I don't mean to come off as offensive, even on this board. I myself had to suffer through a couple decades off bullshit before the doctors suspected I had ADHD and dyscalculia. I'm just curious with how much overlap there is between these diagnoses, especially when the doctors are happy to ignore certain symptoms over others.
I don't mean to come off as offensive, even on this board. I myself had to suffer through a couple decades off bullshit before the doctors suspected I had ADHD and dyscalculia. I'm just curious with how much overlap there is between these diagnoses, especially when the doctors are happy to ignore certain symptoms over others.
Nothing offensive about questions (well besides questions with underlying ulterior motives...anyway).
Observational, there are huge overlaps; diagnostically is different story, due to having to document everything, especially when restricted drugs come into play.
Then there is the 'I know everything but don't want to come up to speed on new developments' professionals, or the 'I don't want to be known as the doctor that gives out drugs' professionals, just to name a few.
There are still way to many doctors getting away with doing as they please, accountable to no one. They are so used to being the 'one who must be obeyed', that as technology has advanced, their egos haven't allowed them to admit they don't know everything.
So yes, there are a plethora of adults out there that have been fobbed off their whole lives. Many unfortunately have found their own ways to self-medicate, and when approaching doctors, they (the doctors) refuse to consider underlying causes of the self-medication, and just write them down as drug seeking.
To answer your actual question:
ASD diagnosis has a tendency towards internal, whereas ADHD is external, which is why it's 'mistakenly' called a behavioural disorder.
...individuals with autism spectrum disorder often have intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder), and many children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) also have a specific learning disorder.
Autism spectrum disorder is characterized by persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, including deficits in social reciprocity, nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, and skills in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships. In addition to the social communication deficits, the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder requires the presence of restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities.
Asperger’s disorder would now receive a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder without language or intellectual impairment.
ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder defined by impairing levels of inattention, disorganization, and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity. Inattention and disorganization entail inability to stay on task, seeming not to listen, and losing materials, at levels that are inconsistent with age or developmental level. Hyperactivity-impulsivity entails overactivity, fidgeting, inability to stay seated, intruding into other people’s activities, and inability to wait—symptoms that are excessive for age or developmental level. In childhood, ADHD frequently overlaps with disorders that are often considered to be “externalizing disorders,” such as oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder. ADHD often persists into adulthood, with resultant impairments of social, academic and occupational functioning.
Unless professionals have a specific interest in the field, a quick read of those paragraphs would only highlight the words they already know, ASD = nonverbal, repetitive patterns. ADHD = hyperactivity-impulsivity, externalizing disorders.
The paragraphs in the spoiler, they are in the opening chapter of the Neurodevelopmental Disorder section. I can easily see that being the only part that is read as it's a quick summary of the more common disorders within the chapter.
The diagnostic criteria itself, a quick run down using key words.
ASD - there are five sections to be met; a and b, each have 3 or 4 sub sections, which I have condensed into one sentence. a. Deficits in social-emotional, nonverbal communicative behaviours, developing, maintaining, understanding relationships. b. Restrictive, repetitive patterns of behaviour, motor movements, sameness, inflexible adherence, fixated, hyper or hypo to sensory input or aspects. c. Present in early development. d. Cause clinically significant impairment. e. Not better explained by intellectual disability/global developmental delay.
Then they have to specify the above into severity to meet either Level 1, 2, 3. Level 1 being what Aspergers used to be, Level 3 being 24/7 help needed (those two examples are extremes).
ADHD - there are five sections to be met; a and b, each have 3 or 4 sub sections, which I have condensed into one sentence. a. 1. Inattention - six or more symptoms persisting for at least 6 months. Lack attention, careless at school, work, other activities; lack attention tasks, lack focus in lectures, conversations; lack of listening; doesn't follow instruction, fails to finish; lack organisation, messy; avoidance; loses things; easily distracted; forgetful. a. 2. Hyperactivity and impulsivity - six or more symptoms persisting for at least 6 months. Fidgets, taps, squims; gets up often; runs about, climbs where inappropriate; unable to play, engage quietly; 'on the go'; talk excessively; blurts out answers before questions are finished; can't wait their turn; interrupts, intrudes. b. Several of either above present prior to age 12. c. Several of either present in two or more settings. d. Clear evidence of impact. e. Symptoms do not occur while having impacts of other psychotic disorders; are not better explained by another mental disorder (anxiety, bipolar, mood, etc.)
Then specified into 1 inattentive, 2 hyperactive, or 1&2 combined, and also within each of mild, moderate, severe. There is also a partial remission specification.
There is also in the 'Diagnostic Features' section a sentence that states: 'recall of childhood symptoms tends to be unreliable'. Obviously for adults seeking diagnosis finding proof may be difficult.
In both there are then all the comorbids, of which each is in the other list.
There is also a guidebook that is put out by the APA, it expands each criteria. Interestingly enough, it also talks about ADHD diagnosis for children being changed to 5-17 years 'brings ADHD criteria into harmony with the revised criteria for autism spectrum disorder.'
So you can see where the ASD internal, ADHD external, assumptions come from.
I was searching google to find out if people armchair diagnosed Linus Torvalds as aspie or not and I came across this bizarre page. http://stopnerds.github.io/autism/ It's clearly a parody but I have no idea what the point of the page is. Maybe I'm dense. The quiz is funny tho http://stopnerds.github.io/nerd-test/
This is Jimmy.
Jimmy considers himself a normal kid. He has friends which he prefers to socialize with using social media such as Instagram, WhatsApp and Snapchat.
Sometimes he'll spend up to 18 hours a day surfing the web. And in the rare occasion that he isn't surfing the web, he'll watch anime or play Minecraft.
Jimmy identifies himself as a libertarian, and he often spends time advocating libertarian candidates such as Gary Johnson for president.
Jimmy finds he prefers open source software because he thinks it is better developed and safer.
Last month, Jimmy switched to Linux and took up a new hobby: programming and web development. He enjoys this very much.
Jimmy publishes his software under an open-source license on a code-sharing website. On occasion, he will contribute to his online friend's open source project on GitHub.
Does Jimmy sound a bit like you?
Does Jimmy sound a bit like you? You see, Jimmy isn't mentally healthy. And if he sounds anything like you, you're most likely ill too. While Jimmy's doings may seem innocent, he isn't very productive at all. He might spend up to two days fixing his WLAN or a week upgrading his Linux distribution. Jimmy doesn't realize it, but his mental well-being is declining rapidly as he becomes more and more obsessed with the foolish concept of "open source" software. Jimmy has a girlfriend; her name is Sakura Haruno and she has pink hair and green eyes. And while it might not sound like it, Jimmy is still a virgin. Why? Because Sakura is an anime character. Chances are that although you might not share Jimmy's exact story, you are just as sick and things are going to get much, much worse if you don't act now. However, it's not too late. There is still hope.Does Jimmy sound a bit like you? You see, Jimmy isn't mentally healthy. And if he sounds anything like you, you're most likely ill too. While Jimmy's doings may seem innocent, he isn't very productive at all. He might spend up to two days fixing his WLAN or a week upgrading his Linux distribution. Jimmy doesn't realize it, but his mental well-being is declining rapidly as he becomes more and more obsessed with the foolish concept of "open source" software. Jimmy has a girlfriend; her name is Sakura Haruno and she has pink hair and green eyes. And while it might not sound like it, Jimmy is still a virgin. Why? Because Sakura is an anime character. Chances are that although you might not share Jimmy's exact story, you are just as sick and things are going to get much, much worse if you don't act now. However, it's not too late. There is still hope.
What can you do?
First of all, don't panic. Taking rushed decisions will not help you—it's more likely to make your life worse. When you have thought over your mental health status and decided to take action, see a psychologist. He can identify mental illnesses such as Asperger's syndrome, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.
If you are a libertarian, stop advocating libertarian candidates such as Gary Johnson and vote Hillary 2016.
Abandoning Minecraft is the next step, and probably the most important. If you have issues stopping, try seeking out group therapy.
Linux and open source software are the next factors to get rid of. The solution is simple: buy a Mac. Be sure to ignore FSF propaganda such as "Mac is for faggots"; this is FUD, pure and simple.
To stop watching anime is the hardest step and probably the most painful. StopNerds.org recommends that watching mentally healthy cartoons such as Kim Possible and South Park is the best and easiest way to counter any urge to watch sicko Japanese cartoons.
If you've successfully followed every step above, congratulations! Remember to revisit your psychologist to make sure that the mental illness has disappeared.
What happened to Jimmy?
Jimmy was able to overcome his mental illness. He has had three relationships with real women within two weeks.
Jimmy's support for Gary Johnson has ceased. He now holds sensible political opinions and votes for non-libertarian candidates only.
Since he is no longer tied to his computer, Jimmy has become a successful politician himself. He advocates long-term improvement of mental health in the US.
you should read Nozick and become enlightened as to why minarchy is the most moral and most justified system of government
as a bonus, Nozick is a serious philosopher and very good at picking apart arguments
Converging evidence from a number of case-control studies indicates that certain personality traits and social behaviors are observed more commonly among autism relatives than control relatives of individuals with Down syndrome [Piven et al., 1990; Bolton et al., 1994; Le et al., 1996; Piven et al., 1997; Murphy et al., 2000; Pickles et al., 2000; Szatmari et al., 2000; Lainhart et al., 2002] Both family history and direct assessment studies have reported elevated rates of socially reticent, or aloof personalities among autism parents, as well as untactful behavior, and fewer high quality (i.e., emotionally reciprocal) friendships. Autism relatives have also been reported to more commonly display rigid personalities, showing relatively little interest in novelty or difficulty in adjusting to change in environment and activities, as well as perfectionistic or overly conscientious, detail-oriented traits. Finally, anxiety-related features (e.g., anxious and hypersensitive personalities, increased rates of anxiety disorders, and elevated scores on the neuroticism/anxiety-fearfulness domain of the NEO-PI) also appear more common among parents of individuals with autism [Bolton et al., 1994; Le et al., 1996; Piven et al., 1997; Murphy et al., 2000; Pickles et al., 2000; Micali et al., 2004]. These characteristics closely correspond to the social impairments, ritualistic/repetitive, and anxious behaviors observed in autism, making them good candidates as autism intermediate phenotypes. The present study examined these features using direct assessment with the Modified Personality Assessment Schedule, Revised and the Friendship Interview, and self-report with the NEO Personality Inventory [Costa and McCrae, 1995].
Impaired language is a defining feature of autism. Family studies examining parents and relatives of individuals with autism have detected increased rates of developmental language-related delays [Folstein and Rutter, 1977; August et al., 1981; Steffenburg et al., 1989; Szatmari et al., 2000], impaired pragmatic language use [Landa et al., 1991, 1992; Piven et al., 1997], and difficulties on standardized tests of verbal fluency and reading [Smalley and Asarnow, 1990; Piven et al., 1997, though see Bishop and Norbury, 2002; Folstein et al., 1999; Hughes et al., 1999; Pilowsky et al., 2003]. Recent findings from genetic linkage analyses also point toward language impairment as a genetically significant feature of autism.
