L shapped so they key together and act as one single piece.

The Chinese absolutely do not understand this and don't want to make the L piece so the entire horizontal force of the bridge would only be on the top layer of stone.
 
Why does anyone just believe claims from the Chinese in regards to tech? They have no oversight or independent evaluation and have been shown to outright lie about their “advanced” technology so many times it’s a running joke.

The timing is especially suspicious since Trump announced major investment in this area. It’s like everyone forgets that the Chinese make claims like this constantly.
Thank you! Investors are retarded for even wanting to invest in China. Mainly because its a centralized managed economy. Meaning the CCP can just make money out of thin air and say things are good while the 3 Gorges Dam is flooding everything in its path.
 
  • Agree
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