Opinion Deplatforming hate forums doesn't work, British boffins warn - Industry intervention alone can't deal with harassment


Depriving online hate groups of network services - otherwise known as deplatforming - doesn't work very well, according to boffins based in the United Kingdom.

In a recently released preprint paper, Anh Vu, Alice Hutchings, and Ross Anderson, from the University of Cambridge and the University of Edinburgh, examine efforts to disrupt harassment forum Kiwi Farms and find that community and industry interventions have been largely ineffective.

Their study, undertaken as lawmakers around the world are considering policies that aspire to moderate unlawful or undesirable online behavior, reveals that deplatforming has only a modest impact and those running harmful sites remain free to carry on harassing people through other services.

"Deplatforming users may reduce activity and toxicity levels of relevant actors on Twitter and Reddit, limit the spread of conspiratorial disinformation on Facebook, and minimize disinformation and extreme speech on YouTube," they write in their paper. "But deplatforming has often made hate groups and individuals even more extreme, toxic and radicalized."

As examples, they cite how Reddit's ban of r/incels in November 2017 led to the creation of two incel domains, which then grew rapidly. They also point to how users banned from Twitter and Reddit "exhibit higher levels of toxicity when migrating to Gab," among other similar situations.

The researchers focus on the deplatforming of Kiwi Farms, an online forum where users participate in efforts to harass prominent online figures. One such person was a Canadian transgender streamer known as @Keffals on Twitter and Twitch.

In early August last year, a Kiwi Farms forum member allegedly sent a malicious warning to police in London, Ontario, claiming that @Keffals had committed murder and was planning further violence, which resulted in her being "swatted - a form of attack that has proved lethal in some cases.

Following further doxxing, threats, and harassment, @Keffals organized a successful campaign to pressure Cloudflare to stop providing Kiwi Farms with reverse proxy security protection, which helped the forum defend against denial-of-service attacks.

The research paper outlines the various interventions taken by internet companies against Kiwi Farms. After Cloudflare dropped Kiwi Farms on September 3 last year, DDoS-Guard did so two days later. The following day, the Internet Archive and hCaptcha severed ties.

On September 10, the kiwifarms.is domain stopped working. Five days later, security firm DiamWall suspended service for those operating the site.

On September 18, all the domains used by the forum became inaccessible, possibly related to an alleged data breach. But then, as the researchers observe, the Kiwi Farms dark web forum was back by September 29. There were further intermittent outages on October 9 and October 22, but since then Kiwi Farms has been active, apart from brief service interruptions.

"The disruption was more effective than previous DDoS attacks on the forum, as observed from our datasets. Yet the impact, although considerable, was short-lived." the researchers state.

"While part of the activity was shifted to Telegram, half of the core members returned quickly after the forum recovered. And while most casual users were shaken off, others turned up to replace them. Cutting forum activity and users by half might be a success if the goal of the campaign is just to hurt the forum, but if the objective was to 'drop the forum,' it has failed."

Hate is difficult to shift

One reason for the durability of such sites, the authors suggest, is that activists get bored and move on, while trolls are motivated to endure and survive. They argue that deplatforming doesn't look like a long-term solution because, while casual harassment forum participants may scatter, core members become more determined and can recruit replacements through the publicity arising from censorship.

Vu, Hutchings, and Anderson argue that deplatforming by itself is insufficient and needs to be done in the context of a legal regime that can enforce compliance. Unfortunately, they note, this framework doesn't currently exist.

"We believe the harms and threats associated with online hate communities may justify action despite the right to free speech," the authors conclude. "But within the framework of the EU and the Council of Europe which is based on the European Convention on Human Rights, such action will have to be justified as proportionate, necessary and in accordance with the law."

They also contend that police work needs to be paired with social work, specifically education and psycho-social support, to deprogram hate among participants in such forums.

"There are multiple research programs and field experiments on effective ways to detox young men from misogynistic attitudes, whether in youth clubs and other small groups, at the scale of schools, or even by gamifying the identification of propaganda that promotes hate," they argue. "But most countries still lack a unifying strategy for violence reduction." ®
 
Don't let the fancy academic words and "think of the children" rhetoric lull you into a sense of safety.

These people want you silenced, jailed or dead doesn't matter to them. Dead is probably preferable but they want you gone at any cost.

They've gone the full "othering" route now. We are not people "like them". We're evil, irredeemable scum who "someone" really should "deal" with.

Notice all the air quotes? Yah because slime like these types will never outright say what they really intend. They just used fancy, flowery words to paint a certain picture and let their audience connect the dots for themselves.

"We just stated that these people do bad things to good people and the law can't stop them. We never said that good people should take action to stop them! Oh no never that! The DDOS attacks and blackmail attempts were never our choices"

No you classless faggots, you just cheered on every crime against the forums since it's "no bad tactics only bad targets" with your type of honorless, scummy, opportunists.

Typical propaganda tactics. Keep that deniability going in case it backfires but get the message across. "These are bad people and they need to go away if us good people are to be ever safe!" "Gee it really would be a shame if some good person took the time to make sure this Moon person never harmed anyone ever again".

"Oh no we never intended for some hero person to hurt Joshua Moon, we never called for violence!! On no we did not! But this is what happens to bad people so can we really blame someone for stepping up to end the problem?"

Fuck Goebbels would be proud.
 
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>is that activists get bored and move on, while trolls are motivated to endure and survive.
Lmao is this retard serious? The life of today's activist is completely consumed by disrupting society, burning down neighborhoods and grooming.
Meanwhile, as an evil toxified internet troll, I shitpost until I'm bored then get on with my day.
The classic lolcow mistake of assuming the amount of effort we extend is directly proportional to intensity of his feelings about the matter. No, my dude, you're getting assblasted about stuff we posted over our lunch break.

This is definitely true for me. I no longer engage with anything that might force such speech in real life. I am very careful who I talk to. I’ve also become determined to red pill as many as I can. It’s amazing how being a polite person, and having a ‘forbidden’ view gets people admitting g they feel the same.
There’s a huge number of people who have internalised, and the moment they are able to, they will say what they think. A significant number of those people have been harmed by this censorious repression ( speaking out over covid, me-tooed for smiling at the office temp, sacked for saying humans can’t change sex) and a significant number of those people will want revenge. Previously they’d have been held back by social convention, but all that’s gone now.
Agreed. I've noticed there are some people out there who seem to be convinced that the masses really did believe a lot of this stuff (particularly in regards to transsexualism) and are only now "waking up".

I don't think that's the case at all. I honestly believe that most people never fully agreed with it, they just didn't go out of their way to voice their true opinion, either out of politeness or trying to avoid stepping on a landmine. They aren't waking up, they're getting compassion fatigued as hell and the flood gates are beginning to open.

Do you think they will have the decency to seperate us by topic boards so we have something to talk about?
I hope so, because it would be hilarious watching the poor bastards who get stuck trying to wrangle the A&N posters.
 
I will stop hating when all the niggers are gone and the bikes are returned to their rightful owners.
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I guess I'll see you all at deprogramming camp.
I hear on Tuesday's they serve sloppy joe's in the mess hall.
I hope we get to use the canoes on the lake tomorrow.

Kiwi camp 5ever!
See, If I made us a cool place in the woods to play the GOVERNMENT hates it. If the GOVERNMENT does it it's fine though. Fucking double standards.
 
Well, I for one would love to be deprogrammed.

Imagine knowing it's a good thing that a woman in the changing rooms showed your daughter what a penis and balls look like.

Imagine only having to be outraged once every few months at interracial violence instead of every day.

Imagine being able to rejoice in the fact that the media, academia, government, private companies and bankers are fighting against the system.

Imagine being glad your taxes pay for rainbow bombs to drop on Arabs.

Imagine being an environmentalist who celebrates mass immigration and population expansion.

Imagine cheering for celebrities who stick it to the 1%.

Book me in.
 
It seems two out of the three authors are following the Workshop on Attackers and Cyber-Crime Operations' (WAACO) Twitter account ( Archive ). Checking its website ( Archive ), it appears Hutchings is one of its co-chairs. What's interesting is that source anonymisation is required, and failure to do so can result in a desk rejection:
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I am much nearer the end of my life on this plane of existence than I am at the beginning, and I have two regrets.

One regret is I did not discover KF before I did; it has been a breath of fresh air in a world where conversation has grow increasingly stilted and shallow.
My second regret is that I most probably will not be here to see what comes after Sneed's Feed and Seed.
Carry on, young whippersnappers, I like your spunk. o7
 
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Eurofaggots want to put political dissidents in "social work" camps to (((deprogram))) them.

In other news, water is wet.

If you live in Europe you need to get the fuck out ASAP, this article is yet more proof that they are coming for you and you will be forced at gunpoint to be a progressive. If all of the other hyper-authoritarian gestapo shit didn't convince you, this should.
Thankfully we defeated those evil Nazis and the bad funny mustache man so Europe can be free.
 
Youth clubs and schools?

I'm 35 with a wife and a kid on the way. There are bonafide Boomers who post on this site.
Boy won't they be surprised when they show up at Uncle Joe's house. Guy spent more time in the Chair Force than a lot of us Kiwis have spent shitposting.
Well, today I learned what "boffin" means and I laughed. Was it worth sounding ridiculous when you could have just said "researcher" or "expert"? The Queen's English™ is for clowns.
King's English. Its time to move on, I'm afraid.
This is significant since it is the longest outage the Farms has had other than the voluntary 2017 downtime, and it was the result of a highly illegal (but of course unprosecuted) action. The authors don't mention this at all amidst their policy discussions and recommendations, so it appears that their research simply failed them.
What research?
Typically it's from engurlund so if Josh covers it on mati, we will hear about how much he hates Anglos.
All sane people hate the Eternal Anglo.
I refuse to believe that spending enough time in the stinkditch, voluntarily or involuntarily, won't turn even the most hardline lgbtqiapp+ ally into a transphobe.

It's would be like holding your arm above a fireplace without getting burned. It doesn't matter how resistant you are, hold it long enough and eventually it will catch fire.
Didn't we pull that off with an actual tranny? I mean they're still a tranny faggot (some things are unfortunately incurable without applying lead and/or fire) but they're willing to stand up against grooming and sex pests.
Cotton Hill got his legs blown off by a Tojo machine gun after he killed fiddy men. What's this guy's excuse?
Hate speech is violence, don't you know.
"Them damn Kiwis blew my shins off by calling me a slant-eyed gook. Doctors had to sew my ankles right to my knees."
I wouldn't mind meeting Dyn IRL. I think it would be fascinating to meet an Abo that doesn't just drink, rape, and fling feces at other people.
Oh, I'm sure he drinks and rapes, but he makes sure to save his shit-flinging for us Kiwis.
 
harassing people through other services.
Funny how these articles never ever mention the kind of "people" we "harass" here, and I use quotes in the last one because what we mostly do is simply document the awful shit they already do in public, it just happens that now its all in one place instead of all over.

Really harassment its what you see on twitter and reddit when they actually call for the death of people, get them fired and threaten their relatives and friends.

Also observe how nowhere in the article is any information about who keffals is (again, "people") and what his actions are, because even most of their incredibly left-prone readership would find his actions horrifying.
"But deplatforming has often made hate groups and individuals even more extreme, toxic and radicalized."
You would think they would have learned that from gamergate but nope, every lesson from that shitstormhurricane has been completely forgotten.
 
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Why are the british so fucking dumb?
Over a millennium of sowing the fields and stuffing Davy Jones' Locker with the British best and brightest, specially with the past three centuries. Plus many of surviving best and brightest fucking off to anywhere not under the direct control of the crown or none at all. Leaving the inbreed worst of the worse to continually populate the echelons of British aristocracy.
 
Fix my lying eyes with brainwashing.

Actually from the end of the article it's clear they think we are all basement dwelling, teenage incel edgelords.
Probably late since I haven't read all 15 pages but I’ve been an El Reg loyalist since the late 90s. Simon/BOFH was still new, it was only register.co.uk, etc. funny to see that their intentionally irreverent take to tech is starting to shift.
 
he was a no-talent addict loser in every facet of life and possible murderer.
Not a problem for this people, in fact they'll argue you're victimizing him.
Come on, it's a grift
Of course, most NGOs are grifts full of highly paid grifters making shit up to justify their jobs.

Ask any jew what they think of the adl constantly pestering them for money.
Instead it's the usual "we're not going far enough, round up the nazi chuds now!".
I'm sure there will be no consequences for them as all these individuals live in bunkers with 24/7 armed security and are totally not oblivious idiots walking around without any means of self-defense.
They are going to shit themselves when they find out 99.9% of the incels are in their 20's and 30's.
Being an incel in your teens is taking "I give up" to a new absurd level.

Even in your 20's I'll argue you're giving up too soon.
Imagine three people having Ph.D's and spending hundreds of hours collectively
They don't do shit, social science its the lazy know-it-all's paradise, they just regurgitate the same shit over and over, make whatever shit the establishment wants up so they can get a grant.
 
They want to put us in camps? I hope they round up Null too. He can do his podcast live for us every week.
"Twinkletard for 3 slices of bread and a cup of coffee says 'TND'. Thank you Twinkletard. Inmate #6483 for 20 raisins says 'You should check Legend of the Galactic Heroes out of the camp library'-- no, I told you, no anime! My rate is 10000 dollars an hour!"
 
Despite being a chubbo, Null has unironically traveled more places than most Americans, shown he actually stands for what he believes in, and is a pigeon godfather.
I think the “You live at your parents house/ basement” isn’t really an insult like it was back when boomers bought cheap houses. Living with your parents in your twenties is very common now and a smart thing to do if you want to pay off debt/ save money.

Null is probably one of the few “social media” experts worth a damn. I’d really like him to talk about what he’s learned over the years in depth because it’s interesting to hear him discuss it on MATI.
I’d really like Josh to write more articles on being a webmaster, web communities he is frustrated with, and the fight to keep the forum alive.
 
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