Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

[SpiderBitch]

and when they do the men are usually portrayed as being incredibly Goofy and directionless.

I feel like tangled struck gold with this one where the love interest was a near perfect mix of funny guy having goofy things happen to him who occasionally needs rescuing from the heroine (her superpowers), and competent cool guy who saves the day and is proactive, and then they just immediately ditched it.

If tangled was made in current year it would end with rapunzel killing mother gothel herself (tho killing is too edgy so maybe just defeating her and throwing her in jail) and then also rescuing flynn rather than all the men she helped on her journey banding together to save her

 

[Crybaby Xianghua]

I feel like tangled struck gold with this one where the love interest was a near perfect mix of funny guy having goofy things happen to him who occasionally needs rescuing from the heroine (her superpowers), and competent cool guy who saves the day and is proactive, and then they just immediately ditched it.

If tangled was made in current year it would end with rapunzel killing mother gothel herself (tho killing is too edgy so maybe just defeating her and throwing her in jail) and then also rescuing flynn rather than all the men she helped on her journey banding together to save her

Or even worse, Rapunzel would go all Steven Universe, MLP, or Care Bears on Mother Gothel, and redeem her, thus, both heroes and villains get a happily ever after.

Good lord, that would be so saccharine, that everyone would be vomiting up marshmallow fluff upon viewing. But thank goodness Tangled came out before the Tumblr generation take over. So that is at least something to be thankful over.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

late, since the Little Coonaid already came out, but this was too funny:

 

[X-avier cuck]

I actually saw a really good vid by the Broadway YouTuber MickeyJoTheather and he gave a really good synopsis on what the issues are with Wish 's music.

Disney's Broadway musicals have always been reflective of the time ( in the '80s the big musicals were things like into the woods, Sweety Todd, Les Miserables, etc) and you really see a lot of that in the Disney Renaissance especially in things like Hunchback.

When Frozen came out the biggest thing was Wicked ( even higher the actress behind the witch to play Elsa) and you really can tell they were trying to eat defying gravity with let it Go.

The biggest musical of the decade has been and still is Hamilton (hasn't been toppled yet) a lot of the Broadway style stuff is going to sound like it or other contemporary musicals like Hadestown.

I say all this above to suggest that instead of throwing those two in the dumpster fire that was The Little mermaid remake, they probably should have had lin-manuel Miranda and Alan menken work on this to really reflect both eras of Disney.

Would have been infinitely better than what we got with Julieta Michaels, and that other guy.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

King Candy was perhaps the best way to write a selfish, false ruler even though he was a twist villain (kinda, in hindsight, there was enough foreshadowing)

The twist was not that King Candy secretly was the villain (he was always the villain from the moment he first appears on screen). The actual twist was that King Candy was secretly Turbo the whole time.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

When Frozen came out the biggest thing was Wicked ( even higher the actress behind the witch to play Elsa) and you really can tell they were trying to eat defying gravity with let it Go.

Definitely, plus I think it was YMS who pointed out that Let It Go's chorus has the exact same chord progression as Katy Perry's Firework.

The pop-ification of Disney soundtracks started a long time ago. Remember that Elton John wrote the songs for Lion King, and IIRC his version of "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" got pretty heavy radio play.

The biggest musical of the decade has been and still is Hamilton (hasn't been toppled yet) a lot of the Broadway style stuff is going to sound like it or other contemporary musicals like Hadestown.

Christ, I would love it if Disney took a page from Hadestown. Anaïs Mitchell would have been an awesome choice, much better than some glossy LA nepo baby pop singer.

 

[X-avier cuck]

Definitely, plus I think it was YMS who pointed out that Let It Go's chorus has the exact same chord progression as Katy Perry's Firework.

The pop-ification of Disney soundtracks started a long time ago. Remember that Elton John wrote the songs for Lion King, and IIRC his version of "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" got pretty heavy radio play.


Christ, I would love it if Disney took a page from Hadestown. Anaïs Mitchell would have been an awesome choice, much better than some glossy LA nepo baby pop singer.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2pxbyf_tgE

Actually, isn't that musical basically what wish was trying to go for anyways?

King could have easily have been like Hades and Asha and the star were meant to be lovers in the original script.

I think having the Stars sacrifice itself indefinitely to save Asha would have been a lot more interesting than that weird Sing-Off they did at the end.

Yes, The royals are defeated but the main character actually learned a lesson because she more or less wasted this star's life without actually considering how it may have felt about her in the end.

 

[Wodanaz]

I feel like a retard because I can't remember, but I seem to recall a very recent public earnings paper by some company like Disney, wherein they admitted that pandering to diversity ESG nonsense was lowering their revenue because general audiences were hostile to it. Did I imagine that, or am I thinking of a different company?

 

[Safir]

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

Generally, I like plots in which a hero[ine]'s problems are external and intractable.

I really only like Aladdin, so much I can watch it back to back three times. The leads are aspirationally attractive and not embarrassingly stupid (Jasmine is ignorant but she doesn't even learn fast (as she says), her ignorance simply never again matters). Jafar's idiocy as he burns through his wishes is carefully handled and I don't have to feel sorry for him. All the songs are bangers. It's got actual tension, conflict, and a sense of place (no one's randomly travelling and "encountering" shit). Many Disney movies have cringy moralfaggotry; Aladdin doesn't (for all the "bee yourself" talk, his marriage to Jasmine and the happiness of both of them depend on him pretending to be a prince). No troo wuv's quiche either. The only thing I don't like is the stupid weepy bit in the end that stretches long enought to put both gaping plot holes into focus.

Frozen is fucking stupid and I can't stand the soy samefaces.

I don't regret watching Coco but don't like the characters and don't remember a single song from it. At least the skeleton facial anatomy makes the soyfaces not as prominent.

Hunchback has decent songs but the plot and motivations are a mess.

Cinderella has the hidden small world setting and Cindy's awesome dress. From wikipedia:

Walt Disney referred to Cinderella's dress transformation, animated by Marc Davis, as his most favorite piece of animation.

Too bad it settles into baby blue, I wish it'd sparkle throughout the movie.

when they do the men are usually portrayed as being incredibly Goofy and directionless.

This.

I feel like tangled struck gold with this one where the love interest was a near perfect mix of funny guy having goofy things happen to him who occasionally needs rescuing from the heroine (her superpowers), and competent cool guy who saves the day and is proactive, and then they just immediately ditched it.

I think he could stand to be cooler. Aladdin is gold.

Or even worse, Rapunzel would go all Steven Universe, MLP, or Care Bears on Mother Gothel, and redeem her, thus, both heroes and villains get a happily ever after.

Good lord, that would be so saccharine, that everyone would be vomiting up marshmallow fluff upon viewing. But thank goodness Tangled came out before the Tumblr generation take over. So that is at least something to be thankful over.

This hasn't been a real trend and it's telling that you have to bring up Care fucking Bears to make it seem like it is.

Fortunately I haven't seen either Steven Universe or ponies and only know the former from E;R's videos. But making peace with an alien civilization is an ancient plot, and it's in fact "we could've had avoided so many tragic deaths if not for [tiny contrivance]" is an equally ancient plot tweest. That basic plot has been blown into a pretend-trend by Trumpmad libs who think descendants of Confederates should be exterminated..

The mouse, in contrast, likes killing its villains in contrived ways to make the hero[es] avoid responsibility, exactly because the mouse can't do redemption. I fucking hate this trope and I wish whoever came up with it dies from AIDS (but he probably already did). Have the courage and conviction to let the hero do what he intends to!
The heroes then proceed to celebrate and (if opposite-sexed) kiss (because muh runtime) while the corpse is still warm. What the fuck mah dood? If you actually wanted the villain to die, celebrate responsibly! -- otherwise at least try to pretend to be sad at this senseless loss of life or something. It's gotten so bad that other, supposedly serious movies insert parodies on Disney deaths to show how serious and brutal they are, even though in such merciless universes subversible fakeout mercy wouldn't exist as a concept in the first place.

It's true that redemption is also soy and a movie doesn't have the runtime for it. But they can have a villain just fucking lose, like the evil stepmother in Cindy or the plagiarizer in Coco. (Again, Aladdin shines here, Jafar's fate is epic but not gruesome, it''s what happened to Genie and he's ok.) Two other examples (apparently, didn't see either) are Big Hero 6 (capeshit) and Zoophilia (nonhuman). Or, they can have a cool villain who fucks up and helps the heroes fix it, then fucks off (maybe to plot revenge in the sequel). But the mouse thirsts for blood.

 

[Coo Coo Bird]

I also learned Brenda Chapman and Roger Allers were working on a Tam Lin adaptation, which I would have loved.

I'm surprised Tam Lin doesn't get adapted more. Stick to the prose version, you have a wholesome story about a girl saving her boyfriend from a curse. Stick to the ballad version, you have a bodice-ripper fairy tale.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/11/30/marvel-comics-retcons-nightcrawlers-origins-reveals-x-men-teleporter-as-biological-son-of-lesbian-mutants-mystique-and-destiny/

https://archive.ph/wip/9V8gl

the story broke containment & that's why i writing about it.

can't wait for them to return Clossos gay again.

Thing is, this was Chris Claremont's original idea for Nightcrawler's origin, but editorial vetoed it on grounds that it was weird and perverted. Then, years later, they had Chuck Austen reveal his father was a literal demon from hell for a stupid "Nightcrawler becomes the pope and somehow that causes the Rapture!" plot.

I can understand them retconning it, but why go for Claremont's idea? Even his fans admit he's a pervert who needs an editor to keep him in line.

 

[Terrifik]

I'm surprised Tam Lin doesn't get adapted more. Stick to the prose version, you have a wholesome story about a girl saving her boyfriend from a curse. Stick to the ballad version, you have a bodice-ripper fairy tale.

Thing is, this was Chris Claremont's original idea for Nightcrawler's origin, but editorial vetoed it on grounds that it was weird and perverted. Then, years later, they had Chuck Austen reveal his father was a literal demon from hell for a stupid "Nightcrawler becomes the pope and somehow that causes the Rapture!" plot.

I can understand them retconning it, but why go for Claremont's idea? Even his fans admit he's a pervert who needs an editor to keep him in line.

Because it's 2023 & gloves are off they can do whatever they want & lore be dammed.
It's a sinking industry for mainstream comics.

 

[RX-78]

I can understand them retconning it, but why go for Claremont's idea? Even his fans admit he's a pervert who needs an editor to keep him in line.

I'm way out of the loop on how fucking weird the capeshit writers of yesteryear were, would you mind spilling more dirt on how this industry was always infested with lunatics?

 

[ShitLurker]

Thing is, this was Chris Claremont's original idea for Nightcrawler's origin, but editorial vetoed it on grounds that it was weird and perverted

... wait what?!

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Because it's 2023 & gloves are off they can do whatever they want & lore be dammed.
It's a sinking industry for mainstream comics.

And goodness knows a Catholic mutant with an unnatural appearance who owns it and refuses to let it define him must be outraging their remaining audience.
Though given how long it is by now that I read the up to date stuff I assume he's identifying as an atheist.

 

[Michael Wade]

And goodness knows a Catholic mutant with an unnatural appearance who owns it and refuses to let it define him must be outraging their remaining audience.
Though given how long it is by now that I read the up to date stuff I assume he's identifying as an atheist.

I think they had some bullshit bout him dying coming back and becoming atheist because he didn't see anything or some bullshit. Id be very surprised if they kept him as religious.

 

[X-avier cuck]

I feel like a retard because I can't remember, but I seem to recall a very recent public earnings paper by some company like Disney, wherein they admitted that pandering to diversity ESG nonsense was lowering their revenue because general audiences were hostile to it. Did I imagine that, or am I thinking of a different company?

Bob iger recently said that.

I also find it kind of humorous that wish has basically become the new Velma.

Literally every commentator on YouTube has spoken negatively about it and almost all of them have made the same comparisons.

I also recently read an article from variety about how Michael's intended for the songs to be played even outside of the film which is why they sound so Poppy.

There's literally a song that sounds like a love duet between the king and Asha

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

The last time I enjoyed watching a Disney film was.... maybe 2016's The Finest Hours. It was a film about a famous Coast Guard rescue op from the early 1950s.

 

[Coo Coo Bird]

I'm way out of the loop on how fucking weird the capeshit writers of yesteryear were, would you mind spilling more dirt on how this industry was always infested with lunatics?

Chris Claremont made it really obvious that he had fetishes for corruption, mind control, and bondage.

He also liked making everyone bi, which gets him points with SJWs...but he also had a thing for racebending, like Psylocke being turned from British to Asian, or two side characters in New Mutants being Cherokeefied. He also likes making trolling statements like this:

Link
As for other rejected ideas he had? The X-Men villain Mister Sinister would have turned out to be the alter-ego of a psychic child.

When Chris Claremont first introduced Mr. Sinister, the idea was that the character we knew as Mr. Sinister was actually a product of the mutant mind of a child. A child who could never age. Essentially, a twisted version of the relationship between Billy Batson and Captain Marvel.

Claremont first mainly laid these plans out in the pages of Classic X-Men, where he featured stories of Scott Summers' upbringing as an orphan in an orphanage. There there was a boy who was fascinated with Scott, and whatever the boy wanted to have happen, suddenly Mr. Sinister would show up and do what the boy wanted to have happen.

The reveal would be that the boy WAS Mr. Sinister - which is why the name is so dorky - as this villain would be the product of the mind of a child.

The only problem is, this child would never grow up, leaving Mr. Sinister to become more and more his public persona.

Ultimately, though, after Claremont was no longer writing X-Men, later writers completely changed this plot point. The stories from the orphanage are now meant to be Mr. Sinister in disguise as a young boy.

Link
I actually think it's a pretty interesting concept for a villain. But he also planned for Gambit to be another Mister Sinister alter ego...

In the Gambit issue of the Classic Marvel Figurine Collection:, Chris Claremont explained Gambit's origins. He was tied in with Sinister's original origin of being a perpetual little kid who then created a "villain" character, Mister SInister, to serve as his proxy. So he, in turn, created a "hero" proxy, as well...

The nameless villain's solution, explained Claremont - who stressed that this was his original concept for the Cajun mutant - was to grow an older version of himself... namely Gambit.
As originally concieved, Gambit was a bad guy. "He was supposed to come in, meet Rogue, Rogue was supposed to fall in love with him, the act of falling in love develops a humanity in him that seperates him out from Sinister or rather Sinister's human half. So in a sense, we have a love triangle between a now 60-year old mind in an 11-year-old body, the young Gambit, and Rogue. One's good, one's bad. Originally he was a bad guy pretending to be good but then he would discover that maybe he liked being good more and he was torn one way or the other. Ultimately there would be a conflict between Gambit and his creator, his true self."

Link
Probably not a good idea. As a side note, Nightcrawler was pretty much the creation of X-Men artist Dave Cockrum:

Trying to keep our minds off the storm raging overhead, we occupied our time making up comic book characters. Frankly, I don't remember most of them. Probably they weren't too teriffic. But there was one pair of characters I remember well--the Intruder, and his demon sidekick, Nightcrawler.

The Intruder was a character like Batman or the Punisher, who relied on strength, intelligence and weaponry to combat crime. Nightcrawler was a demon--yeah, a real one--who had screwed up on a mission from Hell, and rather than go back and face punishment, he stayed on the mortal plane and hung around with the Intruder.

This Nightcrawler wasn't a nice guy. He was nasty, vicious and animalistic. He ran up and down the sides of buildigs, and bayed at the moon like the Hound of the Baskervilles. He came and went in bursts of flame and brimstone--I kept that part, later on--and he had a prehensile tail. He was a very frightening character.

Sometime before I got out of the Navy and became a comics pro, the late and legendary Jack Kirby came up with a character called simply, 'The Demon'. His demon was named Etrigan, who was tied into the Merlin legend. Well, my idea was no longer unique, so I dropped the demon aspect.

In 1973, after working for a couple of years as a background inker and assistant to several other artists, most notibly Murphy Anderson, I got a chance to draw the Legion of Superheroes. After working on it awhile, I decided I'd like to introduce a character of my own into the group. I came up with four possibilities, one of them Nightcrawler.

The Legion nightcrawler was no longer a demon, he was an alien. His name was Balshazaar. He came from another dimension, and his people were the source of lEarth's legends and mythology about demons. He kept most of the original demon's characteristics, though he wasn't quite as nasty as the original Nightcrawler. He also gained the ability to disappear in shadows.

Nightcrawler didn't make it into the Legion. Murray Boltnoff, the editor, thught he was too funny-looking.

In 1975, when I got the chance to be in on the ground floor of re-starting the comatose series X-Men, I proposed several new characters, including Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus and Thunderbird. They all made the grade, though we killed Thunderbird two issues later.

Nightcrawler, as presented in the X-Men, was a gallant swashbuckler type. All the nastiness and animalistic qualities were left behind. Kurt reveled in his uniqueness. Blue is beautiful, was his philosophy. He was handsome, strong, and chivalrous to the ladies. In fact, he liked the ladies very much. And they liked him back.

Link (Apparently, not only is there a Nightcrawler-centric fan forum, Dave Cockrum used to post there)
So in an odd sense, Nightcrawler being a demon isn't totally ridiculous...but neither would him being an alien either.

On an either further side note, that demon story was a retcon by Chuck Austen, whose entire mainstream comic book career was a fiasco:

He originally was an indie comic writer known for his porn comic Strips, which seems like a weird fit for a superhero comic. He wrote some of the greatest "So bad they're good" comics I've ever read, like War Machine Max 2.0:

Or, one of my favorites, the Mangaverse Ghost Riders oneshot:

I'm way out of the loop on how fucking weird the capeshit writers of yesteryear were, would you mind spilling more dirt on how this industry was always infested with lunatics?

Where to start? William Marston, creator of Wonder Woman, was a legendary pervert. Then you have Steve Ditko and his weird politisperging, and John Byrne and Mark Waid being autistic even for comic writers.

 

[RX-78]

Chris Claremont made it really obvious that he had fetishes for corruption, mind control, and bondage.

He also liked making everyone bi, which gets him points with SJWs...but he also had a thing for racebending, like Psylocke being turned from British to Asian, or two side characters in New Mutants being Cherokeefied. He also likes making trolling statements like this:

Link
As for other rejected ideas he had? The X-Men villain Mister Sinister would have turned out to be the alter-ego of a psychic child.

Link
I actually think it's a pretty interesting concept for a villain. But he also planned for Gambit to be another Mister Sinister alter ego...
Link
Probably not a good idea. As a side note, Nightcrawler was pretty much the creation of X-Men artist Dave Cockrum:
Link (Apparently, not only is there a Nightcrawler-centric fan forum, Dave Cockrum used to post there)
So in an odd sense, Nightcrawler being a demon isn't totally ridiculous...but neither would him being an alien either.

On an either further side note, that demon story was a retcon by Chuck Austen, whose entire mainstream comic book career was a fiasco:

He originally was an indie comic writer known for his porn comic Strips, which seems like a weird fit for a superhero comic. He wrote some of the greatest "So bad they're good" comics I've ever read, like War Machine Max 2.0:

Or, one of my favorites, the Mangaverse Ghost Riders oneshot:

Where to start? William Marston, creator of Wonder Woman, was a legendary pervert. Then you have Steve Ditko and his weird politisperging, and John Byrne and Mark Waid being autistic even for comic writers.

I have no fuckin' clue how to untie that gordian knot of autism and unprofessionalism, but I'll try:

>He also liked making everyone bi, which gets him points with SJWs
That's a common misconception, faggots hate bisexuals for not being big enough faggots. This used to be much worse during the tumblr era when pansexuality was the current fad, but it would still sink claremont. The guy sounds like he has legitimate coomer brain and has to shove his fetishes into material meant for kids, which the editors at the time were either ok with or too retarded to notice.

>Nightcrawler is half-something
Is being a mutant just not cool enough any more with all the Z-list x-men marvel shits out like Maggot? I'm dead certain that the comic is already too convoluted to ever need to include christian demons into the mix.

Mr Sinister being an edgy psychic's OC insert would explain his dumb name, but why does he look like an improperly colored Colossus wearing streamers? I've heard of wonder woman's creator being deep into bondage and that's why she gets the rope and I'm vaguely aware of of john byrne turning into a cow around the time he started working on superman, but I'm oblivious to who the others even are.

 

[Terrifik]

And goodness knows a Catholic mutant with an unnatural appearance who owns it and refuses to let it define him must be outraging their remaining audience.
Though given how long it is by now that I read the up to date stuff I assume he's identifying as an atheist.

Question also did they Ritcon colossus being Russia gay or he just bisexual.